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Some Methodist clergy defy gay marriage ban
AP via SFGate ^ | 6/19/11 | DINESH RAMDE, Associated Press

Posted on 06/19/2011 2:42:53 PM PDT by SmithL

MILWAUKEE (AP) --

A growing number of pastors in the United Methodist Church say they're no longer willing to obey a church rule that prohibits them from officiating at same-sex marriages, despite the potential threat of being disciplined or dismissed from the church.

In some parts of the U.S., Methodist pastors have been marrying same-sex couples or conducting blessing ceremonies for same-sex unions for years with little fanfare and no backlash from the denomination. Calls to overturn the rule have become increasingly vocal in recent weeks, ratcheting up the pressure for the Methodist church to join other mainline Protestant denominations that have become more accepting of openly gay leaders.

While trials of pastors who conduct same-gender ceremonies have only occurred once every several years, the threat is indeed real: The Rev. Amy DeLong of Osceola in western Wisconsin faces a three-day trial starting Tuesday on two charges: violating a church prohibition on the ordination of "self-avowed practicing homosexuals" and marrying a lesbian couple.

(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...


TOPICS: Current Events; Mainline Protestant; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: homosexualagenda; methodist

In this June 16, 2011 photo, Rev. Amy DeLong sits at her home, in Osceola, Wis. While trials of pastors who conduct same-gender ceremonies have only occurred once every several years, the threat is indeed real: DeLong faces a three-day trial starting Tuesday, June 21, 2011, on two charges: violating a church prohibition on the ordination of "self-avowed practicing homosexuals" and marrying a lesbian couple.
1 posted on 06/19/2011 2:42:54 PM PDT by SmithL
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To: SmithL

Guilty. Defrock him.


2 posted on 06/19/2011 2:47:59 PM PDT by Rapscallion (Obama is a foreigner. He occupies the office fraudulently. His SSN belongs to another person.)
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To: SmithL

Guilty. Defrock him.


3 posted on 06/19/2011 2:48:06 PM PDT by Rapscallion (Obama is a foreigner. He occupies the office fraudulently. His SSN belongs to another person.)
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To: SmithL

Guilty. Defrock him.


4 posted on 06/19/2011 2:48:14 PM PDT by Rapscallion (Obama is a foreigner. He occupies the office fraudulently. His SSN belongs to another person.)
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To: SmithL

Guilty. Defrock him.


5 posted on 06/19/2011 2:48:54 PM PDT by Rapscallion (Obama is a foreigner. He occupies the office fraudulently. His SSN belongs to another person.)
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To: SmithL

Guilty. Defrock him.


6 posted on 06/19/2011 2:49:06 PM PDT by Rapscallion (Obama is a foreigner. He occupies the office fraudulently. His SSN belongs to another person.)
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To: SmithL; Elendur; it_ürür; Bockscar; Mary Kochan; Bed_Zeppelin; YellowRoseofTx; Rashputin; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.


7 posted on 06/19/2011 2:49:49 PM PDT by narses ("Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions." Chesterton)
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To: SmithL
1 Corinthians 6:9-10.... 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
8 posted on 06/19/2011 3:00:26 PM PDT by NoGrayZone ("Islamophobia: The irrational fear of being beheaded.")
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To: SmithL
1 Corinthians 6:9-10.... 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
9 posted on 06/19/2011 3:00:26 PM PDT by NoGrayZone ("Islamophobia: The irrational fear of being beheaded.")
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To: SmithL

The UMC General Conference is next June in Tampa. The issues of gay marriage and ordaining gay Pastors will surely come up.

I pray that we vote to “continue studying” the issue for another four years.


10 posted on 06/19/2011 3:02:18 PM PDT by Bryanw92 (We don't need to win elections. We need to win a revolution.)
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To: NoGrayZone

>> nor homosexuals,[a]

I’m curious...what’s the [a] footnote say in your Bible?


11 posted on 06/19/2011 3:04:10 PM PDT by Bryanw92 (We don't need to win elections. We need to win a revolution.)
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To: Bryanw92
I’m curious...what’s the [a] footnote say in your Bible?

Made in China

12 posted on 06/19/2011 3:13:20 PM PDT by Last Dakotan
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To: Bryanw92

Footnotes:

1. 1 Corinthians 6:9 That is, catamites


13 posted on 06/19/2011 3:21:01 PM PDT by NoGrayZone ("Islamophobia: The irrational fear of being beheaded.")
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Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

To: SmithL
. . . a church rule that prohibits them from officiating at same-sex marriages

I guess violating this rule makes sense . . . if the "minister" also officiates at ceremonies celebrating murder, theft, adultery, dishonoring one's own parents, and those who hate their neighbors. What I don't understand is why someone who either doesn't believe in God, or believes but doesn't think that belief means one has to obey God, would bother with a career in ministry.

15 posted on 06/19/2011 5:57:25 PM PDT by Pollster1 (Natural born citizen of the USA, with the birth certificate to prove it)
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To: Pollster1

Satan is working overtime to destroy the Church. He has the world already and is using it to destroy the church. People have been lured away from the foundations of their faith. Sad, but the homo-activists will split the UMC just as they have the Episcopals and Lutherans, and is also working on the PCUSA.


16 posted on 06/19/2011 7:13:01 PM PDT by WVNan
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To: Bryanw92
...what's the [a] footnote say in your bible?

Why do you ask?

17 posted on 06/19/2011 8:25:55 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True Supporters of our Troops PRAY for their VICTORY!)
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To: Bryanw92
I pray that we vote to “continue studying” the issue for another four years.

If your Church sect is studying this issue in any way, you've already lost.

18 posted on 06/19/2011 9:38:57 PM PDT by fwdude (Prosser wins, Goonions lose.)
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Comment #19 Removed by Moderator

To: Rapscallion; xzins; paladin1_dcs
In some parts of the U.S., Methodist pastors have been marrying same-sex couples or conducting blessing ceremonies for same-sex unions for years with little fanfare and no backlash from the denomination. Calls to overturn the rule have become increasingly vocal in recent weeks, ratcheting up the pressure for the Methodist church to join other mainline Protestant denominations that have become more accepting of openly gay leaders.

This is crazy and looking at the picture of the, ahem, lady in post 1 makes me think that saying no to women pastoresses is the right approach, not because of that little step in itself but for where it leads to.

20 posted on 06/20/2011 6:11:23 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrząszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego słynie.)
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To: Last Dakotan

that was funny :)


21 posted on 06/20/2011 6:11:46 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrząszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego słynie.)
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To: Cronos

pastoresses

pastorettes

:>)


22 posted on 06/20/2011 9:17:26 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True Supporters of our Troops PRAY for their VICTORY!)
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To: Cronos

Seems everything I flip over nowadays says that.


23 posted on 06/20/2011 9:20:24 AM PDT by Last Dakotan
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To: xzins

Because I was curious. I saw the footnote in his quote and wanted to know what it said. I could have gone to my study bible and looked it up, but I was too lazy.

Don’t worry. It wasn’t some pro-homosexual agenda “gotcha”.


24 posted on 06/20/2011 2:25:55 PM PDT by Bryanw92 (We don't need to win elections. We need to win a revolution.)
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To: Cronos
saying no to women pastoresses is the right approach,

I have seen, and agree with, the theological reasons for ordaining only men.

I note, however, that for me the most persuasive practical reason for not ordaining women is that the women who most loudly clamour for ordination to ministry are manifestly unfit for it.

This lovely lesbian would seem to be "Exhibit A".

25 posted on 06/20/2011 2:30:43 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: fwdude

>>If your Church sect is studying this issue in any way, you’ve already lost.

UMC General Conference is every 4 years. They’ve voted to study the issue 5 times. I fear that there will not be a sixth vote to “study”. If they vote to allow gays in the clergy, then you’re right—we have lost and they will lose me.


26 posted on 06/20/2011 2:37:46 PM PDT by Bryanw92 (We don't need to win elections. We need to win a revolution.)
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To: Bryanw92
If they vote to allow gays in the clergy, then you’re right—we have lost and they will lose me.

You misunderstood me. That the discussion of whether or not to allow homosexuals to practice their sin with church affirmation is on the table, and that they're actually voting on it, means you've already lost. The fact that the UMC has already voted 5 times on this over a couple of decades means that it's a rotting corpse.

27 posted on 06/20/2011 2:48:48 PM PDT by fwdude (Prosser wins, Goonions lose.)
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To: fwdude

Our tradition requires votes on everything. The fact that it keeps losing is meaningful. The people have to really be against something for it to fail 5 times in a row.


28 posted on 06/20/2011 3:00:51 PM PDT by Bryanw92 (We don't need to win elections. We need to win a revolution.)
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To: Rapscallion

That’s not a him. That’s a dyke.


29 posted on 06/20/2011 3:07:51 PM PDT by WashingtonSource
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To: Bryanw92
Our tradition requires votes on everything.

If everything is negotiable in their version of Christianity, then you owe it to yourself to turn and run. Fast. And don't look back.

30 posted on 06/20/2011 4:32:28 PM PDT by fwdude (Prosser wins, Goonions lose.)
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To: fwdude

>>If everything is negotiable in their version of Christianity

In my years as a Methodist, the teachings of Christianity have been very consistent and very uniform from congregation to congregation but we do tend to give more weight to the words in red than the epistles.

But, as I said earlier, if they vote to ordain homosexuals, I will leave. I’ll be looking for a church that is 100% correct about scripture and always has been. What denomination are you?


31 posted on 06/20/2011 6:59:16 PM PDT by Bryanw92 (We don't need to win elections. We need to win a revolution.)
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To: Cronos
This is crazy and looking at the picture of the, ahem, lady in post 1 makes me think that saying no to women pastoresses is the right approach, not because of that little step in itself but for where it leads to.

While I naturally agree that this pastoress should never have been ordained, it is interesting to see just exactly how depraved some of the Reformation Churches have become. While I may agree with a good portion of the theory behind their Theology, such as salvation by Grace through Faith, the fruits that they have born have effectively destroyed their witness. The root of the issue can be directly traced back to their rejection of Holy Scripture as the source for final authority in a Believer's life.

I believe it to be a case where the Reformation Churches, in a desire to remove as much of the questionable rituals and abuses of power of the Roman Catholic Church as possible, threw the baby out with the bathwater by rejecting not only the authority of the Church in a Believer's life, but also the authority of the Holy Scriptures. Now I'll grant you that it didn't happen right away, but the underlying attitude of liberty at all costs eventually led to licentiousness and we all know where that leads eventually.

32 posted on 06/21/2011 6:55:54 AM PDT by paladin1_dcs (Voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil.)
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To: paladin1_dcs
I think the gay problem started fairly recently. I personally think that it started with letting in pastoresses. This lead one thing to another and eventually to this.

No comments on the other details :) because I see this issue as not a "ooh, lookit the slimey ....." rather as a Christian problem affecting me too -- the media don't really care about our differences, to them we are just standing in the way of the nice, happy gay folks just getting married.

33 posted on 06/21/2011 6:58:43 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrząszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego słynie.)
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To: Bryanw92
Our tradition requires votes on everything.

Not to put too sharp of a point on it, but how can they vote on anything in the Scriptures? You're Church didn't acquire Salvation on it's own, so why do they now presume to either accept or reject parts of the teachings that come with it?

Christianity isn't a democracy, despite what most Christians seem to think. It's a monarchy and while our Regent is not physically with us at this time, He left explicit instructions on how our daily lives were to be lived and how the government of His Kingdom was to operate. His subjects voting to either accept or reject His laws will not go over well.

I understand that you are trying to hold the line, so to speak, but even the very act of voting on accepting or rejecting portions of Scriptures can be seen as sedition against Christ.

34 posted on 06/21/2011 7:05:22 AM PDT by paladin1_dcs (Voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil.)
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To: Cronos
I think the gay problem started fairly recently. I personally think that it started with letting in pastoresses. This lead one thing to another and eventually to this.

While I agree that the Sodomite problem started recently, you hit the nail on the head when you stated that this was a case of one thing leading to another. No matter how well intentioned, we should not and cannot accept any deviation from what Scripture lays out for us as acceptable. To do otherwise is courting disaster.

No comments on the other details :) because I see this issue as not a "ooh, lookit the slimey ....." rather as a Christian problem affecting me too -- the media don't really care about our differences, to them we are just standing in the way of the nice, happy gay folks just getting married.

I agree, this isn't a matter of "bash the sodomite", this is a matter of remaining salt and light to the world. If we're no different than the world we live in, then we deserve to have our candle removed. I could care less about what the media thinks or tries to portray, we all know that we won't get fair cover from those who are a part of this world, but I do care that we remain faithful to our commission, which is to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ without fail and without error. As Scripture states, one plants while another waters, but God gives the increase.

35 posted on 06/21/2011 7:16:45 AM PDT by paladin1_dcs (Voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil.)
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To: paladin1_dcs

Also, I meant that we should not see this as just a “Methodist problem” — but one affecting each of us.


36 posted on 06/21/2011 7:27:48 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrząszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego słynie.)
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To: Cronos
Also, I meant that we should not see this as just a “Methodist problem” — but one affecting each of us.

Absolutely, I in no way think of this as just a "Methodist Problem", just like I don't think of the Priest abuse scandals as a "Catholic Problem" or Jessee Duplantis as a "Pentecostal Problem". I see them as Christian problems with a central core theme. False teachers have infiltrated the Body.

37 posted on 06/21/2011 7:53:52 AM PDT by paladin1_dcs (Voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil.)
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To: paladin1_dcs

>>I understand that you are trying to hold the line, so to speak, but even the very act of voting on accepting or rejecting portions of Scriptures can be seen as sedition against Christ.

I agree with you. There are certain liberal factions in the UMC that would send us straight to Hell if that’s what it took to follow the liberal/progressive agenda. They can bring an issue to a vote and the rest of us can say “No” through our votes.

I would defect and go across the street to become a Southern Baptist, except that there are some interpretations of scripture and doctrines in that church that I do not agree with. As things stand right now, I am a United Methodist in my service to Christ. If they decide to become apostates, I will take my bible and leave. If I am told something that doesn’t smell right in my church, I do the research in a bible (checking a couple different translations to be sure) and decide if it is good and scripturally based. My pastor tells me that I’m 80% Baptist and I only stay a Methodist because I like to argue theology. He’s probably more right than wrong on this. He and I are well aware of my spiritual gifts and he respects my arguments and the conclusions I draw from my studies.


38 posted on 06/21/2011 6:17:39 PM PDT by Bryanw92 (We don't need to win elections. We need to win a revolution.)
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To: paladin1_dcs

Agreed — even the JD bit :) — the media uses that to portray all Christians in that manner. Well, stereotypes work very easily — for example, the image of America in most of the world, thanks to American serials is a place where everyone sleeps with everyone and parties all night and day and works in a hospital or lawyers office after that.


39 posted on 06/21/2011 11:50:59 PM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrząszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego słynie.)
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To: Bryanw92; Cronos
I agree with you. There are certain liberal factions in the UMC that would send us straight to Hell if that’s what it took to follow the liberal/progressive agenda. They can bring an issue to a vote and the rest of us can say “No” through our votes.

After looking at my post, I came off the wrong way in it. I don't mean to not vote at all, just that when they do vote, the proper response is to do just exactly what you've been doing and vote "NO". My preference would be that the issue not be brought to a vote at all, as it's cut and dried in Scripture, but since the Church elders are going to bring it up, the historic understanding of the text needs to be defended. That you have done so is a great credit to you, as you have helped hold true to God's word.

I would defect and go across the street to become a Southern Baptist, except that there are some interpretations of scripture and doctrines in that church that I do not agree with. As things stand right now, I am a United Methodist in my service to Christ. If they decide to become apostates, I will take my bible and leave. If I am told something that doesn’t smell right in my church, I do the research in a bible (checking a couple different translations to be sure) and decide if it is good and scripturally based. My pastor tells me that I’m 80% Baptist and I only stay a Methodist because I like to argue theology. He’s probably more right than wrong on this. He and I are well aware of my spiritual gifts and he respects my arguments and the conclusions I draw from my studies.

It appears that you've given this extensive thought already, so I won't insult your intelligence, but I say that while I also agree with about 80-85% of Southern Baptist Doctrine, I'm not completely sold on their views either and have since found a home in an unaffiliated Fundamentalist Church. While I hope that you don't have to resort to abandoning your home Church completely because it became apostate, if that becomes a recourse of last resort let me know so I can put you on the prayer list here. We've got dark days ahead of us and we've got to stick together, no matter what the denomination.

40 posted on 06/22/2011 7:01:22 AM PDT by paladin1_dcs (Voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil.)
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To: paladin1_dcs; Bryanw92
Bryanw92; My pastor tells me that I’m 80% Baptist and I only stay a Methodist because I like to argue theology

I don't understand this -- Baptists do argue too..

41 posted on 06/22/2011 7:09:47 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrząszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego słynie.)
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To: Cronos
Agreed — even the JD bit :) — the media uses that to portray all Christians in that manner. Well, stereotypes work very easily — for example, the image of America in most of the world, thanks to American serials is a place where everyone sleeps with everyone and parties all night and day and works in a hospital or lawyers office after that.

The problem is that stereotypes all have a kernel of truth to them, otherwise they wouldn't work. The example you gave, while obviously overblown and stereotypical, has a large portion of truth in it due to the fact that we, as a people, have idolized profit and pleasure over everything else. While there are a few who don't sleep around now, the numbers of those who do are much, much higher than in the past. The same can be said for the bit about the all-night parties and no one here can deny the fact that Americans have become obsessed with amassing wealth and advancing their careers, often at the expense of others, so while the stereotype may be laughable in one respect, it's a nervous laugh because it's striking a little too close to home.

The same can be said for how the media portrays Christians. We're portrayed as either money-hungry con men, out to pillage the earnings of retired grandmothers or we're portrayed as hypocritical, bigoted sheep who believe anything that the child molesting priest tells us to believe. While I don't ever expect the media to give us a fair shake in their coverage, the sad part is that there are problems in our Churches which give them ammunition for these stories. No one here needs to be reminded about the televangelist scandals of the 80's and 90's or the priest abuse scandals now, but the real problem is that these scandals are just the groundwork for the next big "scandal" which will be the split over the acceptance of sodomites within the Church. Those of us who hold to Scripture as being authoritative on the matter will be held up as akin to those who resisted equality for blacks in America. It doesn't matter that Scripture is on our side, the groundwork has already been laid to ignore it because of the earlier scandals which came about due to false teachings and sin in the Body.

I'll admit that I've painted a bleak picture and some might accuse me of being defeatist, but that's not what I believe either. Yes, we're in for some hard times, possibly as hard as the early Church had to go through, but God said that tribulation builds patience and that the Gates of Hell itself could not prevail against Christ and His Church, so my answer is to encourage those going through the fire to remember what Isaiah the Prophet said about God's faithfulness to those who believe and trust in Him.

[29] He giveth power to the faint; and to [them that have] no might he increaseth strength. [30] Even the youths shall faint and be weary, and the young men shall utterly fall: [31] But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew [their] strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; [and] they shall walk, and not faint. - Isa 40:29-31 KJV

42 posted on 06/22/2011 7:26:27 AM PDT by paladin1_dcs (Voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil.)
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