Skip to comments.Is Islam "Mystery Babylon" of End Times?
Posted on 07/07/2011 10:15:16 PM PDT by ScubieNuc
Who is the Scarlet Whore who sits on the Beast
First we should consider what it means that the Whore sits on the beast. Walid Shoebat reasons by interpreting mountains as nations / empires and not as hills, the seventh beast empire was Islamic ending with the fall of the Ottoman Empire in 1922AD. Revelation 13 claims that the head will be revived. That is, the Islamic empire will be rejuvenated coming from the same persecuting empires that preceded it, but NOT including Rome. This is a clear indication that the eighth beast empire will be Islamic, NOT Roman.
We have shown that the Babylon in the End-Times is Arabia and that the last beast empire is Islamic. Also, Mecca is the spiritual home of all Muslims and that the kingdom of Saudi Arabia which controls Mecca is corrupting nations with its oil wealth. We should consider how Mecca / the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia fits the whore of Babylon. As the spiritual home of Islam, Mecca rules (influences) over 1.5 billion people on this planet, in every country. The colour scarlet denotes royalty and of course the Royal House of Saud controls Mecca, the spiritual home of Islam. Mecca causes people to fly planes into buildings, to blow up infrastructure, to strap bombs on themselves to blow up the Kuffaar, and to behead infidels shouting Allahu Akbar.
(Excerpt) Read more at islammonitor.org ...
I can imagine a scenario where Iran nukes, Saudi Arabia, blames Israel and the US. This would eliminate all Islamic/Arab opposition and would unit many other Arab nations to march to their orders. It would also cause Muslims in the US to react quite violently.
Especially in light of the "Chrislam" religion promoted by Rick Warren (The Purpose Driven Life) and Robert Schuller (TV New-Age/Feel-Good-Christianity Preacher).
It supposedly "melds" the best of the two religions together...which is apostacy.
Matthew 24:24 "For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect."
Wow! I had never heard of “Chrislam” before, or of Rick Warrens endorsing this apostasy. [[[shaking head]]]
Thanks for the heads up.
I only learned of it fairly recently. Google it...it’s pretty alarming to me.
I just did. You are correct, very alarming stuff.
Scarlet (from the Persian سآقرلآت säqirlāt)
Babylon is Persia and Iran is PERSIA, not saudi arabia. Iran is trying to revive an islamist version of the Persian Empire which includes Iraq, (Babylon,) and they are succeeding.
U.S. TO HELP REBUILD CITY OF BABYLON IN IRAQ
obama was elected in 2008 and since he has been in office, Iran has been his pet.
This week, Iran and Iraq have signed 6 memoranda of understanding and our soldiers have returned to being cannon fodder thanks to Iran's very visible interference in Iraq. obama has allowed this, even mandated it by his policies.
As Americans shed their blood, Babylon rises. LITERALLY
Interesting. Thanks for posting.
I actually have been thinking on this independently.
Christ said the last days will be “as the days of Noah”, and I’ve often wondered about that. One of my thoughts has been that in those days, among all the world, there were only 8 righteous- Noah and his family.
Where in the earth today is absolute uniformity of a false religion, that there would be only a hidden family here and there that would be righteous before the Lord? Islamic countries.
It’s just a thought I had, but I’ve been wondering about it.
Babylon is Iraq, is that not right?
Saddam Hussein considered himself to be the reincarnation of the Babylonian king Nebuchadnezzar.
However, I will not debate this, as I do not claim to be any kind of expert.
>>It would also cause Muslims in the US to react quite violently.<<
If they did, they would be wiped out in short order. So would Dearborn.
I see, you already posted this... Iran and Iraq were both Persia.
Forgive my lack of reading comprehension. lol
Babylon was the beautiful Persian capital city in which Nebuchadnezzar resided. And yes, it was in what is NOW Iraq...and is NOW being rebuilt at great expense, (with OUR help,) to what seems to be its original design with all the opulence and splendor it once had including the fabulous Hanging Gardens. Babylon is the reason Iran wants Iraq so badly. A restoration of Persia with Babylon as its capital.
First, thanks for responding with your input. You may be correct. I’m not claiming to be a Biblical scholar, just a Christian seeking to understand the Bible and my role as a Christian today. That includes end times prophesies.
My two comments are:
1) Revelation is a complicated book, filled with images and symbology. I don’t claim to have it completely understood, but I’m working at learning.
2) I used to think of the “Whore of Babylon” more along the lines of Rome/the Catholic Church/or the apostate Christian Church. This article along with some others have opened my eyes to a different angle. All in all, it’s very interesting.
Maybe it is *complicated* because church hierchies do not want you to think you have an understanding beyond what they say. Common sense and logic will take you a long way. Sometimes, it means exactly what it says. If you question, it is considered blasphemy.
It is a debate I have often had with my own Rabbis because I KNOW that the Hebrew Mystics in ancient times wanted to hold to their power and set themselves up as the keepers of G-d’s *secrets.* It is a device of man, not G-d.
G-d gave us the power of understanding. Use it or lose it.
John Piper Interviews Rick Warren on Doctrine
"This 98 minute interview that I did with Rick Warren was recorded on May 1, 2011, during the Desiring God Regional Conference at Saddleback Church. It's the fulfillment of a commitment we made when Rick was not able to come in person to the Desiring God National Conference in Minneapolis in October, 2010.
"The nature of the interview is mainly doctrinal. I read Ricks The Purpose Driven Life with great care. I brought 20 pages of quotes and questions to the interview. You will hear me quote the book dozens of times. With these quotes as a starting point I dig into Ricks mind and heart on all the issues listed below (with the times that they begin on the video)."
Now, playing games with "when", that means 1979 for Iran then add seventy years, and you have Iran as toast around 2049 no matter what happens. That's also about a lifespan past when Arafat dedicated himself to Islamic Revolution rather than Marxist Revolution. IOW, right after he returned to the fold of faithful Moon God worshipers making it impossible for anyone other than Islamic Radicals to get popular support and survive. In addition, 1979 is the year when the generals in Turkey first decided that a coup was required and began deciding when to act. In 1980 they staged a coup, had a new constitution drawn up around 1982, and in doing so created the Turkey we all deal with these day. So, 1979 is a critical and Bada Bing, Bada Boom, you have a whole new time-line to market. The beauty of it is that you need only minor changes to the way people currently interpret the better known Scripture passages and you can make it all fit. Just think what a great mew mix you can come up with if you spend a few weeks on it?
Personally I think there are an endless number of ways you can play games with Scripture and events to come up with your own interpretation of prophecy. I think Shoebat is right about the Antichrist rising out of Islam because it fits all the criteria of being anti-Christ and is clearly anti-Christian. Beyond that, I don't care about End Times theories, particularly those that include "The Bestselling Rapture Doctrine" as one of the hooks to sell books.
A friend gave me a book by Shoebat because he says many of the same things I've said over the years when I would criticize popular prophecy theories. Otherwise, I wouldn't know who he is. What he has to say makes at least as much sense as the more popular and more widely accepted interpretations and in my opinion is more solidly grounded in history. There are a lot more important things to focus on than prophecy, though. First and foremost accepting that Christ is your only way to Salvation, then making sure you're carrying your cross and following Him.
But that's all just my opinion and everyone has an opinion. Especially those folks who insist that individual revelation ended with the Apostles but make a very comfortable living by marketing and selling their opinions as if they're individual revelation that allows them to interpret His Word better than anyone else can.
sorry, but that is a crappy video. I didn’t even finish it and found two blatant spelling mistakes.
I have little doubt that what it says is true but, if you want to accuse people by name give examples.
That said, yes I think Islam plays an extremely important role in the end times (soon to come).
"The seven mountains of Revelation are taken to be the seven hills of Rome. This is wrong on two counts. Mountains are identified with heads, so must be nations (not hills), and Rome has 8 hills if you count the Vatican! "
I think Shoebat is half right here.
What Revelation is talking about is the Empire--specifically the Empire under Nero. The 7 hills metaphor would have been instantly picked up on by the ancients. So I think it certainly does have some application to the Roman Empire.
BUT he's certainly right about the Vatican, as it has never been considered one of the 7 hills. So lumping the Roman Church in with the Roman Empire in this verse is problematic to say the least. That notion probably got grafted on to this verse for polemical reasons at the time of the Reformation.
Also, I think his comments about the X Fretensis are a bit strained. The Thracians were European, and I'm guessing the Legion would have been looked at as a projection of Roman power rather than of any ethnic groups who might have made it up.
But on the whole, definitely food for thought.
But also as a corrective, to give encouragement to the Christians living today, showing how the early Christian Church kept the faith.
Very true. The book was not written TO us but FOR us.
Just an aside—of sorts. I agree the Revelation of Jesus Christ was written long ago to a people under vastly different circumstance —in some respect. But it has relevance even today in my unlearned opinion. I once heard this whore of Babylon was described as Jerusalem (who had turned from her established center of Hebrew thought- see several Old Testament prophetic books) Another thought it described Rome.
I have in my rebellious way called the City of Denver under the Democratic Party/”progressive” influence— and more recently Washington D.C. (even drew a rather poor quality political cartoon once imaging the ACLU as the whore of Babylon) My only defense for any of this is I see in the example of Scripture -what I see in the Genesis example of the utter destruction of Sodom ,Gomorrah, and the Cities round about. How New Testament writers seem to suggest they were given as our example of how God responds to unrighteousness -and how He provides a way of escape to those obedient to Him.
A new take on end times.
The Chrislam— idea is an interesting speculation. It may well be worthy of more thought. I cannot join the apostacy of the WCC. And I wonder if Rick Warren and these others in agreement with him are not as beguiling as the World Council of Churches. (trying to form a new religion -an algagamation
of not only Christianity—but Islam.creating a super cult for the end times?)
In my wildest nightmares I have never imagined that such a horrid chimera could arise. I am slowly being convinced the C.S. Lewis was a real prophet, not just a Christian apologist and philosopher.
Interesting but have you read any of Joel Rosenberg’s books? He is a messianic jew and writes fiction but includes his own take on Biblical prophesy.
As I understand his interpretation, the fanatical muslims [and all who oppose Israel] will be supernaturally wiped-out w/ the apocalypse [apocalypse is not armageddon] when Israel no longer has any allies in the world and all the nations surrounding Israel and Russia conspire to wipe Israel off the map.
After all of these fulfilled apocalyptic prophecies then it paves the way for a one world religion, monetary system, and language. I do think the one world religion will appear to be a type of christianity except it will accept the Anti-christ as messiah.
Is this related?
Iran Steps Up Anti-US Rhetoric, Tightens ties with Iraq, Afghanistan
True, it is a crappy video, and I just picked it in haste from the myriads of things I could have presented. I should have taken more time and chosen a better example.
Bad on me.
But do a little research (Google), and I think you will be alarmed about Chrislam.
Another new take on end times.
There have been hundreds of them.
I agree with that for the most part. The same can be said of the Olivet discourse. However, I think some part of Revelation may be about future times. At 20: 7, Satan is unbound as Christ's millennial reign ends. That could well refer to a time not too distant.
How does Mohammedanism go about “Fooling the Very Elect?” If for no other reason, I disagree with your OP because of this question. There is no Christian worth his salt that is fooled by Islam, even for a moment.
I agree with you - but only to a point. The deception is very strong. VERY strong. The phrase is such as to suggest that it even may cause the weak among the elect to waiver (if it were possible).
There are none here that would be impressed by Islam, no matter what they do - and that is assuming 'here' is a fair cross-section of the qualified elect (I think it is a liberal position to declare everyone here among the elect). This is not a strong delusion. It deludes the heathen, and it deludes those not serious or educated in their faith (those who are not armored) in syncretism (chrislam), but it is laughable doctrine to those who have even a passing knowledge of the Bible (despite our wide and varied differences).
However, I can imagine a sinario where say Mecca and Medina are smoking ruins and the new head or focal point of Islam comes out and presents a different face. I could see where this person admits to the wrongs of the "former" Islamic structure and provides security and food and water to those in need. Combine that with a "false prophet" who does things like brings water from rocks or calls fire down from heaven, many people can be mislead by this kind of "new face" of Islam.
One can imagine any number of scenarios, but that is just imagination, and not yet made tenable by observable and historical fact. And further, while the OP does raise some comparisons to the whore, there are many that are left out (where are her daughters, this 'mother' of harlots?).
And the OP suggests a cup full of oil, while the Bible clearly demonstrates a cup full of fornications. The premise is a seduction of the kings of the earth by the means of false doctrines and syncretisms (lying with other 'gods' yet calling herself 'of YHWH'), not by the means of addiction to oil, or by attraction to her wealth. It is her abominations that are the focus, and these are her seductions that woo her lovers.
And again, the OP suggests the colors she wears point to Saudi royalty, which I find to be preposterous - these colors are the colors of the Levitical priesthood - Except that one color is missing - and that is the relevant clue. An Old Covenant search for the meaning of this will be greatly rewarded.
In concluding, I would submit that Islam is in contention for this title, but I find it very unlikely that she will finally be able to fit all of the descriptors of the whore- and missing any one of those descriptors would quickly discount her as ineligible.
You raise some good points. One of the articles I just got done reading today was pointing out how the “great city Babylon” mentioned in Revelation, could easily be describing America.
One aspect I think of when I think of a whore is someone who gives their affection or services for a profit and not for love. In many ways that describes our current economic, capitalistic system.
Now as that relates to a religion or followers of Christ, the Church of Jesus is his “bride”, devoted to Jesus. A “whore” religion is giving it’s devotion to whomever pays and not Jesus.
In that sense, you wouldn’t just has Muslims as the “whore” but any religious group that doesn’t place it’s devotion on Christ. That could be churches that call themselves, Christian, but in their heart, they are really just about getting what’s most pleasurable to themselves.
One other interesting puzzle is that the “whore” which “rides on the back” of the beast, gets devowered by the very beast it rides on. I could see that as meaning the rulers (heads of the beast) conspire to destroy or attack all religions. That could mean something like a combined athiestic governmental attack on both Christianity and Islam (and maybe all other religions as well).