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Anglican Church ‘may cease to exist in 20 years’
Yorkshire Post ^ | 13 July 2011 | Yorkshire Post

Posted on 07/14/2011 6:09:32 AM PDT by Cronos

The Church of England will no longer be “functionally extant” in 20 years time according to some projections, a member of the General Synod has warned.

The Rev Dr Patrick Richmond, from Norwich, told members of the Church’s national assembly that they were facing a “perfect storm” of ageing congregations and falling clergy numbers.

The average age of congregations was 61, with many above that, he said.

“These congregations will be led by fewer and fewer stipendiary clergy ... 2020 apparently is when our congregations start falling through the floor because of just natural wastage, that is people dying.

“Another 10 years on, some extrapolations put the Church of England as no longer functionally extant at all.”

The first Church Estates Commissioner Andreas Whittam Smith said the demographic “time bomb of 2020” for Anglicans was a “crisis”,

“One problem may be that decline is so slow and imperceptible that we don’t really see it coming clearly enough,” he said.

“We know about it in theory but we don’t really know about it in practice.”

He added: “I wish that all of us would have a sense of real crisis about this.”

(Excerpt) Read more at yorkshirepost.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Current Events; General Discusssion; Mainline Protestant
KEYWORDS: anglican; churchofengland; coe; england
he is unfortunately correct.
1 posted on 07/14/2011 6:09:37 AM PDT by Cronos
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To: Cronos

“The average age of congregations was 61, with many above that, he said.”

Um, I’m guessing that about half are above that and half are below 61.


2 posted on 07/14/2011 6:15:27 AM PDT by JBR34
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To: Cronos

i’m her 8th old man named Henery, Henery the VIIIth I am


3 posted on 07/14/2011 6:15:55 AM PDT by babble-on
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To: Cronos

Leftist ideologies mixed with theology leads to heresies. The Anglican church has been wracked by heresies for 40 years or more. The death of this church will be a deserved one as they have largely left Christ behind and picked up the torch of social justice. (The same can be said of several other mainline churches.)


4 posted on 07/14/2011 6:18:42 AM PDT by 17th Miss Regt
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To: Cronos

Maybe being the first Christian denomination to cave on contraception back in 1930 wasn’t such a good idea after all ...


5 posted on 07/14/2011 6:20:39 AM PDT by Campion ("Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies when they become fashions." -- GKC)
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To: Campion

If being socially relevant is your goal, you will become socially-irrelevant.


6 posted on 07/14/2011 6:24:03 AM PDT by rstrahan
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To: Campion
it's incredible how one little step on the slippery slope can lead to destruction. They approved of contraception in the 1930s, then ok to divorce, divorced pastors, pastoresses, "tolerance of gays", bishopesses, gay "celibate" pastors and pastoresses and finally gay marriage and gay married pastors and pastoresses.

And within a hundred years that denomination disappears

7 posted on 07/14/2011 6:27:00 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: Cronos

“These congregations will be led by fewer and fewer stipendiary clergy...”

What does ‘stipendiary clergy’ mean? Government-paid clergy?


8 posted on 07/14/2011 6:27:07 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: rstrahan

If you look at the Lutheran ELCA churches people are leaving them like no tomorrow because they are so Leftist.


9 posted on 07/14/2011 6:28:35 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Cronos

Well, when the UK and the rest of Europe separated themselves from spiritual belief and decided to embrace secularism, it left the vacuum that nature so abhors.

Not hard to guess who’s stepping up to fill that spiritual vacuum.


10 posted on 07/14/2011 6:30:19 AM PDT by ScottinVA (As a party that gives Obama what he wants, what again is the GOP`s 2012 selling point?)
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To: Cronos

11 posted on 07/14/2011 6:41:25 AM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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To: Jack Hydrazine

Bingo. We couldn’t leave our old ELCA church fast enough. The Music Director (who was gay) thought it was hysterical that the church next to the meeting hall where the ELCA bigwigs decided to allow Gay and Lesbian clergy got hit by lightning within hours of the decision.
That Church has become one big leftist social club.


12 posted on 07/14/2011 6:46:20 AM PDT by GeorgeTex (Obama-Four M President (Mendacious Manchurian Muslim Marxist))
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To: ScottinVA
"western" europe :) Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, Croatia are quite religious (Hungary recently amended its Constitution to start with
“We are proud that our King Saint Stephen has created our country, Hungary, with strong foundations at a thousand years had taken our country as member of Christian Europe” and "God bless Hungary"

“it protects the institution of marriage as between a man and a woman, a matrimonial relation, voluntarily established”.

and Russia is returning in droves back to Christianity.

13 posted on 07/14/2011 6:47:38 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: GeorgeTex

did you join the LCMS, if I might add? I think it’s a very conservative Lutheran Church, no gay pastors, no pastoresses, no nonsense.


14 posted on 07/14/2011 6:50:07 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: Cronos

“Another 10 years on, some extrapolations put the Church of England as no longer functionally extant at all.”

Maybe because they use words like “extant” instead of presenting relevant teaching in normal English to a younger population. Don’t get me wrong, there’s a place for churchy language, but not when you’re trying to make a point to the world at large.


15 posted on 07/14/2011 6:51:08 AM PDT by jagusafr ("We hold these truths to be self-evident...")
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To: rstrahan

Exactly. By giving away to every PC social issue they have resigned themselves to moral ambiguity.

“Do you own thing, Man. It’s cool. Who am I to judge your behavior as good or evil. In fact, it’s not necessary to go to church or even bring you children up with a religious education”


16 posted on 07/14/2011 6:51:26 AM PDT by WaterBoard
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To: 17th Miss Regt
"...wracked by heresies for 400 years or more" There, I fixed it for you
17 posted on 07/14/2011 6:55:55 AM PDT by donmeaker (I)
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To: jagusafr

that’s something I think about too — I think we need to retain the beauty and prayerfulness of the original liturgy, but sermons or discussing like this “extant” are not “churchy” language, rather a lame attempt at obfuscation by utilizing obscure words


18 posted on 07/14/2011 6:58:17 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: Campion
Maybe being the first Christian denomination to cave on contraception back in 1930 wasn’t such a good idea after all ... ROTFLMAO! So caving on contraception is the culprit? LOL!
19 posted on 07/14/2011 7:02:23 AM PDT by Tennessean4Bush (An optimist believes we live in the best of all possible worlds. A pessimist fears this is true.)
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To: Campion
Maybe being the first Christian denomination to cave on contraception back in 1930 wasn’t such a good idea after all ...
ROTFLMAO! So caving on contraception is the culprit? LOL!
20 posted on 07/14/2011 7:02:45 AM PDT by Tennessean4Bush (An optimist believes we live in the best of all possible worlds. A pessimist fears this is true.)
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To: Cronos

Funny though that the conservative evangelical Anglican Churches I know are booming. Lefties and homos really don’t want to go to church and believe so changing the church to suit them was the worst ever possible decision - whereas concervative Christians will go just about every week and put their money in the collection plate as well.

Mel


21 posted on 07/14/2011 7:03:36 AM PDT by melsec
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To: Cronos

We did. A couple with whom we are friends practically had us riding into their church on a donkey. We have now become members of this LCMS church. The husband and I joke that we are the youth group at this church (we are both in our fifties). But, everyone there has made us feel more than welcome.


22 posted on 07/14/2011 7:05:30 AM PDT by GeorgeTex (Obama-Four M President (Mendacious Manchurian Muslim Marxist))
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To: Cronos

The light of Christ has been shining stronger in the East, as it dies in the West.


23 posted on 07/14/2011 7:10:42 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: melsec

yes, you are correct. i feel sorry for those guys, they are needlessly clubbed with the Gene-Robinson types.


24 posted on 07/14/2011 7:14:17 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: GeorgeTex

Wow! I bet bigwigs just shrugged that off to coincidence. I am confident America will survive this time period of insanity we see being implemented from the top down, learn from it, and thrive because America is becoming more and more conservative as time goes by.


25 posted on 07/14/2011 7:18:59 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Cronos
"Western" Europe.

You are absolutely right... I should've drawn that distinction. Those former Warsaw Pact countries (excluding Russia) also have a low number of muslims as well.

26 posted on 07/14/2011 7:31:08 AM PDT by ScottinVA (As a party that gives Obama what he wants, what again is the GOP`s 2012 selling point?)
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To: ScottinVA

Not hard to guess who’s stepping up to fill that spiritual vacuum.
///
agreed.
and the Muslim birthrate is booming, with “Muhammad” the most common baby name in London.
they have already started taking over unused churches, and turning them into Masjids.

...1200 years after Charles Martel defeated 50,000
Europe is welcoming millions of muslims, and even supporting their birthrate financially.

Mark Steyn said it all in the title. “America Alone”.


27 posted on 07/14/2011 7:33:33 AM PDT by Elendur (the hope and change i need: Sarah / Colonel West in 2012)
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To: Cronos

I think the Anglican church in England is a superb example of the *need* for a *real* “separation between church and state.” That is, a state religion is just out of place in the modern world. Not the nonsense about it that happens in the US.

In the rest of the world, the Anglican communion is very potent, and growing, especially in Africa, and at the expense of Islam.

So the question becomes, what is in store for Anglicanism in England?

Probably the best bet, which the government would likely never take, would be that the great cathedrals and churches be “privatized”, in a way, as part of the Catholic special ordinariate. Doubtless there would be bitter acrimony from Protestant religions to doing this, as well as from others, from Muslim to atheist, who would want to see these buildings either razed or converted into mosques.


28 posted on 07/14/2011 7:34:41 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: Cronos

“... and Russia is returning in droves back to Christianity. “
///
great post!
...and many Russians never left, except “officially”.
i had the honor to attend some small rural services in Russia, and was very impressed with the quiet devotion.
(no pews or seats either. standing, or kneeling on stone floor only.)

and Moscow denied gays permission to even have a “parade”,
even after the EU threatened them with charges of “human rights violations”.


29 posted on 07/14/2011 7:37:34 AM PDT by Elendur (the hope and change i need: Sarah / Colonel West in 2012)
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To: Tennessean4Bush
I didn't use the word "culprit," but it was either the beginning of the end or a prominent signpost along the way.

Big mountains fall one rock at a time. When you depart from Christian orthodoxy on one point, it's like dominoes falling, but much more slowly. If you want an example that's more recent, look at the various liberal Prot denominations which started ordaining women in the 70's ... and unchaste homosexuals 40 years later.

30 posted on 07/14/2011 7:51:00 AM PDT by Campion ("Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies when they become fashions." -- GKC)
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To: JBR34

Nope. You’re confusing “median” with “average.”

Since it’s quite possible for youthful parishes to proliferate, it’s quite possible for there to be exceptionally young parishes, with average ages significantly below the median. OTOH, with the normal age so high, it’s not likely that there are parishes with average ages significantly above the median. This means that the average is likely to be below the median.

OTOH, most journalists don’t know the difference between median and average, either, so you’re probably right.


31 posted on 07/14/2011 9:27:03 AM PDT by dangus
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To: Cronos

I thought married priests were supposed to solve these sort of problems. (sarc)


32 posted on 07/14/2011 9:28:02 AM PDT by dangus
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To: Cronos

When this happens, a small coterie of gays will become about a hundred billion dollars wealthier.


33 posted on 07/14/2011 9:30:01 AM PDT by dangus
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To: Cronos
It seems the Gates of Hell are prevailing against it. Who would have thought?

Seriously, though, when you separate sex acts from childbearing and when you equate a sodomite relationship to that of marriage, it's inevitable that you will go the way of the Shakers who had similarly unnatural views of life and human sexuality.
34 posted on 07/14/2011 9:35:38 AM PDT by Antoninus (What part of "I won't vote for Romney under any circumstances" don't you understand?)
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To: Jack Hydrazine
"What does ‘stipendiary clergy’ mean? Government-paid clergy?"

Why, yes, yes it does. If you pay taxes in England, some of your money goes to fund doddering old fools who officiate over Gay Clown Masses.

"And I'm proud (and oh so thankful) to be an American..."

35 posted on 07/14/2011 10:31:30 AM PDT by jboot
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To: Cronos

...”and Russia is returning in droves back to Christianity.”

Can you elaborate Cronos?


36 posted on 07/14/2011 1:31:01 PM PDT by diamond6 (Check out: http://www.biblechristiansociety.com/home.php and learn about the faith.)
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To: Tennessean4Bush; Cronos

I see nothing funny about that.

Contraception is often abortafficient (spelling), and there is absolutely nothing funny about that.


37 posted on 07/14/2011 1:34:24 PM PDT by diamond6 (Check out: http://www.biblechristiansociety.com/home.php and learn about the faith.)
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To: diamond6
I see nothing funny about that. Contraception is often abortafficient (spelling), and there is absolutely nothing funny about that.
Was not laughing at abortion, and that was not written in any way in his post. Your suggestion that contraception is equivalent to abortion will be news to many Protestant believers, but knock yourself out getting the word out. Just don't inject something into my post or the post I was commenting on and then suggest in some way that I endorse or think an abhorrent practice (abortion) is funny. I don't appreciate it.

Your post and its underlying belief suggest to me that you are Catholic, is that correct?

38 posted on 07/14/2011 1:44:47 PM PDT by Tennessean4Bush (An optimist believes we live in the best of all possible worlds. A pessimist fears this is true.)
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To: Tennessean4Bush

One of the mechanisms that oral contraceptives use is preventing implantation in the uterus. The hormones occasionally fail to prevent an ova from being produced. There is another hormone which prevents the uterine wall from accepting this possible fertilized ova.


39 posted on 07/14/2011 2:07:45 PM PDT by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
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To: Campion
Big mountains fall one rock at a time. When you depart from Christian orthodoxy on one point, it's like dominoes falling, but much more slowly. If you want an example that's more recent, look at the various liberal Prot denominations which started ordaining women in the 70's ... and unchaste homosexuals 40 years later.
Nothing institutionalizes an organization like adherence to orthodoxy for its own sake. Trumpeting "orthodoxy" and identifying it as the root cause creates just that mindset, and the organization ceases its primary purpose -- which in this case is to represent the good news of God's love, forgiveness, faith, and hope in the resurrection of Jesus to a lost world. Churches which focus on that simple message of good news and represent it to their communities are vibrant, growing, and relevant in the most important way.

Some churches have accepted people in leadership who demonstrably should not be there, no doubt. Institutions who have lost the ability or will to identify acts that are inconsistent with the good news of our new identity in Christ are organizations in decline, for sure. But the root is the continued lack of focus on the faith, hope, and love that inspire the transformation of the individual, the organization or institution and its members to bear "good fruit." I have (and so have you) sat in churches where adherence to orthodoxy was primary focus and where they would never ever accept any deviation from Scripture -- and they were as dead as a door nail. Just because you dot the i's and cross the t's you will not be justified. Only way is through the transforming love of God, and your faith and hope in the resurrection. Transformation happens one person at a time and infects the institution in a great way. JMHO.

40 posted on 07/14/2011 2:11:02 PM PDT by Tennessean4Bush (An optimist believes we live in the best of all possible worlds. A pessimist fears this is true.)
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To: Straight Vermonter

I have heard that. But identifying allowing contraception as the precipitous watershed event in the life of a church is absurd, imho. It ignores the true root causes, which in the case of the vibrancy (or lack thereof) in a church is loss of focus on the good news.


41 posted on 07/14/2011 2:20:04 PM PDT by Tennessean4Bush (An optimist believes we live in the best of all possible worlds. A pessimist fears this is true.)
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To: diamond6

Well, I only gave that from what I’ve read, not experienced. Religion is getting to play an increasing role in Russia. This is also seen in the number of people attending Divine liturgy each week


42 posted on 07/14/2011 10:00:05 PM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: Tennessean4Bush
it may sound strange, but using drugs that kill off conception reduces sex to just about pleasure and not about the act of love and "go forth and populate the earth".

Acceptance of this means inevitably that it's ok to have sex without thinking, so sex outside marriage is ok, so living in gets to be ok, so homosexual sex is ok, so gay marriage is ok. Someone can be at one end of the scale and not agree with the other, but I'm talking about society as a whole or even take Anglicanism and the UK in particular -- it moved from the point in the 30s when it accepted contraception, right through to now "gay marriage"

43 posted on 07/14/2011 10:03:13 PM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: redgolum

I really, really believe the preponderance of television has had a big role to play in that.


44 posted on 07/14/2011 11:54:50 PM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: GeorgeTex; redgolum

Congratulations! Though the LCMS (as well as all other conservative Churches) should make more efforts to get a younger crowd. The 20 somethings (and I’m a fine one to speak, being a 33 year old!) are too easily grabbed by liberal Churchs. Bring them back to conservatism, don’t give up!


45 posted on 07/14/2011 11:59:18 PM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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