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Four Resurrections -- One Judgment (Dispensational Caucus)
The Omega Letter ^ | August 17, 2011 | Jack Kinsella

Posted on 08/17/2011 5:15:20 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta

During the thousand year Millennial Reign, the earth will be populated by ordinary, living, breathing humans, some of whom survived the Tribulation Period, together with those who will be born (in the usual manner) during the Kingdom Period.

The human lifespan will return to what it was in the days of Adam, but they will be mortal humans in the sense that, even with Satan bound, men will still die, and sin will still exist;

"There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed."

Further proving that the inhabitants of the Kingdom Period are ordinary humans; they will need food, and shelter, and to get it, they will have to work for a living, even as they enjoy an extended lifespan:

"And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them. They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them." (Isaiah 65:21-22)

Coinhabiting the earth with mortal humans, Scripture tells us, are the immortal resurrected dead.

"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection." (Revelation 20:4-5)

Notice two key points John makes in this passage.

First, those being addressed are undeniably those who came out of the Tribulation. And second, John says that, AFTER the Tribulation, (in which they were beheaded) they both live AND reign with Christ for the full thousand years.

This passage is often used as a proof text to argue in favor of a post-Tribulation Rapture. After all, they are clearly those who endured the Tribulation. And if it is the 'first' resurrection, then it must take place concurrent with the Rapture.

That seems to make sense, until you look at the passage again. Those referenced there are ONLY those who came out of the Great Tribulation.

Church Age believers and the Old Testament saints are not mentioned, since they have already received their resurrection bodies. (Matthew 19:28, Daniel 12, Job 19:25)

"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years." (Revelation 20:6)

Revelation 20:4-6 mentions a “first resurrection” and identifies those involved as “blessed and holy.” The second death (the lake of fire, Revelation 20:14) has no power over these individuals.

But how does one have two 'first' resurrections; the first at a pre-Trib Rapture, and the second at the end of the Tribulation Period?

Actually, the Bible identifies the 'first resurrection' as occurring in four stages, not two.

The first resurrection, in general, is the raising of all believers from all ages.

It corresponds with Jesus’ teaching of the “resurrection of the just” (Luke 14:14) and the “resurrection of life” (John 5:29).

And it clearly takes place in various stages; the first was Jesus Christ Himself two thousand years ago.

He was the 'Firstfruits' (1 Corinthians 15:20) Who prepared the way of salvation for those who Trust Him during the Church Age.

The second stage involved the resurrection of the saints of Jerusalem;

"And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after His resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many." (Matthew 27:52-53).

Stage three is the resurrection of the "dead in Christ" followed by the Rapture of "we which are alive and remain" at the Lord's return for His Church at the conclusion of the Church Age. (1st Thessalonians 4:17)

And finally, the resurrection of the martyrs at the conclusion of the final seven years of the Age of the Law. (Revelation 20:4, Daniel 9:24)

All these groups are part of the 'first resurrection' upon whom the 'second death' (in the lake of fire) will have 'no power'.

There is no inconsistency between resurrection of the saints at the conclusion of the Church Age, followed by a separate resurrection of the martyrs at the conclusion of the Tribulation, anymore than there is an inconsistency between the Resurrection of Christ followed by the separate resurrection of the O. T. saints in Jerusalem.

From the Resurrection of Jesus to the resurrection of the Tribulation martyrs and O.T. saints (Daniel 12:13); it is all part of the general 'first' resurrection of the dead in four stages, each of which is clearly separated according to Scripture to a specific purpose in the overall Plan of God.

The second resurrection, then, is the raising of all unbelievers; the second resurrection is connected to the second death. It corresponds with Jesus’ teaching of the “resurrection of damnation” (John 5:29).

The event which divides the first and second resurrections is the millennial kingdom.

The last of the righteous are raised to reign “with Christ a thousand years” (Revelation 20:4), but the “rest of the dead [that is, the wicked] lived not again until the thousand years were finished.” (Revelation 20:5).

As part of understanding Scripture's outline of the overall Plan of God, consider the various epochs of human history from the perspective of the angels who did NOT join the rebellion, and who, by nature, have no understanding of what sin really is or how it really works.

"Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; WHICH THINGS THE ANGELS DESIRE TO LOOK INTO." (1st Peter 1:12)

We are a mystery to the angels. The Bible says they are charged with ministering to us, but that one day, they will be judged BY us. (1st Corinthians 6:3)

"Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with SO GREAT A CLOUD OF WITNESSES, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us," (Hebrews 12:1)

Isaiah 14 introduces us to the first outbreak of sin in the universe.

"For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High."

For his sin of arrogance, God pronounced judgement on Lucifer, the most honored of His angels, and those rebellious angels who followed him;

"Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit." (Isaiah 14:12-15)

The existence of humanity is often described by theologians as the 'trial of Satan'.

The courtroom is Planet Earth, with Jesus as the Righteous Judge, the angels as witnesses, and with sinful mankind serving as evidence. It is more than just the trial of Satan. Sin itself is on trial.

Lucifer, called in Scripture, "the anointed cherub that covereth" was highly favored of God; "and I have set thee so" (Ezekiel 28:14) Isaiah 14:14 defines that first sin as, "I will" -- the sin of pride.

The trial is to prove what 'one little sin' can do -- the classic 'slippery slope' scenario.

The trial opens with Exhibit 1 -- Adam and Eve. They are placed in a perfect environment and given only one command -- to avoid the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge. They fail -- and man inherits a sin nature.

Exhibit 2 --Man is allowed free reign until the Flood -- the so-called "Age of Conscience". Without Divine interaction or instruction, society becomes so sinful and corrupt that God saves Noah and his family alive and destroys the rest in the Flood.

Exhibit 3 - During the Age of the Patriarchs, God spoke directly to chosen individuals; Abraham, Noah, Lot, etc. Each, even having spoken directly with God, commit some heinous sin.

Having gone from one commandment (the Age of Innocence) to no commandments at all (the Age of Conscience) to direct confrontation,(the Age of the Patriarchs) God progresses to giving mankind the Ten Commandments (the Age of the Law).

Not one person ever kept all ten of them throughout his lifetime, no matter what the circumstances. (David, for example, broke all ten of them.)

Exhibit 4 -- The Age of the Law, during which time the Commandments of God became so corrupted and perverted that it became necessary to scrap the whole system and replace it with the Age of Grace.

To accomplish that God Himself stepped out of space and time, took on the form of sinful man, kept the Law on our behalf, and paid the price for our sin. (Death)

In so doing, He made a way for all mankind to be saved by faith through grace.

But most of mankind rejects even the free offer of grace, preferring a life of unregenerate sin.

That constitutes Exhibit 5 -- and it must make the angelic witnesses gasp in disbelief.

From the perspective of the angelic witness, then, 'one little sin' has thus far brought mankind to the point it is today. So far, God has given sin every opportunity to prove itself worthy of its wages.

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23)

Exhibit 6 -- The Age of Grace concludes at the Rapture. The Rapture removes the restraining influence of the Holy Spirit, giving Satan (and sin) free reign for seven years. And the end result is the near-destruction of all human life.

Jesus then returns at the 2nd Coming, binds Satan for a thousand years, and reigns Personally from Jerusalem.

Mortal humanity has no excuse, He is right there, in Person, for all to see.

Satan's influence is restrained, lifespans are extended, there are no more wars, famine or poverty, and humankind is returned to the Eden-like state from which it began.

With God Himself on the Throne of human government, ruling with a rod of iron for a thousand years, Satan is loosed for 'a little season'.

"And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea."

The mortal humans who have lived in a state of God-given idyllic bliss for a thousand years, under the influence of Satan, raise an army to bring against the King of Kings and Lord of Lords Himself. Exhibit 7.

Sin is judged according to its works.

"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. And I saw a great white throne, and Him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them."

This is the SECOND resurrection. Unlike the first resurrection, it has only one phase.

"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."

"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." (Revelation 20:10-12,14)

In the overall Plan of God, as outlined in Scripture, everything has a purpose. There are no omissions, no errors, and no inconsistencies.

From Genesis to Revelation, a central theme of Scripture is that sin is the cause of death, and will ultimately be eradicated from existence, together with all those who "received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved." (2nd Thessalonians 2:12)

Praise the Lord for that OTHER central theme of Scripture.

"For God so loved the world, that He gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)


TOPICS: General Discusssion
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1 posted on 08/17/2011 5:15:26 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: HushTX; righttackle44; patriot preacher; FrdmLvr; caww; Buddygirl; bareford101; fishtank; ...

Ping!


2 posted on 08/17/2011 5:18:16 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: GiovannaNicoletta; Quix

Great article! Thanks for posting it GN. I really like the way he laid it out.


3 posted on 08/17/2011 6:18:15 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
And when the thousand years are expired,... Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth,.... Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea."

Hummm....according to this it looks like 'the final war' is AFTER the thousand years. But it is my understanding Christ returns to earth to the mount of olives in the midst of that war...THEN the thousand years follows this.

It does seem there are two wars.....one where Russia and it's hoards are destroyed....and then perhaps this written of here.

Been awhile since I've looked or discussed these passages. Might be I'm just forgetting! Ha!

4 posted on 08/17/2011 6:28:28 PM PDT by caww
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

Great article.

Thanks.


5 posted on 08/17/2011 6:52:35 PM PDT by metmom (Be the kind of woman that when you wake in the morning, the devil says, "Oh crap, she's UP !!")
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To: caww

The way I understand Scripture, first it will be the Psalm 83 war, involving the countries immediately surrounding Israel. The outcome of this war will be determined by Israel’s great and mighty army, the IDF I reckon. Then, when Israel is living in peace, it will be the Eze. 38 war, involving nations not immediately surrounding Israel and won by divine intervention. Both wars will be followed by the Tribulation, at the end of which there will be a number of battles all included in the “Day of Almighty God” war. Some of these battles will take place at Edom, Armageddon and Jerusalem. It is then that Jesus comes and defeats Anti Christ and his troops. The Millenium follows and, after that, the final rebellion. So that’s at least 4 wars!


6 posted on 08/17/2011 7:25:29 PM PDT by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

Great post! This Sunday I am teaching from Rev. 20 so I will certainly use this post in preparing for Sunday school. I have a question, though. I’ve never been quite sure about when the resurrection of the Old Testament saints will take place. This article seems to place it at the time of the crucifixion, in Jerusalem. Scripture says that many saints were resurrected then, but does that mean ALL OT saints? If not, when are they resurrected? Thanks


7 posted on 08/17/2011 7:28:54 PM PDT by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)
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To: CynicalBear; GiovannaNicoletta

Thanks for the ping.

WIll try and get to it amidst an extremely full plate this week.


8 posted on 08/17/2011 7:46:51 PM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Former Fetus
I see....I knew there were several but not exactly in what order nor the time between them. I know the Lord Himself destroys Russia, who at one point will be attacking Israel with other M.E. countries as allies...and they will turn on each other. Also Damascus at sometime will also be destroyed....maybe in Psalm 83?

I have not done a study of it as every time I begin I get otherwise occupied. I do think quite possible Jesus comes in the clouds before any of these actually take place...but even then not sure we won't see some of it.

Syria's behind a rock and hard place right now...so interesting to see how that's going to play out.

9 posted on 08/17/2011 8:47:13 PM PDT by caww
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
a central theme of Scripture is that sin is the cause of death, and will ultimately be eradicated from existence, together with all those who "received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved." (2nd Thessalonians 2:12)

This "eradicated from existence" part, I do not agree with because it sounds like the Jehovah Witnesses' doctrine of annihilation. When God creates the new heavens and new earth wherein righteousness dwells after the millennial rule, there will no longer be sin and death, crying or pain because all has been made new. But those that have gone to hell along with the devil and his angels, the anti-christ and the false prophet, will suffer for eternity, there is no eventual ceasing to exist. To say it that way almost sounds like the point of reincarnation for the Hindus and Buddhists. Their eventual prize called nirvana, is "becoming one with the universe", ceasing to exist and no longer having any consciousness of individuality. Perhaps this article meant something other than "eradicated from existence"? They will still exist, just not in any way that can ever again effect the new life with God.

10 posted on 08/17/2011 9:01:07 PM PDT by boatbums ( God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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Comment #11 Removed by Moderator

To: GiovannaNicoletta
Thanks GiovannaNicoletta, I am confused about OT saint resurrection timing. Also, when do saints in the millennium get their glorified bodies? Does everyone born in the millennium rebel when Satan is released?
12 posted on 08/18/2011 8:46:28 AM PDT by marbren (I do not know but, Thank God, God knows)
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To: caww

Have you read Isralestine by Bill Salus? You can get it dirt cheap from eBay and it is extremely interesting.


13 posted on 08/18/2011 10:02:33 AM PDT by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)
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To: marbren; GiovannaNicoletta

I read it again slowly, The thesis of the OP, IMHO, is that those born during the millennium do not have a chance. They will all rebel at the end. I do not know but, Thank God, God knows.


14 posted on 08/18/2011 11:04:32 AM PDT by marbren (I do not know but, Thank God, God knows)
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To: marbren

The OP might even say if you survive the tribulation you end up with 1000 years of bliss then the Lake of Fire awaits? I do not know but, Thank God, God knows.


15 posted on 08/18/2011 11:08:57 AM PDT by marbren (I do not know but, Thank God, God knows)
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To: Former Fetus
Scripture says that many saints were resurrected then, but does that mean ALL OT saints? If not, when are they resurrected? Thanks

It appears, from the passage in Matthew, that it was a certain group of saints who were raised, Mr. Kinsella says they were from Jerusalem, and went into the "holy city" and appeared to many. This event occurred as a testimony to the immortal power ascribed to Jesus Christ alone. It also served as miraculous evidence given on which faith could be built.

According to the Scripture given, the bodies of those who were saved during the Tribulation and the bodies of Old Testament saints are raised after the end of the Tribulation.

The previous resurrection of OT saints was done for a specific purpose and the rest of the OT saints will be resurrected at the same time as the Tribulation martyrs.

16 posted on 08/18/2011 2:36:05 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: boatbums
I think he is mainly talking here about the eradication of sin from the earth and the addition of those who die without knowing Christ is also referring to the fact that they will no longer be on the earth.

I don't think Jack Kinsella believes what the Jehovah Witnesses believe :). I think he was just saying that, at a point in time, both sin and those who practice it and refused Jesus' offer of salvation will no longer be on the earth.

Their souls will live forever, as we know, they just won't be here. They will be in the place God created for those who want nothing to do with Him.

17 posted on 08/18/2011 2:40:57 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: guitarplayer1953
The dead and the living are taken out at the same time.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

They may go to meet Jesus at the same time, but the dead who have been saved will be raised first.

18 posted on 08/18/2011 2:46:23 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: marbren
I tried to sort it out in post 16. Take a look and see what you think.

Scripture doesn't say when or if those who came out of the Tribulation and into the Millennial Kingdom will get glorified bodies, so we pretty much have to speculate. We know that eternity begins after Satan's last rebellion is over and Satan and those who chose to go with him are in hell, but God saw fit to leave us hanging about the details of what eternity with Him will be like.

Does everyone born in the millennium rebel when Satan is released?

No, not everyone rebels, but many will. It will be like it is now, except for the fact that the curse will be gone, the earth will be like it was before the curse was put on the earth, and we will have had a thousand years with Jesus in charge. However, there will still be sin and after a few hundred years of being detached from what the world was like before Jesus' Kingdom, people who are born a few generations after that time will have no grasp of how things were then.

People will still have to accept Christ as Savior during the Millennial Reign to have eternal life. That won't change. But, as the thousand years go on, there will be people who, because they will still be born with their sin nature, will come to greatly resent being ruled by Jesus Christ and will be ripe for the picking by Satan.

So not everyone will rebel, but enough will for Satan to carry out one last futile campaign against Christ.

19 posted on 08/18/2011 2:55:56 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: marbren
No, they will all have a chance and not everyone will turn against Christ.

But people born during that time will still have a sin nature and will have to be covered by the blood of Jesus, just like people now, to be forgiven of their sin and have eternal life.

Not everyone will turn against Christ during that time, but a lot will.

20 posted on 08/18/2011 2:58:06 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: marbren
Don't fret, sweet marbren.

Not everyone during the Millennial Reign will turn against Christ.

It will be a choice, just as it is now. But those people will have absolutely no excuse then because they have lived during a time when there was no curse on the earth, and every need man can have is provided for.

People will have to choose to rebel against Christ at that time, just like now. And not everyone will.

21 posted on 08/18/2011 3:06:29 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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Comment #22 Removed by Moderator

To: GiovannaNicoletta
According to the Scripture given, the bodies of those who were saved during the Tribulation and the bodies of Old Testament saints are raised after the end of the Tribulation

Sorry, I don't see the OT saints.

23 posted on 08/18/2011 4:38:51 PM PDT by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)
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To: guitarplayer1953

Then you deny all the Scriptures provided that prove that you are wrong?


24 posted on 08/18/2011 4:53:29 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: Former Fetus
If we look at Daniel 12:13:

“As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance.”

We see that Daniel, an OT saint, is being told that he will rest, then rise at the end of days.

When is the end of days? I guess it depends on how we are going to define "days". Because at the end of the Tribulation, man and Satan are no longer in control, and because many of the OT saints will have exalted positions in Christ's Millennial Kingdom, I guess we have to take "the end of days" as meaning the end of the rule of man.

If the OT Jewish saints are going to be ruling over both Jews and Gentiles during the thousand-year reign, as Scripture teaches, then they have to have been resurrected before then, and the only time they can get those bodies is right after the Tribulation and right before the Millennial Reign begins since they are not present on earth during the Tribulation. The Tribulation martyrs are raised to receive the bodies they will need to exist in the Kingdom, and it is at that time, "at the end of days", that the OT Jewish saints will be raised as well.

25 posted on 08/18/2011 5:01:27 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

Makes a lot of sense. Thank you, very much!


26 posted on 08/18/2011 5:47:13 PM PDT by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)
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Comment #27 Removed by Moderator

To: GiovannaNicoletta
I remember learning that the Old Testament saints (those who died before Christ came) were present in spirit with God in Heaven - they were the ones in "Paradise/Abraham's bosom" that Jesus brought to Heaven with him after his death. Their bodies, on the other hand, are "in the grave". They, as well as all NT saints who have already died, will receive glorified bodies with us at the Rapture when we rise together with them to meet the Lord in the air. We are changed "in the blink of an eye" and corruption puts on in-corruption, mortal puts on immortality.

Those who are saved during the Trib but killed for their testimony will be raised up with glorified bodies and will go into the Millenium. Those who were saved during the Tribulation and escaped death and who go into the millennium with their human bodies, will be able to stay alive by going to the Tree of Life:

Revelation 2:7 "Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God."

Revelation 22:2 "down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations."

Revelation 22:14 "“Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city."

The unbelievers who were taken out of the earth after the tribulation (not going into the Millennium), will be the ones who take part in the "second resurrection" along with all the unsaved that have ever lived. All the unsaved will be in Sheol/Hades, until Hell is finally created at the end of the millennium and Satan is finally, and forever cast into the Lake of Fire - the Second Resurrection.

Revelation 20

The Thousand Years

And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time. 4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

Satan’s Doom

7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The Dead Are Judged

11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

I agree with you about it being an interesting topic to discuss. We do not know ALL nor EVERYTHING about the end-times but can know what the Lord has revealed to us. I disagree with some people who make this subject a life or death doctrine or who condemn others just because they don't understand things the way they do. One day we WILL know as we are known, but in the meantime, we can praise our Savior Jesus Christ who came into the world to save us and we, who believe in him, can know we have eternal life because God never lies. Thanks for the thread!

28 posted on 08/18/2011 8:37:50 PM PDT by boatbums ( God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums
The unbelievers who were taken out of the earth after the tribulation (not going into the Millennium), will be the ones who take part in the "second resurrection" along with all the unsaved that have ever lived. All the unsaved will be in Sheol/Hades, until Hell is finally created at the end of the millennium and Satan is finally, and forever cast into the Lake of Fire - the Second Resurrection.

The second resurrection? Revelation 20:14 says the second death. Studying this subject, I have come to the conclusion that I do not have a perfect understanding of death and resurrection. We see others die but we don’t know what it is like to die until we die. Certainly this is by design.

My gut feeling is that Christ is the resurrection, both resurrections, and that the second resurrection is somehow connected to the second death. Resurrection isn’t necessary until you die and one resurrection is sufficient unless you die twice. Perhaps that is why the second resurrection is not mentioned.

Notice how different these events are. Those who are raised in Christ, lived (Rev. 20:4) and the ones standing before the throne are twice referred to as dead (Rev 20:12). What is a resurrection without life? Without Christ?
29 posted on 08/18/2011 10:18:10 PM PDT by Seven_0 (You cannot fool all of the people, ever!)
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To: guitarplayer1953

To what post in this thread are you referring?


30 posted on 08/18/2011 11:56:50 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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Comment #31 Removed by Moderator

To: guitarplayer1953

That’s not in this thread. What thread are you talking about?


32 posted on 08/19/2011 3:29:43 AM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: GiovannaNicoletta; boatbums
Don't fret, sweet marbren.

I am fretting a bit because of this interesting article. Not too bad, no worries about me, just those who miss the rapture. I have wondered what happens to us all in eternity, after the millennium, and we can only speculate. I do not know but, Thank God, God knows. The OP says the age of grace ends with the rapture.

People will have to choose to rebel against Christ at that time

Isn't the choice we have more resisting the Holy Spirit in this age of Grace? The work of Grace is all God nothing to do with us. The millennium may not be the age of grace but be more like OT times. Christ is not born in us but visible to us. Blessed are those who have not seen and believe?

I tend to agree that OT saints, maybe the rest of them, and trib saints are resurrected at the end of the tribulation. The rapture is only about the church. I am getting anal about drawing a line between Israel and the Church. IMHO.

33 posted on 08/19/2011 6:28:37 AM PDT by marbren (I do not know but, Thank God, God knows)
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To: guitarplayer1953
Saved with no glorified body no glorified body no prescience of the Lord. No place in heaven?

You can possibly argue when do they get their glorified bodies, but there's a place in heaven for them and, in their song, they anticipate Christ's return and ultimate victory over evil.

And I saw something like a sea of glass mingled with fire, and those who have the victory over the beast, over his image and over his mark and over the number of his name, standing on the sea of glass, having harps of God.
They sing the song of Moses, the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying:
“ Great and marvelous are Your works,
Lord God Almighty!
Just and true are Your ways,
O King of the saints!
Who shall not fear You, O Lord, and glorify Your name?
For You alone are holy.
For all nations shall come and worship before You,
For Your judgments have been manifested.”
Rev. 15:2-4

34 posted on 08/19/2011 6:54:15 AM PDT by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)
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To: guitarplayer1953
There is not a single verse that says there is a pretribe rapture

Really? How about Rev.3:10 "Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth." And that's just one that popped in my mind instantly.

35 posted on 08/19/2011 7:03:18 AM PDT by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)
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To: guitarplayer1953

Are you on this Caucus tread because you are dispensational but do not hold to a pre trib rapture? Is there a millennium in your view?


36 posted on 08/19/2011 7:26:58 AM PDT by marbren (I do not know but, Thank God, God knows)
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To: marbren; GiovannaNicoletta
With discussion and speculation, my sister may have found the resurrection point for those born in the millennium that believe in and trust in the visible Lord Jesus Christ. They are like Thomas who saw and believed. They have their names written in the Book of Life at the second resurrection, The resurrection of the dead before the White throne judgment.

Now new speculation, Is the book of Life only for those in the millennium? Also, is the only physical death during the millennium found in the temple sacrifices which of course point to what Our Lord Jesus Christ endured?

37 posted on 08/19/2011 8:52:39 AM PDT by marbren (I do not know but, Thank God, God knows)
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Comment #38 Removed by Moderator

Comment #39 Removed by Moderator

Comment #40 Removed by Moderator

To: guitarplayer1953

But, this is a dispensational caucus thread? One time Judgment day is discussed in, maybe, a catholic caucus.


41 posted on 08/20/2011 3:19:38 AM PDT by marbren (I do not know but, Thank God, God knows)
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To: guitarplayer1953

I did not say anything about the glorified bodies, I just tried to answer to your comments about “prescience of the Lord” and “No place in heaven”


42 posted on 08/20/2011 7:10:03 AM PDT by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)
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To: guitarplayer1953

Post #36 gives me a clue about your beliefs. You are post-trib, are you also postmillennialist? I think so. Anyhow, Jesus did not pray to take his followers out of the world then, because he was very close to the day when He would give them the Great Commission. Now, once the gospel has been preached to all the earth, what is the point in keeping the Church there? Remember, the Church has a wedding date set in heaven with the Lamb, and that is prior to Jesus physically setting foot back on earth! Also the tribulation is known as Jacob’s trouble... that speaks of Israel, not the Church. Finally, after the first 3 chapters and during all the judgments, how many times does Revelation mention the church? Zero! I could go on and on, I just gave you one sample verse in my previous post. You want to be on this earth during the tribulation? Be my guest! But the price for being a believer during those days will be very high. I’m glad Jesus has promised to take me out of here before it happens!


43 posted on 08/20/2011 7:20:49 AM PDT by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)
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To: marbren

Amazing! I dared to post a comment in the catholic caucus questioning catholic doctrine and I was told right away to stay away from it, that only catholics were allowed to post! But anybody can post anything in the dispensational caucus?


44 posted on 08/20/2011 7:23:08 AM PDT by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)
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To: Former Fetus

It’s been reported. I think that, in the interest of Biblical truth, we may be a bit more tolerant, but enough is enough.


45 posted on 08/20/2011 7:34:59 AM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
Thanks! I love a good discussion on the Bible, particularly on eschatology. But fair is fair, if one is not allowed to post on a caucus unless you share their doctrine, that should apply to all caucuses (or is it cauci? LOL)

Thanks for this thread. As already mentioned, I will be teaching on Rev. 20 tomorrow, so I figured that first I would cover the first and second resurrections, and the stages of the first resurrection... This thread has been priceless! I've been blessed by it and I pray that my students will be blessed also!

46 posted on 08/20/2011 8:01:49 AM PDT by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta; Alamo-Girl; Amityschild; AngieGal; AnimalLover; Ann de IL; aposiopetic; ...
I think this guy's teaching in this video has a lot to say for it.

The teaching starts about 40% into it . . . at about. . . well, with the slider button just after "Media" in the "Windows Media Stream" phrase in blue on the left bottom under the video pic.

The first section is about 40 days of time for setting the blessing to be released over one's life over the next year.

I'd be interested in the Hebrew/Jewish knowledgeable folks to comment on the teaching.

The teaching proper that I'm most interested in sharing is the one immediately after the blurb about the 40 days of blessing setting period.

http://www.larryhuchministries.com/media/stream/#WatchVideo

It MIGHT also be congruent with:

.

Photobucket

47 posted on 09/05/2011 8:47:19 PM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Quix; All
I think this guy's teaching in this video has a lot to say for it. The teaching starts about 40% into it . . . at about. . . well, with the slider button just after "Media" in the "Windows Media Stream" phrase in blue on the left bottom under the video pic.

The first section is about 40 days of time for setting the blessing to be released over one's life over the next year.

I'd be interested in the Hebrew/Jewish knowledgeable folks to comment on the teaching. The teaching proper that I'm most interested in sharing is the one immediately after the blurb about the 40 days of blessing setting period.

http://www.larryhuchministries.com/media/stream/#WatchVideo

Thanks for the video.

It looks like Larry Huckster has a new package for his prosperity "gospel".

Contrary to what Larry teaches Rosh Hannah is not in the Tanach.

However the Feast of Trumpets is.

The "Head of the Year" is cultural and civil not scriptural.

From the Rosh Chodesh of Elul the trumpet(shofar) is blown daily
in preparation for the Feast of Trumpets which occurs on the
Rosh Chodesh of the month of Tishri.

This is the time to begin to seek forgiveness for your sins.

Since no man knows the hour or day of the new moon
of Tishri, many think this is the reference by Yah'shua in Matthew 25:13.

On the tenth of the month of Tishri is the Feast of Yom Kippur
the Day of Atonement is the holiest day of the year for the
Jewish people. Its central themes are atonement and repentance.

This is the forty days of awe or repentance not prosperity as Larry says.

There is as great deal of information on the site:
www.hebrew4christians.com/

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
48 posted on 09/06/2011 9:52:04 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
Ping to 48
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

49 posted on 09/06/2011 10:08:41 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: UriÂ’el-2012

THANKS MUCH, BRO.

I didn’t have anything to compare it with, per se.


50 posted on 09/06/2011 1:29:40 PM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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