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The Church Built on Peter
The Integrated Catholic Life ^ | June 29, 2011 | Fr. Roger Landry

Posted on 06/29/2011 5:46:53 AM PDT by Not gonna take it anymore

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To: CynicalBear
Peter is NOT the Rock, God the Father is.

You are wrong on multiple counts.

    "For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ."
Christ is not God the Father.

Also, who was called "Cephas"?

21 posted on 06/29/2011 11:02:29 AM PDT by Titanites
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To: JohnGrace1
There is biblical evidence of genuflecting.

Not in the New Testament church, there isn't...

Peter set the example for the church...And what are you guys doing with it??? You are trashing the scripture, the words of God by bowing to another man and calling it good...

22 posted on 06/29/2011 11:06:21 AM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Titanites
So you are saying that this verse is not the “inspired word of God” or He was mistaken, or what?

Isaiah 44:8, "Is there any God besides Me, or is there any other Rock? I know of none."

23 posted on 06/29/2011 11:08:21 AM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: Iscool; johngrace
bowing to another man and calling it good...

Now, bowing to another man is not good? Showing respect to another is a bad thing? Maybe in your church of one.

24 posted on 06/29/2011 11:09:47 AM PDT by Titanites
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To: CynicalBear
So you are saying that this verse is not the “inspired word of God” or He was mistaken, or what?

No. I'm saying Christ is not God the Father.

Also, you didn't answer my question. Who was called "Cephas"?

25 posted on 06/29/2011 11:11:48 AM PDT by Titanites
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To: Titanites
Don't miss that key phrase "worshipped him". As is consistent with this teaching from Scripture, it is Catholic teaching not to worship a created being.

Sure, sure...And it's Catholic teaching to keep active homos out of the clergy...And it's Catholic teaching that abortion and contraception is an abomination and not to be tolerated in your church...

I could also make the false claim that I love alcohol...Drink a fifth of Bourbon a day...A case of beer every night...

But on the other hand, I don't drink alcohol because I have a self imposed rule that I don't drink alcohol...It's not drinking...I am imbibing...

Sorry guys but you don't get to define what worship means...God has taken care of that and any cursory study on worship in the scriptures may set you on a straighter course...

26 posted on 06/29/2011 11:36:27 AM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: CynicalBear
Isaiah 44:8, "Is there any God besides Me, or is there any other Rock? I know of none."

But that's God speaking in the bible...They don't do bible...

27 posted on 06/29/2011 11:41:04 AM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Iscool; JohnGrace1
Courtesy of Johngrace1:
    Deut. 5:9 - God’s command, “you shall not bow down to them” means “do not worship them.” But not all bowing is worship. Here God’s command is connected to false worship.

    Rev. 3:9 - Jesus said people would bow down before the faithful members of the church of Philadelphia. This bowing before the faithful is not worship, just as kissing a picture of a family member is not worship.

    Gen. 19:1 - Lot bowed down to the ground in veneration before two angels in Sodom.

    Gen. 24:52 - Abraham’s servant bowed himself to the earth before the Lord.

    Gen. 42:6 - Joseph’s brothers bow before Joseph with the face to the ground.

    Jos. 5:14 - Joshua fell to the ground prostrate in veneration before an angel.

    1 Sam. 28:14 - Saul bows down before Samuel with his face to the ground in honor and veneration.

    1 Kings 1:23 - the prophet Nathan bows down before King David.

    2 Kings 2:15 - the sons of the prophets bow down to Elisha at Jericho.

    1 Chron. 21:21 - Ornan the Jebusite did obeisance to king David with his face to the ground.

    1 Chron. 29:20 - Israelites bowed down to worship God and give honor to the king.

    2 Chron. 29:29-30 - King Hezekiah and the assembly venerate the altar by bowing down in worship before the sin offerings.

    Tobit 12:16 - Tobiah and Tobit fell down to the ground in veneration before the angel Raphael.

    Judith 14:7 - Achior the Ammonite kneels before Judith venerating her and praising God.

    Psalm 138:2 - David bows down before God’s Holy Temple.

    Dan. 2:46 - the king fell down on his face paying homage to Daniel and commands that an offering be made to him.

    Dan. 8:17 - Daniel fell down prostrate in veneration before the angel Gabriel.

    1 Macc. 4:40,55 - Judas and the faithful fell face down to the ground to praise heaven and worship God.

    2 Macc. 10:4,26; 13:12 - Maccabeus and his followers fall down prostrate praying to God.


28 posted on 06/29/2011 11:42:16 AM PDT by Titanites
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To: Iscool
Sure, sure...And it's Catholic teaching to keep active homos out of the clergy...And it's Catholic teaching that abortion and contraception is an abomination and not to be tolerated in your church...

Very good. It is Catholic teaching. The Church isn't a Church of just saints. There are also sinners.

It's not drinking...I am imbibing...

Sinners you all means to justify their sin. But it's still sin.

Sorry guys but you don't get to define what worship means...

Heh, I think that was you defining worship back there, not us.

and any cursory study on worship in the scriptures may set you on a straighter course

Something more that a cursory study might help set you straight.

29 posted on 06/29/2011 11:49:06 AM PDT by Titanites
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To: Iscool; CynicalBear
They don't do bible...

Please don't go spreading falsehoods. Making personal attacks is a sure sign of a weak argument.

30 posted on 06/29/2011 11:57:23 AM PDT by Titanites
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To: Titanites
Sinners you use all means
31 posted on 06/29/2011 11:58:56 AM PDT by Titanites
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To: sr4402

You are right. The rock IS Christ. There is no other name under Heaven by which we can be saved.


32 posted on 06/29/2011 11:59:05 AM PDT by JLLH
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To: Iscool

You are quite right, Iscool.


33 posted on 06/29/2011 12:02:50 PM PDT by JLLH
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To: Titanites
Deut. 5:9 - God’s command, “you shall not bow down to them” means “do not worship them.” But not all bowing is worship. Here God’s command is connected to false worship.

No it doesn't...It means what it says...Do not bow down to them...

Deu 5:8 Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:
Deu 5:9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,

The worship part is already taken care of in the do not serve them phrase...

Do not bow down to your false gods that you created is the context...No need to pervert the meaning to justify bowing to anything that you can come up with...

Of course it's ok to bow in respect or greeting to another person...BUt that's not what Peter was referring to and I believe you know it...Just as this verse in REV;

Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

This is basically what Peter said...This is NOT what your pope says...

As I see it, your pope is a created little god whom you call Holy Father and numerous other God only names...You bow down to kiss his ring; kiss his feet...You pray to the little god...

Your pope doesn't tell you to stand up, he's just a servant like you, no, your pope revels in this worship he receives from you guys...

He wears the dresses with the red hat and shoes...Wears massive crowns of gold and jewels...

If one didn't know better, he'd think a pope was God's man on earth...Bud God doesn't have a 'man' on earth...

Peter didn't act like your pope...Paul didn't act like your pope...And Jesus certainly didn't act like your pope...Who or what is your pope???

34 posted on 06/29/2011 12:08:01 PM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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Comment #35 Removed by Moderator

To: Iscool; JohnGrace1
Please address your post to JohnGrace1. I posted that for him, so I'll let him respond.

It is noted however, that you ignored the rest of his post.

Of course it's ok to bow in respect or greeting to another person...BUt that's not what Peter was referring to and I believe you know it

Peter was objecting to the worshipping.

Do not bow down to your false gods that you created

We didn't create a god and we don't worship it.

This is basically what Peter said...This is NOT what your pope says...

Sure it is. The Pope does not agree with worship of him. If you prostrated your self in front of him, or kneeled in front of him, he would raise you up.

As I see it, your pope is a created little god

What you see is not a declaration of what "is". And we can't help what you see.

You bow down to kiss his ring

Yes, as a sign of respect of the office he holds; not as worship.

kiss his feet

I believe that's a figment of your imagination.

You pray to the little god

Unfortunatly, it appears your imagination is getting the best of you.

Wears massive crowns of gold and jewels...

So does the Queen of England. The Pope is the head of state of Vatican City.

he's just a servant like you

Yes, you are right. The Pope washes our feet; not the other way around.

36 posted on 06/29/2011 12:25:00 PM PDT by Titanites
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Comment #37 Removed by Moderator

Comment #38 Removed by Moderator

To: Titanites
Oh give it up. Jesus called Peter Cephas which is Aramaic the language that Jesus spoke and means rock. In Greek the word is Petros and in English it is Peter. Wow! Wasn’t that neat? So what? It still doesn’t mean that the church is built upon Peter as the foundation.

Paul made it rather clear.

1 Cor. 3:11 For other foundation no one can lay, but that which has been laid, which is Christ Jesus

I shouldn’t have said “the Father”. God, “and these three are one”, the Rock upon which the church is built.

Neither is the Pope the head of the church.

Eph. 5:23-24 "Let wives be subject to their husbands as to the Lord; because a husband is the head of the wife, just as Christ is head of the Church, being himself savior of the body. But just as the Church is subject to Christ, so also let the wives be to their husbands in all things."

The church is subject to only one head and that is Christ.

39 posted on 06/29/2011 12:38:33 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear
Jesus called Peter Cephas which is Aramaic the language that Jesus spoke and means rock.

Thank you.

In Greek the word is Petros and in English it is Peter. Wow! Wasn’t that neat?

Yes, it was. Cephas = rock = Peter.

It still doesn’t mean that the church is built upon Peter as the foundation.

I can understand why some take that interpretation of the Scripture:

    "And I also say to you that you are Peter [rock - as CynicalBear said above], and on this rock I will build My church"

I shouldn’t have said “the Father”

OK. Thanks.

Neither is the Pope the head of the church.

No, Christ is the head of the Church.

The church is subject to only one head and that is Christ.

Amen.

40 posted on 06/29/2011 12:50:54 PM PDT by Titanites
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