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Mormonism and Mitt Romney’s “Weirdness”
New York Times ^ | Aug. 9, 2011 | Ross Douthat

Posted on 08/11/2011 4:29:28 AM PDT by Colofornian

...we pretty much know what kind of re-election campaign Barack Obama is going to wage: A relentlessly negative one, which...will focus almost exclusively on making the challenger seem unacceptable rather than defending the sitting president’s accomplishments. Thanks to Ben Smith at Politico, we also know roughly how the White House plans to “destroy Mitt Romney,”...By “attacking him as inauthentic, unprincipled and, in a word used repeatedly by Obama’s advisers in about a dozen interviews, ‘weird.’”

Weird how, you ask? Here’s Smith:

The character attacks on Romney will focus on what critics view as a makeover, both personal (skinny jeans) and political (abortion) … Democrats also plan to amplify what Obama strategists described as the “weirdness” quotient, the sum of awkward public encounters and famous off-kilter anecdotes, first among them the tale of Romney having strapped his dog to the roof of his car.

SNIP

...The crucial thing to understand here is that Romney’s Latter Day Saint affiliation isn’t just a potential liability among evangelical voters in Republican primaries. It’s a potential general election liability as well. In a recent Gallup poll, 18 percent of Republicans described themselves as unwilling to vote for a Mormon candidate — but that number actually climbed to 19 percent among Independents, and 27 percent among Democrats.

Who are these non-conservative Mormon skeptics?... theologically conservative/politically liberal Christians (mainly African American and Hispanic) who regard Mormonism as a dangerous heresy...secular liberals...who dislike L.D.S...positions...people who don’t have a particular theological or political ax to grind, who know Mormonism primarily through pop culture (from “Big Love” and “Sister Wives” to “South Park” and “The Book of Mormon”) and the occasional encounter with bicycling missionaries, and who have a vague sense of the L.D.S. church as little bit cultish, a little bit outside-the-mainstream, and a little bit, well, weird...

(Excerpt) Read more at douthat.blogs.nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Current Events; Moral Issues; Other Christian; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: andtimormonfatwa; antiamericanism; antimormonjihad; antimormonrant; bitterformermormon; blackliberation; blah; blahblah; blahblahblah; blahblahblahblah; inman; lds; liberationtheology; mormoaner; mormon; mormoncard; mormonexcuses; religiousbigot; religiouszealotry; romney; weirdness; whiningmormons
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From the article: The character attacks on Romney will focus on what critics view as a makeover, both personal (skinny jeans) and political (abortion) … Democrats also plan to amplify what Obama strategists described as the “weirdness” quotient, the sum of awkward public encounters and famous off-kilter anecdotes, first among them the tale of Romney having strapped his dog to the roof of his car.

Weird. Except the supposed abortion "makeover." That's just bloody slimy.

1 posted on 08/11/2011 4:29:32 AM PDT by Colofornian
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Comment #2 Removed by Moderator

To: Colofornian

Weird? Like Obama isn’t? LoL.


3 posted on 08/11/2011 4:36:01 AM PDT by nuconvert ( Khomeini promised change too // Hail, Chairman O)
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To: nuconvert

Exactly. I don’t think Obama wants to go there, to open that door.


4 posted on 08/11/2011 4:37:22 AM PDT by mkmensinger
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To: parksstp

[Funny, the people who go after LDS as heresy (which I think it is) don’t seem to have a problem with black liberation theology?]

You are full of crap. I can send you numerous chapters from three books I’ve written that go into liberation theology with nary a mention of Mormonism. It is just that I don’t see much chance that Allen West, or Herman Cain, or Thomas Sowell or Clarence Thomas et. al. are ever going to be into Mormonism or Black Liberation Theology. So you sir are full of it. I guarantee no one on Free Republic would support someone into Black Liberation Theology.


5 posted on 08/11/2011 4:43:59 AM PDT by DaxtonBrown (HARRY: Money Mob & Influence (See my Expose on Reid on amazon.com written by me!))
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To: Colofornian
Heard Sean Hannity interview Willard last night. Hannity referred to Romney as the Republican front runner. Based on what????

Romney said Obama should apologize for Obamacare. I wanted to yell at the TV and ask him where he got the idea from.

Romney will never get my vote no matter what.

6 posted on 08/11/2011 4:47:32 AM PDT by fulltlt
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To: Colofornian
Why the hell are we letting the liberals persecute a fellow American for a religion that has played a key, no pivotal role in the history and foundation of our nation?!?

To HELL with the New York Times and their NAZI BLOGGERS...

7 posted on 08/11/2011 4:54:15 AM PDT by Caipirabob ( Communists... Socialists... Democrats...Traitors... Who can tell the difference?)
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To: fulltlt
Romney will never get my vote no matter what.

Mine, neither! Still, he's free to worship God in this country and I won't let the democrats set their Nazi thugs to persecute him or anyone else.

8 posted on 08/11/2011 4:57:15 AM PDT by Caipirabob ( Communists... Socialists... Democrats...Traitors... Who can tell the difference?)
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To: DaxtonBrown

? I’m sorry, I think you’ve misinterpreted my comment to mean something it didn’t. I was referring to this:

“Who are these non-conservative Mormon skeptics?... theologically conservative/politically liberal Christians (mainly African American and Hispanic) who regard Mormonism as a dangerous heresy...secular liberals...who dislike L.D.S...positions”

I was thinking along people such as Rev. Wright and other Black Liberation theologists who think there’s nothing wrong with the hate message they preach, but apparentally will be the first to jump out and accuse mormonism of heresy, which I find ironic.

In no way did I mean to apply any references to conservatives such as West, Sowell, Thomas, etc. The paragraph I cited referred to non-conservatives. Sorry for the confusion.


9 posted on 08/11/2011 5:02:10 AM PDT by parksstp (Articulate Conservatives look for Converts. RINO's look for Democrat Heretics.)
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To: Caipirabob
Why the hell are we letting the liberals persecute a fellow American for a religion that has played a key, no pivotal role in the history and foundation of our nation?!?

Did you know it's Mormon "doctrine" to regard all of the Christian founding fathers of our country as members of "apostate" churches?

Joseph Smith's original vision -- later made into Mormon "scripture" -- Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith History, vv. 18-20...labels the believers of Christian sects in the 1820s as ALL "corrupt" as professing believers.

Smith said they believed 100% abominable creeds.

Mormon doctrine is that the Christian church apostatized off the face of the earth. Given that Muslims label Christians as "infidels," isn't much difference in Islam's doctrine of Christianity vs. the Lds church's...is there now?

10 posted on 08/11/2011 5:06:55 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: parksstp
...the people who go after LDS as heresy (which I think it is) don’t seem to have a problem with black liberation theology?

HMMMmmm...

I hadn't noticed.

Perhaps you could give some examples.

11 posted on 08/11/2011 5:16:49 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Caipirabob
...persecute a fellow American...

What?

12 posted on 08/11/2011 5:18:15 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Caipirabob
Still, he's free to worship God in this country and I won't let the democrats set their Nazi thugs to persecute him or anyone else.

Last time I looked; payback is STILL a bitch!


 

Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).
Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).
 
 
Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses  5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses  8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses  8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses  10:230).
Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).
 
 
Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses , vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).
 
President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).
James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).
 
 
President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).
 
 
More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).
President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).
 
 
President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

13 posted on 08/11/2011 5:20:26 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Colofornian
Obama's "weird" Black Liberation Theology...

"Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal".--James (Jim) Cone,
African American Religious Thought: An Anthology (Paperback)
by Cornel West (Editor), Eddie S. Glaude Jr. (Editor)
____________________________________________

SEAN HANNITY: But Reverend Jeremiah Wright is not backing down and has not for years and in his strong stance on the teaching of black liberation theology is nothing new. He had the same things to say last spring when he appeared on "Hannity & Colmes:"

WRIGHT: If you're not going to talk about theology in context, if you're not going to talk about liberation theology that came out of the '60s, systematized black liberation theology that started with Jim Cone in 1968 and the writings of Cone and the writings of Dwight Hopkins and the writings of womynist theologians and Asian theologians and Hispanic theologians, then you can't talk about the black value system.

HANNITY: But I'm a — reverend

WRIGHT: Do you know liberation theology, sir?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,354158,00.html
____________________________________________

Obama's Church: Gospel of Hate
Kathy Shaidle, FrontPageMag.com
Monday, April 07, 2008

In March of 2007, FOX News host Sean Hannity had engaged Obama’s pastor in a heated interview about his Church’s teachings. For many viewers, the ensuing shouting match was their first exposure to "Black Liberation Theology"...

Like the pro-communist Liberation Theology that swept Central America in the 1980s and was repeatedly condemned by Pope John Paul II, Black Liberation Theology combines warmed-over 1960s vintage Marxism with carefully distorted biblical passages. However, in contrast to traditional Marxism, it emphasizes race rather than class. The Christian notion of "salvation" in the afterlife is superseded by "liberation" on earth, courtesy of the establishment of a socialist utopia.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=30CD9E14-B0C9-4F8C-A0A6-A896F0F44F02
____________________________________________

Catholics for Marx [Liberation Theology]
By Fr. Robert Sirico
FrontPageMagazine.com | Thursday, June 03, 2004

In the days when the Superpowers were locked in a Cold War, Latin America seethed with revolution, and millions lived behind an iron curtain, a group of theologians concocted a novel idea within the history of Christianity. They proposed to combine the teachings of Jesus with the teachings of Marx as a way of justifying violent revolution to overthrow the economics of capitalism.

The Gospels were re-rendered not as doctrine impacting on the human soul but rather as windows into the historical dialectic of class struggle. These "liberation theologians" saw every biblical criticism of the rich as a mandate to expropriate the expropriating owners of capital, and every expression of compassion for the poor as a call for an uprising by the proletarian class of peasants and workers.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=460782B7-35CC-4C9E-A2C5-93832067C7CD
____________________________________________

"Their founding document [the Weather Underground's] called for the establishment of a "white fighting force" to be allied with the "Black Liberation Movement" and other "anti-colonial" movements[1] to achieve "the destruction of US imperialism and the achievement of a classless world: world communism."..."-Berger, Dan (2006). Outlaws of America: The Weather Underground and the Politics of Solidarity. AK Press, 95.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weatherman_Underground#cite_ref-Berger_0-0

Outlaws of America: The Weather Underground and the Politics of Solidarity (Paperback) by Dan Berger
http://www.amazon.com/Outlaws-America-Underground-Politics-Solidarity/dp/1904859410
____________________________________________

From the New York Times, August 24, 2003

"they [the Weather Underground] employed revolutionary jargon, advocated armed struggle and black liberation and began bombing buildings, taking responsibility for at least 20 attacks. Estimates of their number ranged at times from several dozen to several hundred."

Article: Quieter Lives for 60's Militants, but Intensity of Beliefs Hasn't Faded
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F04E4DE1539F937A1575BC0A9659C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=2
____________________________________________

Photobucket
Rev. Dr. Jeremiah Wright and Dr. William Ayers
are greeted by Rebekah Levin with the Committee
for a Just Peace in Israel and Palestine.
(Chuck Berman/Chicago Tribune / May 17, 2009)
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-ayers_wrightmay18,0,6689521.story

14 posted on 08/11/2011 5:28:55 AM PDT by ETL (ALL (most?) of the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: parksstp

Funny, the people who go after LDS as heresy (which I think it is) don’t seem to have a problem with black liberation theology? Interesting.

- - - - -
Hogwash. I have issues with both.

The difference for me is, while I have read books on Black liberation theology, I LIVED Mormonism.


15 posted on 08/11/2011 5:29:15 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost, but now am found; was blind but now I see")
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To: Caipirabob

Why the hell are we letting the liberals persecute a fellow American for a religion that has played a key, no pivotal role in the history and foundation of our nation?!?

- - - - - -

WTH???? This country was founded LONG before Smith came up with his folk tale the Book of Mormon.

Mormons had NOTHING NOTHING to do with the foundation of this nation, and even took oaths against AMERICA (I can source it if you want).

Now, if this article were attacking Puritans, Deists, Catholics, Methodists or some other religions THAT WAS IN EXISTENCE at the founding of this country, we can talk.

Mormonism is a cult. Period.


16 posted on 08/11/2011 5:33:04 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost, but now am found; was blind but now I see")
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To: parksstp
the people who go after LDS as heresy (which I think it is) don’t seem to have a problem with black liberation theology?

The Real Story Behind Rev. Wright's Controversial Black Liberation Theology Doctrine
Monday , May 5, 2008
FoxNews/Hannity's America
[special Friday night edition--original airdate May 2, 2008]

(some key excerpts)

["(Jose) Diaz-Balart is the son of Rafael Diaz-Balart y Guitierrez (a former Cuban politician). He has three bothers, Rafael Diaz-Balart (a banker), Mario Diaz-Balart (a US Congressman) and Lincoln Diaz-Balart (also a US Congressman). His aunt, Mirta Diaz-Balart, was Fidel Castro's first wife."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jose_Diaz-Balart]

JOSE DIAZ-BALART, TELEMUNDO NETWORK: "Liberation theology in Nicaragua in the mid-1980's was a pro-Sandinista, pro-Marxist, anti-U.S., anti-Catholic Church movement. That's it. No ifs, ands, or buts. His church apparently supported, in the mid-'80s in Nicaragua, groups that supported the Sandinista dictatorships and that were opposed to the Contras whose reason for being was calling for elections. That's all I know. I was there.

I saw the churches in Nicaragua that he spoke of, and the churches were churches that talked about the need for violent revolution and I remember clearly one of the major churches in Managua where the Jesus Christ on the altar was not Jesus Christ, he was a Sandinista soldier, and the priests talked about the corruption of the West, talked about the need for revolution everywhere, and talked about 'the evil empire' which was the United States of America."

REV. BOB SCHENCK, NATIONAL CLERGY COUNCIL: "it's based in Marxism. At the core of his [Wright's] theology is really an anti-Christian understanding of God, and as part of a long history of individuals who actually advocate using violence in overthrowing those they perceive to be oppressing them, even acts of murder have been defended by followers of liberation theology. That's very, very dangerous."

SCHENCK: "I was actually the only person escorted to Dr. Wright. He asked to see me, and I simply welcomed him to Washington, and then I said Dr. Wright, I want to bring you a warning: your embrace of Marxist liberation theology. It is contrary to the Gospel, and you need, sir, to abandon it. And at that he dropped the handshake and made it clear that he was not in the mood to dialogue on that point."

Source: The Real Story Behind Rev. Wright's Controversial Black Liberation Theology Doctrine:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,354158,00.html

17 posted on 08/11/2011 5:35:41 AM PDT by ETL (ALL (most?) of the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: Caipirabob; reaganaut
Why the hell are we letting the liberals persecute a fellow American for a religion that has played a key, no pivotal role in the history and foundation of our nation?!?

I would like to hear a few things to describe what exactly Mormonism has done in a pivotal way for the history and foundation of our nation. Sure, they settled on free land in the west as a place to hide once again as they ran from the law. Pivotal? Please.

18 posted on 08/11/2011 5:44:05 AM PDT by Utah Binger (Southern Utah where Freepers will meet again next summer. Especially Elsie!)
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To: mkmensinger

To a person raised in that cult being a Mormon is a full time job. It’s not uncommon for a person to spend 40hrs a week either in church, at church activities, or working for the church. Children are hauled out of bed at 4am to attend Mormon classes before going to eight hours of school, then afterschool sent to church youth activities that keep them off the streets and prevents them from interacting with non-mormon kids...they’re encouaged to invite them to church, however. A typical mormon Sunday worship begins at 6am for priesthood meetings, (indoctrination) classes until 8, worship for two hours, then two hours for more classes, break for lunch, and then Sabbath meetings until 6pm. There is no offering plate, at tax time you bring your 1040’s to the bishop, he calculates 10% of your income and you pay up. If you’r a male teenager you are expected to work odd jobs to save for your “mission”, where the church sends you to whatever part of the planet they choose for you to convert new mormons for two years and the teenager must pay for it all himself.

To put the frosting on the cake, every little mormon believes they are preparing to become a god and create universes of their own, or a wife to a god (being divine is an all-males club) and as a wife to a god you are eternally “spiritually pregnant” making souls to populate worlds while hubby god is off making them. If a man is behind in his mormon o
bligations, he goes to heaven, but he has to live in the “slum areas” of heaven
If a mormon female dies unmarried to a future god, she simply goes to hell. Along with the entire population of non-mormons on planet earth, I might add.

The pressure of being a future god takes its toll. Young mormons often have mental issues and high rates of suicide if they truly believe, because there is no redemption for sin in the Mormon church, Christ serves as an example of a perfect man, not a divine deliverer. “be ye perfect as I am perfect” is a phrase drilled into your head with machine gun repetition. Older momons become jaded and often the aim is to look as perfect as possible to other momons to “keep up with the Jones’” and to maintaintheir positions and responsibilities in the church, which often confer earthly advantages.
mormons work for mormons, rent from mormons, buy their goods from mormon businesses.

In short, you average devoted mormon is a person from a closed off culture who believes it’s a survival issue to be perfect, or seem so, and is eternally insecure without the Linus blanket of the church wrapped around them, and their final loyalty is to the president of the church, who is the god who mediates between the earthly gods and “the” God, who after all also was a man on another planet who also followed this insane cult to become a god.

I was raised in the church, and before you believe a word out of a mormon’s mouth, I must relate one of the first things the church teaches you is that “its a greater sin to lose a convert than to lie about a church belief that might offend them and turn them away”, hence the millions of dollars spent on commercials and missionaries sent all over the globe to chant the mantra “we’re just regular Christians like you”. They’re not.

Try googling “ ex-mormon” sometime and see the incredible human damage that lies in the wake of this cult. The survivors of this pseudo-spiritual empire are not the “anti-mormon conspiracy” trolling mormon apologists invect ad nauseum on these forums. They are victims.


19 posted on 08/11/2011 5:46:34 AM PDT by tarotsailor
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To: Colofornian

Members of strange or unusual churches need to make clear their position on the relationship of church and state: If they believe in a secular state that upholds religious freedom, what’s the problem? If they believe that the state should legislate morality, then there’s a big problem.

As a rule, Democrats, believing as they do in “social justice,” spill their religious beliefs into government. Republicans are confusing. Some would have the government attempt to implement a social conservative agenda, while others would have the government stay out of people’s private lives. We might suppose that Romney, who is a moderate on social issues, is the latter (a “live and let live” kind of guy). But, it is still necessary for him to address the issue. It is even a good opportunity to speak to the principle of limited government, in economic matters as well as personal matters.

As for one church condemning another, yes, the Mormons describe all Christians as apostate. That is a problem for Romney. Does he agree with this teaching of the Mormon Church? Even if he is a live and let live kind of guy, it is still creepy to think any person in the position of President of the United States thinks the majority of Americans are apostates. Can Romney say that the Mormon Church creeps him out with this doctrine? Can he ask the President of the Mormon Church to get a Word of Knowledge, even to ask all the people of the United States to pray for this, so Mormons can join in communion with Christians?

There is also the racial issue. He has spoken to this in the past, saying that when he was a boy or a young man (I don’t recall how he characterized his age), his family was thankful that the special limitations for black people were lifted by the President of the Mormon Church. O.K., but does expressing this recollection go far enough? Did he think the Mormon Church was wrong in its limitations on black people? Or, did he and does he think that black people used to be inferior to white people? Again, it would creep me out to think that the President of the United States was raised in a church that taught that any race was superior or inferior to another. The Protestant denominations that used to teach such things have apologized for this sin. Maybe the Mormons have. Mitt will have to tell us about this.

Finally, I will mention the polygamy issue. The Mormons used to allow polygamy and, then, after exhausting their appeals to the courts of this country when the Congress passed a law against it, they came down against it for practical reasons, so Mormons could live peacefully in this country. Some Mormons relocated out of the country, so as not to break up their polygamous families. Among these was Romney’s paternal lineage. Romney’s father was born in Mexico and never naturalized upon entry into this country. In my opinion, Mitt is an anchor baby and according to the strictest interpretation of “natural born,” is not qualified to be President. He would also be the first Hispanic President. All that to the side, what’s his position on polygamy?

Was the Supreme Court correct to uphold a Congressional law banning polygamy, where - in the U.S. Constitution - does the Congress get this power? And, how can the government discriminate between polygamous marriages and other forms of marriage? In the famous Texas sodomy case, the U.S. Supreme Court said that the State had no interest in homosexuality; and, Justice Scalia, in his opinion, asks what, then, is the State’s interest in incest, polygamy, and so forth?

Normally, candidates for President aren’t asked about polygamy. But, Mitt, by reason of being the grandchild of a polygamous family that relocated to Mexico rather than conform to the laws of this country, will have to address this issue.


20 posted on 08/11/2011 6:01:24 AM PDT by Redmen4ever
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To: parksstp

That is what I can’t understand


21 posted on 08/11/2011 6:06:51 AM PDT by mel
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To: tarotsailor
To put the frosting on the cake, every little mormon believes they are preparing to become a god and create universes of their own, or a wife to a god (being divine is an all-males club) and as a wife to a god you are eternally “spiritually pregnant” making souls to populate worlds while hubby god is off making them.

SOME won't believe you without DOCUMENTATION.

OTHERs won't believe you WITH it!!


The Doctrine and Covenants

Section 132

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded 12 July 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, and also the plurality of wives (see History of the Church, 5:501–7). Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.

1–6, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant; 7–14, The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth; 15–20, Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods; 21–25, The strait and narrow way leads to eternal lives; 26–27, The law is given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; 28–39, Promises of eternal increase and exaltation are made to prophets and Saints in all ages; 40–47, Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven; 48–50, The Lord seals upon him his exaltation; 51–57, Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.

 


 

 16Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in amarriage; but are appointed angels in bheaven, which angels are ministering cservants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.

 17For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are aangels of God forever and ever.

 18And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that acovenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God.

 19And again, verily I say unto you, if a man amarry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and beverlasting covenant, and it is csealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of dpromise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the ekeys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit fthrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s gBook of Life, that he shall commit no hmurder whereby to shed innocent iblood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their jexaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the kseeds forever and ever.

 20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from aeverlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be bgods, because they have call power, and the angels are subject unto them.

 21Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my alaw ye cannot attain to this glory.

 22For astrait is the gate, and narrow the bway that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the clives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me.

 23But if ye receive me in the world, then shall ye know me, and shall receive your exaltation; that awhere I am ye shall be also.

 24This is aeternal lives—to bknow the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath csent. I am he. Receive ye, therefore, my law.

 25aBroad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the bdeaths; and many there are that go in thereat, because they creceive me not, neither do they abide in my law.


22 posted on 08/11/2011 6:07:26 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Redmen4ever
If they believe that the state should legislate morality, then there’s a big problem.

Last time I looked, murder, theft, lying... are all things that the STATE looks disfavorably upon.

23 posted on 08/11/2011 6:09:51 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Colofornian

Mormons don’t blow us up.


24 posted on 08/11/2011 6:16:56 AM PDT by chargers fan
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To: chargers fan

Times like this I am glad I live in a predominately Mormon neighborhood a block away from a Mormon Mega Church.

No where near the amount of foreclosures in my neighborhood than there are in the surrounding neighborhood. So this “program” shouldn’t have the same effect on my neighborhood.

I just don’t answer my door when there are people in clean white shirts and backpacks ring my doorbell on the weekend. Heck since the neighborhood is already mostly Mormon they don’t even feel the need to “preach to the choir” so it has been months since any visit... LOL


25 posted on 08/11/2011 6:18:46 AM PDT by GraceG
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To: Caipirabob

Why the () are we letting the liberals persecute a fellow American for a religion that has played a key, no pivotal role in the history and foundation of our nation?!?
_____________________________________________

And what religion would that be ???


26 posted on 08/11/2011 6:22:34 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: All
Excerpt from The American Thinker
Article:
Obama, Black Liberation Theology, and Karl Marx
May 28, 2008

Just one nugget from the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, "Instruction on Certain Aspects of the ‘Theology of Liberation': "...it would be illusory and dangerous to ignore the intimate bond which radically unites them liberation theologies), and to accept elements of the marxist analysis without recognizing its connections with the (Marxist) ideology, or to enter into the practice of the class-struggle and of its marxist interpretation while failing to see the kind of totalitarian society to which this process slowly leads."--Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, Prefect, now Pope Benedict XVI; written in 1984

Understanding that black liberation theology is Marxism dressed up to look like Christianity helps explain why there is no conflict between Cone's "Christianity" [i.e. 'reverend Wright's thing] and Farrakhan's "Nation of Islam." They are two prophets in the same philosophical (Marxist) pod, merely using different religions as backdrops for their black-power aims.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/05/obama_black_liberation_theolog.html

27 posted on 08/11/2011 6:26:22 AM PDT by ETL (ALL (most?) of the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: Elsie
[ If they believe that the state should legislate morality, then there’s a big problem.

Last time I looked, murder, theft, lying... are all things that the STATE looks dis favorably upon.]

6 “You shall not murder.

7 “You shall not commit adultery.

8 “You shall not steal.

9 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

10 “You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.”

I think 5 our of 10 of them should be legislated. and that ain't bad.

Of course Liberalism is all about coveting you neighbor's stuff be it their income, their house, their wife, their childhood, their life circumstances. So while you cannot outlaw the act of coveting, we could at least outlaw laws that are made with coveting other people's things in mind.

And the media OWNS number 9 especially when they talk about someone who isn't "progressive"...

28 posted on 08/11/2011 6:29:17 AM PDT by GraceG
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To: chargers fan
Mormons don’t blow us up.

The 1981 Black Liberation Army/Weather Underground-related Triple Murder in Nyack, NY (Brinks truck robbery)

The suspects were often described as "urban terrorists" in the press and cops everywhere were deeply worried about the role of the Black Liberation Army.

The B.L.A. was a notorious and violent group of extremists who planned and carried out unprovoked shootings of uniformed police officers. During the 1970s and early 1980s, there were several of these types of killings of which the B.L.A. were suspect. On May 20, 1971, New York City Police Officers Joseph Piagentini and Waverly Jones were shot and killed in an ambush in Harlem. The following year, on January 28, 1972, officers Gregory Foster and Rocco Laurie were murdered outside a restaurant in Manhattan. Another such shooting occurred on the night of April 16, 1981 when uniform cops pulled over a suspicious van in the St. Alban's section of Queens. Without any warning, two men jumped out of the rear of the van with machine guns and opened up on the unsuspecting cops. Both were immediately killed. This cold-blooded killing enraged cops everywhere. A later investigation indicated that an escaped radical, Joannne Chesimard, one of the most sought after individuals in America, may have been in that van. She was serving a life sentence for her role in the murder of a New Jersey State trooper in 1973 when she escaped from custody in 1979. This theory was never proven, but to this day, many of the investigators who worked on that case believed it to be true.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/terrorists_spies/terrorists/brinks/10.html

http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/index#Section%205

29 posted on 08/11/2011 6:37:51 AM PDT by ETL (ALL (most?) of the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: parksstp
Funny, the people who go after LDS as heresy (which I think it is) don’t seem to have a problem with black liberation theology? Interesting.

I have a problem with both, along with other groups that claim to be Christians. The LDS has been heretical from the beginning and black liberation theology is too and I'm black.

So what's your point?
30 posted on 08/11/2011 6:43:14 AM PDT by ForAmerica (Conservative Christian Black Man!)
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To: parksstp
Funny, the people who go after LDS as heresy (which I think it is) don’t seem to have a problem with black liberation theology? Interesting.

So YOU don't have a problem with Black Liberation theology? Interesting.

31 posted on 08/11/2011 6:46:08 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: Utah Binger
I would like to hear a few things to describe what exactly Mormonism has done in a pivotal way for the history and foundation of our nation. Sure, they settled on free land in the west as a place to hide once again as they ran from the law. Pivotal? Please.

Joseph made up the BOM fairy-tale that Mormons believe is true, I would say that's a pivotal point in history.

Jesus said that this would happen in the "last days" (Church of "Latter-Day" Saints) and God also warned us about this through Paul, very pivotal!
32 posted on 08/11/2011 6:56:09 AM PDT by ForAmerica (Conservative Christian Black Man!)
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To: Elsie
Last time I looked, murder, theft, lying... are all things that the STATE looks disfavorably upon.

Thank you. I can't think of any law prohibiting some action that isn't "legislating morality".

In its original context, the phrase "you can't legislate morality" did not mean that one cannot pass laws embodying moral principles. It meant that doing so doesn't for people to act in a morally upright manner. Doing so only allows the State to punish folks who are caught acting in the proscribed immoral manner. Legislation doesn't make people moral.

33 posted on 08/11/2011 6:57:07 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: chargers fan
Mormons don’t blow us up.

Correct, they just attack men, women and children! Mountain Meadows.

They are a little more subtle now and spiritually kill you for eternity with a different gospel, a different Jesus and a different Spirit. 2 Cor. 11:4 and Gal. 1:6-9
34 posted on 08/11/2011 7:22:25 AM PDT by ForAmerica (Conservative Christian Black Man!)
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To: GraceG
Times like this I am glad I live in a predominately Mormon neighborhood a block away from a Mormon Mega Church.

No where near the amount of foreclosures in my neighborhood than there are in the surrounding neighborhood. So this “program” shouldn’t have the same effect on my neighborhood.

I just don’t answer my door when there are people in clean white shirts and backpacks ring my doorbell on the weekend. Heck since the neighborhood is already mostly Mormon they don’t even feel the need to “preach to the choir” so it has been months since any visit... LOL


Man, I need to live in your neighborhood, I would stay busy talking to them!

I would have a witnessing block party!
35 posted on 08/11/2011 7:28:19 AM PDT by ForAmerica (Conservative Christian Black Man!)
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To: Caipirabob

In Romney’s case you mean Gods, plus he is only a few years from becoming a God himself, I believe his father the Presidential candidate George Romney, is already a God ruling over a planet somewhere, with a bunch of wives.

Perhaps George Stephanopoulos can ask Mitt to fill us in on the current status of his father, that should make for some interesting cover stories for the news magazines.


36 posted on 08/11/2011 7:52:13 AM PDT by ansel12 ( Bristol Palin's book "Not Afraid Of Life: My Journey So Far" became a New York Times, best seller.)
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To: chargers fan

A red herring since no one here has even come close to indicating such a thing.

But from a spiritual and eternal perspective, mormons “blow up” the Bible and the nature of God. Whilst claiming that they’re the only true Christians and that all others are apostate, whores of Babylon, etc.


37 posted on 08/11/2011 8:26:02 AM PDT by SZonian (July 27, 2010. Life begins anew.)
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To: Colofornian
and a little bit, well, weird...

A little bit? These people need to be educated.

38 posted on 08/11/2011 8:48:38 AM PDT by Graybeard58 (Simplistic answers to complex problems never work and are only proposed by simple people.)
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To: chargers fan

“Mormons don’t blow us up.”

That’s an ignorant comment that reduces all arguments to one issue that isn’t an issue for any Presidential candidate on any side...

FACT: Mormons have killed many Americans - then looted the bodies of all valuables. Do they have to blow them up too?


39 posted on 08/11/2011 9:33:00 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (This message carfully checkd to misteakes by powerful softwhere)
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To: GraceG; ForAmerica
Times like this I am glad I live in a predominately Mormon neighborhood a block away from a Mormon Mega Church. No where near the amount of foreclosures in my neighborhood than there are in the surrounding neighborhood. So this “program” shouldn’t have the same effect on my neighborhood.

Well, foreclosure rates vary from Mormon neighborhood to Mormon neighborhood. Overall, it hasn't looked well for Utah. According to one February 2010 Christian Science Monitor article:

A RealtyTrac report released Thursday showed they [Utah] had the fifth-highest foreclosure rate among the states, with 1 in 231 homes receiving a foreclosure notice in January. That's nearly double the national rate and not far from No. 4 Florida's rate of 1 in 187...In mid-decade, when Utah was tops in bankruptcies, various commentators pinned the blame on Mormon religious and cultural practices, such as tithing, creating large families, buying homes at a young age, and as one critic put it: "the pressure in Mormonism to be, or at least appear, financially successful as proof the Lord is blessing them." Indeed, Mormons in 2004 had a bankruptcy rate that was approaching twice that of the national average.
Source: Foreclosure mystery: Why can't conservative Utahns afford their mortgage?

According to a July 2009 Salt Lake Tribune article, Provo-Orem at that time was topping Utah in foreclosure-related filings. That area -- Utah County --"coincidentally" has the HIGHEST % of Lds concentration in the entire state!)

In fact a 2003 article says that 88% of this county is LDS! 88% of Utah County is LDS And the 2009 Trib article says: The Provo-Orem area is ranked No. 31 in foreclosure-related filings among more than 200 areas nationwide, a new report shows.

According to the Trib, the other 2 areas (known for having 56-58% Lds population) that were responsible for the second & third highest rates: The Salt Lake metro area was at No. 58, with Ogden-Clearfield at No. 59 in the report by RealtyTrac, which monitors a wide range of filings from default notices -- in which homeowners are simply behind on their payments but not yet in danger of losing their properties -- to notices that the bank is taking possession of the property. In the Salt Lake metro area, 5,322 properties -- 1.4 percent of all housing units...

40 posted on 08/11/2011 9:51:04 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Redmen4ever
Normally, candidates for President aren’t asked about polygamy. But, Mitt, by reason of being the grandchild of a polygamous family that relocated to Mexico rather than conform to the laws of this country, will have to address this issue.

I believe Mitt is more removed than that...I believe Miles Park Romney, who towed his 4 wives & 30 kids to Mexico in 1885 when fed marshals were starting to go after bigamists, is Mitt's great-grandfather.

So I disagree with your assessment there.

There is also the racial issue. He has spoken to this in the past, saying that when he was a boy or a young man (I don’t recall how he characterized his age), his family was thankful that the special limitations for black people were lifted by the President of the Mormon Church. O.K., but does expressing this recollection go far enough? Did he think the Mormon Church was wrong in its limitations on black people? Or, did he and does he think that black people used to be inferior to white people? Again, it would creep me out to think that the President of the United States was raised in a church that taught that any race was superior or inferior to another. The Protestant denominations that used to teach such things have apologized for this sin. Maybe the Mormons have. Mitt will have to tell us about this.

Good Qs. One thing about "apogogizing" for his sin is that Lds have numerous racist verses in both the Book of Mormon & another sacred book, The Book of Abraham. (Kind of hard for them to "apologize" about their so-called "good books").

I'll give you specific references in another post.

As for one church condemning another, yes, the Mormons describe all Christians as apostate. That is a problem for Romney. Does he agree with this teaching of the Mormon Church? Even if he is a live and let live kind of guy, it is still creepy to think any person in the position of President of the United States thinks the majority of Americans are apostates. Can Romney say that the Mormon Church creeps him out with this doctrine.

Yes, not very "inspiring" for Christians to vote for somebody who privately deems them as "corrupt" apostates who embrace abominations for their creeds.

41 posted on 08/11/2011 10:01:37 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

I don’t see an organized effort on the part of Mormons today dedicated to the violent conversion of the populace. Do I think they’re incorrect in their theology? Yeah. Do I think they’re going to come kill me? No. Would you rather sit next to a devout Mormon or Muslim?


42 posted on 08/11/2011 10:17:31 AM PDT by chargers fan
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To: Utah Binger; Caipirabob

Well, the Republican party was founded in part to do away with their polygamy, and then there was the Mountain Meadows Massacre.

Those might be ‘pivotal’.


43 posted on 08/11/2011 10:48:08 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost, but now am found; was blind but now I see")
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To: Colofornian

0bama will NEVER get my vote.


44 posted on 08/11/2011 11:00:00 AM PDT by Chi-townChief
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To: Colofornian

I live in Colorado


45 posted on 08/11/2011 11:01:58 AM PDT by GraceG
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To: tarotsailor

Well said, and congrats on escaping.


46 posted on 08/11/2011 11:10:57 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost, but now am found; was blind but now I see")
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To: GraceG

Interesting since Utah, the highest Mormon state, also has the highest number of foreclosures per capita.


47 posted on 08/11/2011 11:14:36 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost, but now am found; was blind but now I see")
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To: chargers fan; aMorePerfectUnion

Would you rather sit next to a devout Mormon or Muslim?

- - - - -
Muslim. And I have studied Islam and lived Mormonism.

Sadly, I trust the average American muslim more.


48 posted on 08/11/2011 11:19:24 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost, but now am found; was blind but now I see")
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We Want Yellow!


Donate Today     Monthly if Possible

49 posted on 08/11/2011 11:31:05 AM PDT by TheOldLady (FReepmail me to get ON or OFF the ZOT LIGHTNING ping list.)
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To: GraceG
Times like this I am glad I live in a predominately Mormon neighborhood a block away from a Mormon Mega Church.

No where near the amount of foreclosures in my neighborhood than there are in the surrounding neighborhood.

Lot chose the well watered plain...

50 posted on 08/11/2011 12:20:15 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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