Letter: Polygamy comparison fails [BYU Letter-to-the-Editor]

The Lds church has a pretty loose policy re: illegal aliens. Just a month ago, Lds had two of its branch presidents deported in the same week! See 2 LDS branch presidents in Utah deported to Guatemala, El Salvador

And many grassroots Mormons have objected to the newer Lds "policy" on illegal aliens: Considering The Disconnect Between Some LDS Church Members and Leadership on Immigration

Other Mormons agree with a more liberal approach to illegal aliens. In fact, one late-May letter-writer to the BYU Daily Universe did that -- and it's what prompted the letter we see in this thread.

The late-May letter was from a BYU student from Orem -- see Letter: The right vs. the law...
He claimed that since Mormons disobeyed the law of the land for 50 years (My note: It was actually 80 -- 1831 --> around 1910)...therefore, Mormons could also similarly encourage breaking the law:

...in the case of polygamy, the church’s leaders chose to ignore the law of the land for almost 50 years because they were obeying a higher law — God’s law. Letter: The right vs. the law...

Not so fast, claims this fellow BYU student letter writer – Colin Mann from Oregon, who defends Mormon polygamy as being God-commanded. Interesting. Two Mormons. Both commending breaking the laws of the land…one 19th century; the other 21st century. Remind me again as to why the Mormons' gods either alternatively oppose marriage between one man and one woman – or oppose protecting the boundaries and citizenship processes of a nation?

From the letter-to-the-editor: However, illegal immigrants are not commanded by God to sneak into the United States, therefore they have no such conflict between commandments.

#1 As the Mormon “commandment by God” to engage in illegal behavior is so secretive --
– note that Joseph Smith took about a dozen years to confront his first wife with a written “revelation” from the Mormon gods ordering her to go along with polygamy – and another almost decade for Mormon leaders to publish it –
-- how does this BYU student know that aliens haven’t been “commanded” by the Mormon gods “to sneak into the United States?”
Isn’t personal revelation “personal” to the person being commanded by such gods?

#2 And if this command goes beyond just the individual illegal aliens--
–- like perhaps the Mormon gods have commanded illegal aliens to break the law of the land--
-– just like polygamy…
...then maybe Mormons-at-large won’t see that for 20 or so years --
-– just like 1852 published polygamy revelation came after it was occurring as early as 1831!

From the letter-to-the-editor: However, illegal immigrants are not commanded by God to sneak into the United States, therefore they have no such conflict between commandments.

Again, to reiterate “how does this letter writer” know this when his leaders have already allowed for a conflict between commandments?

Mormon leaders tell their faithful not to abortion…unless…and then give a LOT of exceptions. One of those exceptions is if the Mormon god(s) tell(s) a person to go ahead & dismember that baby limb by limb. Isn’t that a conflict ‘tween the general Mormon edict not to abort but if you’ve prayed about, hey, why not?

Official Mormon exception for abortion: Abortion is a most serious matter and should be considered only after the persons involved have consulted with their local church leaders and feel through personal prayer that their decision is correct.
Source: Lds.org PR section: Abortion [& LDS official position]

Sounds like “pro-choice” (pro-decision) theology to me! Why don’t Mormons allow similar “pro-choice” theology for illegal aliens? If a Mormon illegal alien wants to pray about if it’s OK to sneak into the U.S., hey, why not?

From the letter-to-the-editor: What made the church leaders actions permissible was they were directly commanded by God to practice polygamy.

Q #1 If all Mormons were "directly commanded by God to practice polygamy," why didn't they (in the 19th century)? [The majority of Mormon men didn't -- even between the very public Mormon polygamy years of 1852-1890...were these Mormon men directly disobeying the Mormon gods?]

Q #2 If they were "directly commanded by God to practice polygamy," why did it take 21 years from when Joseph Smith initially began the practice (1831) for them to go public with a written commandment (1852)? [The Mormons were forced to go public with a written doctrine after Gunnison's book was published the same year]

Q #3 The Mormon gods could call polygamy an "abomination" in the Book of Mormon; and then command them to practice it from 1831-1890; and then tell them to go underground with it for a while -- but still secretly practice it; and then ex-communicate people for practicing it; doesn't that mean the Mormon gods could re-institute polygamy tomorrow?

Q #4 Isn't Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie on record saying the Mormon god will bring back polygamy -- and command Mormons to once again practice it? [See p. 578, Mormon Doctrine, 1966 version] Why can't the Mormon gods make up their minds if they want guys to have a lot of wives or not?

Q #5 What would a lot of contemporary Mormon women feel about having to practice polygamy in the future? We know for 40% of their parents and grandparents who answered a 1963 survey, it would have been an "easy enough" transition. [I wonder how many of those 40% were men?]

Here's the survey I'm referencing: "Another survey taken in the 1960s found that not only do contemporary church members overwhelmingly disapprove of polygamy but only two in five said they would enter the principle if commanded by the prophets." [B. Carmon Hardy, Solemn Covenant, p. 339, citing survey published in 1963 by John R. Christiansen, "Contemporary Mormons' Attitudes Toward Polygamous Practices," Journal of Marriage and Family 25 (May 1963): pp. 167-170)].

Hmmmmmmmm

12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

Even their AoF is like jello nailed to the wall.

That is just not correct, even as reported in SLC news press. The lds leadership excuses illegals quite frequently, even to the point that some of their missionaries are illegals.

Having a nice Friday Three-Minutes-Hate ?

What made the church leaders actions permissible was they were directly commanded by God to practice polygamy.

Having to choose between the law of God and the law of man, they wisely chose to follow the higher authority.

Colofornian, you better be careful what you post!

It appears that I need remind you that Mormon Church leaders were directly commanded by God to form their version of the Klu Klux Klan (a.k.a. Army of Israel, United Brothers of Gideon, Danites, Nauvoo Legion, and Mormon Militia) and then practice the divinely ordained rites of purification (a.k.a. Blood Atonement), wherein individuals who spake ill of the Saints were used up (i.e. murdered), and their consecrated goods (i.e. personal property) were taken for the benefit of god's chosen (i.e. stolen by the Saints).

Having to choose between the law of God and the law of man, the Saints again may wisely choose to follow the higher authority.

...and so forth.

Twice...

Having to choose between the law of God and the law of man, they wisely chose to follow the higher authority.

MORMON 'leaders' are spineless weasels!

Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriage...

I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws..."

~ Wilford Woodruff, 4th LDS President

Polygamy: How it all got Started

Joe: Hey Emma! Guess what!?

Emma: You KNOW I hate these guessing games! What is it, Dear?

Joe: I heard a voice, probably the Lord, tell me I must take other wives.

Emma: WHAT!? You ding bat! Don't you KNOW what our precious BOOK says? After all; YOU are the one that translated it!

Joe: Books; schmooks. All I know is I've been COMMANDED to take other wives and you are to OBEY ME!!!

Emma: "Though shalt NOT commit ADULTERY!!!"

Joe: Silly Woman! You KNOW better than to take things out of CONTEXT!!!

...and the rest is HISTORY...

THE BOOK OF JACOB
THE BROTHER OF NEPHI

CHAPTER 2

24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.
26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.
32 And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts.

Or even HERE:

1 Timothy 3:2-3
2. Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
3. not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.

1 Timothy 3:12
A deacon must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household well.

Titus 1:6
An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.

Emma: That's IT! I'm LEAVING your sorry *!!!

Joe: DARN you Emma; you were TOLD to accept this!! Wait!!! I hear a voice again!!!

THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS

SECTION 132

  51–57, Emma Smith is counseled (commanded) to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.

  51 Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to ^aprove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice.

  52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, ^areceive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.

  53 For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been ^afaithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him.

  54 And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and ^acleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be ^bdestroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law.

  55 But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an ^ahundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of ^beternal lives in the eternal worlds.

  56 And again, verily I say, let mine handmaid ^aforgive my servant Joseph his trespasses; and then shall she be forgiven her trespasses, wherein she has trespassed against me; and I, the Lord thy God, will bless her, and multiply her, and make her heart to ^brejoice.

Having a nice Friday Three-Minutes-Hate ?

Maam; you have us ALL wrong!

Just because we spend a year or so; going from door to door; trying to explain why CHRISTIANITY is not correct: that don't mean we HATE them!

MORMON 'leaders' are spineless weasels!
Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriage ... I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws...

~ Wilford Woodruff, 4th LDS President

Ha Ha Ha ... the Joke's on you ... Ha Ha Ha

Neither Wilford nor any other member of the ruling members of the Saints ever intended to live up to the terms of the Manifesto. Thus, it was necessary for the U.S. to again threaten to dissolve the Mormon Church as a criminal enterprise, and it was necessary for the Saints to enact the Second ("this time we really mean it") Manifesto ... which also went unenforced until 1923 ... which coincidentally was the same year the FLDS broke away from the main clan.

Therefore, it can be rightfully claimed that Wilford was a spineless weasel. A sneaky, lying, underhanded, and unprincipled weasel ... yes. Spineless ... not so much.

Illegal Immigration and Polygamy are flawed for identical reasons:

They are both:
Against Cultural Norms.
They are against the law.
There is no justification for them.

Both have dilutive qualities:
Polygamy dilutes marriage
Illegal Immigration dilutes Nationality.

It’s too easy to find actual comparisons that are analogous...

They are both ambiguous relationships.

One to a country and another to a wife.

They both force underground societies.

They force people to live on cultural islands separated by cultural bridges on they can cross and pretend to part of something they are not.

They both give me a headache to think about them.

Hate?

Truth.

x

why did it take 21 years from when Joseph Smith initially began the practice (1831) for them to go public with a written commandment

Better question: How did he get away with it for so long before wife #1 caught on?

How did he get away with it for so long before wife #1 caught on?

- - - - -
It didn’t. Emma knew about polygamy after the second or third wife (her best friend Eliza Snow). She had gone to visit her parents and returned to find a pregnant Eliza in her house in her robe. She pushed Eliza down the stairs according to her report.

The revelation on polygamy specifically tells Emma to obey Joseph. She gave in at least once, but had a change of heart a few hours later.

He did most of it on the sly. There is a very sad account, of Emma at a Relief Society (women’s aux) where she is giving a speech on monogamy and the importance of it, not knowing that at least 1/3 of the women in the audience (including Eliza Snow at that point) were ‘married’ and had had sex with her husband.

What made the church leaders actions permissible was they were directly commanded by God to practice polygamy.

Having to choose between the law of God and the law of man, they wisely chose to follow the higher authority.
__________________________________________

So then why are Willard Mitt Romney and the rest of the Mormonmales disobeying the Mormon god or their “highert authority” now ???