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Vatican officials encouraging push to stop communion for pro-abort pols
Life Site News ^ | August 5, 2011 | JOHN-HENRY WESTEN

Posted on 08/05/2011 9:28:09 AM PDT by NYer

----

ROME, August 4, 2011 (LifeSiteNews.com) – Top officials at the Vatican are throwing their support behind pro-life Catholic leaders campaigning against dioceses allowing pro-abortion politicians receive Holy Communion, says one such leader.

American Life League President Judie Brown spoke with LifeSiteNews yesterday about her recent trip to Rome, where she spoke with Vatican officials about Communion for pro-abortion politicians and the changing pro-life landscape in America. 

Cardinal Raymond Burke told Brown to be “persistent” in her campaign to have Canon 915 enforced, she said.

Canon 915 states: “Those upon whom the penalty of excommunication or interdict has been imposed or declared, and others who obstinately persist in manifest grave sin, are not to be admitted to holy communion.”

Brown also noted that Burke encouraged her to make use of the numerous articles he himself has written on the subject

“He encouraged us to be persistent, to use his articles and not to back down from our position which is the same as his,” she said.  “It’s not arbitrary it’s a matter of the law of the church which needs to be enforced.” 

Cardinal Burke, she noted, spoke of applying the sanction called for in canon 915 as “therapeutic” in terms of helping people come back in line with the church.

The fact that many bishops are “not comfortable” about it, said Brown, doesn’t matter.

Brown also addressed at the meeting how intentional distortions of official Church statements have confused Catholics on the abortion issue. 

“In America, conception is defined as implantation, so when the Church makes a statement - Dignitas Personae is the most recent example - our enemies turn around and say even the Church doesn’t believe there’s life before implantation,” Brown explained to Zenit news. 

“Church officials must be clear that when the word conception is used, it means the ‘biological beginning of a person.’”

While in Rome, Brown covered a wide range of topics including America’s growing pro-life youth movement, ad hominem attacks on pro-life Catholics, and the ramifications of a “culture-of-death president.”

“Cardinal Burke is the primary example of being targeted by the media,” she told LifeSiteNews.com. “The reason for that is that he won’t back down. He tells Catholics all the time, including me, to continue to persist in the faith, and he does it.”

“We have every reason to be optimistic. But, all Catholics must stand up and be Catholic even when it’s uncomfortable,” she concluded.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: archbishopburke; cardinalburke; catholicpoliticians; catholicvoter

1 posted on 08/05/2011 9:28:11 AM PDT by NYer
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To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; SumProVita; ...

Papabile ping.


2 posted on 08/05/2011 9:29:20 AM PDT by NYer ("Be kind to every person you meet. For every person is fighting a great battle." St. Ephraim)
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To: NYer

You would think this would have been the policy all along.


3 posted on 08/05/2011 9:31:00 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Palin is coming, and the Tea Party is coming with her.)
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To: NYer

I never cease to be amazed by Obama stickers on cars in church parking lots. Applicable to all denominations/religions.


4 posted on 08/05/2011 9:34:01 AM PDT by TSgt (When in the Course of human events...)
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To: NYer

About 40 years late


5 posted on 08/05/2011 9:34:53 AM PDT by A_Former_Democrat (Just when you think the left can't get any loonier . . .)
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To: NYer

“Cardinal Raymond Burke told Brown to be “persistent” in her campaign to have Canon 915 enforced, she said.”

####

While Archbishop of St. Louis, Cardinal Burke PROACTIVELY told John Kerry he would NOT be receiving Communion, if he attended Mass while on a political stop here in the Gateway City.

I’m still cheering that line in the sand.


6 posted on 08/05/2011 9:38:38 AM PDT by EyeGuy (2012: When the Levee Breaks)
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To: EyeGuy
While Archbishop of St. Louis, Cardinal Burke PROACTIVELY told John Kerry he would NOT be receiving Communion, if he attended Mass while on a political stop here in the Gateway City.

Which is why Kerry went to St. Cronin's where they don't pay attention to any archbishop.

7 posted on 08/05/2011 9:41:05 AM PDT by Desdemona ( If trusting the men in the clergy was a requirement for Faith, there would be no one in the pews.)
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To: NYer
How about stopping abortion at Catholic Hospitals as a good step?

http://liveaction.org/blog/catholic-hospital-in-colorado-won%e2%80%99t-fire-abortionist/

8 posted on 08/05/2011 9:42:48 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$
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To: NYer
As much as I would love to think otherwise, I don't think we can consider Cardinal Burke as papabile. I just don't see that an American has any chance (possibly a black or Hispanic American, but certainly not a white guy).

My hunch is that the next pope will be from Africa or Central/South America.

9 posted on 08/05/2011 9:45:50 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: NYer

There is no dispute about the plain meaning of Canon 915: any person who persists in grave sin in a public manner must be denied communion.

The dispute has to do with the degree of autonomy of the local ordinary. Does this Canon apply equally to the Universal Church, or can different bishops apply it differently? So, for example, can a certain member of the US House of Representatives from San Francisco receive communion in San Francisco, but be denied communion in Washington, D.C.?


10 posted on 08/05/2011 9:50:02 AM PDT by Remole
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To: NYer

It certainly sounds promising, but I’m afraid about 35 years too late.


11 posted on 08/05/2011 9:54:48 AM PDT by Gerish (Feed your faith and your doubts will starve to death.)
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To: NYer

What I wanna know is, why isn’t a potential bishop asked about how they would handle this issue before they’re appointed?


12 posted on 08/05/2011 9:59:11 AM PDT by StonyMan451 (As for me and my household, we will serve the Lord.)
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To: wagglebee

They made similar predictions before Ratzinger was elected.


13 posted on 08/05/2011 10:11:44 AM PDT by I-ambush (I didn't think, I never dreamed, that I would be around to see it all come true-McCartney and Wings)
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To: I-ambush
They made similar predictions before Ratzinger was elected.

They made the prediction about the next pope probably coming from Africa, Central or South America, I don't recall anyone discounting the possibility of another European.

14 posted on 08/05/2011 10:39:04 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: NYer

May Church Teaching be CLEAR, STRONG and full of the joy that truth inevitably brings! May it guide us to repentance, humility and deeper faith.

;-))))


15 posted on 08/05/2011 11:00:23 AM PDT by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo...Sum Pro Vita. (Modified Decartes))
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To: NYer
Bishops have denied communion before
16 posted on 08/05/2011 11:56:53 AM PDT by Coleus (Adult Stem Cells Work, there is NO Need to Harvest Babies for Their Body Parts!)
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To: mad_as_he$$; Judith Anne; Cronos; MarkBsnr
"How about stopping abortion at Catholic Hospitals as a good step?"

Are you taking this position as a faux-Catholic? Maybe you should read what you link before stepping in it again. No abortions are performed at that hospital. Dr. Richard Grossman, who is a part time worker at the Catholic hospital (one day per week) performs abortions on his own time.

Now that you have shot your mouth off again why don't you tell us what you personally have done to stop the scourge of abortion. Have you petitioned politicians, counseled expectant mothers, financially contributed to Pro-Life organizations, protested or blockaded clinics and providers?

Don't bother actually answering, no one will believe you anyway. I'll bet your only involvement is to anonymously slander the Church over this issue from the safety and security of your mom's basement.

17 posted on 08/05/2011 1:00:41 PM PDT by Natural Law (For God so loved the world He did not send a book.)
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To: Natural Law
Ah the old “He didn't do his sin here defense.” Doesn't hold water. Do you think maybe it is just possible that he found his patients in the hospital? Naw that couldn't happen.

How about this one?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2757208/posts

Why do you ping all you minions every post to me?

Are you lonely or is it you can't fight your own battles.

Remember I didn't start the lying and name calling. The CC did.

If you don't care what I say why are you following me around FR? The original post here wasn't to any of your posse.

Stop harassing me!

18 posted on 08/05/2011 1:44:35 PM PDT by mad_as_he$$
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To: mad_as_he$$; Natural Law; Cronos; MarkBsnr

Stop harassing you? After what you have recently done on Catholic Caucus posts to a Catholic n00b? And insisting that you are an “active Catholic”?

What’s the matter, can’t your fellow “active Catholics” post to you?


19 posted on 08/05/2011 2:06:48 PM PDT by Judith Anne ( Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of our death.)
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To: mad_as_he$$
"why are you following me around FR?"

I'm not following you, but like the old saying goes some substances attract flies.

"Stop harassing me!"

LOL. Don't flatter yourself. This isn't about you. I am an equal opportunity poster. If you would research my posting history you will find me often responding to those who lie about the Church. Like another old saying goes, if you don't want people talking about it, don't do it.

20 posted on 08/05/2011 2:18:29 PM PDT by Natural Law (For God so loved the world He did not send a book.)
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To: Judith Anne
LOL calling me “noob”.

Why yes decent respectful Catholics can post to me. I have received several PMs from very nice Catholics. A couple have even offered their apologies for your and others behavior. I told them it is not necessary and not their responsibility to apologize for others behavior.

I will ask my priest tonight if I am committing a sin for discouraging communications from Catholics that insult me and call me a liar.

No I do not want to hear from rude, 10-15 cigarette a day smoking, washed up, hack nurses. In the event you fit any of those criteria I would prefer not to hear from you.

Remember you started the name calling and the lies.

Thanks for allowing me to BTT this with a post!!! Great thread don't you think?

STOP harassing me!!!

21 posted on 08/05/2011 2:35:09 PM PDT by mad_as_he$$
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To: Natural Law

Once again - slow learner.

Stop harassing me and following me around.


22 posted on 08/05/2011 2:37:28 PM PDT by mad_as_he$$
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To: Natural Law

Oh yea, real nice insult. What are you 12?


23 posted on 08/05/2011 2:38:31 PM PDT by mad_as_he$$
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To: mad_as_he$$; MarkBsnr

Whoopsie daisy! Not a good idea to discuss PMs on the threads. Against the rules, in fact.

You do not want to hear from me today, but yesterday it was okay for you to post to me? What happened? Never mind. People can read it for themselves on the threads. All except your posts that were removed, that is.


24 posted on 08/05/2011 2:52:19 PM PDT by Judith Anne ( Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of our death.)
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To: mad_as_he$$; Natural Law

I didn’t see any insult from Natural Law. Picnics attract flies.


25 posted on 08/05/2011 2:54:29 PM PDT by Judith Anne ( Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of our death.)
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To: mad_as_he$$
How about stopping abortion at Catholic Hospitals as a good step?

???

You need to get your facts straight.

26 posted on 08/05/2011 3:06:43 PM PDT by DBeers (†)
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To: Judith Anne
"I didn’t see any insult from Natural Law"

I'm not going to respond to that sort of thing. I don't react quite the same when people lie about me as when they lie about the Church. Especially, when they spend so much time lying about themselves.

Besides, Catholics on FR are constantly coached, admonished and warned to have thick skins and to expect this sort of "public square personal attack" thing. (The fact that such a warning has not been given is even more proof we weren't dealing with a real Catholic.)

27 posted on 08/05/2011 3:33:19 PM PDT by Natural Law (For God so loved the world He did not send a book.)
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To: mad_as_he$$
I will ask my priest tonight if I am committing a sin for discouraging communications from Catholics that insult me and call me a liar.

I'll bet. I don't think it is possible to insult you. But you may wish to check with a priest just the same.

STOP harassing me!!!

Or what? You're going to chain PM dropping F-bombs?


28 posted on 08/05/2011 3:51:42 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: Judith Anne
And apparently -so you and he admit you are flies?
29 posted on 08/05/2011 3:58:35 PM PDT by mad_as_he$$
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To: mad_as_he$$; MarkBsnr; Natural Law

Hmmmm....well, you caught me there. I give up, you are the sweet one, I am terrible and mean to poor little you. I admit it. Thanks for all your edifying posts, I’ve really learned a lot from them.

Have a lovely day, Catholic FRiend.


30 posted on 08/05/2011 4:05:05 PM PDT by Judith Anne ( Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of our death.)
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To: MarkBsnr
Oh did I hurt your feelings with some adult words?

Remember when you say hurtful things hurtful things may come back.

For the record I just responded to YOUR rude PM’s. The record is clear you started it.

You are the one lashing out at me on PM’s so I guess maybe you should do your reading.

Since you all travel in a swarm you may have to loan it to each other and help the slower among you with the big words.

Thanks again for letting me BTT!!!

Remember:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2757208/posts Denial is not just a river!

31 posted on 08/05/2011 4:10:02 PM PDT by mad_as_he$$
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To: Judith Anne

Thanks, I am having a great day!!!


32 posted on 08/05/2011 4:11:29 PM PDT by mad_as_he$$
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To: mad_as_he$$

And you are certainly setting an instructive example for everyone. Thanks.


33 posted on 08/05/2011 4:22:02 PM PDT by Judith Anne ( Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of our death.)
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To: mad_as_he$$
Oh did I hurt your feelings with some adult words? Remember when you say hurtful things hurtful things may come back.

For the record I just responded to YOUR rude PM’s. The record is clear you started it.

Very good. I will repost my original PM to you in its entirety. Will you have the courage to repost your replies to me?

Dude, why are you harassing Catholic Caucus threads?

Mark

Boy, that's hurtful. Full of F-bombs and everything.

Are you certain that you can repost ANY of your replies on this forum and not have the RM cancel you completely? I know that I can.

34 posted on 08/05/2011 4:48:40 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: MarkBsnr

Hack nurse popping popcorn...


35 posted on 08/05/2011 4:52:43 PM PDT by Judith Anne ( Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of our death.)
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To: Judith Anne
Answer:

Question: Who else is not a Catholic.

36 posted on 08/05/2011 5:01:50 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: Judith Anne
Answer:

Question: Who else is not a Catholic.

37 posted on 08/05/2011 5:01:50 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: MarkBsnr

ROFL! Cute. ;-D


38 posted on 08/05/2011 5:03:32 PM PDT by Judith Anne ( Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of our death.)
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To: All
Top officials at the Vatican are throwing their support behind pro-life Catholic leaders campaigning against dioceses allowing pro-abortion politicians receive Holy Communion, says one such leader. American Life League President Judie Brown spoke with LifeSiteNews yesterday about her recent trip to Rome, where she spoke with Vatican officials about Communion for pro-abortion politicians and the changing pro-life landscape in America. Cardinal Raymond Burke told Brown to be “persistent” in her campaign to have Canon 915 enforced, she said.
Sadly, Archbishop Chaput has indicated that it is the responsibility of the communicant to stay away from the Communion Rail. This is not correct. Rather, it is the responsibility of the Minister of the Eucharist to deny Holy Communion. This is a huge difference that goes against the Church's teachings regarding canon 915 as well as recent statements from the Vatican stating that the manifest pro-abortion politicians must be denied, and the burden IS upon the Minister to deny, NOT upon the communicant to stay away
. -- from the thread Will Denver Catholic Archbishop finally enforce Canon 915?
"...there's a question about whether this canon'' – the relevant church law – "was ever intended to be used'' to bring politicians to heel. He thinks not. "I stand with the great majority of American bishops and bishops around the world in saying this canon was never intended to be used this way." -- from the thread [Archbishop] Wuerl: Why I Won't Deny Pelosi Communion
Albany Bishop Howard Hubbard says it is "unfair and imprudent" to conclude that Gov. Andrew Cuomo and his girlfriend, Sandra Lee, shouldn't receive Communion simply because they're living together. -- from the thread Bishop: None of your business (Hubbard rejects Catholic expert's criticism of Gov. Cuomo)
[Archbishop Timothy Dolan] also does not outright deny the sacrament to dissenting Catholic lawmakers, but he is seen as an outspoken defender of church orthodoxy in a style favored by many theological conservatives.
-- from the thread US bishops elect NYC archbishop as head in upset (Catholic bloggers blamed)
Related threads:
Vatican consultant responds to Cardinal Mahoney ‘Christ gave Judas communion’ argument
Bishop: None of your business (Hubbard rejects Catholic expert's criticism of Gov. Cuomo)
A Call to Deny Communion to Cuomo
Pro-Abortion New York and Nevada Governors Get Catholic Mass
Vatican Archbishop Burke: Public Repentance is Required for Pro-Abort Politicians
New San Fran Bishop: Sanctions against Pro-Abort Pols Makes Church Too 'Republican'
Rudd's decision to take holy communion at Catholic mass causes debate [Australia]
Columnist Reflects on Kennedy Funeral, Recalls 2004 Letter from Card. Ratzinger to Card. McCarrick
Did Obama receive Holy Communion at Senator Kennedy's Funeral Mass?
The Bishops Who Speak... And Those Who Don't
[Archbishop] Wuerl: Why I Won't Deny Pelosi Communion
Catholic leaders accused of failing to enforce church law
Will Denver Catholic Archbishop finally enforce Canon 915?
Rebuking Rudy Giuliani: Cardinal Egan’s Teaching Moment After Giuliani’s Communion
Did Catholic Archbishop Lose Internal Vote Over Abortion, Communion Debate?
San Francisco’s “Gay Parish” Pastor Says Reaction to Sacrilegious Communion “Overblown”
Jesuit Priest Professor Says Archbishop Was Correct in Giving Communion to Transvestite 'Nuns'
A reflection on canon 915
Pell ignored as MPs take Communion
German cardinals stress Catholic stand against intercommunion
Shared communion ban with non-Catholics reaffirmed
Pope Upholds Celibacy for Priests and Ban for Communion for Divorced Catholics Who Remarry
At a glance: Duties of the Catholic church leaders
May the Laity be Critical of it's Pastor, Bishop, Pope, Church? (Catholic Caucus)
Pope Clarifies That Only He Can Criticize a Cardinal

39 posted on 08/05/2011 5:11:31 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (Posting news feeds, making eyes bleed: he's hated on seven continents)
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To: Judith Anne
"And you are certainly setting an instructive example for everyone. Thanks."

Yeah, but there is a difference between an example and a specimen.

Some of these morons have bought into the MSM line than anyone who declares himself a Catholic is a Catholic in Communion with the Church. The really sad thing is that they don't know enough about Catholicism to realize what complete idiots they are making of themselves. They would be equally successful declaring themselves starting NFL quarterbacks.

40 posted on 08/05/2011 5:15:09 PM PDT by Natural Law (For God so loved the world He did not send a book.)
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To: Natural Law

“...there is a difference between an example and a specimen.

Yep. Specimens are instructive, too.


41 posted on 08/05/2011 5:20:26 PM PDT by Judith Anne ( Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of our death.)
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To: Natural Law

Kind of like Nancy Pelosi.


42 posted on 08/05/2011 5:23:17 PM PDT by Judith Anne ( Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of our death.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

It has been. It just hasn’t been enforce publicly.

Actually the pro-abort politicians self-excommunicate themselves by supporting abortion.


43 posted on 08/05/2011 5:35:00 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: NYer

This comes from the pro-life movement here in America.

In the beginning, Catholic Democrats were opposed to abortion.

But, we have seen them sell their souls to gain power.

It is those of us in the pews, the laity, who are calling for our bishops to stand as strong for life as we are and call to account those who support abortion, even if they believe they do so indirectly or unintentionally.

I am all for denying politicians, any Catholic, communion if it is publicly known that they support abortion.

I hope it happens. Sadly, there are many in my own church who would be denied.

Paul warns us that we bring judgement upon ourselves if we eat and drink unworthily.


44 posted on 08/05/2011 6:49:46 PM PDT by Jvette
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To: mad_as_he$$; Judith Anne
Both of you, do not make Religion Forum threads "about" individual Freepers. That is also a form of "making it personal."

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

45 posted on 08/05/2011 8:24:09 PM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: Religion Moderator

Okay.


46 posted on 08/05/2011 8:25:04 PM PDT by Judith Anne ( Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of our death.)
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To: Alex Murphy
"Archbishop Chaput has indicated that it is the responsibility of the communicant to stay away from the Communion Rail."

You have posted this quote in numerous threads as though you believe it absurd or an indictment of Archbishop Chaput and the Church. It only illustrates how completely out of touch you are with the general concept of personal responsibility and the Church's doctrines of service and personal accountability.

Really, Alex, give it a rest. Albert Einstein defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. In your 10+ years of repetitious Church bashing on Free Republic you haven't moved one Catholic one inch away from the Church or yourself one inch closer to God. Even some of your more vitriolic anti-Catholic cohorts have seen the folly of this and ceased or greatly reduced their attacks.

47 posted on 08/06/2011 11:09:27 AM PDT by Natural Law (For God so loved the world He did not send a book.)
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To: Judith Anne

Pelosi, Biden, Kerry, the Kennedys, yadda yadda


48 posted on 08/06/2011 11:13:03 AM PDT by nascarnation
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To: Natural Law
You have posted this quote in numerous threads as though you believe it absurd or an indictment of Archbishop Chaput and the Church. It only illustrates how completely out of touch you are with the general concept of personal responsibility and the Church's doctrines of service and personal accountability.


Tell me what do you see, Natural Law?

In your 10+ years of repetitious Church bashing on Free Republic you haven't moved one Catholic one inch away from the Church or yourself one inch closer to God.

Engaging in a little weekend pareidolia?

49 posted on 08/06/2011 6:09:53 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (Posting news feeds, making eyes bleed: he's hated on seven continents)
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To: Alex Murphy
"Tell me what do you see, Natural Law?"

It would take a proper scatologist to decipher your posts.

50 posted on 08/06/2011 7:04:13 PM PDT by Natural Law (For God so loved the world He did not send a book.)
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