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Meet the exorcist schoolgirls who spend their time casting out DEMONS around the world (Bob Larson)
Daily Mail ^ | 11th August 2011 | Jeff Maysh

Posted on 08/12/2011 12:23:37 PM PDT by markomalley

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To: Quix
ANSWER MY QUESTION!
51 posted on 08/12/2011 9:16:06 PM PDT by guitarplayer1953 (Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to GOD! Thomas Jefferson)
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To: guitarplayer1953
To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits;

1 Cor 12:10 (KJV)

I don't much like these discussions, but I happened to see your comment (#49) and noticed that you unfortunately picked discernment as a gift not included in the list in 1 Cor. As can be seen from the above quote, it is indeed included.

52 posted on 08/12/2011 9:21:58 PM PDT by Rocky (REPEAL IT!)
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To: Rocky
TOP QUESTION WHO ARE YOU TO SAY WHAT GIFTS GOD HAS GIVEN?
53 posted on 08/12/2011 9:30:03 PM PDT by guitarplayer1953 (Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to GOD! Thomas Jefferson)
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To: guitarplayer1953

This is asked of Quix. sorry about that rocky


54 posted on 08/12/2011 9:32:35 PM PDT by guitarplayer1953 (Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to GOD! Thomas Jefferson)
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To: guitarplayer1953

Exactly why I don’t like these threads. Sorry I got involved. I was just trying to point out your oversight.

Go on about your hate fight without me.


55 posted on 08/12/2011 9:32:47 PM PDT by Rocky (REPEAL IT!)
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To: guitarplayer1953; TaraP

Where did I declare that XYZ person had this or that gift and WUV person did not have that gift?

In terms of my own giftings, I’m learning to not even acknowledge the truth about such things on FR.

I was blessed with a very anointed fellow from OKLAHOMA this week . . . way above average on humility as well as anointing and giftings in a list of ways. I got to spend probably 9 or more hours with him Thursday.

God has confirmed my walk with Him in a list of ways and again recently. His confirmation is sufficient.

Others, if they are determined to get wound up about such . . . can go . . . chase a duck, as mother used to say.


56 posted on 08/12/2011 9:37:19 PM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Rocky

Thanks.

It’s my experience on such threads that for many folks,

denominational dogma, propaganda, heresies, rigid biases . . . idolized hogwash

takes precedence over Scripture fairly routinely.

Sadly.


57 posted on 08/12/2011 9:38:05 PM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Rocky

Who posted the hate first? Was it not Quix? I have asked him who is he to say what gifts God has given to His people? Holing someone accountable is not hate.


58 posted on 08/12/2011 9:38:58 PM PDT by guitarplayer1953 (Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to GOD! Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Quix
Quix you started your rant in large letters about mental health and deliverance stating that no one can discern between the two and I asked you how do you know this? How do you know that God is not raising up young people for deliverance ministry in the end times? Samuel was just a child when he became a prophet. A lot of times you come out with a shotgun and a responce list firing away at everyone on that list.
59 posted on 08/12/2011 9:44:56 PM PDT by guitarplayer1953 (Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to GOD! Thomas Jefferson)
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To: guitarplayer1953

Accusing me of hate at this point is off the wall.

I have to work at it, usually, to hate what God hates.

Hate is not attractive to me.

I reserve it for such creatures as satan, Shrillery, OThugh—and not so much the latter two but what they do, believe, stand for and their treason.


60 posted on 08/12/2011 9:46:26 PM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: guitarplayer1953

1. It boggles my mind that you are accusing me of such.

2. Though I have not done so on this thread, it is Biblical to exercise gifted discernment in such matters.

3. I don’t find your inaccurate and impatient hostility Biblical, Kind or Chrisitan.


61 posted on 08/12/2011 9:47:50 PM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Quix
To: OpusatFR; Alamo-Girl; Amityschild; AngieGal; AnimalLover; Ann de IL; aposiopetic; aragorn; auggy; .. There is enough suffering from mental illness, especially untreated mental illness caused by biological problems without some ridiculous statement that anyone can tell who is demon possessed and who is sick. That nasty bit of false piety and spiritual abuse had ended or so I thought.

FROM YOU IN YOUR OPENING RANT. AND MY QUESTION IS HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT GOSD HAS NOT GIVEN THESE PEOPLE THE GIFT OF DECERNMENT WHEN IT COMES TO DEMONS?

62 posted on 08/12/2011 9:50:25 PM PDT by guitarplayer1953 (Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to GOD! Thomas Jefferson)
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To: guitarplayer1953; Quix

Revelation addresses this issue

And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

The fifth angel sounds his trumpet and a star falls from heaven. This star has the key to the bottomless pit. Stars sometimes have a double reference to angelic beings in the scriptures. This star is called him so it is an angel. The angel was given the key to open up the place under the earth where fallen angels are bound (2 Pe 2 1-10). Some think this angel is Satan and others think it is another angel. I think this angel still has the key when he locks Satan in the bottomless pit for a thousand years after the tribulation is over (Rev 20:1-2). Therefore, the angel is from God and is not Satan.

It is too soon for Satan to be cast out of heaven permanently since the Beast he incarnates when he is cast out of heaven comes out of the pit months after the time of this fifth trumpet. The Beast comes out of the pit just prior to the seventh trumpet just before he kills the two prophets who have completed their 1,260-day testimony (Rev 11:7).


63 posted on 08/12/2011 10:55:45 PM PDT by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: guitarplayer1953; Quix

Revelation addresses this issue

And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

The fifth angel sounds his trumpet and a star falls from heaven. This star has the key to the bottomless pit. Stars sometimes have a double reference to angelic beings in the scriptures. This star is called him so it is an angel. The angel was given the key to open up the place under the earth where fallen angels are bound (2 Pe 2 1-10). Some think this angel is Satan and others think it is another angel. I think this angel still has the key when he locks Satan in the bottomless pit for a thousand years after the tribulation is over (Rev 20:1-2). Therefore, the angel is from God and is not Satan.

It is too soon for Satan to be cast out of heaven permanently since the Beast he incarnates when he is cast out of heaven comes out of the pit months after the time of this fifth trumpet. The Beast comes out of the pit just prior to the seventh trumpet just before he kills the two prophets who have completed their 1,260-day testimony (Rev 11:7).


64 posted on 08/12/2011 10:55:54 PM PDT by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: guitarplayer1953; Quix; OpusatFR
Who are you to say what gifts God has given to some and not to others? Do you have the gift of intersession? The gift of discernment? Whoa those gifts are not listed in the Corint 1 gifts. So who's to say you have them Quix?

I believe you owe Quix an apology. He was not the one to say what you think, but he only included what OpusatFR said from post #40 and then responded to him, here is OpusatFR's post:

To: Quix

“Even the profession’s own research has shown that a LOT of laymen, grandparents, etc. are great at helping others through emotional, mental, relationship problems somewhat on a par with highly educated professionals.”

There is a vast difference between laymen “helping others through emotional, mental, relationship problems somewhat,” and a diagnosis of mental illness and its treatment.

You stated, “Experienced pastors, deacons, elders and even laymen and women did quite well at discerning the difference between demon possession/oppression and mental illness”

That’s absolute balony.

At any other time, I wouldn’t bother replying to one of your posts. However, the idea that one can determine demon possession from mental illness simply from “discernment” by a layman needs to be trashed.

There is enough suffering from mental illness, especially untreated mental illness caused by biological problems without some ridiculous statement that anyone can tell who is demon possessed and who is sick.

That nasty bit of false piety and spiritual abuse had ended or so I thought.

40 posted on Friday, August 12, 2011 9:19:05 PM by OpusatFR

65 posted on 08/12/2011 11:04:20 PM PDT by boatbums ( God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums
Then an apology is in order I had not been reading any banter and then saw my name in the post to list and thought that it was an original comment. I apologize for jumping to that conclusion it was a mistake and I know I have offended Quix and ask for his forgiveness.
66 posted on 08/12/2011 11:30:22 PM PDT by guitarplayer1953 (Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to GOD! Thomas Jefferson)
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To: guitarplayer1953; Quix
I'm sorry, but I got to jump in here.

Are you really accusing Quix, of all people, of trying to limit what the Holy Spirit will and won't do in a Believer's life? Seriously?

As for the OP, I'd have to say that while it's Biblical that every Believer has authority over demons, in practice it's a whole different matter. It's not so much the fact that some have a gift over others as much as most Christians today, in America at least, aren't what you'd call "Spiritually Aware" of their surroundings.

While there may be nothing technically wrong with what these girls are doing, I think that it's incredibly foolish and dangerous to give people the wrong idea in this matter. Exorcists absolutely must be strongly rooted and grounded in their faith and while I don't doubt that these girls may believe strongly in what they're doing, I have a hard time believing that they have developed a strong Gift of Discernment yet.

67 posted on 08/12/2011 11:39:19 PM PDT by Avalon Hussar
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To: guitarplayer1953; OpusatFR

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

HELLO????!!!!

THOSE WERE NOT MY WORDS.

Those were words of OpusatFr that I was protesting her about.

Sheesh!

Your reading comprehension used to be better than this.

OPUS WAS PUTTING WORDS IN MY FINGERS I DID NOT COME CLOSE TO SAYING!

SHEESH.


68 posted on 08/12/2011 11:39:28 PM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: boatbums

THANKS TONS FOR SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT.

My effort did not make it through the review process for some mysterious reason.

Sigh.

Much appreciated.


69 posted on 08/12/2011 11:39:46 PM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Quix
As I stated to the other person who point that out that it was not your words and I owed you an apology and that is true. Quix I jumped to conclusions and did not read the entire post I was wrong and I have said several hurting words out of my pride and can only ask that you forgive me.
70 posted on 08/12/2011 11:54:21 PM PDT by guitarplayer1953 (Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to GOD! Thomas Jefferson)
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To: markomalley

First and foremost I really, really wonder if this Bob Larson’s claims to have a stable of 100 teams of his demon-busters glamorously traveling the globe driving out evil is in fact true or did he just plagiarize a script from Joss Whedon and scare up a few girls to pose for pictures?

I’d need to see some evidence; ledgers, employee records, receipts, plane tickets, photos, etc.


71 posted on 08/13/2011 12:19:10 AM PDT by sinanju
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To: guitarplayer1953

I forgive you.

No trouble at all forgiving you.

I repent for my impatience with such stuff.

It’s currently a bit hard for me to discern when I should be fierce with such stuff and when I should be patient with it.


72 posted on 08/13/2011 4:09:05 AM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Avalon Hussar; boatbums; Alamo-Girl; Amityschild; AngieGal; AnimalLover; Ann de IL; aposiopetic; ...

Thanks for your kind words.

RE the OP . . .

It was Bruce Larson who wrote LIVING ON THE GROWING EDGE.

Bob Larson has written extensively on spiritual warfare and deliverance

as has . . . the author of

BONDAGE BREAKER.

Bob’s books are listed here:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=BOB+LARSON

I don’t recall reading all of any of them. I do have a faint memory that what I have read seemed pretty kosher, to me.

I think I particularly liked his well done treatments of satan’s use of rock music etc. I think he’s largely accurate. I do’nt know that I’d be as strictly 100% convinced as to where he’d draw the line on that style of music.

I’m not impressed even with “Christian” rock. However, I don’t know that I’d say 100% of all of what’s classified as that is inherently evil, regardless.

IIRC, Bob Larson may not be that generous toward the genre.

I do believe, from what I faintly recall of his style and convictions . . . that he would NOT turn loose anyone—particularly teens etc. against the enemy without insisting on extensive study, training, etc. And, the OP itself asserts that the individuals involved are participating in serious BIBLICAL study of the issues and factors involved and how to go about it.

LET US NO DIMINISH NOR HINIDER THE POWER OF THE WORD OF GOD AND HOLY SPIRIT’S USE OF IT.

AS we have seen with the Albuquerque group’s distribution of PROCLAIMER MP3 wind-up players to tribal groups with nothing but Scripture on them . . . when given to the “man of peace” in the village and with an agreement of commitment to have 30 min of listening and 30 min of discussion per week . . .

Holy Spirit is well able to establish churches—BIBLICALLY OPERATING, ACTS 2, I COR 12-14 CHURCHES with nothing more.

Scripture and Holy Spirit ARE SUFFICIENT to any situation.

Seminaries/cemetaries are NOT REQUIRED for Holy Spirit and Scripture to be exceedingly powerful against satan. Many are actually on satan’s side.

Yes there are hazards. There are, no doubt, mistakes. Schooling does not exactly prevent such. Schooling can actually increase such.

I think we are also wise to consider Paul’s exhortation to Timothy to avoid allowing folks to dispise his youth.

As my OKLAHOMA Bro noted this week . . . his 4/5 year old daughter has been shocking them with her spiritual wisdom and declarations.

GOD IS doing a new thing with many youth in our era. He WILL USE HIS ‘foolishness’ to confound the wise more and more.

Prissy attitudes, prissy practiices, prissy perspectives, prissy pontifications will eventually, in many cases, find to their shock and dismay that they have ended up on the opposite side of the line from God Almighty. I pray they don’t find out too late.

God is HOLY. He is NOT prissy.


Great to have your perspective in the fray, Bro.


73 posted on 08/13/2011 4:31:12 AM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: sinanju

I don’t believe Bob Larson is the type of person to lie about such things.

It’s not that difficult to end up with a hundred teams scattered over the globe when one has an international ministry with books, seminars etc.

It would not have taken much trouble to have had 12 teams in Taipei, alone. I wonder how many he does have there.

These are Biblical principles, folks. They don’t really NEED Bob Larson to do the BIBLICAL thing in such matters.

Nevertheless, he HAS learned a lot from experience and evidently has a program teaching what he’s learned to earnest Christians willing to learn and apply the lessons from experience. More power to them.

All the cheeky self-righteous rock-throwing on this thread about such groups strikes me as from the pit.

Gamaliel’s exhortation seems wiser, to me.


74 posted on 08/13/2011 4:34:59 AM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Quix

NEIL T ANDERSON

is the author of BONDAGE BREAKER and a lot of other good spiritual warfare books. I’m more familiar with him. His stuff is very good.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=BONDAGE+BREAKER

Derek Prince is probably the ‘Dean’ of such stuff in our era. He’s now graduated from this life. His books are listed here:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=BOB+LARSON#/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=derek+prince&rh=n%3A283155%2Ck%3Aderek+prince

In many respects, the BIBLICAL EXHORTATION:

RESIST THE ENEMY AND HE WILL FLEE FROM YOU

is sufficient in many situations.

Nevertheless, in practical terms, many people need coaching, practice and support in doing so.

Much has been made about whether someone is “possessed” or “oppressed.”

As Dr Rob Robley used to point out in San Diego . . . the prayers are essentially the same, REGARDLESS.

Yeah, with some cases involving extensive demonization over many years, prayer and fasting are in order and a team approach is wise. Nevertheless, the spiritual warfare and prayers are essentially the same.

It’s just that big enemy forces can require extra Spiritual clout on God’s side to carry the day—particularly in a timely manner. In some cases, it can be hours and even days of a process.

It’s routine for full deliverance to be a many months process as folks become free in layers and learn to hold their cleansed state against the enemy in layers of a process.

It appears to be the case that where some folks are fully delivered quickly, some may have a hard time standing and staying free with confident effectiveness.


75 posted on 08/13/2011 4:45:55 AM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Quix

“Are you really sure you want to start tyhis game up again?”

You have no idea.

Your ideas on mental health are reckless and irresponsible and I hope that those who are reading this and are questioning their mental status do have the grace given to them to go to a mental health professional, preferrably a psychiatrist with a family practice or internal medicine background to be diagnosed and treated.


76 posted on 08/13/2011 5:21:52 AM PDT by OpusatFR
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To: OpusatFR; Quix
The only counseling worth anything is Christian counseling.
77 posted on 08/13/2011 5:32:54 AM PDT by marbren (I do not know but Thank God God knows)
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To: OpusatFR

Eternity will reveal

which of us has more

rescued, redeemed, made whole, restored, healed

lives, psyche’s, emotions, relationships, Christian walks

as a result of our respective perspectives on mental health, unhealth as well as on Christian living.

I’m blessed by how God has used me the last 30+ years in such regards.

I’m not sure why so many supervisors sent me their most difficult cases. I only know it happened on 2 continents and that God enabled amazing results.

I suppose you would also castigate Thomas Szaaz?

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_11?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=thomas+szaz&sprefix=thomas+szaz&rh=n%3A283155%2Ck%3Athomas+szaz&ajr=0

The Myth of Mental Illness: Foundations of a Theory of Personal Conduct (Revised Edition) by Thomas S. Szasz

Defining disease: the gold standard of disease versus the fiat standard of diagnosis.: An article from: Independent Review


He has a lot of good research to back up his very professional assertions.

I don’t know that I’d go as far as he goes. Yet he makes many very good, accurate, valid points.

I find your assumptions very flawed in this subject area.


You seem to be trying to make my perspective out to be absurd.

Thankfully, I and many hundreds of clients know better. And Thousands of students know better. Certainly God knows better.


78 posted on 08/13/2011 5:43:39 AM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: marbren

In most key respects, I much agree with you.

When one considers eternal issues, I near totally agree with you.


79 posted on 08/13/2011 5:44:48 AM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Quix
In most key respects, I much agree with you. When one considers eternal issues, I near totally agree with you.

Very true but even if medication is needed per a doctor or psychiatrist I would first seek council from a Christian source. Especially with mind altering drugs.

I just found this in the worship service prayer I am editing for tomorrow for my Pastor and wanted to post it on FR.

Our spiritual senses are blinded and clouded over by a huge amount of noise and dirt. One of the greatest sources for this noise and dirt arises from the judgments of our minds. Heavenly Father Enable us to realize that it is not by the judgments of our minds that we become overcomers:

80 posted on 08/13/2011 5:59:27 AM PDT by marbren (I do not know but Thank God God knows)
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To: Quix

“I find your assumptions very flawed in this subject area.”

You assume too much; much too much.

“You seem to be trying to make my perspective out to be absurd.”

Not at all. I find your statements reckless.


81 posted on 08/13/2011 6:14:12 AM PDT by OpusatFR
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To: OpusatFR; Quix

Here is what I mean by Christian counseling. Lets say I had an issue like grief over death of a loved one and needed help. Based on my discernment I would seek out Quix’s help not OpusatFR’s help.


82 posted on 08/13/2011 6:54:46 AM PDT by marbren (I do not know but Thank God God knows)
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To: marbren; Quix

This isn’t about counseling.

This is about the claim ““Experienced pastors, deacons, elders and even laymen and women did quite well at discerning the difference between demon possession/oppression and mental illness”

It is completely and utterly irresponsible for any clinician to claim that a layman can diagnose the difference between mental illness and possession.

~Utterly and completely reckless and irresponsible!


83 posted on 08/13/2011 9:25:25 AM PDT by OpusatFR
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To: marbren

INDEED. VERY WELL PUT.

THX.


84 posted on 08/13/2011 10:06:22 AM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: OpusatFR

Brash at time, I’ll own.

Reckless . . . Nope.

YET, In many cases, even reckless would be better than the very starchy kosher yet utterly destructive treatment many hurting people get from the mental health profession.

If you’ve never read any of Thomas Zsaz, he could be quite eye-opening. I bristled at him, at first. I had to eventually realize, he was spot-on accurate in a list of ways.

Few professions like the truth about themselves.

I wouldn’t be surprised if eternity will show that Bob Larson’s groups will have delivered many thousands more individuals from emotional, psychological and spiritual bondage and into a fuller life in Christ than all the shrinks of all types put together.

And essentially, for free. vs very high prices on the other side.


85 posted on 08/13/2011 10:11:35 AM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: marbren; OpusatFR

The sad fact is that when one subtracts out placebo effect etc. virtually all the anti-psychotics and anti-depressants—particularly the latter . . .

are simply NOT EFFECTIVE for most people.

And, they have horrendous side effects that are often somewhat subtle at first.

I used to support things like the common anti-depressants where depression was chronic and long standing.

I don’t any more. There’s too much research to the contrary. Much is available on the web about such.

Sometimes for a period of a few weeks or months, something like that may be useful in a particular individual’s life in order to give them the greater capacity to overcome the . . . overlay in their stinking thinking that the depression constitutes . . . such that they can then begin to alter habits of thinking and more TAKE EACH THOUGHT CAPTIVE.

RESEARCH HAS DEMONSTRATED THAT COGNITIVE BEHAVIORAL THERAPY IS SIGNIFICANTLY SUPERIOR to meds for DEPRESSION—EVEN CHRONIC LONG STANDING DEPRESSION.

1. It is longer lasting in effectiveness.
2. There’s no destructive side-effects.
3. It’s healthier and empowering for the individual in terms of their self respect, self-confidence etc.
4. It’s more freeing in terms of the robust nature of its effectiveness.


86 posted on 08/13/2011 10:17:58 AM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: marbren

Thanks for your kind words.


87 posted on 08/13/2011 10:19:17 AM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: OpusatFR

Not at all.

The RESEARCH (35+ or so years ago) WAS QUITE CONCLUSIVE.

It’s simply a fact.

You’re simply uninformed and wrong on that score.

And, when it was a serious mental health issue vs a demonic issue, ALL the better pastors et al referred to a mental health professional quite responsibly.


88 posted on 08/13/2011 10:22:01 AM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Quix

“YET, In many cases, even reckless would be better than the very starchy kosher yet utterly destructive treatment many hurting people get from the mental health profession.”

Stop deflecting.

Your statement is the issue, not Dr. Zsaz nor your wholesale attack on clinicians. I have no idea what “starchy kosher” treatment is other than another of your obfuscations, or an attack on the medical treatment of the mentally ill.

“““Experienced pastors, deacons, elders and even laymen and women did quite well at discerning the difference between demon possession/oppression and mental illness”

Reckless. I wouldn’t expect a layman to distinguish between
hebephrenic schizophrenia and possession or any of the many biologically induced mental disorders.

~And neither should YOU. ~And certainly, neither should a gaggle of teenage girls who resemble nothing more than a modern day Salem witch hunt.

I’m done with this thread.


89 posted on 08/13/2011 10:32:42 AM PDT by OpusatFR
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To: OpusatFR; marbren; metmom

For a year or two, I was part of a San Diego house based church headed by a former Methodist MD and his wife who’d been brought into ‘Charismania’/Pentecostalism.

Mental health professionals and pastors referred some of their most hopeless folks to the church from all over Southern California. A surprising number of such folks were made whole and became overcoming healthy Chrisitans in good relationships with their loved ones and holding down productive jobs.

Derek Prince had taught at the church for a period of days if not weeks, IIRC.

Much of the operation involved deliverance prayers.

But that was not all. Folks were divided up into ‘spiritual families’ of 3-4 households each. And each week, one household was on the ‘hot seat’ in terms of processing with prayer and Biblical counsel whatever had gone on with those household members the weeks since their last being the focus.

People were assigned homework and/or new ways of relating, thinking, speaking and expected to earnestly work at such. They did.

Given that the approaches were Biblical and Holy Spirit really WAS involved, people got dramatically better. In many cases, the mental health profession had UTTERLY FAILED such individuals for 10-20 years or more.

Yes, the group eventually became ingrown and fell off the cliff. But for a period of years, they did many people tremendous good—with lay persons as the leaders.


90 posted on 08/13/2011 10:48:05 AM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: OpusatFR

I think you are minimizing if not wholesale laying aside the

capacity and willingness of Holy Spirit to bless

WHOSOEVER WILL

with sharp anointed discernment, wisdom and knowledge in such matters.

I’ve seen HIM do it repeatedly.

I’ve seen laymen give a mental health assessment slicing between the ‘bone and the marrow’ much more accurately than most of my famous supervisors could have done—and usually in a lot less time.


91 posted on 08/13/2011 10:50:32 AM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: All

The first thing a competent psychiatrist will do, when a patient presents, is order a thorough physical examination to rule out the significant number of diseases which have psychiatric symptoms.

Nowhere do I see that recommended by any of the exorcism group on this thread. For that reason alone, this thread is, in my nursing opinion, dangerous. Anyone who relies on adolescent girls for diagnosis and treatment is potentially in grave danger. Even in the rare case of demonic oppression or possession (much rarer) adolescent girls, whatever their spiritual gifts, are not qualified to diagnose or treat anyone.

Laymen are also not qualified, no matter how many tongues they speak in. Self-described internet therapists are despicable.


92 posted on 08/13/2011 12:27:40 PM PDT by Judith Anne ( Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of our death.)
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To: TheDingoAteMyBaby

That’s a very fascinating article.

It is pretty much where Pentecostal Christianity has gone to these days. I’ve encountered that kind of thinking more times that I care to recall.

Thanks for the link.


93 posted on 08/13/2011 1:35:31 PM PDT by metmom (Be the kind of woman that when you wake in the morning, the devil says, "Oh crap, she's UP !!")
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To: Judith Anne

Exorcists for hire by the hour raises more than a few red flags.

Then there’s his Demon Test® for only $5.

This stinks of con.


94 posted on 08/13/2011 1:37:56 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: markomalley

Very foolish ...


95 posted on 08/13/2011 1:38:49 PM PDT by Scythian
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To: Quix
And I too have a bad habit of reading something and not reading it all and if the beginning of the reading gets to me or should i say if i let it get to me and come out guns blazing and shooting every one in sight and then let the Lord sort them out.
96 posted on 08/13/2011 4:45:04 PM PDT by guitarplayer1953 (Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to GOD! Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Quix

“I’ve seen laymen give a mental health assessment...”

You’ve allowed laymen to assess and diagnose?

It that what you are stating on this thread?

You have allowed laymen to do this with your knowledge?

I don’t mean medical students in Q&A or rounds.

Are you telling us that YOU allowed a LAYMAN to ASSESS and DIAGNOSE?


97 posted on 08/13/2011 4:50:20 PM PDT by OpusatFR
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To: OpusatFR; Alamo-Girl; Amityschild; AngieGal; AnimalLover; Ann de IL; aposiopetic; aragorn; auggy; ..

??HELLO ???

Getting one’s exercise primarily from jumping to conclusions may be faithfully copying my mother’s chronic habit . . . however, I don’t recommend it.

1. We are NOT talking about DIFFERENTIAL DIAGNOSIS here! Sheesh!

2. We are talking, essentially, about a very generalized assessment/discernment about

A) Is this individual suffering from demonic influence beyond their personal ability to deal with it? It doesn’t matter whether it’s possession or oppression.

B) Is this individual also suffering from some essentially mental illness apart from whatever may or may not be going on vis a vis demonic influence?

C) Is this individual suffering essentially or mostly from a mental illness having more or less nothing to do with demonic influences?


That’s not very sophisticated in terms of DIFFERENTIAL DIAGNOSIS. Up thread you accused me of deflecting. Are all your mirrors shattered?

4. This was before I began my PhD program, toots. I had NO supervisory control or authority over any aspect of the church groups or functioning. I didn’t “LET” anything happen. Sheesh!

5. Does it take an elevator to get off your high horse?


98 posted on 08/13/2011 6:01:38 PM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: guitarplayer1953

I’ve been human in such a way, as well—more times than I’d care to recall.

I think it’s an epidemic FR infection . . . or a net wide infection.

And, given the givens, I’ve noticed an INCREASING personal inclination to grab the jawbone of a donkey and let The Lord sort em out.

I Gotta insure that’s THE LORD’S HATRED OF EVIL vs my own self-righteous pique, however.

I pretend I’m getting better at that, by His Grace.

Maybe so.


99 posted on 08/13/2011 6:04:40 PM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: OpusatFR

The onset/post-menstruation thing can make young girls say and do some bat-crazy things. Salem, Mass. in 1697 comes to mind.


100 posted on 08/13/2011 8:25:42 PM PDT by jmacusa (Political correctness is cultural Marxism. I'm not a Marxist.)
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