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Presbyterians meet in Memphis, seal deal on ordaining women
Commercial Waters ^ | 24 Jun 2011 | David Waters

Posted on 06/24/2011 10:49:07 PM PDT by Cronos

A small but fast-growing Presbyterian denomination meeting this week in Memphis resolved long-standing theological and constitutional conflicts over the ordination of women that have vexed and divided evangelical Christians for decades.

A record-setting 460 delegates to the Evangelical Presbyterian Church's 31st General Assembly voted to allow congregations to call women to ordained ministry, even if their presbytery (governing body) objects for theological or doctrinal reasons....

(Excerpt) Read more at commercialappeal.com ...


TOPICS: Current Events; Mainline Protestant
KEYWORDS: epc; evangelical; feminaziagenda; feminism; homosexualagenda; lesbonaziagenda; orthodoxpresybterian; presbyterian
This doesn't bode well
1 posted on 06/24/2011 10:49:16 PM PDT by Cronos
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To: Gamecock

seriously — how are these guys related to the PCA?


2 posted on 06/24/2011 10:49:53 PM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: Cronos

Seriously? They ain’t.

They are more akin to the PC(USA). Sadly more so than I thought.


3 posted on 06/24/2011 11:35:09 PM PDT by Gamecock (It's not eat drink and be merry because tommow we die, but rather because yesterday we were dead.)
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To: Gamecock

ok. I just looked up on their website and it says that the EPC is a form of New School Presbyterianism while the PCA is Old School. Old School can be the best....


4 posted on 06/24/2011 11:54:57 PM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: Cronos
The EPC are a body of Presbyterians who held back from the merger that created the PCUSA because they objected to the liberalism of the PCUSA.

They upheld the full Westminster Confession as their standard of faith.

Put simply, they were and considered themselves to be, a conservative Presbyterian alternative to the PC(USA). They are unrelated to the PCA.

Basically, the Presbyterians in the US were split between the PCUS (mostly Southerners) and the UPCUSA (mostly Northerners). The conservatives split from the PCUS in 1974 forming the PCA. Then, in 1981, when the merger between the PCUS and the UPCUSA was in motion, the conservatives split from the UPCUSA and formed the EPC.

5 posted on 06/25/2011 3:53:38 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: wideawake; redgolum; Gamecock; xzins
Let's hope they don't get pushed into voting for gay marriage sometime down in the future. Perhaps I'm wrong, but history seems to show that any denomination that first allows a pastoress, sooner or later allows gay married lesbian pastoresses. Am I just making up a non-existent relationship? Leave aside theology, church governance, but is this inevitable that if you allow female priests/pastors, sooner or later gays are allowed? I see it even among the Jewish groups

But I wonder if that's flawed logic -- what do you guys think, is it possible to stop at just pastoresses/priestesses? Leave aside theology and church governance.

6 posted on 06/25/2011 5:15:37 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: wideawake
Basically, the Presbyterians in the US were split between the PCUS (mostly Southerners) and the UPCUSA (mostly Northerners). The conservatives split from the PCUS in 1974 forming the PCA. Then, in 1981, when the merger between the PCUS and the UPCUSA was in motion, the conservatives split from the UPCUSA and formed the EPC.

And the original PCUSA split into the CPC, PCUS and OPC. The OPC broke into the BPC and I thought the EPC, while the CPC got split into the CPC and the CPCA and the UCPA and some from the CPC rejoined the original PCUSA before it split.

7 posted on 06/25/2011 5:28:36 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: Cronos

>> the original PCUSA split into the CPC, PCUS and OPC <<

And soon we’ll see the QPC, the LPC, the HoPC, the HePC, the BiPC and the TrPC, not to mention the APC and countless others — “tu-lips” and “three” lips, four-pointers and three-pointers, maybe even a few zero-pointers. What fun!


8 posted on 06/25/2011 5:41:44 AM PDT by Hawthorn
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To: Cronos

Actually the other EPC split from the BPC, which had split from the OPC (itself a split from from the original PCUSA - which should not be confused with the current PC(USA), a different body). That EPC eventually merged with the PCA. The EPC of this article is not the same as the EPC that split from BPC.


9 posted on 06/25/2011 6:43:10 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: Cronos

There is no flaw in the logic. The inversion of sexes in any important area of life leads inexorably to further inversions.


10 posted on 06/25/2011 6:49:03 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: wideawake
wideawake: Basically, the Presbyterians in the US were split between the PCUS (mostly Southerners) and the UPCUSA (mostly Northerners). The conservatives split from the PCUS in 1974 forming the PCA. Then, in 1981, when the merger between the PCUS and the UPCUSA was in motion, the conservatives split from the UPCUSA and formed the EPC.

Cronos: And the original PCUSA split into the CPC, PCUS and OPC. The OPC broke into the BPC and I thought the EPC, while the CPC got split into the CPC and the CPCA and the UCPA and some from the CPC rejoined the original PCUSA before it split.

wideawake: Actually the other EPC split from the BPC, which had split from the OPC (itself a split from from the original PCUSA - which should not be confused with the current PC(USA), a different body). That EPC eventually merged with the PCA. The EPC of this article is not the same as the EPC that split from BPC.

Ah, I was a bit confused, I thought the EPC mentioned here was the EPC of the BPC after it came from the OPC from the PCUSA before that became the PCUS and then remerged to become the PCUSA and PCA.

11 posted on 06/25/2011 6:56:34 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: wideawake

Truth. I was in the EPC at one time but I left for the PCA over 10 years ago. It looks like I made the correct decision.


12 posted on 06/25/2011 9:58:16 AM PDT by ReformationFan
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To: Cronos

Anglicans first -— then the Anglicans are coming to the Catholic Church.

Lutherans were next -— now the Lutherans are coming to the Catholic Church.

Presbyterians now -— will they also come to the Catholic Church? I think they will.

BTW, I predicted that the Presbyterians would be next.

Now my prediction is that we will see this happening in Baptist and evangelical churches as well.

Finally they will pressure the little private Bible churches.

Will everyone end up coming to the Catholic Church where this will not happen?


13 posted on 06/25/2011 10:25:30 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

Let me re-phrase that last question.

Will everyone end up coming to the Catholic Church where this ordianing of women priests will not happen?


14 posted on 06/25/2011 10:26:48 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
Will everyone end up coming to the Catholic Church where this ordianing of women priests will not happen?

It won't happen in many CHRISTIAN, non-Catholic Churches. The Catholic Church doesn't have a lock on biblical practice.

15 posted on 06/25/2011 11:12:05 AM PDT by fwdude (Prosser wins, Goonions lose.)
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To: fwdude

You’ve got to admit, though, that so far my predictions have been right on.

It will happen. Hang around.


16 posted on 06/25/2011 11:36:08 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
What predictions? That the "mainline" churches would go apostate? That has never been a secret; not in the past 50 years. Everyone could see that once a little doctrine was compromised that the whole structure would fall.

Evangelical Christian Churches will never apostatize to this level - or they will cease to be Christian Churches.

17 posted on 06/25/2011 11:50:17 AM PDT by fwdude (Prosser wins, Goonions lose.)
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To: Salvation
It will happen. Hang around.

Considering the number of gay priests in the Catholic church, what are they merging with?

18 posted on 06/25/2011 12:19:50 PM PDT by aimhigh (True bitter clingers cling to their guns AND their bibles.)
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To: aimhigh

This thread is about ordaining women which will not happen in the Catholic Church.


19 posted on 06/25/2011 12:22:07 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: fwdude

The newsworthy aspect of this is that the EPC is not a mainline, but is a group that split from the mainline on biblical grounds. The cancer is metastasizing.


20 posted on 06/25/2011 2:07:04 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: Salvation

I doubt that Presbyterians would. Their beliefs are too different from Orthodox-Catholic-Coptic-Armenian-Lutheran-Anglican beliefs. Pentecostals are closer.


21 posted on 06/25/2011 3:09:31 PM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: Cronos

I understand what you are saying. Do you think Methodists and Pentacostals will then be next? Or the Baptists and Evangelicals?

Just having fun with predictions.


22 posted on 06/25/2011 4:08:24 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation; Cronos

You’ve pretty well nailed the order of the next dominos (maybe denominoes?) to fall:

Methodist (already a lot of agitation for the gay agenda)
Pentecostal (overemphasis on Holy Spirit’s gifts makes easy prey for “new revelations”)
Evangelical (becoming increasingly “worldly”—especially progressives)
Baptist.

Possible to have female clergy without the gay agenda? So far so good for the Lutheran Congregations in Mission for Christ (10 years and holding); North American Lutheran Church, and Anglican Church in North America.


23 posted on 06/25/2011 7:26:18 PM PDT by lightman (Adjutorium nostrum (+) in nomine Domini)
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To: lightman
So far so good for the Lutheran Congregations in Mission for Christ (10 years and holding); North American Lutheran Church, and Anglican Church in North America.

But how do you manage? Seriously? On the one hand my secular mind thinks that women should have more leadership rules, on the other my religious mind says that Paul says clearly no and my (admittedly prejudiced) logic sees first women, then gays. How does one stop it? I pray the LCMC and NALC do not go down this way, but the logic used by the gays was "scripture says no to women pastors, but you did, so why not us?" -- and I admit I'd be unable to give an answer.

24 posted on 06/25/2011 9:28:46 PM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: lightman; Salvation
Seriously lightman -- I know you said Possible to have female clergy without the gay agenda? So far so good for the Lutheran Congregations in Mission for Christ (10 years and holding); North American Lutheran Church, and Anglican Church in North America.

And I pray that this experiment is successful, but I have strong fears that the next stage is gay married pastorettes.

My, admittedly prejudiced eyes, see first letting in female clergy as the first step. Is this a wrong belief?

I believe women should play more and more of a role, but baulk at them being pastoresses. Don't get me wrong -- in my humble opinion and in my 30+ years of life experience, women are on average far more devout and holier than men -- the sex ratio in heaven could be extremely skewed!

25 posted on 06/26/2011 9:42:48 PM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: Cronos

I do not disagree that female clergy can become part of the slippery slope, particularly when the only rationalization for their Ordination is “justice”.

Another point along that slope is the acceptance of clergy who have remarried after divorce. On that issue, the LCMC has done no better than the ELCA. The NALC Executive Council was charged with presenting a paper on that issue to the next NALC assembly—keep in mind, NALC is not quite one year old.

The ACNA has taken the hardest line: divorced persons who seek to serve as clergy must have their cases heard by the Archbishop and fitness for service is determined on a case by case basis. No carte blanche....and that is how it should be, IMHO.


26 posted on 06/27/2011 10:34:35 AM PDT by lightman (Adjutorium nostrum (+) in nomine Domini)
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To: lightman
well, I think pastors who remarry after divorce should be a flat no.

Divorce is pushing it as it is -- divorce is not an option imho (very non-pc I know)

About female ordination -- how does one not make it about "justice"? And how does one reconcile this with Paul's teachings?

27 posted on 06/27/2011 11:01:02 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: lightman

I really think that allowing remarried pastors is just a sign of an inevitable slide. Don’t you think so? This should not be allowed. of course we’re all flawed beings, but no


28 posted on 06/28/2011 2:34:24 PM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: Cronos

Remarriage after divorce might be considered for those who were the innocent party in what I call the “four A’s”—abuse, abandonment, adultery, or addictions.

Otherwise, no go.


29 posted on 06/28/2011 2:54:37 PM PDT by lightman (Adjutorium nostrum (+) in nomine Domini)
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To: lightman

I’m sorry to disagree, but even if one is the victim of these, remarriage is a no-no. The person is still married to the person who left them, divorce or no divorce


30 posted on 06/29/2011 12:29:04 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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