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A Different God? Mitt Romney, the Religious Right, and the Mormon Question
BYU Studies ^ | Reviewer Roger Terry of author Craig Foster's book

Posted on 06/12/2011 5:01:54 PM PDT by Colofornian

As can be expected from a book published by Greg Kofford, Craig L. Foster’s A Different God? is well researched and engaging. This book begins by examining the rise of the religious right and the power it exerts on the current political landscape. Foster presents a good deal of information that most Latter-day Saints will not be well acquainted with, such as the difference between evangelical and fundamentalist Christians, the emergence of the charismatic movement, the rise and fall of the Moral Majority, and the subsequent establishment of the Christian Coalition. This background is particularly pertinent to the majority of Mormons in the western United States who align themselves with the Republican Party.

Foster also gives a concise but surprisingly comprehensive summary of the political history of the Latter-day Saints. Because official Church curriculum does not address in detail the period from about 1850 until World War II or even later, most Mormons are rather uneducated regarding their political past, particularly the theocratic era that prevailed until the Edmunds–Tucker Act precipitated several changes, including the Manifesto in 1890 and the disbanding of the People’s Party in 1891. The fact that most Mormons at the time gravitated toward the Democratic Party might surprise some of their modern descendents.

While Foster, an ardent Romney supporter, is admirably objective about the many weaknesses that undermined Mitt Romney’s run for the Republican presidential nomination, his thesis in this book is that these flaws could have been overcome if not for a larger issue that eventually doomed the Romney campaign: the Mormon Question. This book apparently went to press after John McCain had secured his party’s nomination but before he had selected his running mate, but it still has validity far beyond the 2008 presidential primaries. His thorough examination of the strong anti-Mormon sentiment that still seethes in America, especially among the religious right, will be relevant if Romney runs again in 2012 or if any other Latter-day Saint takes aim at the presidency in a future election.

Even though Foster doesn’t quite arrive at this particular destination, the sobering conclusion that his presentation inevitably yields is that if a Mormon is to be elected United States president in the foreseeable future, he or she may have to run as a moderate Republican or, perhaps even more realistically, as a moderate Democrat.


TOPICS: Evangelical Christian; Other Christian; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: antimormonfatwa; antimormonjihad; antimormontant; bigot; bitterantimormon; bitterformermormon; evangelical; formermormon; hatespeech; lds; mormoaner; mormon; mormonbashing; mormophobic; pharisees; religiousbigot; religiousextremist; religiousintolerance; religiouszealot; romney; romney2012; throwthefirststone; usedtobeamormon; whiningmormons; zealot
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From the review: ...Foster, an ardent Romney supporter, is admirably objective about the many weaknesses that undermined Mitt Romney’s run for the Republican presidential nomination, his thesis in this book is that these flaws could have been overcome if not for a larger issue that eventually doomed the Romney campaign: the Mormon Question...Even though Foster doesn’t quite arrive at this particular destination, the sobering conclusion that his presentation inevitably yields is that if a Mormon is to be elected United States president in the foreseeable future, he or she may have to run as a moderate Republican or, perhaps even more realistically, as a moderate Democrat.

Well, Romney was doomed by BOTH the "Mormon Question" and his RINO flip-flopping!

1 posted on 06/12/2011 5:02:04 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

His problem is not that he’s a Mormon....it is that he’s Mitt Romney.


2 posted on 06/12/2011 5:06:50 PM PDT by proxy_user
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To: All
A Different God?

Yup.

The Mormon gods are distinct from the one true, Ultimate God.

Here is a key god of the Mormons:

God and man are of the same race, differing only in their degrees of advancement” (Lds “apostle” John A. Widtsoe, Rational Theology, 1915, p. 61)

”According to revelation, however, he is a personal Being, a holy and exalted Man, a glorified, resurrected Personage having a tangible body of flesh and bones, an anthropomorphic Entity, the personal Father of the spirits of all men.” (Bruce R. Mconkie, Mormon Doctrine, 1966, p. 250)

The doctrine that God was once a man and has progressed to become a God is unique to this Church.” (Teachings of the Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young, 1997, p. 34)

We offend again in our doctrine that men are of the same race with the divine personages we call Gods. Great stress is laid upon the idea that we believe that 'as man is, God once was, and as God now is, man may become.' The world usually shouts 'blasphemy' and 'sacrilege' at one when he talks of such a possibility (B.H. Roberts, 1992, Defense of The Faith and The Saints 2:570)

(Roberts, Btw, was a Democrat elected by Utah voters as one of its first Congressman...Congress sent him packing and never allowed him to be seated because Roberts took simulaneous wife #3 in 1893 or 1894 AFTER the supposed announcement that the Mormon church would address polygamy).

The Father is a glorified, perfected, resurrected, exalted man who worked out his salvation by obedience to the same laws he has given to us so that we may do the same.” (Lds “apostle” Bruce R. McConkie, A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, p. 64)

“When you can thus feel, then you may begin to think that you can find out something about God, and begin to learn who he is. He is our Father—the Father of our spirits, and was once a man in mortal flesh as we are, and is now an exalted Being.” (Brigham Young, Oct. 8, 1859, JoD, 7:333)

It appears ridiculous to the world, under their darkened and erroneous traditions, that God has been once a finite being; and yet we are not in such close communion with him as many have supposed,” (Brigham Young, Oct. 8, 1859, JoD, 7:333)

“The idea that the Lord our God is not a personage of tabernacle is entirely a mistaken notion. He was once a man.” (Brigham Young, Feb. 23, 1862, JoD, 9:286)

“What, is it possible that the Father of Heights, the Father of our spirits, could reduce himself and come forth like a man? Yes, he was once a man like you and I are and was once on an earth like this...He had his father and his mother and he has been exalted through his faithfulness, and he is beomce Lord of all.” (The Essential Brigham Young, p. 138)

“Knowing what we know concerning God our Father-- that he is a personal being; that he has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as our own; that he is an exalted and glorified being; that he was once a man and dwelt on an earth – and knowing that this knowledge was had by many of the ancients, should we be surprised to find legends and myths throughout the cultures of the earth concerning gods who have divine power but human attributes and passions?” (BYU professor Robert L. Millet, “The Eternal Gospel,” Ensign, July 1996, p. 53)

”Joseph Smith did in fact teach that God is a Man of Holiness, an exalted and glorified man.” (BYU professor Robert L., Millet, The Mormon Faith: Understanding Restored Christianity, p. 169)

”Joseph Smith's purpose is to show that the Bible teaches that our Father in Heaven was once mortal, as we are.” (BYU professor Emeritus Joseph Fielding McConkie and Craig Ostler, Revelations of the Restoration, p. 1087)

Imagine "President Romney" praying to such a god for help in a crisis!

ONE OTHER very key different as to why Mormons have a "different god": They believe that the ONLY ones who get to live forever with this god are...
...Married to worthy, faithful temple Mormons...[singles not allowed...or women married to unworthy Mormons not allowed]

This means that if you are not a temple Mormon, the Mormon church says your chances of living with this god forever are nil.

3 posted on 06/12/2011 5:11:13 PM PDT by Colofornian (I already have a God as my leader. Why do I need ANOTHER one as POTUS?)
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To: Colofornian

So many things in this world are upside down. I wish we could go back to a time when blacks were republican and mormons were democrats.


4 posted on 06/12/2011 5:14:11 PM PDT by pennyfarmer (Even a RINO will chew its foot off when caught in a trap.)
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To: proxy_user

You don’t have to hang out around FR very long to realize that for many of the posters, it IS his being Mormon.

No doubt many of them would not vote for Romney were he a Baptist. But I also suspect a good many would not have voted for Reagan had he been Mormon.


5 posted on 06/12/2011 5:17:48 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: All
From the review: ...most Mormons are rather uneducated regarding their political past, particularly the theocratic era that prevailed until the Edmunds–Tucker Act precipitated several changes, including the Manifesto in 1890 and the disbanding of the People’s Party in 1891. The fact that most Mormons at the time gravitated toward the Democratic Party might surprise some of their modern descendents.

Yup. Many Mormons were Democrats up until the early 1890s when Mormon leadership told many of the sheep to switch parties. They wanted to come across to national political leadership as more balanced so that statehood would not be denied them.

Imagine that. Mormons switching parties 'cause their leaders told them to!

Want a source?

During most of the 19th century, Utah was polarized along local rather than national party lines. Two local parties dominated the political scene: the “Mormon People’s Party” and the “Gentile Liberal Party.” When Mormons did think in terms of national politics, they were almost universally Democrat, as the Republicans opposed Utah statehood. Brigham Young was a life-long Democrat.

In order to gain the senate’s approval for statehood, Utah was required to “normalize its political allegiances.” The Church disbanded the Mormon People’s Party but feared that a mass Mormon migration to the Democratic Party would displease Republican senators. Church leaders sent Apostle John Henry Smith to visit LDS congregations. It was possible to be a faithful Mormon and a Republican, he explained to the amazement of many LDS faithful. In 1893, the Church even asked some specific families to become Republicans, a move that would be unimaginable today.

Largely because of this Church effort, Republicans and Democrats were both well-represented around the turn of the century. The Democrats had some impressive victories; in the first presidential election after Utah statehood in 1896, Democrats earned eighty percent of the presidential vote for William Jennings Bryan and elected many of their own to state, local, and national offices. Democrats also had great successes in the 1910s, in the 1930s with the rise of Franklin D. Roosevelt, and in 1964 with the Lyndon B. Johnson landslide

Source of above: Mormons and politics

Other historical background info of Utah State and Utah Territory:

State politics was reorganized after the 1890 Manifesto discontinuing polygamy was announced, and both the Republican and Democratic party emerged in the state. Many assumed that the traditional ties of many LDS Church leaders to the Democratic party philosophy would make Utah a strong Democratic state. In 1894, however, Republican Frank J. Cannon was elected Utah's delegate in Congress and the Republicans elected 60 members to the Constitutional Convention, a 13-vote majority over the Democratic. [Source for this & below quotes: http://www.media.utah.edu/UHE/d/DEMOCRATIC.html ]

Now keep in mind, this Republican surge was initiated pre-statehood admission. When we look at the actual first post-statehood election in 1896, what do we find?

In the first presidential contest held after achieving statehood in 1896, however, Utah Democrats did well, drawing more than eighty percent of the presidential vote for William Jennings Bryan and electing a variety of Democrats to state and local office as well. That same year, William H. King was elected to Congress and the Democratic legislature selected Joseph L. Rawlins to serve as U. S. Senator. Two years later, the Democrats elected B. H. Roberts to Congress although he was denied his seat because of his practice of plural marriage. Roberts was eventually replaced by William H. King in a special election held in April 1900.

We know that in the Utah state Legislature assuming office that 39 in the Utah House of Reps in 1897 were Democrats, only 3 were Republicans & 3 were Populists. In the state Senate, it was a 17-0 shutout for the Democrats (plus one populist).

By 1900, the parties became balanced, and then the Democrats dropped off for a while in Utah as Republican’s Teddy Roosevelt’s ways carried the national day:

But the Democrats rebounded with the help of the Progressive Party in 1914: In 1914, Utah Democrats allied with the Progressive party to take control of both houses of the Utah legislature as well as many county offices. Two years later, the Democrats scored a major victory garnering the state's electoral votes for Wilson, and electing Simon Bamberger as Governor, William H. King to the U.S. Senate and both representatives in Congress. The state legislature was overwhelmingly Democratic as well.

6 posted on 06/12/2011 5:20:16 PM PDT by Colofornian (I already have a God as my leader. Why do I need ANOTHER one as POTUS?)
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Comment #7 Removed by Moderator

To: Sherman Logan

Reagan could not be Reagan had he been Mormon.


8 posted on 06/12/2011 5:28:41 PM PDT by pennyfarmer (Even a RINO will chew its foot off when caught in a trap.)
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To: Colofornian

I’d prefer a modern mormon president over a muslim president any day.


9 posted on 06/12/2011 5:31:37 PM PDT by This I Wonder32460
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To: Diogenesis

My point was that many freepers REALLY despise Mormonism and Mormons.

If you don’t believe this, I suggest you try reading some of the Mormon-bashing threads. A remarkable number of people seem to believe a theological disagreement in and of itself is sufficient reason to vote against a candidate.

I’m not Mormon or particularly fond of the faith, but I can recognize that those posting such extreme dislike for Mormonism are pretty unlikely to vote for a Mormon president, regardless of his positions and record on other issues.

I never said YOU are among this group, necessarily, only that there are a good many of them out there. IOW, the author referenced in the article is correct. His Mormonism IS a problem for Romney. I don’t this it’s his major problem. But it is still a problem.


10 posted on 06/12/2011 5:34:05 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Colofornian
...the Jesus of Christianity is different than the Jesus of Mormonism despite the marketing being done that calls the Book of Mormon (BoM) “Another Testament of Jesus Christ”. The truth is Mormonism teaches a different God, a different Jesus, and a different Christianity.

That the God and Jesus of Christianity are not the same as the God and Jesus of Mormonism is not merely my opinion but comes from prominent Mormons and is borne out upon examination.

At the 147th General Conference, General Authority Bernard Brockbank (a Mormon) stated:

"the Christ followed by the Mormons is not the Christ followed by traditional Christianity. It is true that many of the Christian Churches worship a different Jesus Christ than is worshiped by the Mormons” The Ensign, May, 1977 pg.26.

In 1998 LDS President Hinckley spoke of claims outside the LDS church that ‘Mormons do not believe in the historical Christ’ and whether or not he regarded the Jesus of Christianity as the same Jesus of Mormonism:

“No, I don’t. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times*. He, together with his Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820 and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more about the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages.” Church News, June 20, 1998. * the term "Dispensation of the Fullness of Times" is used by the Mormon Church to denote "the last days" that Joseph Smith was said to have ushered in.

http://www.freewill-predestination.com/mormon.html
11 posted on 06/12/2011 5:35:22 PM PDT by Proverbs 3-5
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To: Sherman Logan
No doubt many of them would not vote for Romney were he a Baptist. But I also suspect a good many would not have voted for Reagan had he been Mormon.

But...but...voting for Romney just because he is mormon and so is the voter...that's perfectly OK, right?

Reagan has nothing to do with Romney OR mormonism.

12 posted on 06/12/2011 5:40:10 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (My God can't be bribed by money or good works. Romney's can.)
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To: Proverbs 3-5

mega dittoes


13 posted on 06/12/2011 5:43:55 PM PDT by LiteKeeper ("Who is John Galt?")
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To: Sherman Logan

His Mormonism is definitely a problem, especially when he speaks of it and seems to “gloss over” many of it’s anti-mainstream Christian beliefs. When you are part of a religious group that many think is a cult and you aren’t even straight forward with those that you want to vote for you (mainly conservative Christians and Jews), yeah there’s going to be a problem and it’s of Romney’s own making.


14 posted on 06/12/2011 5:44:03 PM PDT by MacMattico
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To: greyfoxx39
But...but...voting for Romney just because he is mormon and so is the voter...that's perfectly OK, right?

Not sure where you get that idea.

There aren't enough Mormons to swing an electoral vote in any states except Utah and possibly Idaho.

There are, however, more Mormons than Jews, and the media is always obsessing about the Jewish vote. Though there seems to be considerable disagreement out there about how to count who is a Mormon and who is a Jew.

15 posted on 06/12/2011 5:47:44 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: MacMattico

Don’t disagree.


16 posted on 06/12/2011 5:49:06 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Diogenesis; Sherman Logan
Most complaints regard Romney's BEHAVIOR.

I can't count how many hundreds of times I've posted comments on Romney's...
...abortion stances & comments/stances on embryos...
...ENDA & homosexual support...
...Same-sex marriage being passed on his watch in MA...
...Bay State Romneycare...
...Romney as board member for Marriott & Marriott as a member of the porn industry -- to the degree that even the DesNews took him to task in '07 on this issue...
...etc.

...Yet here is ALSO a consistent point I've been making: I've make numerous posts that link Romney's wishy-washy stances on many issues (abortion, embryos/stem cells, ENDA, healthcare, etc.) to the reality that Mormon church leadership is also wishy-washy:

Issue examples are...
...Illegal aliens...
...Homosexual rights in Salt Lake City (2009)...
...Abortion exceptions within their church body...
...Blacks as priests (1978)...
...Polygamy (1831 change to override polygamy described as an "abomination" in Book of Mormon; 1890 change, etc.)

Harry Reid told his BYU audience in 2007 when he was speaking to them "I am a Democrat BECAUSE I am a Mormon, not in spite of it."
Source: Reid Gets Warm Reception at BYU

Well, I have a similar point: Mitt Romney's wishy-washy, waffling behavior is in part, BECAUSE he is a Mormon leader who operates in the same "convenient" tradition he has seen so many other Mormon leaders operate in...

All you have to do is to read the Reed Smoot hearings in the early 1900s and you'll see how convenient it was for even the top Lds "prophet" to lie under oath to cover up even his own personal polygamous relationships!

Too many FREEPERS, unknowledgeable about historical and more recent flip-flopping behaviors by Mormon leaders are too quick to de-link Romney's behavior to Mormonism.

It's time some of you FREEPERS get an education in historical Mormonism.

17 posted on 06/12/2011 6:03:28 PM PDT by Colofornian (I already have a God as my leader. Why do I need ANOTHER one as POTUS?)
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To: Sherman Logan
My point was that many freepers REALLY despise Mormonism. and Mormons.
18 posted on 06/12/2011 6:07:21 PM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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Comment #19 Removed by Moderator

To: greyfoxx39
Well, it is OK to vote for a mormon just because they are a mormon.....voting records show 92% of mormons vote for mormons regardless of their political governance. IE Romney and Reid are only two examples.
20 posted on 06/12/2011 6:11:12 PM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: Bean Counter; Colofornian

Since you made the claim please give one example of hate towards mormons by Colofornian.


21 posted on 06/12/2011 6:13:10 PM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: Colofornian

If Romney was a real mormon he wouldn’t be supportive of gay marriage. He wouldn’t be pro-abortion. Even Harry Reid is more pro-life than this guy.


22 posted on 06/12/2011 6:13:31 PM PDT by ari-freedom (All we are saying....is give the military a chance)
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PS: You did get that this particular post is from an lds publication, IE: BYU, right.


23 posted on 06/12/2011 6:16:50 PM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: Colofornian

Harry Reid told his BYU audience in 2007 when he was speaking to them “I am a Democrat BECAUSE I am a Mormon, not in spite of it.”

Hillary could say the same thing about being a Methodist. Jimmy Carter could say the same thing about being a Southern Baptist. Kennedy and Pelosi could say the same thing about being Catholic. Jerry Nadler could say the same thing about being Jewish. If you want to be a liberal then you will find a way to justify it even if it doesn’t make sense.


24 posted on 06/12/2011 6:18:13 PM PDT by ari-freedom (All we are saying....is give the military a chance)
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To: Bean Counter; All; Admin Moderator; Jim Robinson; kristinn; svcw
“The Mormon Question”?? Exactly what the hell is that supposed to mean?? For reference: History of “The Jewish Question”

You're hilarious, Bean Counter.

I only repeated the very headline. Guess where the headline came from, Bean Counter? You think I made it up?

Sorry, this is from BYU Studies...put out by Mormon Brigham Young University. Are you going to get on their case for producing such a headline?

Yes?
Or hypocritically no?

Go back to counting that which you're better at...

25 posted on 06/12/2011 6:19:31 PM PDT by Colofornian (I already have a God as my leader. Why do I need ANOTHER one as POTUS?)
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To: ari-freedom

Romney is a temple worthy mormon, which means he has been deemed by the lds authorities as a mormon in good standing. (Reid also is temple worthy.)


26 posted on 06/12/2011 6:20:18 PM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: proxy_user

Well dangit.

Stole my thundering line.

Dude is looking for his Epstein excuse.


27 posted on 06/12/2011 6:23:23 PM PDT by Vendome ("Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it anyway")
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To: ari-freedom
Hillary could say the same thing about being a Methodist.

Except would the most prestigious Methodist university provide a big platform to make that claim?

Jimmy Carter could say the same thing about being a Southern Baptist.

Carter was Baptist; I'm not sure he was "Southern" Baptist. Even so: What A#1 Baptist university would have given him such a platform to make such a claim?

Kennedy and Pelosi could say the same thing about being Catholic.

Did Notre Dame invite them to make similar claims?

28 posted on 06/12/2011 6:23:36 PM PDT by Colofornian (I already have a God as my leader. Why do I need ANOTHER one as POTUS?)
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To: Colofornian

Romney has already made the move to abandon the conservative Republicans. He is not running the Iowa straw poll and one other early conservative poll. Romney has made statements affirming Romneycare and more recently, global warming. Romney is running as a Massachusetts Republican.

I think that the Republican Party in WA State is setting up to endorse Romney. There are lots of signs, including the fact that he was the key note speaker at our convention last year. Romney said all the right things last year and even cried like Glenn Beck, but this year, he’s already backing off his conservatism.


29 posted on 06/12/2011 6:24:09 PM PDT by Eva
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To: svcw

“...voting records show 92% of mormons vote for mormons regardless of their political governance. IE Romney and Reid are only two examples.

What % of LDS voted for Harry Reid or any other LDS dem against a non-LDS republican? 92%?

Freegards


30 posted on 06/12/2011 6:27:03 PM PDT by Ransomed
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To: Ransomed

I was wrong about the 92% for Romney it was 94%. I had read that 92% of lds voted for Reid but cannot find that reference, all I am finding today is that a majority of lds voted for Reid.
I’ll keep looking. What was stated in what I just read was that they voted for Reid because he was a mormon.


31 posted on 06/12/2011 6:35:05 PM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: Colofornian

Bump for later reading. I’m to tired to get into anything this deep tonight.


32 posted on 06/12/2011 6:39:28 PM PDT by FreeMaine (Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying. Prov 18:19)
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To: Colofornian
Foster presents a good deal of information that most Latter-day Saints will not be well acquainted with, such as the difference between evangelical and fundamentalist Christians, the emergence of the charismatic movement, the rise and fall of the Moral Majority, and the subsequent establishment of the Christian Coalition.

There's a DIFFERENCE?

33 posted on 06/12/2011 6:41:26 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: svcw

Yeah, I found the Romney thing(that’s bad enough), but holy cow, 92% for Reid would be even worse. I guess its possible but LDS REALLY go for the ‘pubs normally, to my understanding, and 92% is a HUGE number.

Freegards


34 posted on 06/12/2011 6:42:17 PM PDT by Ransomed
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To: Colofornian

Romney needs to know the true Jesus. Because if he truely gets to know Him, he’ll repent for supporting teenage girls to be taken out of state without their parents knowldege or permission to get abortions when he was governor of Massachussettes.

That’s asking alot, I know. But clearly, the Mormon god isn’t doing it for him.


35 posted on 06/12/2011 6:43:38 PM PDT by Dogbert41 (I hate posting with ipad:( too many typos!)
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To: Colofornian
Because official Church curriculum does not address in detail the period from about 1850 until World War II or even later, most Mormons are rather uneducated regarding their political past, particularly the theocratic era that prevailed until the Edmunds–Tucker Act precipitated several changes, including the Manifesto in 1890 and the disbanding of the People’s Party in 1891.

They are pretty ignorant about their THEOLOGICAL past as well.

And HISTORICAL past, too!

36 posted on 06/12/2011 6:44:37 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: pennyfarmer
So many things in this world are upside down. I wish we could go back to a time when blacks were republican and mormons were democrats.

The ELECTED ones ARE!!!

37 posted on 06/12/2011 6:47:49 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Sherman Logan
But I also suspect a good many would not have voted for Reagan had he been Mormon.

Isn't SUSPICION wonderful!!

You can say all KINDS of things under it's protective mantra.

38 posted on 06/12/2011 6:49:39 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Colofornian
"Did Notre Dame invite them to make similar claims? "

You mean like they did with Obama?
39 posted on 06/12/2011 6:51:04 PM PDT by ari-freedom (All we are saying....is give the military a chance)
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To: Sherman Logan
My point was that many freepers REALLY despise Mormonism and Mormons.

And I really don't know why this is; for MORMONs are always so loving and kind to others...


Joseph Smith continues: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (, p.270).
 
Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (, p. 119).
 
Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" ( 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" ( 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" ( 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (, vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" ( 10:230).
 
Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (, p. 255).
 
Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (, 18:172).
 
President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (, vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (, 10:127).
James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (, p.182).
 
President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (, vol. 3, p.282).
 
More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (, p.316).
 
President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).
 
President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (, vol. 2, p.196).
 

40 posted on 06/12/2011 6:52:41 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Sherman Logan
I’m not Mormon or particularly fond of the faith, but...

But you manage to show up a lot and try to defend them from their own history that gets posted.

41 posted on 06/12/2011 6:54:01 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie

Oh, there’s many of us here who will defend them against the crap that gets tossed around here. At least one of us will always show up on these threads just so no one will think we all remained silent.


42 posted on 06/12/2011 6:55:32 PM PDT by sand lake bar (This bag may be used as a toy)
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To: Sherman Logan
There aren't enough Mormons to swing an electoral vote in any states except Utah and possibly Idaho.

Nice qualifier you've slipped in here.

If, by some means they can get him to be THE Republican (I didn't say CONSERVATIVE on purpose) candidate, then the sheer volume of dislike for OBAMA would put him in the WH.

Thanks, but no thanks. We'll be sure he gets the same results in THIS primary as he did in the LAST one: he's a LOSER.

43 posted on 06/12/2011 6:59:11 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: sand lake bar

Would you explain what “crap”? Which statements that are made here against mormonISM are in fact crap? You made the claim, state what you are talking about.


44 posted on 06/12/2011 6:59:40 PM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: sand lake bar

When you say crap are you talking about the mormon jesus that is created and not eternal?
When you say crap are you saying the god that was once a man just like us and not the eternal God?
When you say crap are you talking about the celestial marriage?
When you say crap are you talking about becoming gods of your own planet?
When you say crap what are you talking about?


45 posted on 06/12/2011 7:02:23 PM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: Colofornian

A Different God?
_________________________________

Different godsssssssssssss


46 posted on 06/12/2011 7:02:36 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: ari-freedom
You mean like they did with Obama?

Sorry. You gave a false parallel. (Obama's never claimed to be Catholic; nor did he use ND as a platform to make such a claim...try again)

47 posted on 06/12/2011 7:06:44 PM PDT by Colofornian (I already have a God as my leader. Why do I need ANOTHER one as POTUS?)
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To: svcw
Romney is a temple worthy mormon, which means he has been deemed by the lds authorities as a mormon in good standing.

Temple Worthy MORMONS must answer THIS question (found in the TEMPLE RECOMMEND quiz) in the affirmative every year to REMAIN 'worthy:

11 Do your keep the Word of Wisdom?


Now the Word of Wisdom (WoW) is a bunch of do's and don't regarding what GOD has told MORMONs to eat, drink and bathe.

Here it is:

 
THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 89
 
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Kirtland, Ohio, February 27, 1833. HC 1: 327–329. As a consequence of the early brethren using tobacco in their meetings, the Prophet was led to ponder upon the matter; consequently he inquired of the Lord concerning it. This revelation, known as the Word of Wisdom, was the result. The first three verses were originally written as an inspired introduction and description by the Prophet.
 
1–9, Use of wine, strong drinks, tobacco, and hot drinks proscribed; 10–17, Herbs, fruits, flesh, and grain are ordained for the use of man and of animals; 18–21, Obedience to gospel law, including the Word of Wisdom, brings temporal and spiritual blessings.
 
  1 A aWord OF Wisdom, for the benefit of the council of high priests, assembled in Kirtland, and the church, and also the saints in Zion—
  2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the aword of wisdom, showing forth the order and bwill of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—
  3 Given for a principle with apromise, adapted to the capacity of the bweak and the weakest of all csaints, who are or can be called saints.
  4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of aevils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of bconspiring men in the last days, I have cwarned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—
  5 That inasmuch as any man adrinketh bwine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.
  6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, apure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.
  7 And, again, astrong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.
  8 And again, tobacco is not for the abody, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill.
  9 And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly.
  10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome aherbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—
  11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with aprudence and bthanksgiving.
  12 Yea, aflesh also of bbeasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used csparingly;
  13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be aused, only in times of winter, or of cold, or bfamine.
  14 All agrain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;
  15 And athese hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.
  16 All grain is good for the afood of man; as also the bfruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground—
  17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.
  18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, ashall receive bhealth in their navel and marrow to their bones;
  19 And shall afind bwisdom and great ctreasures of dknowledge, even hidden treasures;
  20 And shall arun and not be bweary, and shall walk and not faint.
  21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the adestroying angel shall bpass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.


Didja read the part where MORMONs are NOT supposed to eat MEAT except during cold weather of famine?

Do you wanna know how many FR MORMONs will answer the question whether THEY are following WOW?

Do you think MITT would?

48 posted on 06/12/2011 7:08:02 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Colofornian

If it wasn’t for the Mormons, Prop 8 wouldn’t have passed in California. They were the ones that pushed the issue. They were the ones who the gays protested and ridiculed.


49 posted on 06/12/2011 7:10:19 PM PDT by ari-freedom (All we are saying....is give the military a chance)
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To: sand lake bar
Oh, there’s many of us here who will defend them against the crap that gets tossed around here.

Yup...

But in a courtroom setting, most DEFENSE attournies would actually have some kind of EVIDENCE for the jury to mull over.

Accusing the witnesses of LYING all the time gets mighty old when nothing is produced to back up the claim.

50 posted on 06/12/2011 7:13:05 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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