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Two Worlds - Two Cultures
Fr. Ray Blake's Blog ^ | 8/19/11 | Fr. Ray Blake

Posted on 08/19/2011 7:16:09 AM PDT by marshmallow

I am sure this will be happening in Madrid as it did in London.

Richard Dawkins brought at least one laspsed Catholic back to the Church during the Papal visit to the UK. She saw the the anti-Pope snarling mob led by Dawkins and Tatchel, with their plastic devil horns and inflated condoms, sex "toys" and angry faces and she saw the sheer joy of those cheering the Pope and the banners carried by the enthusiastic youth. She said it wasn't about arguments, it was about faces. Dawkins & co. glaring and hopeless, those who were there cheering the Pope full of hope and smiling - anger and joy, hate and love.

For her it was the contrast between two worlds, signified by the Pope and Dawkins, faith and faithlessness, hope and hopelessness, the spiritual and the material, light and darkness.

The same two worlds meet in Madrid, they will meet in Dublin next year in the Eucharistic Congress. There is no room for dialogue, there is no common language, there is only contrast. Ultimately this is an apocalyptic battle between Life and Death.

There are two worlds, two cultures that are irreconcilable. I think that it is very interesting that in Madrid as in London those who are anti manifest their opposition do so under the guise of being against the cost but actually so much of the opposition seems to revolve around sex and sexuality.


TOPICS: Catholic; Religion & Culture; Skeptics/Seekers
KEYWORDS: bloomsburygroup; carrollquigley; carrolquigley; catholic; chooselife; cultureofdeath; culturewar; demonic; dilettanti; elizabethstleger; fabians; freemasonry; freemasons; hellfireclubs; jackstleger; johnruskin; keynesatharvard; lifehate; lordbyron; madrid; moralabsolutes; prerafaelites; richardwhaley; sackvillewest; secretsocieties; stleger; thomascarlyle; tolerantleft; virginiawoolf; whaley; wmirving

1 posted on 08/19/2011 7:16:15 AM PDT by marshmallow
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To: marshmallow

Should there be only one culture?


2 posted on 08/19/2011 7:19:01 AM PDT by stuartcr ("Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different.")
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To: marshmallow
anger and joy, hate and love.

Insanity and sanity.

3 posted on 08/19/2011 7:25:45 AM PDT by the invisib1e hand
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To: stuartcr
With regards to language, culinary tastes, dress, architecture and literature?

No.

With regards to the sanctity of human life?

Yes.

4 posted on 08/19/2011 7:26:36 AM PDT by marshmallow (.)
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To: marshmallow

People should all believe the same? Where’s the balance in only having one of something? Suppose someone wants a war, and someone else doesn’t?


5 posted on 08/19/2011 7:30:39 AM PDT by stuartcr ("Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different.")
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To: stuartcr
Where’s the balance in only having one of something?

Well there's only one God, and as a result, one truth and one salvation which is eternal.

Is that too unbalanced for you?

6 posted on 08/19/2011 7:35:24 AM PDT by marshmallow (.)
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To: stuartcr

You seem to miss the fact that the left is trying to impose its ¨one culture¨ on the Christians.


7 posted on 08/19/2011 7:40:45 AM PDT by livius
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To: marshmallow

There´s an old saying that all heresy begins below the belt.

And if you´ll look at most heresies, you´ll find that this is true. The Cathari and a host of others had peculiar beliefs about sex (while many of these groups reject marriage, orgies seem to be ok), Luther wanted to get married and finally ended up writing in favor of polygamy, and then we have things like Islam and Mormonism, both of which (as we see in the FLDS trials) had ¨prophets¨ who favored lots of sex with very young girls and wanted their male followers to have the benefit of this.

That said, I wish somebody could post some of the photos from the Spanish press of the gays and leftists attacking priests, teenage visitors and anyone wearing a cross. There´s one particularly ugly one of a 50ish man screaming insults with his mouth right next to the face of a teenage girl, who is crying and has her cross pressed up against her lips.

The ¨demonstrators¨ were in an area that is a major transit crossing (Metro station, bus stops, etc.) and these pilgrims were just there on their way to events or even to the places they were staying and had no idea there was going to be this ugly crowd awaiting them. The City of Madrid tried to stop the ¨anti-Pope¨ groups from gathering there and get them to go to another location, but the Spanish Government (very anti-Catholic) insisted that they be allowed to do this, knowing full well that they intended to attack the pilgrims.

Their faces were so ugly and their deeds were so disgusting, though, that I think there has been a great outpouring of support for the Church, and suddenly many people are coming forward to publicly profess their faith. So God is bringing good out of evil.


8 posted on 08/19/2011 7:52:40 AM PDT by livius
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To: stuartcr
Suppose someone wants a war, and someone else doesn’t?

Then 'someone else' will either fight or die.

And maybe both, but they'll have died on their feet rather than their knees, and the history of their courage will inspire ever more valor.



9 posted on 08/19/2011 7:58:18 AM PDT by tomkat
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To: stuartcr

There is just NO balance, none.

This is about saving the western culture as well as bring it back to its Judeo/Christian heritiage and roots.


10 posted on 08/19/2011 8:15:38 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: livius
There´s one particularly ugly one of a 50ish man screaming insults with his mouth right next to the face of a teenage girl, who is crying and has her cross pressed up against her lips.

Is this the pic?

Here's another "one picture is worth a thousand words" image.


11 posted on 08/19/2011 8:19:16 AM PDT by Oratam
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To: Oratam

Such anger and hatred. It’s disturbing.


12 posted on 08/19/2011 8:24:23 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: livius

Never knew that old saying at all about all heresy begins below the belt. Learn something NEW today.

Also I sense that the socialist Spanish government is letting the anti-Pope protesters protest because I have read I believe on FR that there is a “conservative” political challenger challenging the present socialist PM in upcoming elections and they say that in most likely that the conservative will win. Plus also heard that there is more conservatives in the parliment.

I sense this abuse is going to also bring more young people and people in general into the Church or at least have a new found respect.

The one concern I do have is that those who are so opposed to the Church may use the horrible sex abuse scandals as a “weapon”, if you get my drift.


13 posted on 08/19/2011 8:40:15 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: marshmallow

Good for me, but since God created everyone knowing how and what they would believe and seeing how the world really is and has been, it seems that’s just not the way He intended for it to be.


14 posted on 08/19/2011 8:57:05 AM PDT by stuartcr ("Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different.")
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To: livius

Yes, that sort of thing has been going on since there were people. That’s why I don’t believe there is a one world/culture possible. It’s just human nature, as God intended.


15 posted on 08/19/2011 9:00:02 AM PDT by stuartcr ("Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different.")
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To: livius

Could it just be because the people that originally defined heresy, said so?


16 posted on 08/19/2011 9:01:51 AM PDT by stuartcr ("Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different.")
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To: tomkat

What about the sanctity of life that was mentioned? Doesn’t that show that there is not just one world/culture?


17 posted on 08/19/2011 9:03:26 AM PDT by stuartcr ("Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different.")
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To: stuartcr

Except that human nature is not as God intended, because of the Fall.


18 posted on 08/19/2011 9:05:00 AM PDT by Campion ("Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies when they become fashions." -- GKC)
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To: Oratam

Terrible in both cases.

This is not peaceful protesting by those folks opposed to WYD, this is intimatdation. I had a few words to say to those who are doing the trouble making, but this post would be removed.


19 posted on 08/19/2011 9:10:34 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: trisham
Such anger and hatred. It’s disturbing.

Actually, it's demonic. These people are simply revealing the nature of their master, the Father of Lies.

20 posted on 08/19/2011 9:15:36 AM PDT by hellbender
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To: Biggirl

I doubt there will ever be a true equilibrium, just movement.


21 posted on 08/19/2011 9:28:26 AM PDT by stuartcr ("Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different.")
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To: Campion

I do not believe that anything can happen that is not intended by God.


22 posted on 08/19/2011 9:52:59 AM PDT by stuartcr ("Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different.")
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To: stuartcr
Suppose someone wants a war, and someone else doesn’t?

Simple.

Kill the ones who want a war.

Preferably, by waging war against them.

23 posted on 08/19/2011 9:55:34 AM PDT by Lazamataz (SmithL stole my tagline and won't give it back.)
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To: stuartcr; marshmallow
People should all believe the same? Where’s the balance in only having one of something?

Of course not, people won't believe the same. And of course it's unbalanced to have only one side of something....... even about the sanctity of human life.

You see, there will always be two sides: Evil, and good. Evil will always hate life, and truth, and goodness.

So there's your balance, stu!

24 posted on 08/19/2011 9:58:49 AM PDT by Lazamataz (SmithL stole my tagline and won't give it back.)
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To: Lazamataz

Right, that’s what I was trying to tell Mr. Mallow.


25 posted on 08/19/2011 10:05:11 AM PDT by stuartcr ("Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different.")
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To: stuartcr; Campion
I do not believe that anything can happen that is not intended by God.

If I decide to rape, torture and murder somebody today, on the spur of the moment, does that mean that God wants me to do it? I doubt that the claim that "God made me do it" will carry much weight either with the judge here in the courtroom or with the Judge in Heaven.

26 posted on 08/19/2011 10:06:00 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: stuartcr; marshmallow
Right, that’s what I was trying to tell Mr. Mallow.

To balance your effort, I was trying to REMOVE that very thought from Mr. Mallow.

27 posted on 08/19/2011 10:08:28 AM PDT by Lazamataz (SmithL stole my tagline and won't give it back.)
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To: MarkBsnr
If I decide to rape, torture and murder somebody today, on the spur of the moment, does that mean that God wants me to do it?

No, it simply means you are part of a Flash Mob.

28 posted on 08/19/2011 10:10:04 AM PDT by Lazamataz (SmithL stole my tagline and won't give it back.)
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To: stuartcr
Sin happens. Does God intend for sin to happen?

Isn't sin, by definition, something contrary to the Divine will? Isn't it therefore a contradiction for God to intend sin? Doesn't believing that God intends sin make the concept of "sin" meaningless?

29 posted on 08/19/2011 10:44:57 AM PDT by Campion ("Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies when they become fashions." -- GKC)
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To: MarkBsnr

I really do not know if God wants you to, but He certainly created you knowing you would do it, right?

You’re right, that is not a very convincing plea for the courts here on earth. I cannot say what happens after death.


30 posted on 08/19/2011 12:08:35 PM PDT by stuartcr ("Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different.")
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To: Campion

I have no idea what God intends, but I do believe that He knows what we will do in our lifetimes.

I believe that is our human definition, as for God, I do not know His definition or if He even has one. He may look at the things we do here on earth completely differently.


31 posted on 08/19/2011 12:12:13 PM PDT by stuartcr ("Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different.")
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To: Lazamataz
If I decide to rape, torture and murder somebody today, on the spur of the moment, does that mean that God wants me to do it?

No, it simply means you are part of a Flash Mob.

There's nothing new under the sun. From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_mob:

"In 1973, the story "Flash Crowd" by Larry Niven described a concept similar to flash mobs.[19] With the invention of popular and very inexpensive teleportation, an argument at a shopping mall – which happens to be covered by a news crew – quickly swells into a riot. In the story, broadcast coverage attracts the attention of other people, who use the widely available technology of the teleportation booth to swarm first that event – thus intensifying the riot – and then other events as they happen. Commenting on the social impact of such mobs, one character (articulating the police view) says, "We call them flash crowds, and we watch for them." In related short stories, they are named as a prime location for illegal activities (such as pickpocketing and looting) to take place."

32 posted on 08/19/2011 1:08:49 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: stuartcr
I really do not know if God wants you to, but He certainly created you knowing you would do it, right?

The Church Fathers certainly wrestled with the concept of foreknowledge, but only Augustine wandered over to the predestination of the saints. Calvin, of course, took it a step further.

You’re right, that is not a very convincing plea for the courts here on earth. I cannot say what happens after death.

Hebrews 9: 27Just as it is appointed that human beings die once, and after this the judgment,t 28so also Christ, offered once to take away the sins of many,* will appear a second time, not to take away sin but to bring salvation to those who eagerly await him.u

33 posted on 08/19/2011 1:14:23 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: MarkBsnr

I still cannot say what happens after death.


34 posted on 08/19/2011 2:32:37 PM PDT by stuartcr ("Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different.")
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To: stuartcr
I have no idea what God intends

That contradicts what you said in #22, where you said that nothing happens except what God intends. If #22 is correct, then you do know at least part of what God intends: it's what happens.

I do believe that He knows what we will do in our lifetimes.

And you're absolutely right about that. But knowing about something isn't the same as intending it.

I would agree with you if you said that everything that happens, happens either because God permits it or because He positively wills (that is, intends) it. The "permits" clause is required, at the very least, because God cannot intend for us to commit sin.

35 posted on 08/19/2011 5:54:54 PM PDT by Campion ("Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies when they become fashions." -- GKC)
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To: Campion

Please reread #22. I said I didn’t believe, not that I actually know. Of course I can’t know. You’re very blessed to actually know so much.


36 posted on 08/19/2011 6:17:52 PM PDT by stuartcr ("Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different.")
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To: marshmallow

PLacemark.


37 posted on 08/19/2011 9:28:52 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: livius

“There´s an old saying that all heresy begins below the belt. And if you´ll look at most heresies, you´ll find that this is true.”

I made this shocking discovery without knowing about the heresies. I was doing some research on a specific individual and a specific event which tracked back to secret societies. An amazing trail which I’m still on...


38 posted on 08/21/2011 11:28:23 PM PDT by bronxville (Sarah will be the first American female president.)
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To: Oratam; marshmallow
- They used to hide in secret societies - today it's out in the open.
39 posted on 08/21/2011 11:42:24 PM PDT by bronxville (Sarah will be the first American female president.)
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To: Oratam; livius
That picture got front page in one of the Spanish newspapers.
40 posted on 08/21/2011 11:47:51 PM PDT by bronxville (Sarah will be the first American female president.)
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To: Oratam

Those two guys look gay as all get out. It figures they are picking on young girls; later they probably were trying to pick up young boys. Gays in this country are very anti-Catholic too.


41 posted on 08/21/2011 11:56:34 PM PDT by decisis
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To: bronxville

There´s another one where he got even closer to her (theoretically, they weren´t supposed to physically touch the WYD attendees) and you can see the spittle flying as he screams in her ear. At that point, she is crying.

A lot of Catholics, not only young ones, did show up later to protect the pilgrims. Sol is where you come up out of the Metro from practically anywhere in Madrid, so a lot of the visitors didn´t even know that these thugs were waiting for them.


42 posted on 08/22/2011 4:47:23 AM PDT by livius
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To: bronxville

Interesting! What was the secret society?


43 posted on 08/22/2011 4:48:45 AM PDT by livius
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To: livius
A lot of Catholics, not only young ones, did show up later to protect the pilgrims. Sol is where you come up out of the Metro from practically anywhere in Madrid, so a lot of the visitors didn´t even know that these thugs were waiting for them.

I might have to schedule a road trip to Rio for the next one. I know it's supposed to be for youth, but they shouldn't have to take all that heat alone.

44 posted on 08/22/2011 11:07:12 AM PDT by nina0113
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To: livius

“Interesting! What was the secret society?”

The “Hell Fire Club” is an umbrella name for the many clubs/societies. One can track a general template back to the 14/15th c, the “dissolution” of the old Guilds, e.g., this poster looked at N. Holland - Wm of Orange, Orange Lodges in N Ireland etc. The banning of Catholic paintings led to new “enlightened” openings (all craftsmen needed a benefactor or patron) in publishing, scuptural, painting, poetry, books, plays, music, operas, philosophical, social thinker endeavors which omitted God altogether for the most part - began to fill the void with humanism. All of which led to High Mannerisms, the Romantic period, Symbolism, and so much more. Tolstoy in War and Peace illustrated that leaders are constrained by what is happening with the masses. Or put another way, leaders make opportunistic use of the tendencies of the masses.

The picture above is Francis Dashwood - one of the more infamous pagans but there were/are many others -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Dashwood,_15th_Baron_le_Despencer
http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/history/hellfire/hellfire.html
http://mysteryoftheinquity.wordpress.com/2011/02/21/the-hellfire-caves/
http://www.slate.com/id/2238342/entry/2238343/

“Chiswick House has also been linked with Freemasonry,[11] and is believed by some scholars to have functioned as a Masonic Lodge or Temple, given that some of the ceiling paintings by William Kent in the Gallery and the Red, Blue and Summer Parlour Rooms contain iconography of a strong Masonic, Hermetic, and possible Jacobite character.[11][12] Lord Burlington’s status as an important Freemason is indicated by his inclusion in the Freemason’s Pocket Companion of 1736 and in a poem in James Anderson’s Constitutions of the Free Masons of 1723 where he is linked to an illustrious line of personalities. Pat Rogers has argued that Chiswick House was a symbolic temple, based on so-called Royal Arch Freemasonry, involving a Hermetic intervention designed to heal the sufferings of the exiled Jews.[11]” -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiswick_House
http://comeheretome.wordpress.com/2010/01/06/buck-whaley-and-the-hellfire-club/
http://www.myspace.com/hellfiresclub666/blog/316878680

The Secret Society of Dilettanti 1734 - Prince Charles is an hononory member - benefactor Dashwood - see link above.

“Ribald and profane, the Society nurtured a lively curiosity for ancient erotica, piqued by the sensational finds of sexually explicit art in Herculaneum and Pompeii. They made a subversive contribution to the interpretation of ancient mythology and religion with A Discourse on the Worship of Priapus, which drew from reports of a phallic cult in southern Italy. Designed both to inform and to titillate, this daring treatise argued that all art is rooted in religion, and all religion in sexuality. The exhibition Grecian Taste and Roman Spirit includes what scandalized critics termed “obscene” artifacts, installed in an intimate, dimly lit gallery evoking the “museo segreto,” or a cabinet of erotic curiosities”. ...
http://www.artknowledgenews.com/Society_of_Dilettanti.html

“Anne, Countess of Castlehaven (d. 1647), was involved in one of the most sensational trials in British history. On Monday, 25 April 1631, her husband, the Earl of Castlehaven, was tried and convicted of sodomy (i.e., buggery with one of his servants) and rape (of his wife, i.e, restraining her while another of his servants raped her). For these crimes the Earl was beheaded on 14 May 1631.”
http://www.wargs.com/essays/succession/castlehaven.html

One can learn a lot about “revolutions” from the Anglo-Irish United Irishmen (not saying there wasn’t a need for an uprising but the Irish were used just like the peasantry in France) - note the “liberty cap” aka “Phrygian cap” on their logo -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_of_the_United_Irishmen
Homosexuals have claimed Ganymedes as their man-child patron -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrygian_cap

Mrs. Elizabeth Aldworth 1693 - 1775

Elizabeth Aldworth, known as ‘The Lady Freemason’. Born The Hon. Elizabeth St. Leger, daughter of Lord Doneraile of Doneraile Court, in 1693 and married in 1713 to Richard Aldworth, Esq.

From a narrative published by the family in 1811 it appears that, upon secretly observing the first two degrees of a lodge at labour in her father’s home, she was discovered and, after discussion, initiated in the Entered Apprentice and Fellowcraft Degree.

The initiation was in 1712 to Lodge No44 at Doneraile Court.
http://www.freemasoncollection.com/3-PORTRAITS-OF-FAMOUS-MASONS/aldworth-elisabeth-saint-leger-portraits-of-famous-masons.php

‘THE MAIN FACT OF HER BEING MADE A MASON REMAINS UNDISPUTED’....
http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/aqc/aldworth.html

A COPY OF HER INITIATION...
http://www.genealogy.com/users/s/t/l/Rosemary-Stlegermay/PHOTO/0022photo.html

THE FAMILY BLUEBLOOD LINEAGE...
http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/Bios/AnthonyStLeger1.htm

MASONIC REGALIA AT THE CORK MUSEUM...
http://www.munsterfreemason.com/The_Lady_Freemason.htm
http://www.munsterfreemason.com/Photo_Library.htm
Your refusal to accept reality does not alter reality.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2745912/posts?q=1&;page=133#133

“Your refusal to accept reality does not alter reality. The banning of women only holds for Anderson’s Constitutions (the so-called Enlightenment period, a period when inversions were first notably initiated) as there’s no such explicit ban against women in the Old Charges.”

“FreeMasonry history acknowledges Elizabeth St. Leger as a FreeMason - that you personally don’t is of little consequence.”

“I can also backup my comments in post #89 from Masonic writings, Historical writings, and pedigree. When I get time I’ll also defend that vilified post.”

Meanwhile...

A letter from George Washington, Mount Vernon, October 24, 1798 - To Reverend G. W. Snyder:

...’It was not my intention to doubt that, the Doctrines of the Illuminati, and principles of Jacobinism had not spread in the United States. On the contrary, no one is more truly satisfied of this fact than I am.’.... http://etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=WasFi36.xml&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=388&division=div1

Elizabeth St Leger Aldworth even had her membership engraved into her tombstone with the words “Initiated into Freemasonry in Lodge No. 44 at Doneraile Court In this County” along with a square and compass, the symbol of the Freemasons. Jack St Leger was a co-founder of an infamous Hell Fire Club in Kilkenny - her grandchildren married into the Gascoyne-Cecils who are married into Sackville-West via the Fitzgeralds. The Rothchilds own Jacks painting by Gainsborough.

Post 125 - This Anglo-Irish family are a very well-known name in the history books of Ireland. Her father was the Lord Deputy of Ireland who “worked hard” for King Henry VIII. I won’t go into her father’s role in the Dissolution and Theft of the Irish Monasteries and his friendship with Cromwell... What’s interesting is why this family felt the need to become lodgers in their own home and what did she see that made her faint...The bluebloods also have different “practices” than the lower class’. Just read about the sexual-diviancy of the Pre-Raphaelites, Cambridge Apostles, Keynesians, [Bloomsbury and Kit-Cat group/club] Fabians, and so on...(can’t substantiate that they were ALL freemasons nor that they were ALL diviants but many were).
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2745912/posts?q=1&;page=133#133

The Hellfire Club
Andrew Behan
Copyright (c) 1996 Andrew Behan (?a relative of Brendan)
http://www.talesofterror.net/tale0054-hellfireclub.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Leger

“The president of the club was Richard Chappell Whaley, a descendant of Oliver Cromwell and known as “Burn-Chapel” Whaley on account of his penchant for setting fire to Catholic churches.[21] (these people hated Catholics with a passion - we were also a threat to their lifestyle because they stole all of it from the Irish Catholics). Evidence of the identities of other members comes from a painting by James Worsdale titled The Hell Fire Club, now held by the National Gallery of Ireland, which shows five members of the club seated around a table.[22] The five men are Harry Barry, Lord Santry (who was tried and convicted for murder in 1739);[23] Simon Luttrell, Lord Irnham; Colonel Henry Bessborough; Colonel Richard St George and Colonel Clements.[22] Most of their meetings occurred in Dublin city centre, either at the Eagle Tavern on Cork Hill, near Dublin Castle, or at Daly’s Club on College Green.[20] Accounts of the club’s meetings claim that members drank “scaltheen”, a mixture of whiskey and hot butter, and that they left a chair vacant at each gathering for the Devil.[24] The club’s mascot was a black cat (Dashwoods was a chip dressed up as a monk).[24]”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellfire_Club,_Dublin

“”The late Earl of Rosse was, in character and disposition, like the humorous Earl of Rochester; he had an infinite fund of wit, great spirits, and a liberal heart; was fond of all the vices which the beau monde call pleasures, and by those means first impaired his fortune as much as he possibly could do; and finally, his health, beyond repair.””
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Parsons,_1st_Earl_of_Rosse

John Ruskin (whose mentor was Thomas Carlyle whose mentor was Wm Irving started this society. He was a mentor to Cecil Rhodes from the Rhodes Scolar fame, ie Clinton et al, Clintons mentor was Carrol Quigley who wrote a great book which included a few of these secret societies...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preraphaelites

It’s been a while since I really dug deeply into the members of this society but remember thinking how many of their children died at a young age. When one thinks of families like the one portrayed by Jane Austen who only lived a few miles away from one of them it does make one wonder how much they cared for their offspring. I don’t remember which members wife who repented and became a Catholic.

Bloomsbury Group - most of the members ancestors were involved with luciferianism and/or social humanism -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloomsbury_Group

Keynes at Harvard...here you’ll find a chapter on their sexual perversions..
http://keynesatharvard.org/book/index.html

Probably a lot more than you asked for but it helped me get some of it together since I crashed my wordprocessor and lost most of the info/links I’d gathered disappeared...there’s lots more...of course. :) One of the St Legers (I think Jacks son) was an officer for the British Army against Americans in the Revolution).


45 posted on 08/24/2011 2:46:29 PM PDT by bronxville (Sarah will be the first American female president.)
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