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The Church Built on Peter
The Integrated Catholic Life ^ | June 29, 2011 | Fr. Roger Landry

Posted on 06/29/2011 5:46:53 AM PDT by Not gonna take it anymore

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To: CynicalBear

James agrees with Peter who proclaimed that God had revealed to him that the Gentiles were to be included in the message.

Yep, Peter knew it first. :)


151 posted on 06/30/2011 7:12:53 PM PDT by Jvette
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To: Iscool

No where in that post did I say that Peter picked any Apostle.

Read it again.

It says that Peter calls for a replacement and then Judas is replaced.


152 posted on 06/30/2011 7:15:40 PM PDT by Jvette
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To: Jvette

Don’t wait for me dear. I quoted scripture which says that God is the Rock but you RCC folks insist on replacing Him with Peter. My words would never do.


153 posted on 06/30/2011 7:42:54 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear

Copping out eh?

got it:)


154 posted on 06/30/2011 7:58:50 PM PDT by Jvette
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To: Jvette
>> Copping out eh?<<

I’m near 63 years old dear. Been down this road more times then I care to remember. Those who are tied to an organization rather then to Christ alone need the earthly ties and I’ve become convinced that it’s futile on my part.

155 posted on 06/30/2011 8:17:51 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear

That’s okay, I forgive you :)

I am tied to Christ through the Church, in fact I receive Him in the Eucharist every time I attend Mass. It is the greatest blessing I could ever hope for.

I too sometimes feel that it is futile, though I do enjoy the debate.

It is up to the Holy Spirit as we both know.


156 posted on 06/30/2011 8:44:24 PM PDT by Jvette
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To: MarkBsnr; Quix; Joya; All
on this rock " Jesus The Christ "I will build My church , colossians staes that Jesus is the first born of all creation and in hebrews 12 the word of God says you have come to The Church of the first born Jesus Christ ! Not Peter a man born into sin and who denied Christ 3 times . ---Amuzgo de Guerrero (AMU)--- Amuzgo de Guerrero ---العربية (AR)--- Arabic Life Application Bible ---Български (BG)--- 1940 Bulgarian Bible Bulgarian Bible ---Chinanteco de Comaltepec (CCO)--- Chinanteco de Comaltepec ---Cakchiquel Occidental (CKW)--- Cakchiquel Occidental ---Kreyol (CPF)--- Haitian Creole Version ---Čeština (CS)--- Slovo na cestu ---Dansk (DA)--- Dette er Biblen på dansk ---Deutsch (DE)--- Hoffnung für Alle Luther Bibel 1545 ---English (EN)--- 21st Century King James Version American Standard Version Amplified Bible Common English Bible Contemporary English Version Darby Translation Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition English Standard Version GOD’S WORD Translation Good News Translation Holman Christian Standard Bible King James Version The Message New American Standard Bible New Century Version New International Reader's Version New International Version New International Version 1984 New International Version - UK New King James Version New Living Translation Today's New International Version Worldwide English (New Testament) Wycliffe Bible Young's Literal Translation ---Español (ES)--- La Biblia de las Américas Castilian Dios Habla Hoy Nueva Biblia Latinoamericana de Hoy Nueva Traducción Viviente Nueva Versión Internacional Reina Valera Contemporánea Reina-Valera 1960 Reina-Valera 1995 Reina-Valera Antigua Traducción en lenguaje actual ---Français (FR)--- La Bible du Semeur Louis Segond ---Κοινη (GRC)--- 1550 Stephanus New Testament 1881 Westcott-Hort New Testament 1894 Scrivener New Testament SBL Greek New Testament ---תירביע (HE)--- The Westminster Leningrad Codex ---Ilonggo (HIL)--- Hiligaynon Bible ---Hrvatski (HR)--- Croatian Bible ---Magyar (HU)--- Hungarian Károli ---Íslenska (IS)--- Icelandic Bible ---Italiano (IT)--- Conferenza Episcopale Italiana La Nuova Diodati La Parola è Vita ---Jacalteco, Oriental (JAC)--- Jacalteco, Oriental ---Kekchi (KEK)--- Kekchi ---Latina (LA)--- Biblia Sacra Vulgata ---Māori (MI)--- Maori Bible ---Macedonian (MK)--- Macedonian New Testament ---Mam, Central (MVC)--- Mam, Central ---Mam, Todos Santos (MVJ)--- Mam de Todos Santos Chuchumatán ---Plautdietsch (NDS)--- Reimer 2001 ---Náhuatl de Guerrero (NGU)--- Náhuatl de Guerrero ---Nederlands (NL)--- Het Boek ---Norsk (NO)--- Det Norsk Bibelselskap 1930 Levande Bibeln ---Português (PT)--- João Ferreira de Almeida Atualizada O Livro ---Quiché, Centro Occidenta (QUT)--- Quiché, Centro Occidental ---Română (RO)--- Romanian Romanian ---Русский (RU)--- Russian Synodal Version Slovo Zhizny ---Slovenčina (SK)--- Nádej pre kazdého ---Shqip (SQ)--- Albanian Bible ---Svenska (SV)--- Levande Bibeln Svenska 1917 ---Kiswahili (SW)--- Swahili New Testament ---Tagalog (TL)--- Ang Salita ng Diyos ---Українська (UK)--- Ukrainian Bible ---Uspanteco (USP)--- Uspanteco ---Tiêng Viêt (VI)--- 1934 Vietnamese Bible ---汉语 (ZH)--- Chinese Union Version (Simplified) Chinese Union Version (Traditional)Page Options Add parallel<<<= =>>>Show resources Show Commentary Colossians 1:13-18 King James Version (KJV) 13Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. Hebrews 12:22-24 New King James Version (NKJV) 22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and "Church of the "Firstborn" who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to "Jesus" the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.
157 posted on 06/30/2011 8:44:27 PM PDT by Jedediah
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To: Jvette
>>I am tied to Christ through the Church<<

I belong to Jesus Christ directly.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus

158 posted on 06/30/2011 9:12:58 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: Jedediah
Hey Dear Bro, silly rabbit.

You've been at this long enough to know . . .

any time you use "<" or ">" in a posting window, you will automatically trigger the html function. The result--

WITHOUT PROPER HTML CODING

WILL BE TO LUMP EVERYTHING INTO ONE UNREADABLE MASS OF TEXT WHICH EVERYONE WILL SCROLL RAPIDLY BY . . . some with unkind thoughts going through their minds.

Your choice is to:

1. take ALL the html triggering codes and symbols out--sometimes time consuming and tricky--or

2. code paragraphs properly with < p > without spaces between the "p" and the carets.

Anyway--I don't think I have it in me to try and decipher your mass of text for you tonight.

I *THINK* I agree with what I can read of your post, though.

LUB

159 posted on 06/30/2011 9:26:25 PM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: OLD REGGIE

Nope, unlike unitarians, even “biblical unitarians”, I believe that Jesus Christ is Lord, God and Savior. Do you dispute that Jesus who we Christians (as opposed to unitarians) consider God, doesn’t mean it when he renames someone?


160 posted on 06/30/2011 11:09:29 PM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: Former Fetus
Well, it's not proven that the Gospel of Matthew was originally in Greek or translated to Greek

If it was originally written in Greek, then the literal translation is "you are Petros (masculine) and on this Petra (feminine original word from which Petros is the masculine form) I will build my Church"

He could not have given Simeon a feminine name, so he used the masculine form of the word

Secondly, if it was translated, the same issue would occur

161 posted on 06/30/2011 11:14:00 PM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: CynicalBear; Jvette
of course, your words compared to Christ's would not do.
And Jesus came into the quarters of Caesarea Philippi: and he asked his disciples, saying: Whom do men say that the Son of man is? [14] But they said: Some John the Baptist, and other some Elias, and others Jeremias, or one of the prophets. [15] Jesus saith to them: But whom do you say that I am?

[16] Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. [17] And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. [18] And I say to thee: That thou art rock; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. [19] And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven. [20] Then he commanded his disciples, that they should tell no one that he was Jesus the Christ.

It doesn't make sense to say "Blessed are you for saying this, my father revealed it to you. You are rock and upon me, I will build my Church." It doesn't make sense standing on its own nor in context

Rather it is "Blessed are you for saying this, my father revealed it to you. You are rock and upon this rock (you) I will build my Church"

What were Peter's qualities? He was unlearned, a simple fisherman, showed himself to be a coward at times, his faith failed him at times, but he still clung to his simple belief, like a rock

Like a rock -- the simple faith in the Lord is what Christ points out.

162 posted on 07/01/2011 12:41:09 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: CynicalBear; Jvette
also we are not tied to "an organization", we are tied to the community (church) that was inaugurated by Christ. The body is ONE, not to be rent asunder.

This community is all of us in it, not just defined by the ministerial priesthood but the entire royal priesthood of believers in The Church

163 posted on 07/01/2011 12:43:19 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: Jedediah

Hi Jed.

Are you still a prophet?

Whatever happened to that prophecy of yours last spring, soon to come, of “a mountain range rising up straight down Interstate 5 from Olympia through California… parts of the Olmypic Peninsula disappearing,” soon to be a “catastrophe of human life greater than ever fortold, yada, yada, yada… “

Has that one become inoperative yet?


164 posted on 07/01/2011 12:50:54 AM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: OLD REGGIE; CynicalBear; Jvette
Oh, I just asked you about your Unitarian beliefs -- how exactly does a unitarian use sola scriptura to justify that Jesus Christ is not God. It should be interesting to read your arguements?

For that matter, can you explain to us why unitarians consider the Bible to be on par with the Koran, Gita, etc. etc.?

165 posted on 07/01/2011 12:54:13 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: MarkBsnr; Iscool
iscool: God baptized them with the Holy Spirit

Cronos: err Iscool, perhaps it's new to you but to us Christians, the Holy Spirit IS God

Mark: "Remember that Iscool tells us that he doesn't believe what he believes and that he alternatively finds God to be God the Father only, or else a diune subordinationist modalist God of the Supreme Father and the meek and mild Son, with the Holy Spirit as an inanimate robot messager who wanders around doing God's bidding."

Ah, yes -- yes, it's weird how often that flip flop occurs -- first one of Iscool's posts implies

God is God the Father ONLY and Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are God the Father looking in a mirror

and then another post says

the Holy Spirit is just a tool used by God the Father

Methink the Kirk of Cool (population 1) is revising it's basic doctrine.

166 posted on 07/01/2011 12:58:24 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: Cronos; MarkBsnr; Iscool

Small “o” orthodox Christians seem to be quite rare on these threads.


167 posted on 07/01/2011 1:08:18 AM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: D-fendr; MarkBsnr; Iscool
Well, we in orthodoxy (Catholics, Orthodox, Copts, Armenians, Ethiopians, Assyrians) share the same beliefs and all are appalled by the sheer chaos of folks who think that The Holy Spirit is not God (iscool -- do remember that sins against the Holy Spirit are not forgiven).

even our conservative, orthodox Lutheran, Anglican, Methodist brethern are disgusted by the kirk of one types and their wild interpretations.

168 posted on 07/01/2011 1:35:53 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: Cronos; MarkBsnr; Iscool

With a few excepts, I sometimes feel like we’re debating the fringe of the fringe.


169 posted on 07/01/2011 1:42:03 AM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: D-fendr; MarkBsnr; Iscool
The lunatic fringe, yes. What pains me is that we refer to this fringe as Protestants -- they aren't and they have next to nothing in common with real Christian Protestants like Lutherans, Anglicans, Methodists etc.

This bunch includes folks from the Unitarian Universalist, jevhoah's witnesses, folks who think that Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are what happens when God looks at Himself in a mirror, then you have the really way out ones like the waswarm flip-flopper.

170 posted on 07/01/2011 1:55:32 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: Cronos; MarkBsnr
What pains me is that we refer to this fringe as Protestants

That's a very good point. Not sure what to do about it though.

171 posted on 07/01/2011 2:01:19 AM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: D-fendr; MarkBsnr

Well, I’ve stopped referring to the characters we reply to on this thread as Protestants — they’re not Protestants who are Christians. The lunatic fringe will believe anything that is not Catholic — I’ve even had the was warm guy say he believed in a completely Church doctrine only he used a different term. When I told him that was part of the faith, he changed tune to saying he didn’t believe it — their religion is based on not being something.


172 posted on 07/01/2011 2:05:23 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: D-fendr; MarkBsnr
What the fringe believes is really the fringe like:
173 posted on 07/01/2011 2:22:53 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: Cronos

Perhaps Heterodox would be a more accurate term.


174 posted on 07/01/2011 4:22:45 AM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: MarkBsnr
St. Paul describes himself as "father" in that he is bringing the Gospel to his spiritual children. He calls himself that several times during his epistles.

So what's that got to do with you calling a mere man the Holy Father???

175 posted on 07/01/2011 5:06:55 AM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Jedediah

Wait a minute; I thought that you were an OT kind of guy. Has your Bible suddently grown? And why pick on Paul rather than Jesus? And where did you get this quote from? It is good form to include the website from whence you lift copy.

At any rate, the Church that Jesus created was built around the Apostles, with Peter at their lead. So you are correct inasmuch as you recognize that.


176 posted on 07/01/2011 5:10:11 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: Jvette
Now the passage is obscure?

It is and it is...

I thought all Scripture was self interpretive. Why, as a Christian can’t I just read it and instantly understand it?

If you would just read it, you'd know the answer to that...

177 posted on 07/01/2011 5:13:59 AM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: D-fendr; Jedediah
Whatever happened to that prophecy of yours last spring, soon to come, of “a mountain range rising up straight down Interstate 5 from Olympia through California… parts of the Olmypic Peninsula disappearing,” soon to be a “catastrophe of human life greater than ever fortold, yada, yada, yada… “

I had forgotten about that one. Shall we lump ol' Jed in with Harold Camping, the Pentecostals and the JWs?

Or is he in a class by himself?


178 posted on 07/01/2011 5:16:27 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: Cronos; Iscool
Methink the Kirk of Cool (population 1) is revising it's basic doctrine.

I think that it might largely depend upon what the sacrament of the day is: beer, wine, whisky, vodka, marijuana, cocaine, acetone, spray paint, or glue.

179 posted on 07/01/2011 5:18:56 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: Jvette
The Church claims nothing for herself that was not given to her by Christ.

Completely false...

In John Jesus says, “As the Father sent me, so I send you.”

So what's that supposed to mean to a Catholic...The reality is; Jesus is still sending people to spread His word...

God, through His Son Jesus has established His Church which is guided by the Holy Spirit.

Jesus didn't establish a Church...Jesus established a church...The church is guided by the scripture which which is the Truth that the Holy Spirit leads people to...

Everything anyone knows about Jesus came to them through the Church, His Church.

More complete nonsense...Every thing I know about Jesus came thru and from the scriptures...And those scriptures did NOT come thru your religion...

The Church has been ENTRUSTED with the fullness of His grace and truth to the extent that God wishes it to be.

Another atrocity...God does not give your church or any institution grace...God gives grace to individuals...

Yes, ALL of it comes through the Church by the will of God.

Not a true statement in the whole bunch...

180 posted on 07/01/2011 5:24:27 AM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Iscool
So what's that got to do with you calling a mere man the Holy Father???

You might want to actually look outside the Church of Iscool (population one) to actual Christianity. I showed you that Paul referred to himself as spiritual father on a number of occasions. Now as to holy:

http://www.webster-dictionary.net/definition/Holy says that:

Definition of Holy
Ho´ly
a. 1. Set apart to the service or worship of God; hallowed; sacred; reserved from profane or common use; holy vessels; a holy priesthood.
2. Spiritually whole or sound; of unimpaired innocence and virtue; free from sinful affections; pure in heart; godly; pious; irreproachable; guiltless; acceptable to God.

See? It's so simple even an Iscool can get it.

181 posted on 07/01/2011 5:24:45 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: D-fendr

Or lunatic fringe?


182 posted on 07/01/2011 5:33:52 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: Jvette
I am tied to Christ through the Church

Yes, your religion has you in bondage...I am not tied to Christ at all...I am IN Jesus Christ; Jesus Christ is IN me...

, in fact I receive Him in the Eucharist every time I attend Mass. It is the greatest blessing I could ever hope for.

It is not the greatest blessing you could hope for...The greatest blessing is to be a child of God knowing Jesus will never leave nor forsake you...

183 posted on 07/01/2011 5:33:55 AM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Iscool; MarkBsnr

So, just as Paul calls himself father, it’s the same here. Besides in other languages one doesn’t necessarily call priest father. As a supposed ex-Catholic, you, iscool, should know that — or are you still searching for the Baptist group that will allow wine?


184 posted on 07/01/2011 5:36:24 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: Iscool; Jvette; MarkBsnr; D-fendr
Iscool: try to use an obscure verse like Matt. 16:18 to prove something that doesn't make any sense.

Jv: I thought all Scripture was self interpretive. Why, as a Christian can’t I just read it and instantly understand it?

iscool: If you would just read it, you'd know the answer to that...

Do you mean we should not read the bible but only interpret your interpretation?

Didn't you say that Apparently you are under the impression that the Bible NEEDS interpretation...Even tho it's written in 6th Grade English...At least my Bible is...?

Or do you mean something that should make sense to your teachings?

No thank you, I prefer Christ's teachings and that's what we Christians who believe that the Holy SPirit IS God do

185 posted on 07/01/2011 5:39:40 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: Iscool; Jvette; MarkBsnr; D-fendr
iscool: Jesus didn't establish a Church...Jesus established a church.

...More complete nonsense

Not a true statement in the whole bunch...

186 posted on 07/01/2011 5:43:00 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: D-fendr; Jedediah; MarkBsnr
Ah, you're talking about this article:

Washington ,Oregon ,California and The Olmypic Peninsula Choose this day whom you will serve ! from March 2011

In 2005 the Lord gave me a vision of a mountain range rising up straight down Interstate 5 from Olympia through California . Yesterday I sensed even parts of the Olmypic Peninsula may soon disappear !

There is about to be

A catastrophe

Simple limerick -- there's about to be, dum-dum-dah, a catastrophe
187 posted on 07/01/2011 6:05:22 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: D-fendr; Jedediah; MarkBsnr
I got a really cool one for you:

A holocaust as never before from 2009 May

My children you are about to witness a holocaust (burned whole ) as never experienced or witnessed as Sennacherib (2 Chronicles 32:20-22) .

There shall be flames of fire and chaos , a loss of lives in udder dread from the rebellious in heart , yet my chosen , my called and sent ones ( Apostles ) shall reside in the shadow of my wings and utter praises to their King of kings and Lord of lords .


188 posted on 07/01/2011 6:16:24 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: Cronos
There shall be flames of fire and chaos , a loss of lives in udder dread from the rebellious in heart


189 posted on 07/01/2011 7:10:00 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: MarkBsnr

That is udderly dreadful. Also you mispelt the last word with an “he” instead of a “ph”.


190 posted on 07/01/2011 7:17:10 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: Cronos
>>It doesn't make sense to say "Blessed are you for saying this, my father revealed it to you. You are rock and upon me, I will build my Church." It doesn't make sense standing on its own nor in context<<

Given that throughout the entirety of the Old and New Testament it was stated by God over and over again that He was the Rock “and there is no other” it is entirely in context that the Apostles would have understood that Jesus was speaking of Himself.

Peter indeed had just acknowledged that Jesus was the Christ the Son of the living God. Therefore acknowledged that Jesus was indeed the Rock referred to throughout scripture.

It would be out of context to believe that after declaring throughout scripture God is the rock to then believe by one statement He changed that.

If you want reference to God as the Rock here are some verses.

Deut. 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

2 Sam. 22:2 And he said, The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; 3 The God of my rock; in him will I trust: he is my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my high tower, and my refuge, my saviour; thou savest me from violence.

Psalm 18:31, "And who is a rock, except our God."

Isaiah 44:8, "Is there any God besides Me, or is there any other Rock? I know of none."

Rom. 9:33, "Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, and he who believes in Him will not be disappointed."

1 Cor. 3:11, "For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ,"

1 Cor. 10:4, "and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock (petras) which followed them; and the rock (petra) was Christ."

To believe that Christ is the Rock is totally in context and to believe otherwise is out of context.

191 posted on 07/01/2011 7:29:29 AM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: Cronos
>>This community is all of us in it, not just defined by the ministerial priesthood but the entire royal priesthood of believers in The Church<<

And it doesn’t start with Roman.

192 posted on 07/01/2011 7:38:39 AM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: Cronos; OLD REGGIE

Your snarky comments get really old.


193 posted on 07/01/2011 7:39:51 AM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear; Iscool

Tied to Christ is not a phrase I would normally use, I only used it in response to your accusation that I am tied to an organization rather than Christ.

Christ comes to me in the Eucharist and the Eucharist comes to me through the Church. That is the tie that binds me to Christ. This is how Christ is in me and I in Him.

Allow Jesus to tell you about it in His own words....

John 6:50-58 (New American Standard)

50 “This is the bread which comes down out of heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. 51 “I am the living bread that came down out of heaven ; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever ; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh.” 52 Then the Jews began to argue with one another, saying, “How can this man give us His flesh to eat ?” 53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. 54 “He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55 “For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink. 56 “He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 “As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also will live because of Me. 58 “This is the bread which came down out of heaven ; not as the fathers ate and died ; he who eats this bread will live forever.”


194 posted on 07/01/2011 7:58:06 AM PDT by Jvette
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To: CynicalBear

It seems to me the problem with your interpretation is that Jesus does not say, “Your confession is rock, or I am Rock.”

He says quite clearly to Simon, “Thou art rock” and “Upon this rock, I will build my church.”

No way to get around that, no matter how you interpret it, what language you use or if it’s little or big, masculine or feminine.


195 posted on 07/01/2011 8:17:17 AM PDT by Jvette
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To: Cronos
So, just as Paul calls himself father, it’s the same here.

Paul never called himself father...Why do you always pervert the scriptures???

Paul says he sometimes was as/like a father...

196 posted on 07/01/2011 8:30:32 AM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Jvette
You folks can keep focusing on the flesh but I’m going to remain in the spiritual.

"The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life." (John 6:63)

To feed on the Bread of Life is to believe Jesus' words and trust in him as the source of our life.

To eat Jesus' flesh and blood means to utterly depend upon him and the truths he teaches for sustenance and life itself.

197 posted on 07/01/2011 8:34:01 AM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: Jvette
Christ comes to me in the Eucharist and the Eucharist comes to me through the Church. That is the tie that binds me to Christ. This is how Christ is in me and I in Him.

But he's gone again in 20 minutes and then you have to come back to the 'Church' for another fix...

That's not bible Christianity...That's Catholic Church...

198 posted on 07/01/2011 8:36:20 AM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Jvette

That one verse contradicts all of the other verses clearly establishing who the rock is (in your interpretation) and that’s what stands as the foundation for institutions in the RCC and you faithfully follow the error. To each his own I guess.


199 posted on 07/01/2011 8:40:18 AM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: Jvette
It seems to me the problem with your interpretation is that Jesus does not say, “Your confession is rock, or I am Rock.”

And the problem with your interpretation is that when Jesus says, 'you are a rock', he did NOT say upon you, rock, I will build my church...Jesus says 'you'...Then he says, 'this'...You and this are not the same thing...

Things that are different are not the same...

200 posted on 07/01/2011 8:40:46 AM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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