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Author: LDS is 'dangerous religion' [Romney article]
Deseret News ^ | May 31, 2011 | Hal Boyd

Posted on 06/01/2011 10:06:48 AM PDT by Colofornian

click here to read article


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Comment #151 Removed by Moderator

To: NoGrayZone

Kid you are under the illusion you are important to me enough for me to “hate” you

I dont hate anyone kid...

as for you...

Im indifferent to you kid

You are not that important

I feel sorry for your dumb butt

Nothing you can say among those nasty comments can hurt me

Im accepted in the Beloved and that is something you cant touch with your destructive hands

Go and figure out what that means

Poor lost kid


152 posted on 06/01/2011 4:21:37 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: NoGrayZone; Tennessee Nana

Seriously, zone what examples of hate? T has not spewed hate, you on the other hand have spewed gobbly gook. Please include what you think is hate?


153 posted on 06/01/2011 4:23:45 PM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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Comment #154 Removed by Moderator

To: NoGrayZone
Most churches today to NOT follow the “Jesus said HE was THE way. That path is lit by the scriptures and the Holy Spirit.

Pretty big statement. IF you know that to be true - then your trying to find it is nonsense- since you know all.

155 posted on 06/01/2011 4:35:17 PM PDT by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: NoGrayZone
I disagree. It is you that keeps saying “hate”. I have seen no hate, I have only exposing of mormonISM.
I would think that you would either show the hate or retract the statement.
156 posted on 06/01/2011 4:38:47 PM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: Colofornian

“Or, pray tell, Tory, did you have something else in mind aside from polygamy? (Like maybe the age of the “brides” or something)”

Good point actually, about the age of the brides, considering that the leader of the FLDS was brought up on charges relating to this. Do you feel it is fair for the mainstream LDS, by association, to be tainted by this?


157 posted on 06/01/2011 4:42:36 PM PDT by Texan Tory
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To: Godzilla

I know nothing...except what the Bible tells me.


158 posted on 06/01/2011 4:43:53 PM PDT by NoGrayZone ("Islamophobia: The irrational fear of being beheaded.")
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To: NoGrayZone; Tennessee Nana; colorcountry; Colofornian; Elsie; svcw; Zakeet; aMorePerfectUnion; ...
As I have stated, I hit the everything button. I do not bother to look what “category” I am posting in, just what I’d like to respond to.

I see. So we are all to censor ourselves on a thread in the religion forum because you "don't bother to look at what "category" you are posting in, is that correct?

You have personally attacked TN with YOUR "nastiness" which is not allowed on the Religion Forum.

I have one comment to reply to your several comments on this thread...if you are so disturbed by what you choose to see as "hate", I'll make a deal with you...when the 52,000 missionaries for the mormon church stop going out worldwide every day and dishing out hate to Christians by claiming mormonism is the only way to salvation, when the mormon church stops spending millions per year on TV and radio ads and flooding the internet with lies about the REAL Jesus Christ, you and your fellow defenders of mormonism (and Romney) on this thread can righteously whine about our posts. Otherwise, find another FR forum to vent your spleen on. You aren't going to shut us down.

159 posted on 06/01/2011 5:00:17 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Why do people try to "out-nice" Jesus?)
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To: NoGrayZone; Godzilla
A curious statement as you appear to be a defender of mormonISM which is not Biblical.
160 posted on 06/01/2011 5:04:00 PM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: greyfoxx39

161 posted on 06/01/2011 5:05:59 PM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: svcw

No they don’t. Not if they’re true Mormons. All of that is totally against their beliefs.


162 posted on 06/01/2011 5:08:44 PM PDT by RowdyFFC
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To: svcw
Not a “defender” of Mormonism (I truly have no idea what they are about). I do not see mittens as a Mormon, just a slick willied back stabbing “big government” jerk.
163 posted on 06/01/2011 5:16:29 PM PDT by NoGrayZone ("Islamophobia: The irrational fear of being beheaded.")
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To: RowdyFFC; svcw
Adding to SVCW's comment at 147, here are some links you should be interested in given your comment: "No they don’t. Not if they’re true Mormons. All of that is totally against their beliefs."

1. Salt Lake City is America's Leader in Plastic Surgery:
As the number of cosmetic procedures nationwide continues to surge, we looked at which cities have most embraced market demand for taut faces, lush lips and flat abs. Most shocking of all was the town that ranked first: Salt Lake City.
http://www.utahbusiness.com/issues/articles/10710/2011/02/survival_of_the_fittest

2. Utah is America's Most Depressed State:
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/MindMoodNews/story?id=4403731&page=1

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/695231614/Utah-leads-the-nation-in-rates-of-depression.html

3. Utah has the most bankruptcy filings in America:
Despite Utah's falling bankruptcy numbers, the state ranked first nationally in households per filing, with one of every 36.5 households in the state filing for bankruptcy for the 12 months ended March 31, 2004, according to the ABI.
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,600103927,00.html
http://ezinearticles.com/?Utah,-the-Nations-Bankruptcy-Capital&id=38697

It has fallen to second place
http://www.bankruptcyaction.com/USbankstats.htm


4. Utah has the most anti-depressant use, especially in women: Study Finds Utah Leads Nation in Antidepressant Use. Some point to the pressures of Mormonism, especially for women, to explain the surprising findings.
http://www.usu.edu/psycho101/lectures/chp2methods/study.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/06/03/eveningnews/main510918.shtml

5. Utah leads the nation in suicides among men aged 15 to 24:
Could it be that they can't admit they don't want to go on missions, or assume other church "leadership" positions?
http://www.adherents.com/largecom/lds_LowSuicideRate.html
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635201873,00.html

6. Utah has the most per-capita fraud in America:
Salt Lake City, with a mere 170,000 residents, is by far the country's smallest city where the scam-fighting U.S. Securities & Exchange Commission has an office. It has been there since the early 1950s. Why? "There is a lot of fraud here per capita," says local SEC boss Kenneth Israel. "There doesn't seem to be any shortage of work for us."
http://www.lds-mormon.com/6303056a.shtml
http://www.pyramidschemealert.org/PSAMain/news/UtahScamState.html

7. Utah is #1 in mortgage fraud in America:
In 2001, the FBI listed Utah as No. 1 in the country for the amount of mortgage fraud cases reported.
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,600151169,00.html

2006 it dropped to second
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=425506

8. Since 1991, Utah's rape rate has consistently inched higher than the national rate. By 2002, Utah ranked 14th in the nation for rapes.
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,600125585,00.html

9. Utah leads the nation on searches for the seach word “Poronography”, “strip tease” and nudity (all by a wide margin)
http://www.google.com/insights/search/#q=%22nudity%22&geo=US&date=1%2F2010%2012m&cmpt=geo

10. Utah leads the nation in subscriptions to pornographic sites
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705288350/Utah-No-1-in-online-porn-subscriptions-report-says.html

11. Utah placed 24 of 50 for divorce at 3.5 per thousand, Idaho placed 46th at 5 per thousand.
http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/documents/st_DIVORCE_20100813.html


164 posted on 06/01/2011 5:19:20 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Why do people try to "out-nice" Jesus?)
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To: RowdyFFC
Read the lds publications, there are dozens of articles where they are aligning themselves with muslims. Read the statistics about divorce, infidelity and bankruptcy. It maybe be against their stated beliefs but that is not how they live their lives. As a side note, what is a "true" mormon. The only mormons living the life of the original mormons are the flds.

http://www.infobarrel.com/Utah_Divorce_and_Representation_Statistics

In 2002, Utah's personal bankruptcy rate is the highest in U.S. According to an August 2002 Associated Press article:[1] Utah residents are more likely to file for bankruptcy than residents of any other state, according to a financial research organization. During the year ending March 31 [2002], roughly one of every 35 Utah households filed for bankruptcy, according to the American Bankruptcy Institute, a Virginia-based research organization. That far outpaced the national average of one for every 69 households.

http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&newwindow=1&biw=1193&bih=687&q=mormons+%2B+muslims&aq=f&aqi=g1g-v6g-b2&aql=&oq=

165 posted on 06/01/2011 5:29:03 PM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: NoGrayZone; Religion Moderator
Any FReeper can look at all your previous posts and see exactly who you are. If you aren’t bashing Mormons, what else are you good for?

I take it you have had a previous experience with me, since I haven't been actively posting anything at all about Mormonism for about a year. You seem to have a fixation on me, I wonder why.

166 posted on 06/01/2011 5:58:54 PM PDT by colorcountry (Comforting lies are not your friends. Painful truths are not your enemies.)
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To: colorcountry

stalker placemarker


167 posted on 06/01/2011 6:06:24 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: svcw

I don’t know much about the religion except the people that I have met that are mormon are usually great, decent family oriented people I would be glad to have as neighbors. There might be the rotten apple here and there, but I prefer right now to turn my attention to the socialists and muslims. : )


168 posted on 06/01/2011 6:24:52 PM PDT by abigail2
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To: Elsie

I care alot about the God they serve. But I haven’t really been following all this. What has he done that is so bad? What is it about the mormons that everyone is so angry about?


169 posted on 06/01/2011 6:37:48 PM PDT by abigail2
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To: abigail2

Please do research on the Mountain Meadows massacre.
LDS leadership directed the attack on Christians who were passing through.


170 posted on 06/01/2011 6:44:19 PM PDT by mason-dixon (As Mason said to Dixon, you have to draw the line somewhere.)
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To: abigail2
Well, Abs if lds were not aligning themselves with muslims you might have a point. They do have a great PR machine.
171 posted on 06/01/2011 6:44:46 PM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: abigail2
Abs when you say you do not know much about what they (lds) believe, you need to find out. In short, lds teach that Jesus is created not Eternal, that God was once a man just like us and progressed to a godhood status, lds teach that you must work for your Salvation “after all you can do”, they teach that all men can become gods, Joseph Smith would decide who gets into heaven, he once said he was greater than Jesus, he also said he would be the next mohammad - you should find out what and who they are and not rely on the lds PR machine.
172 posted on 06/01/2011 6:53:25 PM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: abigail2

1) 161 years ago, Mormons murdered people crossing the dessert
2) Some Freepers used to be Mormons and feel bad about it while blaming the church for all ills
3) Romney is the anti-FR candidate and is a Mormon

That is why there are anti Mormon threads popping up a few times a day. Ive seen the same crew try to use BYU’s basketball tournament loss as a springboard into to Mormon Derangement Syndrome. And yes, it is possible to hate something without saying “I hate...” We all know Obama hates the Constitution, but he has never used the words in any publication.


173 posted on 06/01/2011 7:10:25 PM PDT by Raider Sam (They're on our left, right, front, and back. They aint gettin away this time!)
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To: Raider Sam
not anti-mormon, anti-mormonISM
174 posted on 06/01/2011 7:39:27 PM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: Raider Sam
mormons teach Jesus was created, that God was once a man, that you must earn your Salvation, that J Smith said he would decide who goes to heaven, that he would be the next mohammad. It is mormonISM that is the issue.
175 posted on 06/01/2011 7:42:23 PM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: Colofornian

I am not familiar with Bill Keller. Is his platform that a Mormon should not hold office, or that any non-Christian should not hold office? For example, what about an Orthodox Jew or an individual of no faith?


176 posted on 06/01/2011 7:42:23 PM PDT by TheDingoAteMyBaby
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To: Texan Tory
So I think it is equally wrong to extrapolate clannish behavior by some Mormons to Mormons generally. True.

There is plenty of clannishness to go around in ANY organization!

But; on the flip side:

...it is equally wrong to extrapolate NON-clannish behavior by some Mormons to Mormons generally.

177 posted on 06/01/2011 7:46:11 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: NoGrayZone

No problem; as it is easy to get confused here.

I think I might have been confused a few times as well ;^)


178 posted on 06/01/2011 7:47:53 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: NoGrayZone
You are right about how Jesus treated sinners, but wrong about Him extending that same treatment to the self righteous:

Downing others, I believe, is prideful.


(Sourced from NIV)


 


 
Matthew 15:16
   "Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them.

Matthew 23
 
  1.  Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples:
  2.  "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
  3.  So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
  4.  They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
  5.  "Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries  wide and the tassels on their garments long;
  6.  they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues;
  7.  they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them `Rabbi.'
  8.  "But you are not to be called `Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers.
  9.  And do not call anyone on earth `father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
 10.  Nor are you to be called `teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ.
 11.  The greatest among you will be your servant.
 12.  For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
 13.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. 
 14.  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. 
 15.   "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are. 
 16.  "Woe to you, blind guides! You say, `If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.'
 17.  You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred?
 18.  You also say, `If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.'
 19.  You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred?
 20.  Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it.
 21.  And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it.
 22.  And he who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it.
 23.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
 24.  You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
 25.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
 26.  Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
 27.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites!  You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean.
 28.  In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
 29.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous.
 30.  And you say, `If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.'
 31.  So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets.
 32.  Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!
 33.  "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?
 34.  Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.
 35.  And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
 36.  I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.
 37.  "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.
 38.  Look, your house is left to you desolate.
 39.  For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, `Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.' "
 


Mark 7:26-27
 26.  The woman was a Greek, born in Syrian Phoenicia. She begged Jesus to drive the demon out of her daughter.
 27.  "First let the children eat all they want," he told her, "for it is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."
 

And St. Paul chimes in...

Galatians 5:12
   As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!
 


179 posted on 06/01/2011 7:52:59 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: NoGrayZone
The only thing I am concerned with is finding a Bible based church...

I pray that you do. We all need the fellowship of LIKE-MINDED believers.

180 posted on 06/01/2011 7:55:01 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: NoGrayZone
If you are not comfortable with the "open" Religion Forum threads, do not use the "everything" browse or else IGNORE them altogether.

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

181 posted on 06/01/2011 7:58:04 PM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: Zakeet
You keep that up and you will wind up spending time and all eternity in the celestial cellar like all the other evil souls bearing the Curse of Cain.

Well; it's up to YOU whether your destiny is door #1, #2 or #3!

--MormonDude(I still haven't figgered out, that if GOD took away the CURSE in 1978; how come there are STILL folks born with BLACK SKIN??)

182 posted on 06/01/2011 7:58:26 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: NoGrayZone
The only “plan” in your little head is to get the “hate Mormons” going.

Sigh...

183 posted on 06/01/2011 8:00:13 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: svcw

Well, since a lot of the threads are about specific Mormons, then I would stay with my original assertion.


184 posted on 06/01/2011 8:00:21 PM PDT by Raider Sam (They're on our left, right, front, and back. They aint gettin away this time!)
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To: NoGrayZone

James 1:27(NIV)

Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.


185 posted on 06/01/2011 8:01:53 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: greyfoxx39
I have one comment to reply to your several comments on this thread...if you are so disturbed by what you choose to see as "hate", I'll make a deal with you...when the 52,000 missionaries for the mormon church stop going out worldwide every day and dishing out hate to Christians by claiming mormonism is the only way to salvation, when the mormon church stops spending millions per year on TV and radio ads and flooding the internet with lies about the REAL Jesus Christ, you and your fellow defenders of mormonism (and Romney) on this thread can righteously whine about our posts. Otherwise, find another FR forum to vent your spleen on. You aren't going to shut us down.

BRAVO!!!!! Well said greyfoxx39!

186 posted on 06/01/2011 8:03:02 PM PDT by dragonblustar (Got toast?)
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To: Elsie; Tennessee Nana; Colofornian
MormonDude(I still haven't figgered out, that if GOD took away the CURSE in 1978; how come there are STILL folks born with BLACK SKIN??)

Myself, I still haven't figured out that, if God took away the CURSE in 1978, how come the Blacks born before then didn't immediately become White and Delightsome?

Answer me that, you Lamonite!

187 posted on 06/01/2011 8:07:12 PM PDT by Zakeet (The difference between the Wee Wee and a battery ... the battery has a positive side)
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To: Colofornian
(But I would like an "in" on marketing that inward-judgment mind-reading contraption you got...Magic 8-ball, perhaps?

 


 THE FIRST BOOK OF NEPHI

HIS REIGN AND MINISTRY
CHAPTER 16
 
The wicked take the truth to be hard—Lehi’s sons marry the daughters of Ishmael—The Liahona guides their course in the wilderness—Messages from the Lord are written on the Liahona from time to time—Ishmael dies; his family murmur because of afflictions. Between 600 and 592 B.C.
 
1 And now it came to pass that after I, Nephi, had made an end of speaking to my brethren, behold they said unto me: Thou hast declared unto us hard things, more than we are able to bear.
2 And it came to pass that I said unto them that I knew that I had spoken ahard things against the wicked, according to the truth; and the righteous have I justified, and testified that they should be lifted up at the last day; wherefore, the bguilty taketh the ctruth to be hard, for it dcutteth them to the very center.
3 And now my brethren, if ye were righteous and were willing to hearken to the truth, and give heed unto it, that ye might awalk uprightly before God, then ye would not murmur because of the truth, and say: Thou speakest hard things against us.
4 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did exhort my brethren, with all diligence, to keep the commandments of the Lord.
5 And it came to pass that they did ahumble themselves before the Lord; insomuch that I had joy and great hopes of them, that they would walk in the paths of righteousness.
6 Now, all these things were said and done as my father dwelt in a tent in the avalley which he called Lemuel.
7 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, took one of the adaughters of Ishmael to bwife; and also, my brethren took of the cdaughters of Ishmael to wife; and also dZoram took the eldest daughter of Ishmael to wife.
8 And thus my father had fulfilled all the acommandments of the Lord which had been given unto him. And also, I, Nephi, had been blessed of the Lord exceedingly.
9 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord spake unto my father by night, and commanded him that on the morrow he should take his ajourney into the wilderness.
10 And it came to pass that as my father arose in the morning, and went forth to the tent door, to his great astonishment he beheld upon the ground a round aball of curious workmanship; and it was of fine brass. And within the ball were two spindles; and the one bpointed the way whither we should go into the wilderness.
11 And it came to pass that we did gather together whatsoever things we should carry into the wilderness, and all the remainder of our provisions which the Lord had given unto us; and we did take aseed of every kind that we might carry into the wilderness.
12 And it came to pass that we did take our tents and depart into the wilderness, across the river Laman.
13 And it came to pass that we traveled for the space of four days, nearly a south-southeast direction, and we did pitch our tents again; and we did call the name of the place aShazer.
14 And it came to pass that we did take our bows and our arrows, and go forth into the wilderness to slay food for our families; and after we had slain food for our families we did return again to our families in the wilderness, to the place of Shazer. And we did go forth again in the wilderness, following the same direction, keeping in the most fertile parts of the wilderness, which were in the borders near the aRed Sea.
15 And it came to pass that we did travel for the space of many days, aslaying food by the way, with our bows and our arrows and our stones and our slings.
16 And we did follow the adirections of the ball, which led us in the more fertile parts of the wilderness.
17 And after we had traveled for the space of many days, we did pitch our tents for the space of a time, that we might again rest ourselves and obtain food for our families.
18 And it came to pass that as I, Nephi, went forth to slay food, behold, I did break my bow, which was made of fine asteel; and after I did break my bow, behold, my brethren were angry with me because of the loss of my bow, for we did obtain no food.
19 And it came to pass that we did return without food to our families, and being much fatigued, because of their journeying, they did suffer much for the want of food.
20 And it came to pass that Laman and Lemuel and the sons of Ishmael did begin to murmur exceedingly, because of their sufferings and afflictions in the wilderness; and also my father began to murmur against the Lord his God; yea, and they were all exceedingly sorrowful, even that they did amurmur against the Lord.
21 Now it came to pass that I, Nephi, having been afflicted with my brethren because of the loss of my bow, and their bows having lost their asprings, it began to be exceedingly difficult, yea, insomuch that we could obtain no food.
22 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did speak much unto my brethren, because they had hardened their hearts again, even unto acomplaining against the Lord their God.
23 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did amake out of wood a bow, and out of a straight stick, an arrow; wherefore, I did arm myself with a bow and an arrow, with a sling and with stones. And I said unto my bfather: Whither shall I go to obtain food?
24 And it came to pass that he did ainquire of the Lord, for they had bhumbled themselves because of my words; for I did say many things unto them in the energy of my soul.
25 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord came unto my father; and he was truly achastened because of his murmuring against the Lord, insomuch that he was brought down into the depths of sorrow.
26 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord said unto him: Look upon the ball, and behold the things which are written.
27 And it came to pass that when my father beheld the things which were awritten upon the ball, he did fear and tremble exceedingly, and also my brethren and the sons of Ishmael and our wives.
28 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the pointers which were in the ball, that they did work according to the afaith and diligence and heed which we did give unto them.
29 And there was also written upon them a new writing, which was plain to be read, which did give us aunderstanding concerning the ways of the Lord; and it was written and changed from time to time, according to the faith and diligence which we gave unto it. And thus we see that by bsmall means the Lord can bring about great things.
30 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did go forth up into the top of the mountain, according to the adirections which were given upon the ball.
31 And it came to pass that I did slay wild abeasts, insomuch that I did obtain food for our families.
32 And it came to pass that I did return to our tents, bearing the beasts which I had slain; and now when they beheld that I had obtained afood, how great was their joy! And it came to pass that they did humble themselves before the Lord, and did give thanks unto him.
33 And it came to pass that we did again take our journey, traveling nearly the same course as in the beginning; and after we had traveled for the space of many days we did pitch our tents again, that we might tarry for the space of a time.
34 And it came to pass that aIshmael died, and was buried in the place which was called bNahom.
35 And it came to pass that the daughters of Ishmael did amourn exceedingly, because of the loss of their father, and because of their bafflictions in the wilderness; and they did cmurmur against my father, because he had brought them out of the land of Jerusalem, saying: Our father is dead; yea, and we have wandered much in the wilderness, and we have suffered much affliction, hunger, thirst, and fatigue; and after all these sufferings we must perish in the wilderness with hunger.
36 And thus they did murmur against my father, and also against me; and they were desirous to areturn again to Jerusalem.
37 And Laman said unto Lemuel and also unto the sons of Ishmael: Behold, let us aslay our father, and also our brother Nephi, who has taken it upon him to be our bruler and our teacher, who are his elder brethren.
38 Now, he says that the Lord has talked with him, and also that aangels have ministered unto him. But behold, we know that he lies unto us; and he tells us these things, and he worketh many things by his cunning arts, that he may deceive our eyes, thinking, perhaps, that he may lead us away into some strange wilderness; and after he has led us away, he has thought to make himself a king and a ruler over us, that he may do with us according to his will and pleasure. And after this manner did my brother Laman bstir up their hearts to canger.
39 And it came to pass that the Lord was with us, yea, even the voice of the Lord came and did speak many words unto them, and did achasten them exceedingly; and after they were chastened by the voice of the Lord they did turn away their anger, and did repent of their sins, insomuch that the Lord did bless us again with food, that we did not perish.

188 posted on 06/01/2011 8:26:37 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: RowdyFFC
...and don’t buy on credit and then hit the bankruptcy courts literally stealing from other cardholders legally.

But they DO have an extraordinary amount of white collar crime in UTAH.

But they DO have an extraordinary amount of PROZAC® usage in UTAH.

189 posted on 06/01/2011 8:28:28 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Texan Tory
Good point actually, about the age of the brides, considering that the leader of the FLDS was brought up on charges relating to this. Do you feel it is fair for the mainstream LDS, by association, to be tainted by this?

Well, again, you're making assumptions about big distinctions that aren't there. Here, I'll even supply hard-to-come by documentation to back that up:

Note how young the 19th century Mormon wives were!

The book, Changing World, p. 226: The early Mormon leaders certainly did allow their young people to marry at an early age. Mosiah Hancock was only 11 years old when he was "sealed" to a "young girl." According to his journal, he was "born in Kirtland, Ohio, on April the 9th, 1834." ("The Mosiah Hancock Journal," typed copy, p.1). On pages 20 and 21 of the same journal, he recorded: On about January 10, 1846, I was privileged to go in the temple and receive my washings and annointings. I was sealed to a lovely young girl named Mary, who was about my age, but it was with the understanding that we were not to live together as man and wife until we were 16 years of age. The reason that some were sealed so young was because we knew that we would have to go West and wait many a long time for another temple.

According to Stanley P. Hirshon, who wrote a biography of Brigham Young: "Make haste and get married," Remy heard Young preach. "Let me see no boys above sixteen and girls above fourteen unmarried." ... In 1857 The New York Times, reporting the sealings to old men of two girls aged ten and eleven, estimated that most girls married before they were fourteen.... Troskolawsski knew one bishop who was sealed to four of his nieces, the youngest thirteen years old....On August 1, 1856, he put on the stagecoach for Ohio twelve-year-old Emma Wheat, who was being forced into a marriage she detested." (The Lion of the Lord, pp.126-27).

Changing World, p. 225: The shortage of women was so great that some of the men were marrying girls who were very young. Fanny Stenhouse stated:

"That same year, a bill was brought into the Territorial Legislature, providing that boys of fifteen years of age and girls of twelve might legally contract marriage, with the consent of their parents or guardians!" (Tell It All, 1875, p.607).

According to http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/no91.htm, Stenhouse was "at one time had been a firm believer in Mormonism and had even allowed her husband to take another wife. She wrote: "It would be quite impossible, with any regard to propriety, to relate all the horrible results of this disgraceful system.... Marriages have been contracted between the nearest of relatives; and old men tottering on the brink of the grave have been united to little girls scarcely in their teens; while unnatural alliances of every description, which in any other community would be regarded with disgust and abhorrence, are here entered into in the name of God...It is quite a common thing in Utah for a man to marry two or even three sisters.... I know also another man who married a widow with several children; and when one of the girls had grown into her teens he insisted on marrying her also... and to this very day the daughter bears children to her step-father, living as wife in the same house with her mother!" (Tell It All, 1874, pages 468-69)

Per researcher George D. Smith (Source: "Nauvoo Polygamists", George D. Smith, Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Spring 1994, p. ix, as found at http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/no91.htm) discovered that of "a list of 153 men who took plural wives in the early years of the Mormon Church. When we examined this list, we noted that two of the young girls were only thirteen years old when they were lured into polygamy. Thirteen girls were only fourteen years old. Twenty-one were fifteen years old, and fifty-three were sixteen years old when they were secretly enticed into this degrading lifestyle."

"I shall not seal the people as I have done. Old Father Alread brought three young girls 12 & 13 years old. I would not seal them to him. They would not be equally yoked together...Many get their endowments who are not worthy and this is the way that devils are made." (Source: Wilford Woodruff, Wilford Woodruff's Journal, 5:58.)

Examples of real young girls being married off in 19th century Mormon families: Judson Tolman, 19, married first wife Sarah Holbrook, 13, in 1846 before adding 4 more wives; James Francis Johnson married Rozina Richmond,13 (perhaps 14) in 1876...then J.F. Johnson took on another wife in 1894 after the so-called "manifesto" supposedly "ending" polygamy--to Clara Barber who was 16--maybe 17. J.F. Johnson was in his late 30s at that time he married Barber.

24 yo Arthur Clark married 14 yo Mary Rasmussen as the second of four wives; Charles Richardson married 14 yo first wife Sarah Adams in 1882--his third wife (Carolina Jacobson) was probably 16 & he was 30. (He had 4 wives overall)

Thomas Chamberlain II actually double-married two 17 yo on the same date in 1873!...and then added on a 15 yo (Ann Carling) in 1875 followed by her sister--also 15--three years later.

Notice how the initial LDS leaders set the terrible example for fLDS leaders by being in their 40s or late 30s (or beyond re: later LDS "prophets"):

Just look at the compulsory "wifehood" of underaged teens: Brigham Young, when he was in his 40s, wedded 15-year-old Clarissa Decker, 16-year-old Ellen Rockwood (when Young was 44); and 16-year-old Lucy Bigelow (when Young was 45).

Its initial "prophet"--Joseph Smith--promised salvation to the household of the Kimball Klan, and what do you know? 14-year-old Helen Mar Kimball, who initially hated polygamy, was part of Smith's harem. Smith also added to his long list of wives 16-year-old Presendia Huntington.

Abel Hardy married a 15 yo (Maria Cooley) in 1896 and then post-manifesto, married Cynthia Porter (16) in 1901. (Hundreds of 16 yo LDS girls were married off as plural wives in the 19th century and early 20th century).

190 posted on 06/01/2011 8:30:40 PM PDT by Colofornian (Key Q for Romney & Huntsman: Show us your spirit-birth certificate from Kolob)
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To: svcw
mormons align themselves with muslims.

What do you expect??


 

“I Will Be a Second Mohammed”

In the heat of the Missouri “Mormon War” of 1838, Joseph Smith made the following claim, “I will be to this generation a second Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was ‘the Alcoran [Koran] or the Sword.’ So shall it eventually be with us—‘Joseph Smith or the Sword!’ ”[1] 

It is most interesting that a self-proclaimed Christian prophet would liken himself to Mohammed, the founder of Islam. His own comparison invites us to take a closer look as well. And when we do, we find some striking—and troubling—parallels. Consider the following.

  • Mohammed and Joseph Smith both had humble beginnings. Neither had formal religious connections or upbringing, and both were relatively uneducated. Both founded new religions by creating their own scriptures. In fact, followers of both prophets claim these scriptures are miracles since their authors were the most simple and uneducated of men.[2]

  • Both prophets claim of having angel visitations, and of receiving divine revelation to restore pure religion to the earth again. Mohammed was told that both Jews and Christians had long since corrupted their scriptures and religion. In like manner, Joseph Smith was told that all of Christianity had become corrupt, and that consequently the Bible itself was no longer reliable. In both cases, this corruption required a complete restoration of both scripture and religion. Nothing which preceded either prophet could be relied upon any longer. Both prophets claim they were used of God to restore eternal truths which once existed on earth, but had been lost due to human corruption.

  • Both prophets created new scripture which borrowed heavily from the Bible, but with a substantially new “spin.” In his Koran, Mohammed appropriates a number of Biblical themes and characters—but he changes the complete sense of many passages, claiming to “correct” the Bible. In so doing he changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place. In like manner, Joseph Smith created the Book of Mormon, much of which is plagiarized directly from the King James Bible. Interestingly, the Book of Mormon claims that this same Bible has been substantially corrupted and is therefore unreliable. In addition, Joseph Smith went so far as to actually create his own version of the Bible itself, the “Inspired Version,” in which he both adds and deletes significant portions of text, claiming he is “correcting” it. In so doing he also changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place.

  • As a part of their new scriptural “spin,” both prophets saw themselves as prophesied in scripture, and both saw themselves as a continuation of a long line of Biblical prophets. Mohammed saw himself as a continuation of the ministry of Moses and Jesus. Joseph Smith saw himself as a successor to Enoch, Melchizedek, Joseph and Moses. Joseph Smith actually wrote himself into his own version of the Bible—by name.

  • Both prophets held up their own scripture as superior to the Bible. Mohammed claimed that the Koran was a perfect copy of the original which was in heaven. The Koran is therefore held to be absolutely perfect, far superior to the Bible and superceding it. In like manner, Joseph Smith also made the following claim. “I told the Brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding its precepts, than by any other book.”[3]

  • Despite their claim that the Bible was corrupt, both prophets admonished their followers to adhere to its teachings. An obvious contradiction, this led to selective acceptance of some portions and wholesale rejection of others. As a result, the Bible is accepted by both groups of followers only to the extent that it agrees with their prophet’s own superior revelation.

  • Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith  taught that true salvation was to be found only in their respective religions. Those who would not accept their message were considered “infidels,” pagans or Gentiles. In so doing, both prophets became the enemy of genuine Christianity, and have led many people away from the Christ of the Bible.

  • Both prophets encountered fierce opposition to their new religions and had to flee from town to town because of threats on their lives. Both retaliated to this opposition by forming their own militias. Both ultimately set up their own towns as model societies.

  • Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith left unclear instructions about their successors. The majority of Mohammed’s followers, Sunni Muslims, believe they were to elect their new leader, whereas the minority, Shiite Muslims, believe Mohammed’s son was to be their next leader. Similarly, the majority of Joseph Smith's followers, Mormons, believed their next prophet should have been the existing leader of their quorum of twelve apostles, whereas the minority, RLDS, believed Joseph Smith's own son should have been their next prophet. Differences on this issue, and many others, have created substantial tension between these rival groups of each prophet.

  • Mohammed taught that Jesus was just another of a long line of human prophets, of which he was the last. He taught that he was superior to Christ and superceded Him. In comparison, Joseph Smith also made the following claim.

“I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him, but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.”[4] In light of these parallels, perhaps Joseph Smith's claim to be a second Mohammed unwittingly became his most genuine prophecy of all.


[1] Joseph Smith made this statement at the conclusion of a speech in the public square at Far West, Missouri on October 14, 1838. This particular quote is documented in Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History, second edition, (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1971), p. 230–231. Fawn Brodie’s footnote regarding this speech contains valuable information, and follows. “Except where noted, all the details of this chapter [16] are taken from the History of the [Mormon] Church. This speech, however, was not recorded there, and the report given here is based upon the accounts of seven men. See the affidavits of T.B. Marsh, Orson Hyde, George M. Hinkle, John Corrill, W.W. Phelps, Samson Avard, and Reed Peck in Correspondence, Orders, etc., pp. 57–9, 97–129. The Marsh and Hyde account, which was made on October 24, is particularly important. Part of it was reproduced in History of the [Mormon] Church, Vol. III, p. 167. See also the Peck manuscript, p. 80. Joseph himself barely mentioned the speech in his history; see Vol. III, p. 162.”

[2] John Ankerberg & John Weldon, The Facts on Islam, (Eugene, OR: Harvest House Publishers, 1998), pp.8–9. Eric Johnson, Joseph Smith  & Muhammed, (El Cajon, CA: Mormonism Research Ministry, 1998), pp. 6–7.

[3] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.4, pp.461.

[4] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.6, pp.408–409.


191 posted on 06/01/2011 8:31:22 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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You must go though many a post that displays the hate. If you really want to know, go through them.

PD!!

You're BACK!

192 posted on 06/01/2011 8:33:04 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Texan Tory
Do you feel it is fair for the mainstream LDS, by association, to be tainted by this?

Salt Lake City MORMONs are 'tainted' by the Scriptures that they DON'T obey.

Are you one of THEM?

It's warm weather; and most all of them are STILL eating meat!

193 posted on 06/01/2011 8:35:03 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: abigail2
What is it about the mormons that everyone is so angry about?

 

MORMON
ATTITUDES OF SUPERIORITY
 

  1. I’m Superior; I have a special gift of the holy Ghost -- you don’t!
  2. I’m Superior; I have God’s true priesthood power -- you don’t!
  3. I’m Superior; I can go in God’s secret Temple -- you can’t!
  4. I’m Superior; I’ve been Endowed with special Gifts and Knowledge -- you’re just normal!
  5. I’m Superior; I’ll have my family with me in heaven -- you’ll be with strangers!
  6. I’m Superior; I’m becoming a God -- you aren’t!
  7. I’m Superior; My women know their place as servants of man and yours don’t.
  8. I’m Superior; YOUR creeds are wrong because they come from man - mine comes from God (you can find each one printed in our Scriptures).
  9. I’m Superior; I don’t HAVE a creed - I’ve got 13 Articles of Faith.
10. I'm Superior; I have 4 "Bibles"-- the standard works (5 if you count the JST) -- you've only got one: in as far as it is translated correctly.
11. I’m Superior; I can lie with impunity about such things as church membership, church growth, church doctrine, church history, church influence, etc. —                           -- You can’t.
12. I’m Superior; I am right (everybody knows) when I say 'evangelical' Christians are lunatics -- 
                           -- You’re a hideous narrow-minded bigot, who is persecuting me by practicing discrimination by saying I'm not a Christian.
13. I'm Superior; I have a testimony about a prophet -- you don't.
14. I'm Superior; I have a Scripture-producing Amos 3:7 prophet -- you don't
15. I’m Superior; I have a Living Prophet who talks to god every day -- you have a dim-witted hireling of Satan who only talks to himself.
16. I'm Superior; I have my calling & election made sure -- you don't.
17. I’m Superior; I have magic underwear to protect me from the bogey man -- you don’t.
18. I’m Superior; I have secret clasps and grips to give the angel so I get admitted to the celestial kingdom -- you don’t ;so you can’t.
19. I'm Superior; I know secret handshake codes for afterlife entrances-- you don't.
20. I’m Superior; I will see Joseph Smith setting on the right hand of GOD, when I get to Mormon heaven, and he will recognize me and judge me favorably                              -- You’re on your own; when you get to wherever you’re going!
21. I’m Superior; I’m going to hie to Kolob -- you’re going to who knows where.
22. I’m Superior; I get to have a harem and act like a celestial stud for time and all eternity -- you don’t.
23. I’m Superior; I have sun stones, moon stones, sky stones, cloud stones, Saturn stones, and the evil eye of Osirus guarding my temple
                            -- You have nothing but a stupid cross.
24. I’m Superior; My church has billions in assets stashed away -- yours has taken a stupid vow of poverty.
25. I'm Superior; Last - we have the power to keep a whole race out of our priesthood if we wanted to reinsert our 148-year legacy  (we ARE still keeping an entire GENDER at bay!)
26.  I'm superior; I have the "higher law" -- everyone else "lives under the "lesser law' because I say so...(over and over).
 
 
Revision 46.5
Semi-Official creed of the EXclusive club of Freeper Flying Inmans.
All rights liable to be abused.

194 posted on 06/01/2011 8:37:26 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: abigail2
What is it about the mormons that everyone is so angry about?


195 posted on 06/01/2011 8:38:29 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Raider Sam

Are the present day mormons murdering people? Are they pro life? I know alot of religions that are not pro life and that is a deal breaker for me. But talking about what a religion did 161 years ago doesn’t bother me. Many religions never spoke up to Hitler, or against slavery. Do you think we have enough in common with them to work together to get Sharia and socialism out of our country?


196 posted on 06/01/2011 8:40:56 PM PDT by abigail2
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To: Elsie

That makes me laugh. Please, don’t you think we have more important things to focus on. I am not going to vote for Romney, because I am a tea partier...I go with someone who understands what is going on. But I wish no ill will on him just because he thinks his underwear is better than mine...(it probably is!)


197 posted on 06/01/2011 9:22:58 PM PDT by abigail2
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To: Raider Sam

Specific mormons? Which ones? I know there are articles posted from lds owned papers but specific mormons, hum.


198 posted on 06/01/2011 9:23:41 PM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: abigail2

I wasnt defending them.


199 posted on 06/01/2011 9:29:04 PM PDT by Raider Sam (They're on our left, right, front, and back. They aint gettin away this time!)
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To: abigail2
ewww, Glad you brought up Hitler........mormons well apparently had no problem with him. Are mormons pro-life? Can you name one elected federal mormon who is? About sharia law, the mormons are aligning themselves with muslims.....why you ask? Well, all you need to do is read their publications where they praise the alliance.
200 posted on 06/01/2011 9:32:31 PM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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