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The Transfiguration of Brigham Young
Mormon Coffee (Mormonism Research Ministry) ^ | Aug. 8, 2011 | Sharon Lindbloom

Posted on 08/08/2011 7:38:05 AM PDT by Colofornian

When Joseph Smith died in June of 1844, the Mormon Church faced a succession crisis. Mormon historian Richard S. Van Wagoner explained,

“Despite frequent kidnaping and assassination attempts, Joseph Smith established no firm policies regarding presidential succession in the event of his death. The resulting confusion threw the prophetic transition into turmoil. He simply had not expected to die at thirty-eight. Never given to full disclosure to any man or woman, the prophet’s public and private statements between 1834-44 suggested at least eight different methods for succession, each pointing to different successors with some claims to validity.” (“The Making of a Mormon Myth: The 1844 Transfiguration of Brigham Young,” Dialog, Vol. 28, No. 4, Winter 1995, 4, pdf)

Many people vied for the office of President of the Church left vacant at Smith’s death. The two main contenders, however, were Sidney Rigdon (First Counselor in the First Presidency) and Brigham Young (President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles). Church members were divided and argued over the identity of Smith’s successor. A special meeting was called in Nauvoo for August 8, 1844 to decide who would lead the floundering church. Sidney Rigdon spoke and made a case for his ascension to the office of President. Then Brigham Young spoke in behalf of The Twelve. It was then that the miracle occurred.

“If Joseph had risen from the dead and again spoken in their hearing, the effect could not have been more startling than it was to many present at that meeting, it was the voice of Joseph himself; and not only was it the voice of Joseph which was heard, but it seemed in the eyes of the people as if it were the very person of Joseph which stood before them. A more wonderful and miraculous event than was wrought that day in the presence of that congregation, we never heard of. The Lord gave His people a testimony that left no room for doubt as to who was the man chosen to lead them. They both saw and heard with their natural eyes and ears, and the words which were uttered came, accompanied by the convincing power of God, to their hearts, and they were filled with the Spirit and with great joy. There had been gloom, and in some hearts, probably, doubt and uncertainty, but now it was plain to all that here was the man upon whom the Lord had bestowed the necessary authority to act in their midst in Joseph’s stead. On that occasion Brigham Young seemed to be transformed, and a change such as that we read of in the scriptures as happening to the Prophet Elisha, when Elijah was translated in his presence, seemed to have taken place with him. The mantle of the Prophet Joseph had been left for Brigham. … The people said one to another: ‘The spirit of Joseph rests on Brigham’: they knew that he was the man chosen to lead them and they honored him accordingly.” (George Q. Cannon, circa 1864, quoted in Van Wagoner, 14-15)

Except that they didn’t.

As Mr. Van Wagoner points out, on August 8, 1844 the Latter-day Saints chose a group of men, not one man, to lead the church when they voted in favor of the Quorum of the Twelve apostles as their leading authority. Brigham Young was not sustained as the President of the Church until December 1847, and this was not without opposition and argument. The historical facts actually suggest that Brigham Young was not chosen to lead the church that day, for one week later, on August 15, the Twelve published an epistle that said,

“You are now without a prophet present with you in the flesh to guide you. … Let no man presume for a moment that [Joseph Smith’s] place will be filled by another; for, remember he stands in his own place, and always will.” (Times and Seasons 5 (15 Aug. 1844): 618, quoted in Van Wagoner, 14)

Furthermore, history also suggests that there was no transfiguration on August 8 to guide the people toward God’s will in the matter. According to Mr. Van Wagoner, “no known contemporary record supports a supernatural occurrence” at either the morning or afternoon August 8 meetings, but there are plenty of accounts from later years that mention Brigham Young’s transfiguration.

“The earliest detailed accounts of a purported transfiguration did not begin to surface until long after the Saints were settled in the Great Basin. The fact that no account was included in ‘Joseph Smith’s History,’ completed in August 1856, or in The Autobiography of Parley P. Pratt, completed before his 1857 death, suggests that the myth was not fully developed by this period. The first public reference to a ‘transfiguration’ may have been a 19 July 1857 statement by Albert Carrington before a huge gathering of Saints that ‘he could not tell [Brigham Young] from Joseph Smith’ when Young ‘was speaking in the stand in Nauvoo’ during the 8 August 1844 convocation…

“Retrospective retellings of a ‘transfiguration,’ in a variety of forms, can be found in dozens of sources, yet no two seem to agree on precise details.” (16-17)

Some who later claimed to have witnessed the transfiguration were not actually in Nauvoo on August 8, 1844. John D. Lee said he saw and heard a strong resemblance in Brigham Young to Joseph Smith “at that time,” but he did not arrive in Nauvoo until August 20. In 1869 Orson Hyde, an apostle of the Mormon Church, described the famous August 8 meeting and his participation in it. He said,

“We went among the congregation…he [Brigham] spoke, and his words went through me like electricity…This is my testimony; it was not only the voice of Joseph, but there were the features, the gestures and even the stature of Joseph before us in the person of Brigham.” (Journal of Discourse 13:181)

Mr. Hyde’s testimony is astonishing – because he was not in Nauvoo on August 8, but rather arrived in the city five days later.

One contemporary account of the transfiguration of Brigham Young was found in the diary of Mormon George Laub, thought to have been written in 1846. Mr. Van Wagoner explains, “This small tan-colored leather diary, which has misled many scholars, has now been determined to be a copy of the original by Laub himself, with additions.” The original diary has also been discovered, and it contains no reference to Brigham Young’s transfiguration.

Mr. Van Wagoner sums up,

“Apostles Brigham Young, Heber C. Kimball, Willard Richards, and Wilford Woodruff, all of whom made 8 August 1844 entries in their diaries, make no reference to an epiphany. Such an event, had it truly transpired, would have stood at the apogee of world history, a physical metamorphosis unsurpassed except for the transfiguration and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Yet neither the Times and Seasons nor the Nauvoo Neighbor, local newspapers owned by the church, mention such a wonder. Neither do the 1844 and 1845 accounts of Jedediah Grant and Orson Hyde, specifically written to refute Sidney Rigdon’s robust challenge to the Quorum of Twelve’s succession claims.” (22)

The transfiguration of Brigham Young is but another Mormon myth used to undergird the validity of a church that has no solid foundation. Mormons, consider the words of Seventy B.H. Roberts:

“…since these things are myth and our Church has permitted them to be perpetuated … might not the other fundamentals to the actual story of the Church, the things in which it had its origin, might they not all be lies and nothing but lies.” (quoted in Van Wagoner, 24)


TOPICS: History; Ministry/Outreach; Other Christian; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: antiamericanism; antimormonjihad; antimormonrant; bigotry; bitterformermormon; brighamyoung; fatwa; flamebait; flamewar; inman; lds; mormoaner; mormon; prophet; religiousbigotry; themormonquestion; zealotry
Summary: Supposedly Aug. 8, 1844 was the day that Brigham Young was chosen to succeed Joseph Smith as the leading "prophet" of the Mormon church. Well, that's the way Mormon history reads.

In fact the man who was to become a First Counselor to FOUR different Mormon "prophets" -- George Q. Cannon, claimed that Brigham was "changed" in their very presence on Aug. 8, and that they knew them that Brigham was the one to lead them.

Except it didn't happen that way. Young, @ the Aug. 8 meeting, was one of a GROUP of men selected to lead...and diaries later revealed no "transfiguration" was accorded/recorded for Brigham!

From the article: Some who later claimed to have witnessed the transfiguration were not actually in Nauvoo on August 8, 1844. John D. Lee said he saw and heard a strong resemblance in Brigham Young to Joseph Smith “at that time,” but he did not arrive in Nauvoo until August 20. In 1869 Orson Hyde, an apostle of the Mormon Church, described the famous August 8 meeting and his participation in it. He said, “We went among the congregation…he [Brigham] spoke, and his words went through me like electricity…This is my testimony; it was not only the voice of Joseph, but there were the features, the gestures and even the stature of Joseph before us in the person of Brigham.” (Journal of Discourse 13:181) Mr. Hyde’s testimony is astonishing – because he was not in Nauvoo on August 8, but rather arrived in the city five days later.

From the article: Mr. Van Wagoner sums up, “Apostles Brigham Young, Heber C. Kimball, Willard Richards, and Wilford Woodruff, all of whom made 8 August 1844 entries in their diaries, make no reference to an epiphany. Such an event, had it truly transpired, would have stood at the apogee of world history, a physical metamorphosis unsurpassed except for the transfiguration and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Yet neither the Times and Seasons nor the Nauvoo Neighbor, local newspapers owned by the church, mention such a wonder. Neither do the 1844 and 1845 accounts of Jedediah Grant and Orson Hyde, specifically written to refute Sidney Rigdon’s robust challenge to the Quorum of Twelve’s succession claims.”

1 posted on 08/08/2011 7:38:09 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: All
From the article: The transfiguration of Brigham Young is but another Mormon myth used to undergird the validity of a church that has no solid foundation. Mormons, consider the words of Seventy B.H. Roberts: “…since these things are myth and our Church has permitted them to be perpetuated … might not the other fundamentals to the actual story of the Church, the things in which it had its origin, might they not all be lies and nothing but lies.” (quoted in Van Wagoner, 24)
2 posted on 08/08/2011 7:48:51 AM PDT by Colofornian (Tenses of polygamy: "As fLDS now are, LDS once were. As fLDS now are, LDS may become.")
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To: All
See also, from the same source, this discussion of: Joseph Smith as a sexual predator
3 posted on 08/08/2011 7:51:06 AM PDT by Colofornian (Tenses of polygamy: "As fLDS now are, LDS once were. As fLDS now are, LDS may become.")
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To: Colofornian

Adults believe this stuff????


4 posted on 08/08/2011 7:51:34 AM PDT by Pining_4_TX ( The state is the great fiction by which everybody seeks to live at the expense of everybody else. ~)
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To: Colofornian
Mormonism, Scientologist, Jehovah's Witness, Seventh Day Adventist = KOOK RELIGEONS!
5 posted on 08/08/2011 7:53:48 AM PDT by Flavious_Maximus
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To: Colofornian
"Mormons, consider the words of Seventy B.H. Roberts: “…since these things are myth and our Church has permitted them to be perpetuated … might not the other fundamentals to the actual story of the Church, the things in which it had its origin, might they not all be lies and nothing but lies.” (quoted in Van Wagoner, 24)

The mormon church continues to perpetuate lies, and the mormon sheeple refuse to see it.

6 posted on 08/08/2011 7:57:32 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (My God can't be bribed by money or good works or bound by manmade "covenants". Romney's can.)
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To: Pining_4_TX
Adults believe this stuff????

Yes.

Enough to give 10% or more of their lifetime income.

And a higher % of their valuable clock-ticks.

All down the drain...for what an admitted early Utah would-be legislator & one of their top intellectuals labeled a "myth" -- leading him to wonder, "might not the other fundamentals to the actual story of the Church, the things in which it had its origin, might they not all be lies and nothing but lies.”

For more information on the doubts of B.H. Roberts, see: B.H. Roberts and The Disappointment of B.H. Roberts

Roberts finally openly doubted the Book of Mormon by the early 1920s. The five questions he couldn't answer to his satisfaction were: The Five Questions Roberts Couldn't Answer B.H. Roberts asked the General Authorities to answer these five questions:

1. Linguistics: Riter asked - if the American Indians were all descendants of Lehi - why there was such diversity in the language of the American Indians and why there was no indication of Hebrew in any of the Indian language?

2. The Book of Mormon says that Lehi found horses when he arrived in America. The horse described in the Book of Mormon (as well as many other domestic animals) did not exist in the New World before the arrival of the Spanish Conquistadors.

3. Nephi is stated to have had a "bow of steel." Jews did not know steel at that time. And there was no iron on this continent until after the Spaniard conquest.

4. The Book of Mormon frequently mentions "awards and scimeters (scimitars)." Scimitars are unknown until the rise of the Moslem faith (after 600 A.D.).

5. The Book of Mormon says the Nephites possessed silk. Silk did not exist in America in pre-Columbian times.

7 posted on 08/08/2011 8:00:10 AM PDT by Colofornian (Tenses of polygamy: "As fLDS now are, LDS once were. As fLDS now are, LDS may become.")
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To: Colofornian

The resulting confusion threw the prophetic transition (and all his various widows and ‘concubines’) into turmoil.

[”In the summer of 1831 the Johnson family took Joseph and Emma Smith into their home as boarders, and soon thereafter the prophet purportedly bedded young Marinda. Unfortunately, the liaison did not go unnoticed, and a gang of indignant Ohioans—including a number of Mormons—resolved to castrate Joseph so that he would be disinclined to commit such acts of depravity in the future.” -Jon Krakauer, “Under the Banner of Heaven”]
-


8 posted on 08/08/2011 8:10:39 AM PDT by flowerplough (Pelosi on Republicans: "They want to destroy food safety, clean air, clean water, ...")
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To: Colofornian

The resulting confusion threw the prophetic transition (and all his various widows and ‘concubines’) into turmoil.

[”In the summer of 1831 the Johnson family took Joseph and Emma Smith into their home as boarders, and soon thereafter the prophet purportedly bedded young Marinda. Unfortunately, the liaison did not go unnoticed, and a gang of indignant Ohioans—including a number of Mormons—resolved to castrate Joseph so that he would be disinclined to commit such acts of depravity in the future.” -Jon Krakauer, “Under the Banner of Heaven”]
-


9 posted on 08/08/2011 8:10:48 AM PDT by flowerplough (Pelosi on Republicans: "They want to destroy food safety, clean air, clean water, ...")
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To: flowerplough

sorry for the double - mousepad driver doesn’t adjust for sensitivity.


10 posted on 08/08/2011 8:13:45 AM PDT by flowerplough (Pelosi on Republicans: "They want to destroy food safety, clean air, clean water, ...")
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To: Colofornian
Sexual predators, perverts, and liars?!!


11 posted on 08/08/2011 8:14:23 AM PDT by laotzu
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To: Pining_4_TX
Not only do "they believe this 'stuff'" but one of the most well-known, Mitt Romney, the man who would be President does!

Romney, his LDS handlers and backroom supporters are hoping you and most (GOP) Americans either don't know, don't care or don't see why it should matter if their President believes these lies. As Mitt does, does it follow that he would also believe "other" liars as well?

Many Americans paid no attention to the beliefs and lies of another man, Barrack Obama did either.

12 posted on 08/08/2011 8:46:14 AM PDT by zerosix (native sunflower)
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To: Colofornian
The two main contenders, however, were Sidney Rigdon (First Counselor in the First Presidency) and Brigham Young (President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles).

The author conveniently forgot the Smith family. There was brother Samuel Smith, one of the eleven witnesses to the Book of Mormon who died of poisoning (or typhus, depending on whom you believe) three days after assuming the throne; and brother William Smith, crazy in his own right to the point where he would be bounced from Mormon sects at least five times (my count); and Joseph Smith III, who would go on to successfully lead the RLDS sect for about 60 years.

The author also conveniently forgot His Royal Highness, King James J. Strang. His Majesty had documents showing that he was Joseph Smith's official Designated Successor. The King was backed by both the Smith Family and Rigdon after each failed to gain the throne. Perhaps the author's omission was the result of the fact that Strang was nuttier than a fruitcake; perhaps it was the result of the additional plates that Strang found on the "Hill of Promise" in Wisconsin -- plates which led to additional Mormon scripture titled, "The Law of the Lord," after they were translated with the aid of Urim and Thumum. His Excellency came within an eyelash of gaining the throne.

The author also conveniently forgot the "Succession Crisis," a two and half year civil way (as per the historian Hubert Bancroft) which ultimately led in large part to the exodus to Utah.

Other than that, not a bad account.

13 posted on 08/08/2011 8:56:39 AM PDT by Zakeet (If it ain't broke, the Wee Wee will fix it until it is)
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To: laotzu
Photobucket

IMO, that's a pretty feeble attempt. What is it about the mormon fondness for their public figures? Marie Osmond ditched her garments to appear on TV in revealing costumes. I'm sure there are more "worthy" mormon women to hold up as heroines, like any one of the gullible souls who pulled a handcart across the plains and buried their children along the way.

BRIGHAM'S HAND-CART SCHEME,

How about THIS woman, for example?

"Among the emigrants was a very wealthy gentleman of the name of Tennant. He and his wife were among the early converts, and were very earnest Mormons. They had for a long time been resolved to come to Zion. and when the Hand-Cart scheme was introduced they decided to join that company. Humble followers of Christ, they thought they could in no better way show their love for Him and their devotion to their religion, than by such an act of self- sacrifice as this. Possessed of ample means to have crossed the ocean and travelled in the most comfortable and even luxurious manner, they nevertheless chose to go in this way, with the poorest of the Saints, and share with them all the hardships and dangers which should attend this toilsome, perilous journey.

Mr. Tennant gave liberally to the emigration fund, in order that as many poor Saints as possible might make the long-anticipated pilgrimage to Zion, and both himself and his wife provided liberally for the comfort of their poor fellow-travellers. A short time before the emigrant company left England, the Apostle Richards, in one of his eloquent dissertations on the "plan" and its divine origin, said that in order to assist the poor to emigrate, President Young had given to the Emigration Fund Society an estate in Salt Lake City, to be sold for its benefit. He dilated largely upon the disinterested generosity' of the Prophet, and his desire that as many' as possible of his faithful followers should be gathered to Zion during that season. Fired by this act of extreme kindness on the part of his revered leader in the church, Mr. Tennant at once bought the property, and paid, it is said, thirty thousand dollars down for it. There is little need, perhaps, of saying that that was immensely more than its real value; but that fact its purchaser was not aware of, as it was glorified by all the apostolic eloquence bestowed upon it, quite beyond recognition.

On the voyage, and during the journey across the States, and the tiresome waiting time at Iowa City, no one was more beloved than Mr. Tennant and his gentle, estimable wife. Sharing alike with the poorer Saints, no word of complaint ever passed their lips. They never for a moment seemed to regret their decision to emigrate at this particular time, but accepted every fresh hardship as a trial to their faith, sent by God Himself to test them, and prove their worthiness to enter His glorious kingdom on earth. They moved among their companions with kindly laces and words of cheer and comfort. They encouraged endurance by their example and made the forced discomforts of some of the party seem easier to bear by their voluntary assumption of them. As far as they could they alleviated the distress which prevailed, and were always ready to perform any deeds of kindness.

The journey with the hand-carts was doubly hard for them, unused as they were to exertion; and day after day the wife saw the husband slowly succumbing to fatigue and disease, and she powerless to assist him. But, though his strength waned and his health failed him, yet his courage and his faith remained steadfast and fixed. Whatever came he believed would surely be right, and though he struggled manfully to keep up until he should reach Zion, yet he was overcome, and died at O'FaIlon's Bluffs, literally of exhaustion. His last thought was for his sorrowing wife, and his last word was of comfort and consolation to her. He had one thought to make the parting easier - he had provided a home for her in Zion; Brother Brigham held it in trust for her, and she would find the comforts to which she was used, and rest and peace in the Valley with the chosen people.

The bereaved wife clung wildly to her husband's remains, with the most heart-broken lamentations. To have him die was a misery in itself; but to see the slow, cruel torture which he underwent, and to watch him slowly dying such a horrible death, was almost unbearable. For a time it seemed almost as though she must be left there with him that her soul would follow his. Happier would it have been for her had that fate been hers. The cold earth and pitiless winter storms would not be so cold and so pitiless as the world was to her, after this loving protecting arm was taken from her. A woman, unused to toil and hardship, nurtured in luxury, reared in tenderness and love, she was left alone to battle single-handed with the world. And such a world whose ruling passion was avarice, and whose delight was another's torture; the world of Mormon Sainthood - ruled over by a grasping, lecherous, heartless tyrant, who laughed at a woman's sorrows and flouted at her wrongs. I think if she had known all that was to follow, she would have lain down on the plain by the side of her dead husband, and endured the torture of a horrible, slow death, rather than have gone on to the years of suffering which lay before her.

It is fortunate, indeed, that the future is so closely veiled to us; else we should all lose heart and courage in this unequal struggle called life, and lay down our weapons, convinced that it is of no use to struggle longer. Providence deals wisely with us, after all, and we are forced to admit it at every step of our lives.

The hurried funeral rites were over, and the man who had been so great a benefactor to the people among whom he had cast his lot, was left sleeping his last sleep in a strange land, and the sorrowing party resumed their weary way, saddened by this affliction. On the arrival at Salt Lake Mrs. Tennant at once proceeded to look after her property. The "magnificent estate" for which her husband had paid so fabulous a price, was a small wooden house, inconvenient and out of repair, and worth not a tenth part of what had been paid for it.

She was shocked and troubled at what seemed such a piece of swindling on the part of the President and the church authorities, although at first she was inclined to exonerate Brigham Young and blame Apostle Richards for misrepresentation; but an audience with Brigham soon convinced her that he was at the bottom of the whole affair, and she felt bitterly enough towards the man who, under the guise of religious benevolence, would be guilty of such a piece of trickery. Even this poor shelter was not left her very long. The place, and, indeed, most of the valuable things which her husband had sent to make their home in Zion more comfortable, were taken for tithing and on other pretences, and in a very few months this woman was compelled to go out to daily labor to earn her bread, her rightful property going to fill the already overflowing coffers of the "Prophet of the Lord." Indeed, the entire Hand-Cart expedition was a good speculation for the President, and helped replenish the prophetic pocket."

14 posted on 08/08/2011 9:06:13 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (My God can't be bribed by money or good works or bound by manmade "covenants". Romney's can.)
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To: laotzu; flowerplough; Colofornian

i know many Mormons who are wonderful people.
i know many Muslims who are wonderful people.

...in both, the founders of their religion,
were “Sexual predators, perverts, and liars?!!”

Joseph Smith went to court in NY, as a con man.
and i believe he killed 2 men, when he tried to escape jail.
flowerplough had a great quote above about him being a sexual predator.

and Colofornian had great information, showing that other leaders LIED about seeing the “Transfiguration”.
(just as they have made literally hundreds of “alterations” in the original translation of the golden tablets...
which oddly has some identical text to King James translations of the Bible...)

Scliemann had a MYTH about the Trojan war, and found the real thing.
yet with ALL the specific information in the Book of Mormon, zero information has been found to support it,
and in fact, much information utterly refutes it as impossible.

Muslims are following a false prophet, predicted by Jesus himself. So are Mormons.


15 posted on 08/08/2011 9:11:00 AM PDT by Elendur (It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. - Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Elendur

“i know many Muslims who are wonderful people.”

Really? I’ve only met a few, always at work, and only one has beem a decent man. The others have invariably been abusive, self-serving users.


16 posted on 08/08/2011 10:23:51 AM PDT by flowerplough (Pelosi on Republicans: "They want to destroy food safety, clean air, clean water, ...")
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To: flowerplough

first, i will agree with you, that most are not nice.
i was simply making a comparison with Mormons,
that it is the leaders and religion that are evil,
not the misguided sheep that follow.

second, Islam is evil. it is LITERALLY the religion of Satan himself (as i’ve explained in detail elsewhere,
using the Sira etc. to prove it).
I’ve said many times, the Quran is seditious hate speech,
and should be banned from the USA!

But, many “Muslims” have never read the Quran, and don’t follow it.
the “Muslim” girl that wanted to marry me,
told me she didn’t believe in Islam, and she said she thought it was evil!
but she was “officially” a Muslim.
Many (like her) are receptive to hearing about Jesus.
...but not if you go in hating them. that doesn’t save them.

(and, do you treat them, the same you would a Christian?
many of them are nice to their family. they are just rude as you say, to kuffirs. they can be very friendly to their brothers and sisters in Islam.
but Islam SPECIFICALLY forbids a devout Muslim, from being friends with a kuffir.)

Jesus said to love even our enemies.
Just as with homosexuals, we are supposed to hate the sin, not the sinner.


17 posted on 08/08/2011 11:35:15 AM PDT by Elendur (It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. - Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Colofornian
When Joseph Smith died in June of 1844, the Mormon Church faced a succession crisis...

JESUS: Hey Smith!       Remember that boast you made about doing more than even I had done to hold the 'church' together?

JOSEPH SMITH: Where am I?

JESUS: Don't you remember? A few seconds ago you were in that jail.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh; yeah; but where am I NOW?

JESUS: Don't you remember? Does bang - bang ring a bell?

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh; yeah - that crummy gun I had was about USELESS!

JESUS: I hope you left instructions on how to hold your church together.

JOSEPH SMITH: Dang! I knew there was SOMETHING I was forgetting!

JESUS: Looks like there's a power struggle going on down there.

JOSEPH SMITH: Yeah; there was always SOMEone who wanted the power that I held - especially over the LADIES - wink wink.

JESUS: No need to worry about that now; remember what my friend Matthew wrote down?

JOSEPH SMITH: This? “At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven” (Matthew 22:30)

JESUS: That's it.

JOSEPH SMITH: I thought that was mistranslated.

JESUS: Nah - it was right.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh well; it was fun while it lasted. My buds will still get it on with the girls.

JESUS: Uh; I'm sorry; in just a few more years; your followers will cavein to the United States government and abandon the 'Eternal Covenant' that you came up with.

JOSEPH SMITH: ME!? YOU are the one that told me to do that!

JESUS: Sorry; but you must have mistranslated what I told you. What part of Do NOT commit ADULTERY did you not understand?

JOSEPH SMITH: mumble....

JESUS: What did you say?

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh, nothing.

JESUS: Well; it was interesting talking to you; but now I must get back to perparing a place for those who believe in Me.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh, yeah; the Celestial Kingdom.

JESUS: No...

JOSEPH SMITH: The Telestial one?

JESUS: Nope.

JOSEPH SMITH: SUREly not the TERRESTRIAL one!!

JESUS: Nope. Didn't you read that the mind of man had NOT conceived of it? Paul wrote it down in 1 Corinthians 2:9.

JOSEPH SMITH: I thought that was mistranslated.

JESUS: No; it wasn't.

JOSEPH SMITH: You SURE?

JESUS: Yes. Now I must be going: what did you say your name was again?

JOSEPH SMITH: Joseph Smith.

JESUS: Hmmmm. According to my Heavenly FAITHbook, you didn't sign in as one of my friends - sorry, I never knew you.

JOSEPH SMITH: But.... 

18 posted on 08/08/2011 3:29:11 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Colofornian
-- George Q. Cannon, claimed that Brigham was "changed" in their very presence on Aug. 8, and that they knew them that Brigham was the one to lead them.

Did he LIGHT up? like an ANGEL??

19 posted on 08/08/2011 3:30:16 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: flowerplough
...he would be disinclined ...

Well; he wasn't following Scripture again; so what's a crowd to do???

Galatians 5:12
As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!

20 posted on 08/08/2011 3:33:16 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: greyfoxx39
Hear me; for I am the Prophet; the LIVING Prophet, and I say that no harm shall come to you as you cross the fruited plains on the way to ZION!!!

Oooopps...

21 posted on 08/08/2011 3:36:28 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elendur
Just as with homosexuals, we are supposed to hate the sin, not the sinner.


Genesis 13:13
Now the men of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the LORD.

Genesis 18:20-21
20. Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and
their sin so grievous
21. that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know."

Genesis 19:4-7
4. Before they had gone to bed, all the men
from every part of the city of Sodom--both young and old--surrounded the house.
5. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them
."
6. Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him
7. and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing.

 

Psalms 12:8      The wicked freely strut about when what is vile is honored among men.

Ain't this just FABULOUS??      More?

Isaiah 3:9   The look on their faces testifies against them; they parade their sin like Sodom; they do not hide it. Woe to them! They have brought disaster upon themselves.

2 Peter 2:13b  Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.


 

 

Ezekiel 16:49-50
49. "`Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
50. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.



2 Peter 2

 1.  But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
 2.  Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
 3.  In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
 4.  For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell,  putting them into gloomy dungeons  to be held for judgment;
 5.  if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;
 6.  if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
 7.  and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men
 8.  (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)--
 9.  if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.
 10.  This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature  and despise authority.   Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings;
 11.  yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord.
 12.  But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.
 13.  They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done.
Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.



But there IS hope!!!

1 Corinthians 6:9-11

 9. Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:
     Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
10. nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
11. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

 


If you could NOT change, you would be in most pitiful shape...

22 posted on 08/08/2011 3:38:33 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elendur
I’ve said many times, the Quran is seditious hate speech, and should be banned from the USA!

Good Idea!!

Saudi Arabia manages to BAN THE BIBLE from IT's land, and no one flies into a snit over it!!

23 posted on 08/08/2011 3:40:03 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie

” nor homosexual offenders
10. nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. “
///
exactly.
and i have no sympathy or compassion, for gays who:
“ parade their sin like Sodom;”.

but WE are not supposed to hate sinners.
God will judge them, and punish them, not us.
(...maybe you don’t, but i have my own sins and temptations to worry about.)

in fact, on your FR homepage, you have one of the BEST writings, about hope and reconciliation of sinners:

2 Corinthians 5:17-20
17. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!
18. All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:
19. that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.
20. We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us.

We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God.

.

...i also much prefer the writings of Peter, over Paul.
you listed one of my favorites!
(many people don’t understand, in addition to false prophets like Mohammad and Joseph Smith, it covers false teachers (particularly one who hated Jews, and had no respect for women, by his OWN words).
But sadly, many people have their ear “tickled” by them, about many things, and are led astray.
2 Peter 2
1. But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.

...but again, this is all a tangent, from the great information here by Colofornian and others, about the Mormon church.
(Colofornian has done great work, in educating people!)

i only mentioned Islam, for a legitimate comparison, showing it is a false church, misleading people.
(and that many “muslims” don’t believe it, but are too afraid to officially leave. THEM i have compassion for!)

i only mentioned gays, for a legitimate comparison,
that WE are taught not to hate,
but to hope that all sinners will repent, and pray for forgiveness, and follow our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
.
you also make a great point about Bibles being banned in Saudi Arabia. but even without that, Islam should be banned as seditious, and the Quran as hate speech.

but again, the focus here, should be on Colofornian’s great effort to show the Mormon leaders are liars and false prophets, and to help lead good-hearted Mormons to the truth.


24 posted on 08/09/2011 6:45:28 AM PDT by Elendur (It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. - Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Elendur
but even without that, Islam should be banned as seditious, and the Quran as hate speech.

It appears that yelling FIRE! is allowed in some theaters in the USA.

25 posted on 08/09/2011 9:21:15 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elendur

http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon430.htm
“Joseph Smith’s Arrest Record Surfaces In New York” excerpt:

http://www.padfield.com/2005/mormon-history.html
http://padfieldconsulting.com/mormonism/mormon-comparisons.html
Prisoner brought before the Court March 20, 1826. Prisoner examined: says that he came from the town of Palmyra ... that he had a certain stone which he occasionally looked at to determine where hidden treasures in the bowels of the earth were; that he professed to tell in this manner where gold mines were a distance under ground ... he pretended to tell by looking at this stone where coined money was buried in Pennsylvania, and while at Palmyra he frequently ascertained in that way where lost property was of various kinds...” (Court records of New York).


26 posted on 08/09/2011 9:32:16 AM PDT by Elendur (It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. - Thomas Jefferson)
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