Skip to comments.Vatican officials encouraging push to stop communion for pro-abort pols
Posted on 08/05/2011 9:28:09 AM PDT by NYer
ROME, August 4, 2011 (LifeSiteNews.com) Top officials at the Vatican are throwing their support behind pro-life Catholic leaders campaigning against dioceses allowing pro-abortion politicians receive Holy Communion, says one such leader.
American Life League President Judie Brown spoke with LifeSiteNews yesterday about her recent trip to Rome, where she spoke with Vatican officials about Communion for pro-abortion politicians and the changing pro-life landscape in America.
Cardinal Raymond Burke told Brown to be persistent in her campaign to have Canon 915 enforced, she said.
Canon 915 states: “Those upon whom the penalty of excommunication or interdict has been imposed or declared, and others who obstinately persist in manifest grave sin, are not to be admitted to holy communion.”
Brown also noted that Burke encouraged her to make use of the numerous articles he himself has written on the subject.
He encouraged us to be persistent, to use his articles and not to back down from our position which is the same as his, she said. Its not arbitrary its a matter of the law of the church which needs to be enforced.
Cardinal Burke, she noted, spoke of applying the sanction called for in canon 915 as “therapeutic” in terms of helping people come back in line with the church.
The fact that many bishops are “not comfortable” about it, said Brown, doesnt matter.
Brown also addressed at the meeting how intentional distortions of official Church statements have confused Catholics on the abortion issue.
In America, conception is defined as implantation, so when the Church makes a statement - Dignitas Personae is the most recent example - our enemies turn around and say even the Church doesnt believe theres life before implantation, Brown explained to Zenit news.
Church officials must be clear that when the word conception is used, it means the biological beginning of a person.
While in Rome, Brown covered a wide range of topics including Americas growing pro-life youth movement, ad hominem attacks on pro-life Catholics, and the ramifications of a culture-of-death president.
Cardinal Burke is the primary example of being targeted by the media,” she told LifeSiteNews.com. “The reason for that is that he wont back down. He tells Catholics all the time, including me, to continue to persist in the faith, and he does it.
We have every reason to be optimistic. But, all Catholics must stand up and be Catholic even when its uncomfortable, she concluded.
You would think this would have been the policy all along.
I never cease to be amazed by Obama stickers on cars in church parking lots. Applicable to all denominations/religions.
About 40 years late
“Cardinal Raymond Burke told Brown to be persistent in her campaign to have Canon 915 enforced, she said.”
While Archbishop of St. Louis, Cardinal Burke PROACTIVELY told John Kerry he would NOT be receiving Communion, if he attended Mass while on a political stop here in the Gateway City.
I’m still cheering that line in the sand.
Which is why Kerry went to St. Cronin's where they don't pay attention to any archbishop.
My hunch is that the next pope will be from Africa or Central/South America.
There is no dispute about the plain meaning of Canon 915: any person who persists in grave sin in a public manner must be denied communion.
The dispute has to do with the degree of autonomy of the local ordinary. Does this Canon apply equally to the Universal Church, or can different bishops apply it differently? So, for example, can a certain member of the US House of Representatives from San Francisco receive communion in San Francisco, but be denied communion in Washington, D.C.?
It certainly sounds promising, but I’m afraid about 35 years too late.
What I wanna know is, why isn’t a potential bishop asked about how they would handle this issue before they’re appointed?
They made similar predictions before Ratzinger was elected.
They made the prediction about the next pope probably coming from Africa, Central or South America, I don't recall anyone discounting the possibility of another European.
May Church Teaching be CLEAR, STRONG and full of the joy that truth inevitably brings! May it guide us to repentance, humility and deeper faith.
Are you taking this position as a faux-Catholic? Maybe you should read what you link before stepping in it again. No abortions are performed at that hospital. Dr. Richard Grossman, who is a part time worker at the Catholic hospital (one day per week) performs abortions on his own time.
Now that you have shot your mouth off again why don't you tell us what you personally have done to stop the scourge of abortion. Have you petitioned politicians, counseled expectant mothers, financially contributed to Pro-Life organizations, protested or blockaded clinics and providers?
Don't bother actually answering, no one will believe you anyway. I'll bet your only involvement is to anonymously slander the Church over this issue from the safety and security of your mom's basement.
How about this one?
Why do you ping all you minions every post to me?
Are you lonely or is it you can't fight your own battles.
Remember I didn't start the lying and name calling. The CC did.
If you don't care what I say why are you following me around FR? The original post here wasn't to any of your posse.
Stop harassing me!
Stop harassing you? After what you have recently done on Catholic Caucus posts to a Catholic n00b? And insisting that you are an “active Catholic”?
What’s the matter, can’t your fellow “active Catholics” post to you?
I'm not following you, but like the old saying goes some substances attract flies.
"Stop harassing me!"
LOL. Don't flatter yourself. This isn't about you. I am an equal opportunity poster. If you would research my posting history you will find me often responding to those who lie about the Church. Like another old saying goes, if you don't want people talking about it, don't do it.
Why yes decent respectful Catholics can post to me. I have received several PMs from very nice Catholics. A couple have even offered their apologies for your and others behavior. I told them it is not necessary and not their responsibility to apologize for others behavior.
I will ask my priest tonight if I am committing a sin for discouraging communications from Catholics that insult me and call me a liar.
No I do not want to hear from rude, 10-15 cigarette a day smoking, washed up, hack nurses. In the event you fit any of those criteria I would prefer not to hear from you.
Remember you started the name calling and the lies.
Thanks for allowing me to BTT this with a post!!! Great thread don't you think?
STOP harassing me!!!
Once again - slow learner.
Stop harassing me and following me around.
Oh yea, real nice insult. What are you 12?
Whoopsie daisy! Not a good idea to discuss PMs on the threads. Against the rules, in fact.
You do not want to hear from me today, but yesterday it was okay for you to post to me? What happened? Never mind. People can read it for themselves on the threads. All except your posts that were removed, that is.
I didn’t see any insult from Natural Law. Picnics attract flies.
You need to get your facts straight.
I'm not going to respond to that sort of thing. I don't react quite the same when people lie about me as when they lie about the Church. Especially, when they spend so much time lying about themselves.
Besides, Catholics on FR are constantly coached, admonished and warned to have thick skins and to expect this sort of "public square personal attack" thing. (The fact that such a warning has not been given is even more proof we weren't dealing with a real Catholic.)
I'll bet. I don't think it is possible to insult you. But you may wish to check with a priest just the same.
STOP harassing me!!!
Or what? You're going to chain PM dropping F-bombs?
Hmmmm....well, you caught me there. I give up, you are the sweet one, I am terrible and mean to poor little you. I admit it. Thanks for all your edifying posts, I’ve really learned a lot from them.
Have a lovely day, Catholic FRiend.
Remember when you say hurtful things hurtful things may come back.
For the record I just responded to YOUR rude PM’s. The record is clear you started it.
You are the one lashing out at me on PM’s so I guess maybe you should do your reading.
Since you all travel in a swarm you may have to loan it to each other and help the slower among you with the big words.
Thanks again for letting me BTT!!!
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2757208/posts Denial is not just a river!
Thanks, I am having a great day!!!
And you are certainly setting an instructive example for everyone. Thanks.
For the record I just responded to YOUR rude PMs. The record is clear you started it.
Very good. I will repost my original PM to you in its entirety. Will you have the courage to repost your replies to me?
Dude, why are you harassing Catholic Caucus threads?
Boy, that's hurtful. Full of F-bombs and everything.
Are you certain that you can repost ANY of your replies on this forum and not have the RM cancel you completely? I know that I can.
Hack nurse popping popcorn...
Question: Who else is not a Catholic.
Question: Who else is not a Catholic.
ROFL! Cute. ;-D
Sadly, Archbishop Chaput has indicated that it is the responsibility of the communicant to stay away from the Communion Rail. This is not correct. Rather, it is the responsibility of the Minister of the Eucharist to deny Holy Communion. This is a huge difference that goes against the Church's teachings regarding canon 915 as well as recent statements from the Vatican stating that the manifest pro-abortion politicians must be denied, and the burden IS upon the Minister to deny, NOT upon the communicant to stay away
. -- from the thread Will Denver Catholic Archbishop finally enforce Canon 915?
"...there's a question about whether this canon'' the relevant church law "was ever intended to be used'' to bring politicians to heel. He thinks not. "I stand with the great majority of American bishops and bishops around the world in saying this canon was never intended to be used this way." -- from the thread [Archbishop] Wuerl: Why I Won't Deny Pelosi Communion
Albany Bishop Howard Hubbard says it is "unfair and imprudent" to conclude that Gov. Andrew Cuomo and his girlfriend, Sandra Lee, shouldn't receive Communion simply because they're living together. -- from the thread Bishop: None of your business (Hubbard rejects Catholic expert's criticism of Gov. Cuomo)
[Archbishop Timothy Dolan] also does not outright deny the sacrament to dissenting Catholic lawmakers, but he is seen as an outspoken defender of church orthodoxy in a style favored by many theological conservatives.Related threads:
-- from the thread US bishops elect NYC archbishop as head in upset (Catholic bloggers blamed)
Yeah, but there is a difference between an example and a specimen.
Some of these morons have bought into the MSM line than anyone who declares himself a Catholic is a Catholic in Communion with the Church. The really sad thing is that they don't know enough about Catholicism to realize what complete idiots they are making of themselves. They would be equally successful declaring themselves starting NFL quarterbacks.
“...there is a difference between an example and a specimen.
Yep. Specimens are instructive, too.
Kind of like Nancy Pelosi.
It has been. It just hasn’t been enforce publicly.
Actually the pro-abort politicians self-excommunicate themselves by supporting abortion.
This comes from the pro-life movement here in America.
In the beginning, Catholic Democrats were opposed to abortion.
But, we have seen them sell their souls to gain power.
It is those of us in the pews, the laity, who are calling for our bishops to stand as strong for life as we are and call to account those who support abortion, even if they believe they do so indirectly or unintentionally.
I am all for denying politicians, any Catholic, communion if it is publicly known that they support abortion.
I hope it happens. Sadly, there are many in my own church who would be denied.
Paul warns us that we bring judgement upon ourselves if we eat and drink unworthily.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
You have posted this quote in numerous threads as though you believe it absurd or an indictment of Archbishop Chaput and the Church. It only illustrates how completely out of touch you are with the general concept of personal responsibility and the Church's doctrines of service and personal accountability.
Really, Alex, give it a rest. Albert Einstein defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. In your 10+ years of repetitious Church bashing on Free Republic you haven't moved one Catholic one inch away from the Church or yourself one inch closer to God. Even some of your more vitriolic anti-Catholic cohorts have seen the folly of this and ceased or greatly reduced their attacks.
Pelosi, Biden, Kerry, the Kennedys, yadda yadda
In your 10+ years of repetitious Church bashing on Free Republic you haven't moved one Catholic one inch away from the Church or yourself one inch closer to God.
Engaging in a little weekend pareidolia?
It would take a proper scatologist to decipher your posts.