Posted on 05/27/2011 1:03:35 PM PDT by topcat54
I was agreeing with you...While Jesus will ultimately rule with a rod of iron and put all nations under his feet, it isn't happening now and didn't happen in 70 A.D...
Sorry I wasn't more clear...
I read in an article recently that it's the resurrection of Old Testament - 1st Century Jewish legalism being re-created in the Church.
Weird.
You have a reference?
Christ is the head of the Church. She will prevail because He has been given all authority in heaven and on earth.
How much scripture must they destroy to come up with Preterism fallacy???
Clearly not nearly to the same degree as the modern Dispensationalist who in their teachings proves a hatred of the Church and Doctrines of Redemption.
(It doesn't help your agenda when you have to lie to make your point - DeMar is not a full Preterist)
Lets look at your statement here:
"And Jesus will rule all nations with a rod of iron and put them under his feat (sic)..."
Here you insinuate something, but what is laughable is that you probably couldn't define "rule all nations with a rod of iron" in Biblical terms, rather you must eisegete your own personal values, mores and corrupted feelings into picturing in your mind what that means - then you judge another person based on the vanity of your own imagination.
Seriously, are you saying that for God to rule with a "rod of iron" there can't be any sin in His presence? Since the wages of sin is death (Ro 6:23) everyone would be instantly dead under a no-sin rule. If you say only certain sins will result in a beat down, then "rod of iron" simply means baseball bat to you and that God isn't Holy since He winks at some sin and goes postal on others. I don't see how you can apply legalistic explanations without blaspheming God or killing everyone in a nanosecond
"How then do we explain Iran and Afghanistan, or Sudan, or the U.S.A. for that matter???"
It seems that you don't understand the Gospel or even have any idea of who God is nor man's relationship to God else you wouldn't have made this statement with respect to the "rod of iron" claim. This is a common failing of the Dispensationalist - to ridicule and cheapen God, to belittle the Holy Spirit and elevate man in the same way Nimrod attempted to do. Did you know that there are Christians in all of those nations you listed? Do you feel that God had absolutely no control over who makes up those governments? (Rom 13:1; Jn 19:11; Ps 62:11)
Did you delete this passage from Revelation 1:5
"...and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth.
The passages you refer to are in Rv 2:27 (which references Ps 2), 12:5 and 19:15. In your allegiance to the sinfullness of Dispensationalism, you must deny that Jesus Christ is King (blasphemy) and that someday He will get a chance to temporarily rule over men (another blasphemy) because you say that for as long as Iran, Afghanistan, Sudan or the USA exists, then God must not be in control.
First, look at Rv 12:5
"She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne."
So why do you gratuitously delete the second phrase of this passage? Its in the past tense and it appears before Satan is cast out of Heaven and your Dispensational hermeneutic requires you to read Revelation in chronological order.
Revelation 19 is even more telling:
"Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God."
Isa 49:2, Eph 6:17 and Heb 4:12 says that the Word of God is the sword that proceeds from His mouth. Are you saying that the Gospel somehow hasn't been going out to all nations? No one is being saved? God doesn't appoint rulers? (Rom 13)
May I call your attention to Acts 4:23-31 and look closely at vv 25-26. Its quoting Ps 2:1-2 which is referenced in the Revelation. The Apostles, "filled with the Holy Spirit"(v31) believed and trusted completely in the fact that Jesus Christ was already reigning (vv 27-30) and requested (Ps 2:8) boldness and protection.
As anyone familiar with the Scriptures can plainly see, our LORD is presently reigning with a rod of iron. Based on your vanity and your standards God isn't and you call the Bible a lie because it doesn't fit your personal model. So what do you do? Trash the Bible and slander a man of God because he doesn't hold the Bible to the same level of contempt as the modern Dispensationalist.
Who again, is attempting to destroy Scripture?
Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Naw, the book of Revelation is future...And it says at that time, Jesus will be the Prince of the Kings of the Earth...
First, look at Rv 12:5
"She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne."
Rev 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
Right off the bat, we can see that the woman is not Mary...
Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Brought forth a man child who 'was to rule'...But he didn't, did he??? They killed him instead...
Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
So some time after Jesus goes to sit at the right hand of the Father, the woman flees into the wilderness for three and a half years...We know it's not Mary because she didn't flee into the wilderness after Jesus went to heaven...
Revelation 19 is even more telling:
"Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God."
Future, Future, Future...
Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Hey, when did all this happen??? HaHaHa...You know when this happens??? At the end of the Great Tribulation... AND THEN!!!
Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
Rev 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
May I call your attention to Acts 4:23-31 and look closely at vv 25-26. Its quoting Ps 2:1-2 which is referenced in the Revelation.
Yes it is...But it's ALL future...
As anyone familiar with the Scriptures can plainly see, our LORD is presently reigning with a rod of iron.
OK...Show us some evidence of that...Anything...
Based on your vanity and your standards God isn't and you call the Bible a lie because it doesn't fit your personal model. So what do you do? Trash the Bible and slander a man of God because he doesn't hold the Bible to the same level of contempt as the modern Dispensationalist.
I slandered someone??? You want to prove that???
Dispensational hermeneutic requires you to read Revelation in chronological order.
It's pretty apparent to me that you know nothing about Dispensational hermeneutic...
Naw, the book of Revelation is future...And it says at that time, Jesus will be the Prince of the Kings of the Earth...
You do realize that the Revelation was written in Koine Greek and not English so cherry picking your translation doesn't earn you a change in doctrine. I see that you are taking a 1611 "Prince" and applying a 2011 definition which is intellectually dishonest. Fortunately the word 'άρχων' doesn't change its meaning over the ages - and its modern equivalence is "chief" or "ruler over". Because you are making a point over "rule with a rod of iron over the nations" it is entirely appropriate to use "ruler" to communicate the point rather than try to obfuscate as this argument of yours attempts to do.
[Ref Rev 2:15] "Right off the bat, we can see that the woman is not Mary..."
True. Most commentators agree that this is The Church, yet the point is irrelevant because the "Child" is still the power of our LORD.
"Brought forth a man child who 'was to rule'...But he didn't, did he??? They killed him instead..."
News Flash! After three days He arose from the dead to conquer the last enemy death. (1 Co 15:26). But I still don't get your point, why the second distraction? According to whatever orthodox eschatology one subscribes to, the "Child" has the full power of God in heaven, and could be described as Divinely appointed rulers, or simply the power of the Gospel under the authority of God Himself to go out to grow and prosper. This is further Scriptural evidence that the Kingdom of God is now among us and despite the attacks by Satan, the Church still thrives and grows the "rod of iron" is likened to an unwavering power and history shows that even under oppression the Kingdom of God continues unwavered.
I don't see in your post your version of events except this unsubstantiated repeated claim that despite what the Word of God actually says, you claim it is all still Future. Building up straw-men and then knocking them down doesn't argue for your agenda.
Future, Future, Future...
Repeating a lie might be effective on you and your friend, but it doesn't replace the Truth. Romans 13:11; JJames 5:8-9; 1 Peter 4:7; Rev 1:3;22:6,10,12,20 all say that these things are "near", "at hand", "will happen shortly". Of course, Futurists know the future better than Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit and the Apostles and thus disregard all of these declarations and claim that thousands of years of time means "very soon" and thus will wrest Scripture in accordance to their own vanity and wisdom.
Hey, when did all this happen??? HaHaHa...You know when this happens??? At the end of the Great Tribulation... AND THEN!!!
The problem here is that you are stubbornly blinded to a defective template of Futurism and are incapable of letting the Scriptures speak, further proving the depth of the pervasive Truth of 1 Corinthians 2:14. For as long as you reject the Scriptures claims that these things will take place shortly, then the Bible will continue to be a closed book to you and these things will be elusive as the Gospel was to the Pharisees.
I slandered someone??? You want to prove that???
You called Gary DeMar a full Preterist; he is not. If you can't tell the difference in the variety of Preterism, may I suggest that you are way over your head in eschatological discussions and probably should sit on the sidelines until you become a bit more coherent.
It's pretty apparent to me that you know nothing about Dispensational hermeneutic...
Yeah right. You don't even know me, you don't know the first thing about the Gospel, the interpretation of it nor are there any signs that you know proper hermeneutics yet you feel perfectly capable of judging that which you are ignorant about. Typical Futurist arrogance.
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