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Who Gets Left Behind? How end times theories shape the ways we view our earthly abode
Christianity Today ^ | May 23, 2011 | Matthew Dickerson

Posted on 05/24/2011 7:39:20 AM PDT by Bed_Zeppelin

I travel from time to time. Unfortunately, this requires sleeping in hotel rooms. My last hotel stay had me pondering the differences between a hotel room and my own home. The "hospitality" industry specializes in the sterile and generic. I can hope for little more than clean sheets, hot water, and maybe a coffee machine. Even luxury hotels, despite elegant fixtures and expensive amenities, are designed for standardized guests. Any art on the walls is mass-produced.

One hotel room is the same as another. But my house, with all its quirks, is a home: a long-term habitat, a place of relationships and authentic hospitality. I don't feel like a guest. Indeed, even my guests shouldn't feel like guests, but like family.

(Excerpt) Read more at christianitytoday.com ...


TOPICS: Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: culture; rapture; theology

1 posted on 05/24/2011 7:39:25 AM PDT by Bed_Zeppelin
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To: Bed_Zeppelin
Heaven is not my home. I'm just camping out there until the Resurrection.
2 posted on 05/24/2011 7:50:02 AM PDT by it_rr (but the caravan moves along)
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To: Bed_Zeppelin

Since the Rapture theory has only been around since the 1830s I would say no one is left behind.


3 posted on 05/24/2011 7:55:32 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Bed_Zeppelin

“Our answer is shaped in part by our eschatology.”

That is correct. While the word “Rapture” is never used in the Bible and the theory itself didn’t come into being until the late 1800s, it is still right there in scripture.

“Its formulation came about by means of inductive reasoning. Certain biblical passages concerning the Second Coming, and the role Christians will play in that event, were blended together inductively to establish the teaching.”


4 posted on 05/24/2011 8:16:39 AM PDT by sigzero
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To: Jack Hydrazine

I would say that you need to read your Bible, if you’ve got one.


5 posted on 05/24/2011 9:39:04 AM PDT by Scotsman will be Free (11C - Indirect fire, infantry - High angle hell - We will bring you, FIRE)
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To: Scotsman will be Free

Tanach (Jewish Bible) in hand. Hmmm....nope, nothing in there!


6 posted on 05/24/2011 9:45:39 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: sigzero

So why didn’t Christians in previous generations come up with it?


7 posted on 05/24/2011 9:50:29 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

What was the point of Paul’s Second Epistle to the Thessaloniacans?


8 posted on 05/24/2011 10:06:20 AM PDT by raygun
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To: raygun

I have no idea, but I don’t think it was to tell Christians to fly away in their beautiful balloons.


9 posted on 05/24/2011 10:10:19 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Jack Hydrazine; Bed_Zeppelin
Since the Rapture theory has only been around since the 1830s I would say no one is left behind.

Many think that to be true,
as amillennialism is the position of the
Roman "church".

However Justin Martyr (died 165CE), had
chiliastic tendencies in his theology.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
10 posted on 05/24/2011 10:17:51 AM PDT by Uriel-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: Uri’el-2012

Just because he was chiliastic doesn’t mean he believed he or any other Christian would fly, fly away.

If you study the Torah from a Jewish perspective God teaches that we are in this world to be involved in trying to improve it starting with ourselves, not to flee or float or disappear to some other world or place. We are to engage this world and fill it with the light of HaShem.

I could easily believe that “Oh, things are getting to difficult. Time to take a time out and run away!”

I would have to say that the Rapture Theory is just an escapist belief contrary to what God wants Jews and Christians to do in this world - engage it, change it, and make it better.

I think the Rapture started back in the early 1960s when Jews started coming back to Torah both here in the USA and in the former Soviet Union.


11 posted on 05/24/2011 10:30:16 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

***So why didn’t Christians in previous generations come up with it?***

The bobby pin, the steam locomotive, and electric lights have been around for thousands of years. But we just recently discovered them. Why was that? Think it out.


12 posted on 05/24/2011 10:35:36 AM PDT by imardmd1
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To: imardmd1

The word, “rapture” comes from the Greek, “harpatzo” and, “rapto” in Latin. What is the context of those words in the Christian’s New Testament? Does it mean to fly away, disappear, go to another world or something else? What did it mean to people before 1830?


13 posted on 05/24/2011 10:40:24 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

The answer is in why Paul wrote his second epistle to the Thessaloniacans.


14 posted on 05/24/2011 10:52:45 AM PDT by raygun
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To: raygun
"What was the point of Paul’s Second Epistle to the Thessaloniacans?"

THIS

15 posted on 05/24/2011 10:54:35 AM PDT by Matchett-PI ("I've studied prophecy 30 years" usually means "I have everything Hal Lindsay ever 'wrote'." ~ LNF)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

You got me. However, the farther from the start we get the more we seem to want to categorize things about the Bible (rapture, pre/post trib, dispensational/non-dispensational).


16 posted on 05/24/2011 11:37:25 AM PDT by sigzero
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To: Jack Hydrazine

So evil just remains on the planet?

Jesus does not seperate the Wheat from the Tares?

GOD spared Noah and his family by having him build an ark.

Since GOD said he would not destroy the earth with water again, but he will destroy the earth with fire, then how would GOD save his flock from a burning earth and heavens?

GOD has to remove his believers from the earth, if he intends to judge the entire planet, if GOD only plans on judging a few nations not all of them, then maybe he will tell his believers to move to Steamboat Springs Colorado.


17 posted on 05/24/2011 11:43:36 AM PDT by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

You didn’t think it out. Maybe it was because a statist sacral organization with another agenda, who attempted to suppress education and the Holy Scriptures from the ordinary person, who persecuted and killed as many truly saved believers as it could find, and burned their Bibles — maybe that “church” succeeded in blinding the general public from all kinds of Truth (even from its incompletely “reformed” children), for well over a thousand years. Maybe that is why God’s plan in end-times eschatology for the true-believers-in-the-Christ-of-the-Bible remained hidden until the Age of Grace was about to come to a close. But it was there all along, not discovered by humans who simply cannot receive the (deep) things of the Holy Spirit, for it was foolishness to them. And still is. But it was initially blindingly clear to the original apostles, and was included in their records. It is spiritually discerned.


18 posted on 05/24/2011 11:44:24 AM PDT by imardmd1
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To: Jack Hydrazine
Neither 'rapture' in English, nor the Greek harpatzo can be found in Scripture, so I'm unclear what bearing the oontext of that word would have concerning the doctrine of the rapture.

However, the Greek words pertaining to Christ's second advent, parousia (#3952), apokalupsis (#602), and epiphaneia (#2014) are.

Without denial of dispensational or covenant theology, and distinction between Israel and the church - rejection of replacement theology - and the Present Age to preceeding ages, the divine purpose of the the Present Age, its character, and prophecies related to its course (including its foretold end), those words are foundational to the doctrine of the translation of the church in accordance with that intimated by the Holy Spirit in Jno 14:1-3; II Ths 2:1; I Ths 4:13-18; I Cor 1:8; 15:51,52; Phi 3:20,21; II Cor 5:1-9

19 posted on 05/24/2011 11:46:03 AM PDT by raygun
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To: raygun

It seems to me the Christian Rapture is very much like a product recall by the Feds. (I say this half-serious and half-tongue in cheek.)

How so?

God wants us to engage this world to improve it in a Godly way. At some point the Christians stop doing this because the Left has rendered it impotent. As you can see today Leftism continues its march unabated especially in this country.

As the Left continues to destroy the world and the Christians stand by on the sidelines it gets soooooooooooo bad that God decides to get the do-nothing Christians out of the way by rapturing them all to Cloud 9, a parallel universe, another dimension, or another planet, or a place in between universes.

The rest of the God fearers slog it out with the Left with the God fearers eventually win.

Aside from all of that I think the rapture is like global warming. It happens every moment of every day without end because there people are going to heaven all the time after they take their last breath.


20 posted on 05/24/2011 11:53:05 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: sigzero

The farther we get away from the source the more distortions occur.


21 posted on 05/24/2011 11:53:53 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

Keep reading.


22 posted on 05/24/2011 12:06:40 PM PDT by Scotsman will be Free (11C - Indirect fire, infantry - High angle hell - We will bring you, FIRE)
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To: it_ürür

Well we could all join the “end times” green religion of Al Gore


23 posted on 05/24/2011 1:54:48 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: Jack Hydrazine

If I understand correctly, you’re Jewish. As such the issue of the Rapture is a moot point for you.


24 posted on 05/24/2011 2:07:58 PM PDT by raygun
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To: raygun

I still like to ask questions.


25 posted on 05/24/2011 2:36:53 PM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Bed_Zeppelin
I am currently reading this book. A much different story than Camping's

BTW, this book was written in 1881; you wouldn't believe how accurate it is!

The End of the Present World
 
Reading this book was one of the greatest graces of my life!"
— St. Thérèse of Lisieux

In the late nineteenth century, Father Charles Arminjon, a priest from the mountains of southeastern France, assembled his flock in the town cathedral to preach a series of conferences to help them turn their thoughts away from this life’s mean material affairs—and toward the next life’s glorious spiritual reward. His wise and uncompromising words deepened in them the spirit of recollection that all Christians must have: the abiding conviction that heavenly aims, not temporal enthusiasms, must guide everything we think, say, and do.

When Father Arminjon’s conferences were later published in a book, many others were able to reap the same benefit—including fourteen-year-old Thérèse Martin, then on the cusp of entering the Carmelite convent in Lisieux. Reading it, she says, “plunged my soul into a happiness not of this earth.” Young Thérèse, filled with a sense of “what God reserves for those who love him, and seeing that the eternal rewards had no proportion to the light sacrifices of life,” copied out numerous passages and memorized them, “repeating unceasingly the words of love burning in my heart.”

Now the very book that so inspired the Little Flower is available for the first time in English.

Let the pages of The End of the Present World and the Mysteries of the Future Life fill you with the same burning words of love, with the same ardent desire to know God above all created things, that St. Thérèse gained from them. Let them also enrich your understanding of certain teachings of the Faith that can often seem so mysterious, even frightening:

  • The signs that will precede the world’s end
  • The coming of the Antichrist, and how to recognize him
  • The Judgment and where it may send us: heaven, hell, and purgatory
  • Biblical end-times prophecy: how to read it and not be deceived

    Jesus commands us to be ever-watchful for his return, and ever-mindful that we have no lasting city on earth. The End of the Present World and the Mysteries of the Future Life is an invaluable aid to inculcating in your spirit that heavenly orientation, without which true human happiness cannot be found—in this world or the next.


26 posted on 05/24/2011 2:50:09 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

Roger that.

While the Rapture may be moot to you and your kin, the issue of eschatology concerning the nation of Israel is not.

The reason that we can’t talk about the Rapture is that it is something reserved for the Church, which Jews are not members of. The Church is a mystery not fully revealed in the Torah.


27 posted on 05/24/2011 2:51:47 PM PDT by raygun
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To: Jack Hydrazine
To answer your question with respect to people's attitudes pre-circa 1830 concerning the Rapture directly - as if this is merely a recent invention - Paul wrote the 2nd Epistle to the Thesselonials to address some serious concerns they had as a result of a great misunderstanding on their part.

Because of the church in Thessalonica's great persecution, they assumed - wrongfully - that they were living through the Tribulation, i.e., the 70th week prophecied by Daniel. As such, they believed that they had missed the Day of the Lord, i.e., the Rapture. The prevailing sentiment was: "Woe be us. What the heck happen? Oh, man we're doomed!"

28 posted on 05/24/2011 3:02:06 PM PDT by raygun
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To: Jack Hydrazine

For some things I would agree.


29 posted on 05/24/2011 3:04:13 PM PDT by sigzero
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To: raygun
While the Rapture may be moot to you and your kin, the issue of eschatology concerning the nation of Israel is not.

The reason that we can’t talk about the Rapture is that it is something reserved for the Church, which Jews are not members of. The Church is a mystery not fully revealed in the Torah.

Is that why the Koine Greek word Ekklesia(church)
is used in the following verses ?
See Deut. 4:10; 9:10; 18:16; 31:30; Jos. 9:2; 1 Ki. 8:22; 1 Chr. 28:2, 8; 29:10; 2 Chr. 6:12f; 28:14; 29:23; 30:4, 17; Ezr. 10:8; Neh. 8:2; Jdt. 6:21; 7:29; 1 Ma. 14:19; Ps. 21:23; Prov. 5:14; Sir. 15:5; 33:19; 46:7; 50:13

NAU Deuteronomy 4:10
"Remember the day you stood before YHvH
your God at Horeb, when YHvH said to me,
'Assemble the people to Me,
that I may let them hear My words
so they may learn to fear Me
all the days they live on the earth,
and that they may teach their children.'
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
30 posted on 05/24/2011 3:06:27 PM PDT by Uriel-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: Salvation
I've seen this book recommended on the site Spirit Daily. Thanks for the reminder!
31 posted on 05/24/2011 3:18:26 PM PDT by Bed_Zeppelin
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To: Jack Hydrazine
"Just because he was chiliastic doesn’t mean he believed he or any other Christian would fly, fly away."


I think that many early Christians and Jews had a different understanding of terms like "rapture", "revelation" and "apocalypse". They often referred to an existential experience where an individual encountered the transcendent majesty of a holy God. This experience is not confined to the "last days" and not necessarily understood primarily in a physical sense. Too many modern interpretations apply them solely to the last days, expect the experience to be manifested primarily in a tangible, physical manner and treat them as historical predictions.
32 posted on 05/24/2011 3:31:36 PM PDT by rob777
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To: Uri’el-2012
The Septuagint is corrupt; stick with the original Hebrew.

Here's how I read Deu 4:10:

Specially the day yowm that thou stoodest `amad before paniym the LORD Y@hovah thy God 'elohiym in Horeb, Choreb when the LORD Y@hovah said 'amar unto me, Gather qahal me the people `am together, qahal and I will make them hear shama` my words, dabar that they may learn lamad to fear yare' me all the days yowm that they shall live chay upon the earth, 'adamah and that they may teach lamad their children. ben

33 posted on 05/24/2011 3:44:44 PM PDT by raygun
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To: raygun
The Septuagint is corrupt; stick with the original Hebrew.

So do I hear you saying that the LXX is of the Evil One ?

Yah'shua quoted from it. No ?

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
34 posted on 05/24/2011 4:05:10 PM PDT by Uriel-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: rob777

But we are looking at the Christian Rapture in regards to the Church’s persecution at some historical time. The early Church was persecuted by the Romans quite severely and no Rapture. They are persecuted today pretty harshly in Third World nations and still no Rapture.

A 1000 year reign of a world government run by a dead rabbi (Rabbi Joshua aka Jesus) in no way means that the followers of that rabbi are going to be taken by transcendental meditation or physically whisked away because of a recent (in the last 150 years) interpretation of some text of an opinion written by a follower of that rabbi. Just because you name it and claim it or blab it and grab it doesn’t mean its the truth.

God makes it pretty clear in the Torah is that He wants us to involved in making this world better. To do so requires us being here in the physical on planet Earth. Anything that contradicts that requires more scrutiny.


35 posted on 05/24/2011 4:06:29 PM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Jack Hydrazine
"God makes it pretty clear in the Torah is that He wants us to involved in making this world better. To do so requires us being here in the physical on planet Earth. Anything that contradicts that requires more scrutiny."


Precisely, that is why the older notion of rapture as a inner experience caught my attention. It does not require the person being raptured to be removed from the earth physically. I think that there are some realities, which are very difficult to covey in human language. The end times and coming of God's Kingdom is such a reality. In acknowledging that I shy away from definite interpretations of apocalyptic Biblical writings.
36 posted on 05/24/2011 4:19:57 PM PDT by rob777
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To: Uri’el-2012
According to Vine ekklhsia is used in the Septuagint to designate the "gathering" of Israel, summoned for any definite purpose, or a "gathering" regarded as a representative of the whole nation.

The explicit corollary in Hebrew to 'church' would be: מוער אחל

However, the connotations are entirely different, i.e., The word church is an English-language word translated from the original Greek ekklesia which means "called-out-ones". Old Testament Israel was usually called by the term "congregation." In some respects the word congregation is synonymous with the word church. Yet there is a distinct difference between the terms church and congregation. The congregation of Israel was separate, as a separate nation. But they were not called-out-ones spiritually in the same sense that characterizes the New Testament Church.

Seven annual festivals were given to Old Testament Israel and were ordained forever. Their true meaning had long remained a hidden mystery. They picture God's plan of redemption--the divine plan by which God is reproducing himself. The Passover pictures the death of Christ in payment for the penalty of human sin repented of. The seven days of the Festival of Unleavened Bread picture the Church coming out of sin, even as Israel came out of Egypt. The Day of Pentecost, originally called Feast of Firstfruits, pictures the Church as the first to be begotten and born as children of God during the Church age. The Feast of Trumpets pictures the Second Coming of Christ to take over earth's throne and to rule all nations. The Day of Atonement pictures the putting away of Satan. The Feast of Tabernacles pictures the thousand-year reign under the rule of Christ and the born children of God. The Final Great Day pictured the final judgment.

37 posted on 05/24/2011 5:00:48 PM PDT by raygun
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To: Uri’el-2012
Its corrupted, draw what conclusions to that you will.

Around A.D. 90, a group of Jewish rabbis gathered at Jamnia in western Judea to discuss the established canon. Testing for books that “defile the hands” (i.e., were prophetically inspired), they debated including certain apocryphal books and removing some disputed books. However, the conclusion was that only the books that comprised the Hebrew Bible were the inspired, canonical books (Bruce, pp. 34-36; McDowell and Wilson, 1993, p. 37). These books which were stamped with the "seal of approval" had been in wide use for centuries before, and in fact had been translated into Greek 200 years before these councils met. They in no sense "created" the Old Testament. And they completed their work two centuries before Constantine.

The fact behind the councils being convened was for the very purpose of dealing with the issue of flawed and false doctrines that were being promulgated at that time. This was becoming especially rampant with the emergence of Gnosticism and moreover, especially critical after the desctruction of the second temple. All the councils established was what the people had already been using for generations. They didn't affirm, but confirmed the canon of Hebrew Scripture.

The Septuagint is the name for the Greek translation of Hebrew first done in about 250 B.C. and significant perversion of text is evident when compared with readings of Talmudic or Masoretic texts. The 262 Greek copies of the New Testament which are not in agreement neither between themselves, or with the greater majority, are known as the Textus Receptus - Minor Text. The Minor Text originates predominantly in Alexadria, Egypt which was the Gnostic capital of the world.

Indeed while He may have cited it - given its popularity - He defined no doctrine upon it. The Apocrypha is also cited in the New Testament. When He reasoned doctrine from Scripture, He cited either the Pentatuch specifically, or more generally passages from the Tanakh, properly.

Josephus considered everything written after the time of Artaxerxes to be non-canonical, because prophetic messages had ceased. It is highly probable, since Josephus was a historian, that this was not his own idea, but reflected an earlier Jewish tradition (see Bruce, The Canon of Scripture (Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press), 1988, pp. 32-34). The most interesting evidence concerning the Hebrew canon comes from tractate Sanhedrin: “The rabbis taught: Since the death of the last prophets, Haggai, Zechariah, and Malachi, the Holy Spirit has left Israel…” (Rodkinson VII/VIII:24). Thus, Jewish oral tradition held that Malachi was the last inspired book of the Old Testament.

"There are a vast number of false and spurious writings that deserve mention at this point; not because anyone would seriously contend for their authority, but because they do represent the religious lore of the Hebrews in the inter-testamental period. The New Testament writers make use of a number of these books… Of course, it should be remembered that the New Testament also quotes from the heathen poets Aratus (Acts 17:28); Menander (1 Cor.15:33); and Epimenides (Titus 1:12). Truth is truth no matter where it is found, whether uttered by a heathen poet, a pagan prophet (Num 24:17), or even a dumb animal (22:28). Nevertheless, it should be noted that no such formula as “it is written” or “the Scriptures say” is connected with these citations. It should also be noted that neither the New Testament writers nor the Fathers have considered these writings canonical" - (Geisler, Norman L. and William E. Nix (1986), A General Introduction to the Bible (Chicago, IL: Moody),p. 262, emp. added)."

38 posted on 05/24/2011 5:25:49 PM PDT by raygun
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To: raygun
The congregation of Israel was separate, as a separate nation. But they were not called-out-ones spiritually in the same sense that characterizes the New Testament Church.

How do you know that ?

Do you know the mind of YHvH ?

I think not !

Pentecost is not the feast of First Fruits.
Yom HaBikkurim is beginning of the counting of the Omer,
where the finest is offered to YHvH.

It occurs on the day following the Shabbat following Pesach.

OBTW you missed the Feast of Hag HaMatzot where all the leaven(sin) is removed.

Strong's H6950 - qahal
קָהַל
Transliteration
qahal
Pronunciation
'kä·hal' (Key)
Part of Speech
verb


Root Word (Etymology)
A primitive root
TWOT Reference
1991
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) to assemble, gather
a) (Niphal) to assemble
1) for religious reasons
2) for political reasons
b) (Hiphil) to summon an assembly
1) for war, judgment
2) for religious purposes

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
39 posted on 05/24/2011 5:33:37 PM PDT by Uriel-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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