Posted on 07/05/2011 3:59:07 AM PDT by Cronos
As an out Presbyterian preacher, I'd experienced prejudice before. But nothing like what I faced in North Carolina
I was reading "Home in Henderson" -- the unofficial city website for a small town in North Carolina where I had recently moved to preach -- when I came across the blog entry. It was posted under the pseudonym "Church Reporter."
"A friend that attends the First Presbyterian Church told me to do a Google search on their new minister Brett Webb-Mitchell," the entry began. "Having done so, I have only three comments to make on the pastor selection: 1. Who is responsible for this mess? 2. The old biblical saying (the Lord works in mysterious ways) must be true in this case. 3. Someone needs to appoint a new membership search committee, because I hear the church membership numbers are dropping."
I sat at my computer, stunned.
As a gay minister, I'd heard nasty slights about me secondhand before, but I had never encountered it so directly. How could someone who didn't even know me criticize me? How could someone who called himself or herself a Christian spew such vile rhetoric? I was sad and angry and incredulous at once. This was a cheap, hateful shot.
(Excerpt) Read more at salon.com ...
Exactly.
sorry, but that's just what the Baptists did....Catholicism predates the Baptists by 1,500 years or more...Along came the "reformation"(revolution) and the protestants picked and chose as each denomination viewed things diffferently By the way, to all the do-gooders out there....that Minister, if he is not participating in homosexual behavior.is not sinning...having homosexual leanings is not the sin, acting on them is
“And we will have to disagree on that, because nothing in the Bible says Christ established a denomination. That is your Catholic outlook”
It has exactly zero to do with me and everything to do with what scripture actually says.
Christ says, I will build my church upon this rock. How that becomes a screed against the organization of the church baffles me.
“I don’t consider it a waste of shelf space. My private library is over 10,000 volumes and at the moment we are in the process of turning into a (private) town library.”
I don’t have the resources to commit to such an endeavour and most of my books do not travel with me.
“The best way to defeat the opposing arguments is to know their arguments which is why I still have most of my books on Mormonism.”
Granted, to a point. But all libraries reflect the philosophies of their owner.
“I will be glad to list some for you as I unpack them.”
Thank you for indulging my request. I am curious as to your position because it’s not an argument that I’ve encountered previous. I suspect I know the authors, but I am unwilling to assume.
“The bride of Christ ia the body of all Christians regardless of where they go to church.”
So the husband is not faithful to his bride?
His Bride is the entire body of believers. It is you who are improperly defining ‘church’.
It has exactly zero to do with me and everything to do with what scripture actually says.
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It has to do with what scripture in the GREEK says and ekklesia is not an organization (or denomination).
The ROCK is Christ, not Peter.
I don’t have the resources to commit to such an endeavour and most of my books do not travel with me.
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We moved a couple of years ago, and last year bought the old school in town as an office building. So, this year, we were able to move our books from my mother’s ranch house (where they have lived for most of the past 10 years) to our new building in our new state.
We have been blessed with such a collection, and many of them came from when I owned my Computer consultation/website programming business. Used bookstore owners in the 1990’s needed/wanted databases and or websites but never have any money. So I would do a trade out - a website and/or database in exchange for book credit. I would scout out antiquarian bookstores, show them my work and make an offer, which they often took. In exchange for the work, I could easily get $1500 in book credit and that is a large factor in the expansion of our library.
I love books, and I have a large selection, including what I expect to be one of the largest history and theology libraries in the state when we open. Our decision to open it to the public was a desire to share our love and passion for books with others.
You are so very wrong. You will not come up with any examples of doctrine developing that way in the Catholic Church in 2000 years ... why would we start now?
Marian apparitions can't produce new dogma, and they certainly can't produce new dogma that shreds old dogma. Popes don't receive "divine revelations". (Call Salt Lake City for that.)
No "translation of a long lost apostolic father" could produce new dogma, and especially not new dogma that shreds old dogma, nor could any work of a "long lost apostolic father"
But all libraries reflect the philosophies of their owner.
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I suppose that is true if you assume that all books in the library were purchased directly by the owner.
However, for many years we have become a repository of books that people no longer wanted or needed or for books that had special value to someone but didn’t have anyone to give them to.
Example, my college professor. When she passed, she knew her children would not want the books, and she valued my work as a Bible scholar and historian. Leaving me her library was a trust and a compliment. An older couple we know, gave us their personal library when they moved because their new assisted living apartment didn’t have the room and they didn’t want the books to go to the thrift shop. I have about 100 textbooks from the 1880s that I found in the storage house of my grandparents farm.
Family members have donated old books because of our reputation for caring for them and my ability to do extensive repairs on antiquarian books. A former B list actress who lived in Palm Springs, gave us some of her books because she wanted them to go to a ‘good home’. A Mormon friend of mine who moved recently didn’t have room to take her books and gave them to me instead, knowing that I am an ‘antiMormon’.
Couple that with our flat refusal to ‘deaquistion’ ANY book at all (even mass market paperbacks), and you will find that your idea that a library reelects the philosophy of the owner does not stand. I have many books that I do not agree with but nevertheless are in our library and I have no intention of getting rid of.
Yes. True. But if you read original article he as a partner with his kids.
This is the line that got me.
(Him reading from a blog) “We already have an adult bookstore trying to come to town, so I guess the next thing will be a gay bar.” Reading this last blog, I couldn’t help but think: How nice would that be — a bar that was at least friendly?”
How nice it would be if a nice, friendly gay bar showed up?
Is he crazy? Where I live, the old ladies of the church went outside the clubs and sang hymns on Sundays. They were full of people going to hell, doncha know.
For the “pastor” to say this shows how clueless he is, even as a joke.
Well, they know he is a gay minister and that is all they need to know.
They need to know the guy is thinner-skinned than half of FReepers are. Seriously, if you are going to be a preacher, you need to be able to take the heat, and this guy just didn’t, so he pretty much proved to the congregation that he wasn’t fit to be minister. If someone wants to be something they’ve got to take something hard at the start, but then again, I wonder if this guy was ever part of some serious training in a seminary, I doubt it though.
No, his bride is the church. Not one of many. We are supposed to be in union with one another.
This ‘invisible’ body of Christ doesn’t appare anywhere in the New Testament.
I don't like the perverts always referring to me as "straight". How about normal and abnormal?
Yeah, but we can expect plenty of these same babies to bother suing us in the years to come, because they feel that they’re entitled to us. This isn’t just a gay problem, it’s a problem spanning all over America, people feel that they’re so entitled to staying members of a church, staying as such noble leaders, etc. But when it comes to having to face the kind of hardships that come with being a newbie, people walk away and go, “mom, he refused me”, or “mom, he said something I don’t like” kind of mantra. That of all things disgusts me heavily. The funny thing about comparisons to the Civil Rights groups is that while some people perservered at the serious threat to themselves, or even their children, numerous people nowadays take even less pressure just to quit and whine.
This ‘invisible’ body of Christ doesn’t appare anywhere in the New Testament.
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It appears all over the NT, and in the Greek, the meaning of the word (assembly, legistlature, lit. ‘called out ones’) does not refer EVER to an organization like you are using it.
The problem is you are redefining the Greek using the modern definition of Church (organization/denomination).
That isn’t what the Greek says at all, both in canonical and extra-canonical sources.
And I agree there is only ONE Bride of Christ. It is just not as narrow as you think it is.
Words mean things. BTW, how much Greek have you had in your studies?
“It appears all over the NT, and in the Greek, the meaning of the word (assembly, legistlature, lit. ‘called out ones’)”
Where does ‘called out ones’ have them as invisible?
“does not refer EVER to an organization like you are using it.”
The Church instituted a threefold structure of priests, bishops and deacons. Also in Acts. So yes, the church had structure, it had visibility. Any of the 500 could be called upon to give account of the risen Lord. That’s precisely the opposite of an ‘invisible’ body.
“The problem is you are redefining the Greek using the modern definition of Church (organization/denomination)”
Actually, I’m using scripture to show how the early church was formed and developed.
“That isn’t what the Greek says at all, both in canonical and extra-canonical sources.”
Scripture is pretty clear that there was a concrete organisation associated with the Church in the book of Acts.
“And I agree there is only ONE Bride of Christ. It is just not as narrow as you think it is.”
Actually, we don’t agree at all. You are saying there are many brides, and that the brides should not be forthcoming. That the bride is invisible!
“Words mean things. BTW, how much Greek have you had in your studies?”
Enough to know that ekklesia says nothing about an invisible body. That is an argument that is very, very modern. Part of this movement you’ve spent pages condemning.
“Perhaps not ... but all it will take is one appearance of Mary declaring otherwise, one divine revelation to a pope, or one translation of a long lost apostolic father to change that.”
Should you wish to argue that, go ahead, but there’s little to no reason why some “revelation” would condemn what is foundational scripture to the church. Again, there are places for people with said inclinations in church, but acting on inclinations in an improper way is wrong. Catholicism also has no problem with celibacy, or not being in the business of marriage, dating etc., because of your sinful inclinations, or because you really wish to serve God full-time. That being said, the matter is fairly settled.
Just because claimed “revelations” or claimed “Messiahs” can happen doesn’t mean there has to be a doctrinal change either, the diverse religions on Earth attest to that quite well.
This story hit the Henderson Dispatch yesterday.
http://www.hendersondispatch.com/pages/full_story_free/push?blog-entry-Gay+minister+writes+about+experiences+in+Henderson%20&id=14590342
No one I asked really had any information.
Here is his last blog post as interim at the church. He left Henderson almost 2 years ago which may explain why neither I nor anyone I know can remember hearing about it. Old news if it even was news.
http://fpchenderson.blogspot.com/
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