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Why Should I Study the Old Testament?
Enrichment Journal ^ | J. Birney Dibble

Posted on 06/18/2011 6:47:10 AM PDT by Amerisrael

A few years ago when I was on the mission field, a fellow missionary said, “I don’t find the Old Testament much help in my work. So I seldom read it and have never really studied it.” When he saw my eyebrows go up a few inches, he added, “Look, my call from the Lord was to take Jesus to the people of this country who have never heard of Him.”

Recently, a member of my Bible study said, “I suppose I should know more about the Old Testament, but I don’t really see what it has to do with being a Christian.” When he saw the question in my eyes, he began to list the parts of the Old Testament that were unacceptable to him as a Christian.

Were they right? There are parts of the Bible some see as irrelevant for Christians: Song of Songs, much of Leviticus, Deuteronomy, and Numbers. What about the apocryphal books such as Tobit, Baruch, and Daniel and Susanna (Daniel 13)?

Maybe some in your congregation have questioned the need to study the Old Testament. There are many reasons why we need to not only read the Old Testament but also study it, preferably with the help of a commentary. Here are some reasons that will help you answer their questions.

Because Jesus Did Jesus was a scholar of the Old Testament. When Jesus quoted Scripture, He quoted from the Hebrew Bible (our Old Testament).

In Matthew 4, Jesus was in the desert being tempted by Satan. In verse 4, Jesus resisted Satan’s first temptation by quoting Deuteronomy 8:3. To tempt Jesus the second time, Satan quoted Psalm 91:11,12 (Matthew 4:5–7). Jesus resisted by quoting Deuteronomy 6:16 (Matthew 4:7). Jesus resisted the third temptation by quoting Deuteronomy 6:13,14 (Matthew 4:8–10).

Do you think Jesus made up the Sermon on the Mount? Think again. Jesus clearly had studied the Old Testament and the Talmudic writings. He borrowed extensively from both. In Matthew 5, Jesus may have taken verse 3 from Isaiah 66:2; verse 4 from Isaiah 61:2,3; verse 5 from Psalm 37:11; verse 8 from Psalm 24:3,4; verse 9 from Psalm 34:14; verses 10,11 from Isaiah 51:7,8; verse 12 from 2 Chronicles 36:16; verses 21–26 from Exodus 20:13; Proverbs 10:12; Ecclesiastes 7:9; verse 39 from Proverbs 20:22; verse 43 from Proverbs 25:21. (Jesus also paraphrases the Talmud in at least eight passages.)

Perhaps the scriptural reference that best illustrates the respect Jesus had for the Hebrew Bible is found in John 10:31–38: “Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, … Jesus answered them, ‘Is it not written in your Law, “I have said you are gods”? If he called them “gods,” to whom the word of God came — and the Scripture cannot be broken (my emphasis) — what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, “I am God’s Son”?’ ”

The Disciples Quoted From the Hebrew Bible The disciples’ use of the Old Testament indicates their thorough knowledge of those Scriptures. Here are a few in the Gospel of John:

In 1:45, Philip finds Nathanael and says, “ ‘We have found the one Moses wrote about in the Law, and about whom the prophets also wrote — Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.’ ”

In 2:19, Jesus said “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.” Verse 22 reads, “After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the Scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.”

In chapter 12, Jesus made His triumphant entry into Jerusalem riding on the colt. In verse 16 we read, “At first his disciples did not understand all this. Only after Jesus was glorified did they realize that these things had been written about him and that they had done these things to him.”

In John 19, John made sure his readers would understand all that had happened was written in the prophecies of the Hebrew Bible. Verse 18: “Here they crucified him, and with him two others — one on each side and Jesus in the middle.” Verse 24: “ ‘Let’s not tear it,’ they said to one another. ‘Let’s decide by lot who will get it.’ This happened that the scripture might be fulfilled which said, ‘They divided my garments among them and cast lots for my clothing.’ So this is what the soldiers did.” Verse 28: “Later, knowing that all was now completed, and so that the Scripture would be fulfilled, Jesus said, ‘I am thirsty.’ ” And finally, in verse 36: “These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: ‘Not one of his bones will be broken.’ ”

Paul Knew the Hebrew Bible Paul quoted from the Old Testament many times. In Romans 3 Paul quoted from the Hebrew Bible seven times: verse 4 (Psalms 51:4; 116:11); verses 10–12 (Psalm 14:1,3); verse 13 (Psalm 5:9); verse 14 (Psalm 10:7); verse 15 (Proverbs 1:16); verse 17 (Isaiah 59:7).

In Roman 9 through 12, Paul quoted from the Hebrew Bible 36 times from Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, 1 Kings, Psalms, Proverbs, Isaiah (10 times), Jeremiah, Hosea, Joel, and Malachi.

As Christians, can we do less than study those books from which Paul quoted? If, for example, you are studying Paul’s doctrine of grace superseding the observance of the Law — and you want to study the Law — you need to read Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. The task may seem almost insurmountable because these four books have instructions that are seemingly irrelevant for today’s Christian community. You will need help to understand the Old Testament Law. Consult a commentary to help you through the maze.

We must studythe Law to comprehend the context from which Paul originally quoted. In fact, once you have studied these Old Testament books, you will find it much easier to understand Paul’s doctrine.

To Fully Comprehend Messianic Prophecy

Christians declare that Jesus is the Messiah. But many in Jesus’ time did not believe He was the Messiah. A hard-fought battle raged for centuries: beginning with Jesus himself, then by the disciples, by the first missionaries (Paul, Barnabas, Silas), by leaders in the new churches (Apollos, Timothy, Aquila and Priscilla), eventually by hundreds and then thousands of others. The vast majority of Jews of that time did not accept Jesus as their Messiah. Jews today still await Him.

All too often we passively accept the messianic oracles selected for us by our theologians, pastors, Bible instructors, and parents. We need to respect their judgment, but we also need to investigate these claims for ourselves, studying the prophetic writings to fully understand just what these claims are.

We need to inculcate into our minds a cohesive prophetical background of the 2,500 years that led up to the coming of the Messiah at that particular timein history. We can do this by reading passages other than those selected for us to prove that Jesus was truly the expected Christ. Here is such a list, but with the caveat that they are taken out of context and do not give a true picture of the grand sweep of Messianic prophecy.

Here is a selection of Hebrew Bible oracles quoted in the New Testament. Jesus used many of these as He announced to the disciples and the world that He is the Messiah: Psalm 2:2; 16:8–11; 18:5–7,16,17; 21:1–5; 22:6–18; 49:15; 69:20,21,25,26; 109:3–7; 118:22; 138:7,8; Isaiah 26:19; 50:6; 53:3–5,7,8; Hosea 6:1,2; Micah 5:1–3; Zechariah 9:9,10; 12:10; 13:6,7. There are many others, but this gives you a starting point.

To Understand the Book of Hebrews The writer of Hebrews quotes from the Hebrew Bible at least33 timesto make his points. But those points will be clear only if you know your Hebrew Bible. Two examples:

To understand Hebrews 6 though 8 you need to have a thorough comprehension of the complex relationship between Melchizedek, Abraham, and Jesus. You must turn to Genesis 14:13–20 and Psalm 110 (especially verse 4).

To obtain the proper perspective about Hebrews 7:21, “The Lord has sworn, and he will not change his mind,” turn to the many times God reversed His judgment on His people. One of the earliest examples is when Abraham interceded with God about the destruction of Gomorrah and Sodom in Genesis 18:23–33. Another very early example is Moses’ discussion with God in Exodus 32. A few others are found in 1 Samuel 15:29; Jeremiah 15:6; 18:10; Ezekiel 24:14; Zechariah 8:14,15.

It is not enough to just look up those references. To reach full comprehension, you need to study the context in which these passages occur. To understand the Book of Hebrews you need a thorough knowledge of the Hebrew Bible.

To Understand the Book of Revelation It is difficult enough to grasp the sense of this book even with a knowledge of the Hebrew Bible. Some chapters (e.g. 1,18,19, and 21) are full of Hebrew Bible references that one cannot possibly understand the text without a thorough knowledge of the books John quoted. The classic apocalyptic parts of the Hebrew Bible you need to study in toto are: the Book of Daniel and Isaiah 24–27. There are also references to the coming apocalypse in Ezekiel 38,39, and Zechariah 12–14. A careful study of Daniel and Isaiah will ground you sufficiently to better understand what John is saying in Revelation.

To Extract for Yourself the Wisdom of Proverbs Proverbs are one-liners we can use to order our lives. For many centuries people called the Book of Proverbs “The Wisdom Book,” and for good reason. The wisdom it teaches covers a wide field of human and divine activity, ranging from matters purely secular to most lofty moral and religious truths. Jesus and the apostles often quoted from Proverbs (see John 7:38; Romans 12:20; James 4:6; Luke 14:10).

There are at least three ways to study Proverbs. First, read a chapter a day, consistent with the same day of the month, before or after your regular Bible study. Second, read one proverb a day, type it out on a small piece of paper, and put it somewhere in your house (the TV, fridge, bathroom mirror) where you will see it during the day. Third, simply start at the beginning and read it through to the end.

To Be Enthralled by the Psalms For paeans of praise and poetry, for wisdom, doxologies, and thanksgiving, for echoes of our own cries to the Lord for help, and for prayers that go up to God in words we would use if we had the gift, we turn to the Book of Psalms. There is not another book like it in the whole world — not the Koran, the Upanishads nor the Bhagavid Gita, the Book of Mormon, the sayings of Confucius — not even our own New Testament.

Forty percent of the Hebrew Bible quotes in the New Testament are from the Psalms. Jesus began His ministry when He heard a voice coming out of heaven paraphrasing Psalm 2:7, which reads, “I will proclaim the decree of the Lord: He said to me, ‘You are my Son; today I have become your Father.’ ” Jesus ended His ministry by quoting Psalm 22:1, which reads, “ ‘My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from saving me, so far from the words of my groaning?’ ”

To Learn the History of the Israelites To fully comprehend the coming of Jesus, we must read and study the history of the Jews up to His time. The story of Jesus begins with Abraham, continues through the patriarchs, the Egyptian captivity, the Exodus, the conquest of Canaan under Joshua, the 200 year period of the judges, the beginning of the monarchy under Saul, the glory years of David and Solomon, the breakup of the monarchy into Israel and Judah, the deportations of Israel and Judah to Assyria and Babylon. It continues with the return of the exiles from Babylon, the rebuilding of the Temple in the days of Ezra, Nehemiah, and Habakkuk, the years of Greek rule culminating in the persecution under the Seleucids, and the Maccabean revolt ending with restoration of a free people until the coming of the Romans. For the Greek and Maccabean periods you will need to read at least the First Book of the Maccabees, a book Protestants consider apocryphal but which is historical and will increase your understanding of that era.

To Recognize that in Genesis God Establishes Our Identity, Origins, Purpose, and Destiny In Genesis, Christians find their identity: an anchor for our understanding of the beginning of all things. We find in Genesis our origins: that human life is not an accident but a purposeful creative act of God. We are a common humanity made in the image of God. We learn from Genesis that our lives have a purpose: to live in the company of the Creator as obedient children. Finally, we see in Genesis the first glimmers of our destiny: as God declares that sin and disobedience will not be the final word about mankind — the serpent’s demise is in the making. The Creator’s initial intention for humanity will come full circle when we again walk in unrestrained fellowship with Him.

I recommend you start with Genesis 1:1 — “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. And God said, ‘Let there be light,’ and there was light.” — and finish with the last two verses of Malachi: “See, I will send you the prophet Elijah before that great and dreadful day of the Lord comes. He will turn the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers; or else I will come and strike the land with a curse.”

You might say, “That will take forever.”

No, it won’t; but it will take at least 2 years if you do it right.

At the end of those 2 years you will better understand when Jesus, the disciples, and the letter writers quote the Hebrew Bible.

And, too, I think you will look back and say, “Now, wasn’t that great.”


TOPICS: General Discusssion; History; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: bible; hebrew; study; teaching
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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1 posted on 06/18/2011 6:47:13 AM PDT by Amerisrael
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To: Amerisrael

Wow, the comments at the beginning, scary.

First thing that comes to mind to answer the title question - because no one starts reading a book toward the end. Or to be more specific, it would be absurd to skip the first two thirds of any instruction manual.

Now I’ll read the article...


2 posted on 06/18/2011 7:07:59 AM PDT by agrace
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To: Amerisrael
One imperative reason to study the Old Testament is that it is essential to learn and know the symbolism, prophecy, and parallels with the of book of Revelation and the OT, and the Messianic revelation of Jesus Christ fulfilled in the New Testament and the book of Revelation. In fact, it has been the failure of the church throughout history to properly grasp and understand the book of Revelation simply because they have misinterpreted its meaning.
3 posted on 06/18/2011 7:09:15 AM PDT by bibletruth
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To: Amerisrael
Old and New Testament MP3s - free

I listen on my commute on days when I don't carpool or Rush isn't on.

4 posted on 06/18/2011 7:13:02 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (If Sarah Palin really was unelectable, state-run media would be begging the GOP to nominate her.)
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To: Amerisrael

some very good reasons to do so within here..

http://yadayahweh.com/


5 posted on 06/18/2011 7:14:08 AM PDT by mo ("If you understand, no explanation is needed; if you do not, no explanation is possible")
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To: Amerisrael

Some of my favorite stories in the OT.....the book of Esther, Jacob and Esau, Joseph being betrayed by his brothers, Moses, and in every story, there is a message that is pertinant today.

*God’s eyes are on the righteous, and he delivers them out of all of their troubles.

*He lifts us up and brings us justice, when we are treated unfairly.

*We need to be careful not to deceive others, or we will be deceived.

Old Testament scriptures are excellent reading, and full of wisdom.


6 posted on 06/18/2011 7:15:49 AM PDT by Joyell
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To: Amerisrael

My mother in law has been a member of the Methodist Church all her life. She’s 96. She doesn’t get to church anymore but someone visits her occasionally, sometimes an assistant pastor, a young woman. My MIL delighted in telling me that this woman told her that she doesn’t really use the Bible much or really believe much in it. Sad for both of them.


7 posted on 06/18/2011 7:17:40 AM PDT by Mercat
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To: Amerisrael
The OT prophets, particularly Ezekiel, have forecasts that relate to today's news in a very interesting way.

8 posted on 06/18/2011 7:34:14 AM PDT by Genoa (Starve the beast.)
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To: agrace

Do you listen to the stories of your parents and grandparents? Each story they tell says something about what’s important in their life, how they act, how they react, or what makes them laugh.

The Old Testament is filled with God’s stories — His stories about Himself and His interaction with those whom He loves.

As you read the Bible, do not look at it as a lawyer looks at the law; it is God’s revelation of Himself. Ask yourself, what does this story say about God? Look at the Sovereign, who is in the story, behind the scenes, and tells the story. As you do so, you will get to know Him better and draw nearer to the Lover.


9 posted on 06/18/2011 7:34:16 AM PDT by Qout
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To: Amerisrael

I have NEVER heard a Christian express this sentiment. In the Catholic Church as well as any Evangelical Church I hever been to and including the numberless radio preachers I’ve dialed in over the years the Old Testament is HUGE with respect to illuminating God for the human mind.


10 posted on 06/18/2011 7:34:35 AM PDT by TalBlack ( Evil doesn't have a day job.)
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To: TalBlack
Many mainline Protestant churches (left-wing) are infected with gross biblical ignorance from the pulpit right on down.

11 posted on 06/18/2011 7:37:49 AM PDT by Genoa (Starve the beast.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Cool, thanks!


12 posted on 06/18/2011 7:44:49 AM PDT by ViLaLuz (2 Chronicles 7:14)
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To: Mercat

Unfortunately, as I understand it, most seminary students these days pretty much have to overcome the disbelief of their seminary professors.

It never ceases to amaze me at the truth and wisdom of the Bible, Old and New Testament. I am a Cumberland Presbyterian, and here is part of our view of the Bible:

1.04 God’s words and actions in creation, providence, judgment, and redemption are witnessed to by the covenant community in the scriptures of the Old and New Testaments.

1.05 God inspired persons of the covenant community to write the scriptures. In and through the scriptures God speaks about creation, sin, judgment, salvation, the church and the growth of believers. The scriptures are the infallible rule of faith and practice, the authoritative guide for Christian living.

1.06 God’s word spoken in and through the scriptures should be understood in the light of the birth, life, death, and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth. The authority of the scriptures is founded on the truth contained in them and the voice of God speaking through them.

A Christian minister who doesn’t believe the truth of the Bible lives a lie every day.


13 posted on 06/18/2011 7:48:03 AM PDT by RatRipper (I'll ride a turtle to work every day before I buy anything from Government Motors.)
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To: bibletruth
In fact, it has been the failure of the church throughout history to properly grasp and understand the book of Revelation simply because they have misinterpreted its meaning.

Yeah, that old prankster Paraclete made sure that no one would understand Revelation until Darby, Scofield and that reprobate Lindsey came along! They Futurists exclusive knowledge was so great and perfect that they only came up with thousands upon thousands of false and failed predictions based on this gnosticism of Revelation! That is exactly what Jesus wanted when people read Revelation!

Rev 22:7 "Behold, I am coming quickly! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book."

And the laughs keep on coming. Jesus was playing a prank on thousands of years of martyrs and firm believers who dedicated their lives to knowing our LORD. If these idiots only knew that there was no blessing for them since only the modern Aposostate American Religion that worships God with zip-lines, motorcycles and fireworks during their "worship" services could ever have any understanding of Revelation and experience the Blessing! Ho, ho ho!

Yep, all of those Post Mils, and Classical Pre Mils and A-Mils - yep, hundreds of millions of the Saints of God added to and deleted from Revelation (22:18-19) and are now burning in Hell because, while they believed Christ and many martyred in His Name, the Holy Spirit made sure that they would never understand Revelation fully until the "Left Behind" book series got published.

14 posted on 06/18/2011 7:59:02 AM PDT by The Theophilus (Obama's Key to win 2012: Ban Haloperidol)
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To: TalBlack

“I have NEVER heard a Christian express this sentiment.”

I have.

And once from conservative radio host Laura Ingraham. It came about because they were having a debate discussion about the violent [jihadist] verses in the Koran.

An Islamist apologist on the radio show tried to point out how the Bible, the Hebrew portion, “also” has “similar” violent verses.

Laura Ingraham seemed not to know how to adequately defend against that line of attack on the Bible. Her response was to assert that Christians for the most part just focus on the New Testament.

Sorry, but I do not remember the particular show episode.

The fact of the matter is that when Islamists, or others, try to make that bogus accusation against the Hebrew portion of our Bible, trying to make moral equivalence between the Bible and the Koran, they omit and ignore what the Bible actually says.

For example, time and again God reaffirms to Abraham that He “will not destroy the wicked along with the righteous” in Gen. 18:23-32.

From that we can know that God would not have given an order to Joshua or other Israeli commanders to destroy innocent people.


15 posted on 06/18/2011 8:17:49 AM PDT by Amerisrael
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To: Genoa

Mainline protestant churches are also infected with gross heresies—the most prominant of which is the arian heresy —for which the nicean creed was designed to repudiate.


16 posted on 06/18/2011 8:20:29 AM PDT by ckilmer (Phi)
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To: The Theophilus

A mil post mil pre mil issues are secondary. People can believe whatever they want in this area and remain in the pale of christian orthodoxy. What’s anethma and killing parts of the catholic and protestant churches is the arian heresy.


17 posted on 06/18/2011 8:24:56 AM PDT by ckilmer (Phi)
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To: ckilmer

can you explain in greater detail where you see the arian hersy today and who is teaching it?


18 posted on 06/18/2011 8:31:28 AM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: Amerisrael
The Old Testament is an indispensable part of Sacred Scripture. With God as their author its books are divinely inspired and retain a permanent value, for the Old Covenant has never been revoked.

The Old Testament forms the prologue to the New Testament. Although satisfied by the death and resurrection of Christ, it prepares the way for the New and Everlasting Covenant and provides necessary context for the Gospel. Together with the New Testament it has have been handed on as such to the Church herself for our benefit.

19 posted on 06/18/2011 8:37:43 AM PDT by Natural Law (For God so loved the world He did not send a book.)
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To: The Theophilus

“...that no one would understand Revelation until Darby, Scofield and that reprobate Lindsey came along”

Hal Lindsey, Scofield reprobates?

That kind of rubbish brings to mind the common smear attacks by those who embrace the heretical false teaching of replacement theology:

“While most born-again Christians today are supportive of Israel, there is a growing movement among Evangelicals which is sympathetic to Palestinian suffering and claims to statehood.”

“Yet to provide a biblical basis for their position, they are generally uncomfortable with being identified with classical Replacement heology, due to its malevolent fruit – namely the pogroms, inquisitions and expulsions, right up to the Holocaust”

“So instead, these Christians are turning to the trendy new answer of Fulfillment theology. This is a biblical outlook which does give natural Israel some credit for having been chosen by God for redemptive purposes. But this calling is seen as having been already “fulfilled” with the coming of Christ and the birth of the Church. Thus it ends up at the same place as Replacement theology in concluding that God is finished with Israel, albeit with less inherent hostility toward the Jews”

http://www.thejerusalemconnection.us/columns/2011/04/07/israel-and-fulfillment-theology.html


20 posted on 06/18/2011 8:40:41 AM PDT by Amerisrael
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To: Amerisrael
Why Should I Study the Old Testament?

Because without it, the New Testament is hanging in midair, without context. "Who's this Moses guy?" Law? Sin?

Hebrews, Romans, Galatians? Matthew, who recapitulates Exodus? No sense at all apart from OT background.

Because the history of Israel is the history of the church, under the tutelage of the Law. It is our history, just as much as George Washington and Thomas Jefferson are part of the history of a Vietnamese boat people refugee who has become a US citizen.

Because without it, this would make no sense:

Let not the foreigner who has joined himself to the LORD say, “The LORD will surely separate me from his people”; and let not the eunuch say, “Behold, I am a dry tree.”
4 For thus says the LORD: “To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths, who choose the things that please me and hold fast my covenant,
5 I will give in my house and within my walls a monument and a name better than sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name that shall not be cut off.
6 “And the foreigners who join themselves to the LORD, to minister to him, to love the name of the LORD, and to be his servants, everyone who keeps the Sabbath and does not profane it, and holds fast my covenant—
7 these I will bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer; their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples.”
8 The Lord GOD, who gathers the outcasts of Israel, declares, “I will gather yet others to him besides those already gathered.”

21 posted on 06/18/2011 8:43:03 AM PDT by Lee N. Field ("And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise" Gal 3:29)
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To: Lee N. Field

“Because the history of Israel is the history of the church,”

False.

That smacks of heretical “replacement”, or “fullfilment” theology.

Recomended reading:
http://www.thejerusalemconnection.us/columns/2011/04/07/israel-and-fulfillment-theology.html


22 posted on 06/18/2011 8:58:31 AM PDT by Amerisrael
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To: Lee N. Field

“Let not the foreigner who has joined himself to the LORD say, “The LORD will surely separate me from his people”; and let not the eunuch say, “Behold, I am a dry tree.”
4 For thus says the LORD: “To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths, who choose the things that please me and hold fast my covenant,
5 I will give in my house and within my walls a monument and a name better than sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name that shall not be cut off.
6 “And the foreigners who join themselves to the LORD, to minister to him, to love the name of the LORD, and to be his servants, everyone who keeps the Sabbath and does not profane it, and holds fast my covenant—
7 these I will bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer; their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples.”
8 The Lord GOD, who gathers the outcasts of Israel, declares, “I will gather yet others to him besides those already gathered.”

Those verses have nothing to do with the church, but with the “strangers”, or “foreigners” such as “Rachel the harlot”, who chose to acknowledge and live for the God of Israel.

Do not try to read the “church” into that.


23 posted on 06/18/2011 9:05:28 AM PDT by Amerisrael
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To: Amerisrael

That is kind of like saying that he should study Martin Luther or Pope John because they are more relevant than some hick from 2000 years ago.

Maybe he should study the TV ministers since they are more relevant to today’s views on religion.


24 posted on 06/18/2011 9:25:04 AM PDT by jongaltsr (It)
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To: Amerisrael

It’s just not possible to fully understand the New Testament without understanding the Old Testament, particularly the prophetic, but not just that. Those believing Christians who have studied and understood the Old Testament will seldom fall prey to so many modern mistaken beliefs, even heresies and cults. It’s a cohesive unit, a wholistic set of scripture that confirms scripture throughout, from Old to New.

The Law and the fulfillment of it. Alpha and Omega, beginning and end. The first Adam who fell through sin, the Second Adam who rose and defeated the death and sin entered into Creation via the First. The first coming for the Gentiles, the second coming for the Jews, a king ruling over the nations with a rod of iron. Restoration of all Creation, which groans in anticipation of the coming of the Son of God. The Old Testament and the New. Sense a pattern there?

It’s prophetic fulfillment, of prophecy that goes back before the New, you’ll never understand it at all without understanding the Old.


25 posted on 06/18/2011 9:41:42 AM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: Amerisrael; Lee N. Field

what LNF posted was standard Christian belief, orthodox, historical and biblical. absolutely nothing “heretical” about it. who are the promises made to Abraham for, believers or a certain ethnic group?


26 posted on 06/18/2011 9:44:06 AM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: RegulatorCountry

“the second coming for the Jews”?

the second and final coming will be for the Church and then Judgement Day.


27 posted on 06/18/2011 9:47:08 AM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

Look at the prophesied Mossiach and then look at Revelation prophecy. That is what I mean. The body of believers, the Church, will be removed. I certainly do not believe we’ll all be wisked away and not experience tribulation at all. I’m prepared for very hard times, should it come to that in my time. But, there is a rapture. Even your church believes it, oLofob. It’s just a debate over the when, not the if.


28 posted on 06/18/2011 9:51:51 AM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: Amerisrael
Why Should I Study the Old Testament?

Dude, it's the missing manual for your operating system.

Many fewer system crashes, viruses and trojans after you figure it out.

29 posted on 06/18/2011 9:54:33 AM PDT by Jim Noble (The Constitution is overthrown. The Revolution is betrayed.)
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To: RegulatorCountry

absolutely there will be a rapture for believers, there just isn’t going to be a literal 7 year tribulation period, rebuilt temple in Jerusalem, etc. the Bible is clear the end times will be marked by a falling away from the faith, to such an extent Jesus asked if he’d find faith on the earth when he returned. when we see the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place...the holy place today is the Church, not some rebuilt temple. the tribulation will be spiritual, as all the armies gather against Jerusalem, the Church. the other characteristic of the end will be the increase of sin and immorality, this we are witnessing every day. the devil, who was bound at the cross, is being or has been loosed for a season, and it shows. don’t get caught up in the false teaching that every time the Bible mentions “Israel” it’s referring to the Jews. remember “all Israel will be saved” who is saved? all those “in Christ”. the two witnesses ( the Church ) are either dead or will be dead shortly and boy, will the world rejoice!! don’t get caught up with false 19th century novel theories!


30 posted on 06/18/2011 10:05:30 AM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: Amerisrael

-All scripture is about Jesus. He said so several times.
-All Scripture is profitable.


31 posted on 06/18/2011 10:09:58 AM PDT by Gamecock (It's not eat drink and be merry because tommow we die, but rather because yesterday we were dead.)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

They’re not 19th century novel theories, oLofob. The belief goes right back to the early Church fathers. Speaking of going back, God does not go back on His Word. He has a covenant with the Jews pertaining specifically to a geographic place, and that place is Israel. The Roman Catholic Church is not Israel. Neither is my church, nor is any other. Israel is Israel. The Bible makes this clear. You’re espousing pernicious replacement theology, the theology of pogroms and ovens. Shed it quickly, it’s a very spiritually damaging thing to believe as a professing Christian.


32 posted on 06/18/2011 10:13:09 AM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: Qout

I’m sorry, did you mistake me for someone who doesn’t believe the OT has value? Quite the opposite was my point.


33 posted on 06/18/2011 10:18:01 AM PDT by agrace
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To: Joyell

I so agree with you. The Old Testament is rich with relevant messages for today. I was stunned to find so much wisdom in it after asking God into my life. It took a bit to understand some of it but as a friend of mine told me, “Context, context, context.”

Good article. A keeper.


34 posted on 06/18/2011 10:20:25 AM PDT by Ladysmith ("There is no right that allows one person to place a burden on another." - Quinn)
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To: RegulatorCountry

wrong on so many levels. no church father taught the pre-trib rapture theory, please provide proof if you have some.
God absolutely does Not go back on His word, we agree. God is finished with corporate Israel, Jesus has cursed the fig tree. God is worried about spiritual Israel, which is The Church. this Church is comprised of Jew and Gentile alike.
“so all Israel will be saved” who is Israel? stop with the oven talk, Jews and Gentiles are both sinners in the eyes of God, seperated from Him by sin and must be reconciled to God thru His Son, Jesus Christ. do you believe this? Jesus said to the Jews in John 8, that unless they believe He was sent from the Father, they would die in their sins. how can that be, isn’t “all Israel will be saved”?


35 posted on 06/18/2011 10:27:12 AM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: Amerisrael

ping


36 posted on 06/18/2011 10:37:17 AM PDT by rogue yam
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To: RegulatorCountry

Agreed.


37 posted on 06/18/2011 10:43:36 AM PDT by Amerisrael
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
wrong on so many levels. no church father taught the pre-trib rapture theory, please provide proof if you have some.

If you had understood what I'd written, you'd have realized that I did not advocate any so-called "pre-trib" rapture. What I wrote is indicative of the historical premillennialist view, which was held by the majority of Christians in the first 300 years of Christianity, as found in the writings of Irenaeus, Justin Martyr, Tertullian, Hippolytus, Methodius, Commodianus, and Lactanitus.

Just as I don't know when the second coming of Jesus Christ will occur, I don't pretend to know when the rapture will occur either, other than to say that the rapture occurs after the anti-Christ appears and tribulation begins. Jesus himself indicated this in the Olivet Discourse.

The state religion of Rome embraced amillennialism in 431 at the Council of Ephesus, wherein the even-then historical premillennialism of the majority of Christians during the first 300 years of Chrisitanity, along with the writings of Irenaeus, Justin Martyr, Tertullian et. al. on the subject were rejected, declared heretical and successfully suppressed until the 16th century and the advent of the Protestant Reformers, many of whom themselves continued to embrace amillennialism, but not all, oLofob.

Amillennialism and replacement theology go hand in hand, and yes, it is a pernicious theology, one that has led to pogroms and certainly didn't stand in the way of ovens.

38 posted on 06/18/2011 12:39:53 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: Amerisrael
“I don’t find the Old Testament much help in my work. So I seldom read it and have never really studied it.”
There are to many that are ignorant to the fact that the SCRIPTURES testify of HIM (Yeshua)

This is how all the tares such as replacement theology have crept in.

There are to many who are ignorant as to why God chose the nation of Israel and set them apart to begin with .

The saddest part of all is that there are so many in the world who know just exactly who Yeshua is and yet they do NOT know HIM .
39 posted on 06/18/2011 12:53:05 PM PDT by Lera
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To: RegulatorCountry
other than to say that the rapture occurs after the anti-Christ appears and tribulation begins. Jesus himself indicated this in the Olivet Discourse.

Where in Matt 24 is the rapture?

40 posted on 06/18/2011 12:58:47 PM PDT by dartuser ("Dealing with preterists is like cleaning the litter box ... but at least none of the cats are big.")
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To: Amerisrael
Hal Lindsey, Scofield reprobates?

Lindsey clearly is. As far as Scofield, his "fruits" are more obscure, and that is why I didn't call him reprobate.

That kind of rubbish brings to mind the common smear attacks by those who embrace the heretical false teaching of replacement theology:

The only people who engage in any form of "Replacement Theology" are the Dispensationalists who keep replacing the intended recipient of the promises with themselves (eg. Jer 29:11; Josh 24:15 and many others). BTW, "Replacement Theology" is a common mindless smear attack, made in the usual ignorance and malice typical of the Futurist Cabal against anyone and everyone who doesn't share their brand of "heretical false teachings" which is Dispensationalism. And I seriously doubt you can even define "Replacement Theology" that is why its one of your groups favorite insult to hurl at Christians, because you can make it mean anything you want (like your theology).

Its the Dispensationalist who blasphemes God by saying that our LORD's sacrifice on the cross was not good enough and that for one thousand years Jesus Christ is going to be making perpetual blood animal sacrifices to Himself in a cage within a revived human built Temple that He declared Defiled and ordered destroyed. So don't lecture us about "heretical false teachings" you folks own that category.

Its the Dispensationalist who fantasizes about the future slaughter of 2/3rds of the world's Jews and like John Hagee feels that Jews can be saved under the Law and thus refuses to evangelize the Jews. You folks don't even know the Gospel, and rebel against our LORD's command to preach the Gospel to every person under heaven.

Its the Dispensationalist who has no love for the Church and thus denies the Church its place grafted into the tree of Abraham.

Its the Dispensationalist who hates God's Kingdom and denies that it is in effect, while also fantasizing about how Jesus Christ will be profaned ruling temporarily in a earthly Kingdom filled with reprobates and losers to "rule with a rod of Iron" that apparently is so weak that He can't resist them eventually overthrowing His Kingdom.

41 posted on 06/18/2011 1:01:17 PM PDT by The Theophilus (Obama's Key to win 2012: Ban Haloperidol)
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To: RegulatorCountry

the council of ephasus in 431 did none of the things you mentioned. pre-millennialsim was not on the agenda at all, and Ireneaeus and Justin Martyr were not declared to be heretics. Where are you getting this nonsense from? the statement that premill was successfully suppressed until the 16th century sure would be news to Joachim of Fiore.
the Kingdom of God is in existence today, and the King is named Jesus. He rules spiritually from Jerusalem, which is The Church.


42 posted on 06/18/2011 1:09:12 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: Amerisrael

One needs to read both the OT and the NT. I look on them as salvation history not future forecasting tools of end times reserved to the Father.


43 posted on 06/18/2011 1:10:38 PM PDT by ex-snook ("Above all things, truth beareth away the victory")
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

“The only people who engage in any form of “Replacement Theology” are the Dispensationalists who keep replacing the intended recipient of the promises with themselves”

More rubbish.


44 posted on 06/18/2011 1:13:43 PM PDT by Amerisrael
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To: Amerisrael; The Theophilus

i think you meant to respond to TT. i agree with TT’s post 100%, he said it better than i ever could have.


45 posted on 06/18/2011 1:22:18 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: dartuser

Look to Luke’s account of the Olivet Discourse in Luke 21.


46 posted on 06/18/2011 1:24:13 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: ckilmer
What’s anethma and killing parts of the catholic and protestant churches is the arian heresy.

Other than Mormons, I don't know anyone who embraces that idea - and we all can agree Mormons are not "in the pale of Christian orthodoxy".

What sort of people are you running with where you see this is a larger problem than the American Religion?

47 posted on 06/18/2011 1:32:36 PM PDT by The Theophilus (Obama's Key to win 2012: Ban Haloperidol)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism; Amerisrael
what LNF posted was standard Christian belief, orthodox, historical and biblical. absolutely nothing “heretical” about it. who are the promises made to Abraham for, believers or a certain ethnic group?

"He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well, and to make him the father of the circumcised who are not merely circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.

and again

"so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith. To give a human example, brothers: even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified. Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, 'And to offsprings,' referring to many, but referring to one, 'And to your offspring,' who is Christ."

Either, the New Testament tells us how to interpret the Old, or, the Old Testament has a different message for the Jew and for the Christian.

48 posted on 06/18/2011 1:48:18 PM PDT by Lee N. Field ("And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise" Gal 3:29)
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To: Lee N. Field; Amerisrael

which makes all Christians ( Jew and Gentile alike ) heirs to the promises since we are “in Christ”.

thanks for posting.


49 posted on 06/18/2011 2:00:56 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

You rely too much upon Svigel, oLofob. You’re also relying too much upon cute word games, much as you did while strongly condemning “pre-trib” rapture, as if I’d said a word about it, when I had done no such thing.


50 posted on 06/18/2011 2:08:33 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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