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A bishop witnesses priestís strange Mass and doubts about going to him for confession (Cath Caucus)
WDTPRS ^ | August 8, 2011 | Fr. Zuhlsdorf

Posted on 08/08/2011 2:30:58 PM PDT by NYer

Here is something that should put some heart into readers who are feeling down about continued liberal and dissenting dominance in many places.

Here is something from a blog of a Catholic bishop, His Excellency Most. Rev. Christopher Coyne, auxiliary bishop of the Archdiocese of Indianapolis. He was just consecrated bishop this year.

Here are a few excerpts, but there is a lot of great material over there. We come into the story while the bishop is having a bit of a vacation…. My emphases and comments.

Why I Didn’t Go to Confession Today.

This morning I attended Mass rather than concelebrated Mass. Earlier in the week I was unable to find a Saturday morning Mass anywhere in the area so I was pretty much going to have to miss Mass today. But late last night on the internet I found a church abut a half an hour away that had an 8:00 AM Mass. This was doubly good for me because I wanted to celebrate the Sacrament of Reconciliation if the priest had time after Mass since it and been a few weeks since my last confession. But it was a little late to make any arrangement for concelebration.

I left around 7:15 AM and got there in plenty of time to spend some time preparing for Mass and, hopefully, the Sacrament of Reconciliation. When Mass began, the priest, a guy about my age, came out and said, “Hello,” and then proceeded with the Mass. The only problem was he had forgotten the Sign of the Cross. Well, maybe he was just a little distracted. I think we did the penetential rite but I’m not sure. There was no “Gloria” so I was beginning to think we weren’t going to be celebrating the Feast of the Transfiguration since it hadn’t been mentioned yet but eventually we got there when he “prayed” a spontaneous opening prayer that did mention the Transfiguration. [I am sure this worthy fellow while a simply priest knew about these happenings. It is good, perhaps, to see them with episcopal eyes, too.]

Things kind of went downhill from there. I’ll spare you the details. [...]

As “Mass” progressed I was both disappointed and annoyed. I wasn’t angry. I learned the trick long ago of moving into emotional “cruise control” when this stuff starts to happen. [...] [That would be a good tool to develop.]

[Here is an important bit... and I am sure you have sympathy.] I do know one thing. I certainly wasn’t going to ask him to hear my Confession. If he changed the words of the Institution Narrative, there’s no telling what he might do with the words of Absolution. I suppose I could have asked him before we began the sacrament if he would be so kind as to use the Church’s rite and not his own but then that opens a whole can of worms. So I didn’t go to Confession. I’ll try and make an appointment with a priest and go Monday. But isn’t it a shame that I couldn’t go to Confession?

Every time people ask my why some in the Church have a desire for the “extraordinary rite,” the traditional Latin Mass, I guess I can give them at least one good reason. Masses like this. When one attends the Mass according to the Tridentine Rite, you know what you are going to get. There is no one being ‘creative,’ no one making up their own prayers or rite, and no question of validity. I am a child of Vatican II. From the time I was old enough to understand what was happening at Mass, it has been the Mass of Pope Paul VI. I have been formed in it. I have studied it. I love it. Outof it, I have been ordained a deacon, a priest, and a bishop to celebrate it for the people of God. I have no desire to celebrate the Tridentine Rite but any time I hear people criticize those who want the “traditional” Mass, I am more inclined to understand why they want this form of the Mass. Perhaps if each priest were committed to the correct celebration of the present Mass of Paul VI – the Church’s rites and not the rite of Fr. X – then maybe there would be less clamor for the “traditional” rite. Just a thought. [While there are differences in the two forms which are themselves a basis for preferences, aside from the ars celebrandi, he has a good point. No?]

First, WDTPRS kudos to Bp. Coyne for writing about this. For writing at all! Good for him!

Second, how many times have I talked about how priests who screw around with rites of sacraments, especially the form of sacraments, sew sow doubts in people’s minds and leave them unsettled, if not downright fearful. If this sort of thing can happen in the mind of a bishop, how much more understandable is it that it would happen among the faithful when a priest fools around with the words of baptism or consecration during Mass?


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Ministry/Outreach; Theology
KEYWORDS: brokencaucus; catholic; liturgy; mass

1 posted on 08/08/2011 2:31:02 PM PDT by NYer
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To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; SumProVita; ...

Catholic Caucus Thread


2 posted on 08/08/2011 2:31:59 PM PDT by NYer ("Be kind to every person you meet. For every person is fighting a great battle." St. Ephraim)
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Comment #3 Removed by Moderator

To: NYer
..... the priest, a guy about my age, ...

Until I know what that age is, I'm willing to cut the priest some slack.

4 posted on 08/08/2011 2:37:21 PM PDT by Polybius
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To: buffyt
If you have never been married, and never had children, you do not have a clue.

Guess that rules Jesus out. Thanks for playing.

5 posted on 08/08/2011 2:39:20 PM PDT by Puddleglum (expand the tax base and unfetter the economy or we're screwed)
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To: buffyt

What, exactly, does your comment have to do with the article?


6 posted on 08/08/2011 2:41:03 PM PDT by buccaneer81 (ECOMCON)
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To: Puddleglum; buffyt
Guess that rules Jesus out. Thanks for playing.

Since Jesus is God incarnate and was present during creation, as all things were made through Him, I'd say He's not to be held to the same standards as we would hold man.

I respect that you might believe differently.

7 posted on 08/08/2011 2:44:03 PM PDT by Grizzled Bear ("Does not play well with others.")
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To: buccaneer81

It’s the obligatory slapshot by a mindless drone.


8 posted on 08/08/2011 2:45:19 PM PDT by OpusatFR
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To: Grizzled Bear

St. Paul?


9 posted on 08/08/2011 2:48:56 PM PDT by Puddleglum (expand the tax base and unfetter the economy or we're screwed)
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To: buffyt

So according to your way of thinking...

A man can’t be a obstetrician because he can’t get pregnant.

And if you’ve never had cancer, you can’t be an oncologist.

You can’t be a historian unless you experienced the event.

or...

Unless you’re black, you don’t understand racism.


10 posted on 08/08/2011 2:52:33 PM PDT by PanzerKardinal (Some things are so idiotic only an intellectual would believe it.)
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To: OpusatFR
It’s the obligatory slapshot by a mindless drone.

That's what I thought.

11 posted on 08/08/2011 2:52:59 PM PDT by buccaneer81 (ECOMCON)
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To: buffyt

You can’t be serious. Dante never left Rome but he knew the world. And if you’d been watching recent crime documentaries you’d know of pastors killing one another over adultery etc., to say nothing of the in-laws and issues of inheritance and property claims like what’s going on at Annaheim’s Crystal Cathedral. You don’t have to be married to know about issues of morality and scripture.


12 posted on 08/08/2011 2:57:09 PM PDT by Steelfish (ui)
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To: Puddleglum

I’ll have to remember that...


13 posted on 08/08/2011 2:59:22 PM PDT by BenKenobi (Honkeys for Herman!)
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To: buffyt

Who asked you? Have any sensible comments about the article?


14 posted on 08/08/2011 2:59:31 PM PDT by pgkdan (Time for a Cain Mutiny!)
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To: Puddleglum
St. Paul?

Shoots.......And Scores!

15 posted on 08/08/2011 2:59:48 PM PDT by PanzerKardinal (Some things are so idiotic only an intellectual would believe it.)
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To: Puddleglum

Two for two. Man. I’ll have to remember this one too...


16 posted on 08/08/2011 3:01:21 PM PDT by BenKenobi (Honkeys for Herman!)
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To: buffyt

Luther was an ordained priest.


17 posted on 08/08/2011 3:02:23 PM PDT by BenKenobi (Honkeys for Herman!)
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To: NYer
As “Mass” progressed I was both disappointed and annoyed. I wasn’t angry. I learned the trick long ago of moving into emotional “cruise control” when this stuff starts to happen. [...]

That's a discipline I wish I could develop. Whenever I'm present at a 'Mass'' such as this I leave in a state far removed from the State of Grace I should be in after Mass!

My wife and I vacation every year at a lake in SW VA and I have ceased attending Mass at all while I'm out there because I can't find anyplace to attend that doesn't leave feeling like I missed Mass.

18 posted on 08/08/2011 3:02:49 PM PDT by pgkdan (Time for a Cain Mutiny!)
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To: NYer
This morning I attended Mass rather than concelebrated Mass. Earlier in the week I was unable to find a Saturday morning Mass anywhere in the area so I was pretty much going to have to miss Mass today.

Why would he miss Mass? Does he mean he'd miss a public Mass? Don't priests still carry a Mass kit with them so they can celebrate Mass everyday no matter where they are?

19 posted on 08/08/2011 3:04:22 PM PDT by pgkdan (Time for a Cain Mutiny!)
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To: NYer
This morning I attended Mass rather than concelebrated Mass. Earlier in the week I was unable to find a Saturday morning Mass anywhere in the area so I was pretty much going to have to miss Mass today.

Why would he miss Mass? Does he mean he'd miss a public Mass? Don't priests still carry a Mass kit with them so they can celebrate Mass everyday no matter where they are?

I never heard of a bishop who would miss Mass because he couldn't find a convenient one that meets his schedule...change your schedule if you must.

20 posted on 08/08/2011 3:05:18 PM PDT by pgkdan (Time for a Cain Mutiny!)
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To: buffyt

Thank you for demonstrating why the mods, in their infinite wisdom, saw fit to establish a system of “caucus”, “ecumenical”, “prayer” and “devotional” threads in addition to the usual “open” flamefests.


21 posted on 08/08/2011 3:05:56 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: NYer
Every time people ask my why some in the Church have a desire for the “extraordinary rite,” the traditional Latin Mass, I guess I can give them at least one good reason. Masses like this. When one attends the Mass according to the Tridentine Rite, you know what you are going to get. There is no one being ‘creative,’ no one making up their own prayers or rite, and no question of validity.

Dear Bishop Coyne,
Welcome to the real world. Us pew-sittin' Catholics have had to put up with this nonsense for going-on 40 years. What are you going to do about it? When you get back to your diocese, how will you treat complaints of liturgical abuse? Will you police the priests in your diocese? God has granted you great authority as a Bishop. Use it for good. We've had too many Bishops who can't or won't teach, sanctify, and govern.

22 posted on 08/08/2011 3:11:16 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: pgkdan
My wife and I vacation every year at a lake in SW VA and I have ceased attending Mass at all while I'm out there because I can't find anyplace to attend that doesn't leave feeling like I missed Mass.

How far is the lake from Roanoke or Glen Allen?

23 posted on 08/08/2011 3:12:05 PM PDT by NYer ("Be kind to every person you meet. For every person is fighting a great battle." St. Ephraim)
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To: buccaneer81
It never stops.

I wonder if we would care if someone tells us on the road that the bridge fell down do not go down this road. Would I wonder why a single man has the right to tell me. So lets just drive all the way.

It is like you can't make this rapid anti-stuff up. The hate over rides his context on the context of the subject. It has nothing to do with it. Astonishing!! The blindness of hate? WOW!! ROFL!!!

24 posted on 08/08/2011 3:14:37 PM PDT by johngrace (1 John 4)
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To: johngrace

Agreed.


25 posted on 08/08/2011 3:15:51 PM PDT by buccaneer81 (ECOMCON)
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To: NYer

Is it possible that the Bishop was recognized by the celebrant? The surprise of Bishop Coyne being there could have given the celebrant what we altar boys used to call “the heebie jeebies”.


26 posted on 08/08/2011 3:22:23 PM PDT by Cyman
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To: NYer; pgkdan
How far is the lake from Roanoke or Glen Allen? I beleive that I am sadly aquainted with this parish. Is it the one that the priest comes out and does a "Good morning Viet Nam" style opening and uses glass chalices for the precious blood, no kneelers etc....?
27 posted on 08/08/2011 3:25:01 PM PDT by verga (I am not an apologist, I just play one on Television)
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To: buffyt

The True Church is always ready to welcome you back into its warm embrace.


28 posted on 08/08/2011 3:34:41 PM PDT by starlifter (Pullum sapit)
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To: BenKenobi

“Luther was an ordained priest.”

He was also a raving anti-semite, whose scribblings (”On Jews and their Lies”) planted the seed for Hitler’s Mein Kamf and the resulting Shoa.


29 posted on 08/08/2011 3:42:47 PM PDT by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
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To: Jewbacca

Amen!!the Truth!!


30 posted on 08/08/2011 3:45:55 PM PDT by johngrace (1 John 4)
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To: Jewbacca

Thanks for having our backs! :)

Good to see you around.


31 posted on 08/08/2011 3:47:55 PM PDT by BenKenobi (Honkeys for Herman!)
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To: verga

Is that Bishop DeLorenzo’s diocese?


32 posted on 08/08/2011 3:50:53 PM PDT by OpusatFR
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To: buffyt

Now that’s funny!


33 posted on 08/08/2011 4:06:37 PM PDT by jacknhoo (Luke 12:51. Think ye, that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, no; but separation.)
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To: NYer

MESSAGE FOR ALL CATHOLICS:

“JESUS IS IN THE CONFESSIONAL”

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Jesus knew that people would really need to hear these words of re-assurance today, so He went on to say “Come with faith to the feet of My representative...and make your confession before Me. The person of the priest is, for Me, only a screen. Never analyze what sort of a priest that I am making use of; open your soul in confession as you would to Me, and I will fill it with My light.” (1725) “Here the misery of the soul meets the God of mercy.” (1602)

http://www.divinemercysunday.com/sample_stories.htm


34 posted on 08/08/2011 4:12:18 PM PDT by jacknhoo (Luke 12:51. Think ye, that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, no; but separation.)
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To: buffyt; Puddleglum
If you have never been married, and never had children, you do not have a clue. You can’t learn these things in a book.

Does that mean that you have cut the Pauline Epistles completely out from your Bible?

35 posted on 08/08/2011 4:23:14 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: Puddleglum

Go back to the marshes..


36 posted on 08/08/2011 4:25:07 PM PDT by Mmogamer (I refudiate the lamestream media, leftists and their prevaricutions.)
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To: Jewbacca
He was also a raving anti-semite, whose scribblings (”On Jews and their Lies”) planted the seed for Hitler’s Mein Kamf and the resulting Shoa.

Very good. Martin Luther, like the other two main characters of the Reformation had their own personal overriding reasons for their role. And exactly none of them were theological.

37 posted on 08/08/2011 4:26:13 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: NYer

Oh my, was Bishop Coyne this priest’s Bishop? If so, then Bishop Coyne needs to have a ‘come to Jesus’ meeting with him. If he’s not this priest’s Bishop, I hope he dropped a line to his Bishop, repeating what his column said.


38 posted on 08/08/2011 4:44:47 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: Puddleglum
Paul chose his life style. I've often suspected that his urges, if followed, would have led him to behave in unholy ways. Do you recall that he complained about a thorn in his flesh which he asked The Lord to remove. The Lord told him “My grace is sufficient for you.”

Catholics often use Paul's comment that he “wished all were like me, forsaking marriage (paraphrased).” He continues by saying men should have one wife each and women one husband each. He also said young widows should remarry.

There's plenty of Biblical, New Testament instruction that Priests should marry. When did this change within the Catholic Church? Why did they change it?

39 posted on 08/08/2011 4:45:10 PM PDT by Grizzled Bear ("Does not play well with others.")
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To: Jewbacca

The anti-semitic ravings of Martin Luther are no more a part of Lutheran doctrine than the anti-semetic ravings of, say, Clement VIII are of Catholic doctrine.


40 posted on 08/08/2011 4:45:22 PM PDT by Mr. Lucky
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To: Mr. Lucky

I know nothing about Pope Clement, but I do know Luther’s 7 point plan* for extermination of my people was put into practice by people waving his tracts in Neurenburg.

Saying anything good about Luther is like saying “but Hitler liked dogs and made the trains run on time.” Maybe so, but his greater evil far outweighed anything else he had ot offer.

* Luther’s Seven Point Plan for the Jewish People

1. Jewish synagogues and schools to be burned to the ground, and the remnants buried out of sight;

2. for houses owned by Jews to be likewise razed, and the owners made to live in camps;

3. for their religious writings to be taken away;

4. for rabbis to be forbidden to preach, and to be executed if they do;

5. for safe conduct on the roads to be abolished for Jews;

6. for all silver and gold (and other wealth of Jews) to be removed and “put aside for safekeeping”; and

7. for the Jewish population to be put to work as slave labor.


41 posted on 08/08/2011 4:57:40 PM PDT by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
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