Skip to comments.The Church Built on Peter
Posted on 06/29/2011 5:46:53 AM PDT by Not gonna take it anymore
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James agrees with Peter who proclaimed that God had revealed to him that the Gentiles were to be included in the message.
Yep, Peter knew it first. :)
No where in that post did I say that Peter picked any Apostle.
Read it again.
It says that Peter calls for a replacement and then Judas is replaced.
Dont wait for me dear. I quoted scripture which says that God is the Rock but you RCC folks insist on replacing Him with Peter. My words would never do.
Copping out eh?
Im near 63 years old dear. Been down this road more times then I care to remember. Those who are tied to an organization rather then to Christ alone need the earthly ties and Ive become convinced that its futile on my part.
That’s okay, I forgive you :)
I am tied to Christ through the Church, in fact I receive Him in the Eucharist every time I attend Mass. It is the greatest blessing I could ever hope for.
I too sometimes feel that it is futile, though I do enjoy the debate.
It is up to the Holy Spirit as we both know.
I belong to Jesus Christ directly.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus
You've been at this long enough to know . . .
any time you use "<" or ">" in a posting window, you will automatically trigger the html function. The result--
WITHOUT PROPER HTML CODING
WILL BE TO LUMP EVERYTHING INTO ONE UNREADABLE MASS OF TEXT WHICH EVERYONE WILL SCROLL RAPIDLY BY . . . some with unkind thoughts going through their minds.
Your choice is to:
1. take ALL the html triggering codes and symbols out--sometimes time consuming and tricky--or
2. code paragraphs properly with < p > without spaces between the "p" and the carets.
Anyway--I don't think I have it in me to try and decipher your mass of text for you tonight.
I *THINK* I agree with what I can read of your post, though.
Nope, unlike unitarians, even “biblical unitarians”, I believe that Jesus Christ is Lord, God and Savior. Do you dispute that Jesus who we Christians (as opposed to unitarians) consider God, doesn’t mean it when he renames someone?
If it was originally written in Greek, then the literal translation is "you are Petros (masculine) and on this Petra (feminine original word from which Petros is the masculine form) I will build my Church"
He could not have given Simeon a feminine name, so he used the masculine form of the word
Secondly, if it was translated, the same issue would occur
And Jesus came into the quarters of Caesarea Philippi: and he asked his disciples, saying: Whom do men say that the Son of man is?  But they said: Some John the Baptist, and other some Elias, and others Jeremias, or one of the prophets.  Jesus saith to them: But whom do you say that I am?It doesn't make sense to say "Blessed are you for saying this, my father revealed it to you. You are rock and upon me, I will build my Church." It doesn't make sense standing on its own nor in context
 Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God.  And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven.  And I say to thee: That thou art rock; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.  And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.  Then he commanded his disciples, that they should tell no one that he was Jesus the Christ.
Rather it is "Blessed are you for saying this, my father revealed it to you. You are rock and upon this rock (you) I will build my Church"
What were Peter's qualities? He was unlearned, a simple fisherman, showed himself to be a coward at times, his faith failed him at times, but he still clung to his simple belief, like a rock
Like a rock -- the simple faith in the Lord is what Christ points out.
This community is all of us in it, not just defined by the ministerial priesthood but the entire royal priesthood of believers in The Church
Are you still a prophet?
Whatever happened to that prophecy of yours last spring, soon to come, of “a mountain range rising up straight down Interstate 5 from Olympia through California parts of the Olmypic Peninsula disappearing,” soon to be a “catastrophe of human life greater than ever fortold, yada, yada, yada “
Has that one become inoperative yet?
For that matter, can you explain to us why unitarians consider the Bible to be on par with the Koran, Gita, etc. etc.?
Cronos: err Iscool, perhaps it's new to you but to us Christians, the Holy Spirit IS God
Mark: "Remember that Iscool tells us that he doesn't believe what he believes and that he alternatively finds God to be God the Father only, or else a diune subordinationist modalist God of the Supreme Father and the meek and mild Son, with the Holy Spirit as an inanimate robot messager who wanders around doing God's bidding."
Ah, yes -- yes, it's weird how often that flip flop occurs -- first one of Iscool's posts implies
and then another post says
Methink the Kirk of Cool (population 1) is revising it's basic doctrine.
Small “o” orthodox Christians seem to be quite rare on these threads.
even our conservative, orthodox Lutheran, Anglican, Methodist brethern are disgusted by the kirk of one types and their wild interpretations.
With a few excepts, I sometimes feel like we’re debating the fringe of the fringe.
This bunch includes folks from the Unitarian Universalist, jevhoah's witnesses, folks who think that Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are what happens when God looks at Himself in a mirror, then you have the really way out ones like the waswarm flip-flopper.
That's a very good point. Not sure what to do about it though.
Well, I’ve stopped referring to the characters we reply to on this thread as Protestants — they’re not Protestants who are Christians. The lunatic fringe will believe anything that is not Catholic — I’ve even had the was warm guy say he believed in a completely Church doctrine only he used a different term. When I told him that was part of the faith, he changed tune to saying he didn’t believe it — their religion is based on not being something.
Perhaps Heterodox would be a more accurate term.
So what's that got to do with you calling a mere man the Holy Father???
Wait a minute; I thought that you were an OT kind of guy. Has your Bible suddently grown? And why pick on Paul rather than Jesus? And where did you get this quote from? It is good form to include the website from whence you lift copy.
At any rate, the Church that Jesus created was built around the Apostles, with Peter at their lead. So you are correct inasmuch as you recognize that.
It is and it is...
I thought all Scripture was self interpretive. Why, as a Christian cant I just read it and instantly understand it?
If you would just read it, you'd know the answer to that...
I had forgotten about that one. Shall we lump ol' Jed in with Harold Camping, the Pentecostals and the JWs?
Or is he in a class by himself?
I think that it might largely depend upon what the sacrament of the day is: beer, wine, whisky, vodka, marijuana, cocaine, acetone, spray paint, or glue.
In John Jesus says, As the Father sent me, so I send you.
So what's that supposed to mean to a Catholic...The reality is; Jesus is still sending people to spread His word...
God, through His Son Jesus has established His Church which is guided by the Holy Spirit.
Jesus didn't establish a Church...Jesus established a church...The church is guided by the scripture which which is the Truth that the Holy Spirit leads people to...
Everything anyone knows about Jesus came to them through the Church, His Church.
More complete nonsense...Every thing I know about Jesus came thru and from the scriptures...And those scriptures did NOT come thru your religion...
The Church has been ENTRUSTED with the fullness of His grace and truth to the extent that God wishes it to be.
Another atrocity...God does not give your church or any institution grace...God gives grace to individuals...
Yes, ALL of it comes through the Church by the will of God.
Not a true statement in the whole bunch...
You might want to actually look outside the Church of Iscool (population one) to actual Christianity. I showed you that Paul referred to himself as spiritual father on a number of occasions. Now as to holy:
http://www.webster-dictionary.net/definition/Holy says that:
Definition of Holy
a. 1. Set apart to the service or worship of God; hallowed; sacred; reserved from profane or common use; holy vessels; a holy priesthood.
2. Spiritually whole or sound; of unimpaired innocence and virtue; free from sinful affections; pure in heart; godly; pious; irreproachable; guiltless; acceptable to God.
See? It's so simple even an Iscool can get it.
Or lunatic fringe?
Yes, your religion has you in bondage...I am not tied to Christ at all...I am IN Jesus Christ; Jesus Christ is IN me...
, in fact I receive Him in the Eucharist every time I attend Mass. It is the greatest blessing I could ever hope for.
It is not the greatest blessing you could hope for...The greatest blessing is to be a child of God knowing Jesus will never leave nor forsake you...
So, just as Paul calls himself father, it’s the same here. Besides in other languages one doesn’t necessarily call priest father. As a supposed ex-Catholic, you, iscool, should know that — or are you still searching for the Baptist group that will allow wine?
Jv: I thought all Scripture was self interpretive. Why, as a Christian cant I just read it and instantly understand it?
iscool: If you would just read it, you'd know the answer to that...
Do you mean we should not read the bible but only interpret your interpretation?
Didn't you say that Apparently you are under the impression that the Bible NEEDS interpretation...Even tho it's written in 6th Grade English...At least my Bible is...?
Or do you mean something that should make sense to your teachings?
No thank you, I prefer Christ's teachings and that's what we Christians who believe that the Holy SPirit IS God do
In 2005 the Lord gave me a vision of a mountain range rising up straight down Interstate 5 from Olympia through California . Yesterday I sensed even parts of the Olmypic Peninsula may soon disappear !Simple limerick -- there's about to be, dum-dum-dah, a catastrophe
There is about to be
A holocaust as never before from 2009 May
My children you are about to witness a holocaust (burned whole ) as never experienced or witnessed as Sennacherib (2 Chronicles 32:20-22) .
There shall be flames of fire and chaos , a loss of lives in udder dread from the rebellious in heart , yet my chosen , my called and sent ones ( Apostles ) shall reside in the shadow of my wings and utter praises to their King of kings and Lord of lords .
That is udderly dreadful. Also you mispelt the last word with an “he” instead of a “ph”.
Given that throughout the entirety of the Old and New Testament it was stated by God over and over again that He was the Rock and there is no other it is entirely in context that the Apostles would have understood that Jesus was speaking of Himself.
Peter indeed had just acknowledged that Jesus was the Christ the Son of the living God. Therefore acknowledged that Jesus was indeed the Rock referred to throughout scripture.
It would be out of context to believe that after declaring throughout scripture God is the rock to then believe by one statement He changed that.
If you want reference to God as the Rock here are some verses.
Deut. 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
2 Sam. 22:2 And he said, The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; 3 The God of my rock; in him will I trust: he is my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my high tower, and my refuge, my saviour; thou savest me from violence.
Psalm 18:31, "And who is a rock, except our God."
Isaiah 44:8, "Is there any God besides Me, or is there any other Rock? I know of none."
Rom. 9:33, "Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, and he who believes in Him will not be disappointed."
1 Cor. 3:11, "For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ,"
1 Cor. 10:4, "and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock (petras) which followed them; and the rock (petra) was Christ."
To believe that Christ is the Rock is totally in context and to believe otherwise is out of context.
And it doesnt start with Roman.
Your snarky comments get really old.
Tied to Christ is not a phrase I would normally use, I only used it in response to your accusation that I am tied to an organization rather than Christ.
Christ comes to me in the Eucharist and the Eucharist comes to me through the Church. That is the tie that binds me to Christ. This is how Christ is in me and I in Him.
Allow Jesus to tell you about it in His own words....
John 6:50-58 (New American Standard)
50 “This is the bread which comes down out of heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. 51 “I am the living bread that came down out of heaven ; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever ; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh.” 52 Then the Jews began to argue with one another, saying, “How can this man give us His flesh to eat ?” 53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. 54 “He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55 “For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink. 56 “He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 “As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also will live because of Me. 58 “This is the bread which came down out of heaven ; not as the fathers ate and died ; he who eats this bread will live forever.”
It seems to me the problem with your interpretation is that Jesus does not say, “Your confession is rock, or I am Rock.”
He says quite clearly to Simon, “Thou art rock” and “Upon this rock, I will build my church.”
No way to get around that, no matter how you interpret it, what language you use or if it’s little or big, masculine or feminine.
Paul never called himself father...Why do you always pervert the scriptures???
Paul says he sometimes was as/like a father...
"The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life." (John 6:63)
To feed on the Bread of Life is to believe Jesus' words and trust in him as the source of our life.
To eat Jesus' flesh and blood means to utterly depend upon him and the truths he teaches for sustenance and life itself.
But he's gone again in 20 minutes and then you have to come back to the 'Church' for another fix...
That's not bible Christianity...That's Catholic Church...
That one verse contradicts all of the other verses clearly establishing who the rock is (in your interpretation) and thats what stands as the foundation for institutions in the RCC and you faithfully follow the error. To each his own I guess.
And the problem with your interpretation is that when Jesus says, 'you are a rock', he did NOT say upon you, rock, I will build my church...Jesus says 'you'...Then he says, 'this'...You and this are not the same thing...
Things that are different are not the same...