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WHAT ARE THE MARYLIKE STANDARDS?
http://cora.dashjr.org/trad/modesty.html#chap3 ^ | 8/25/2011 | Morgana's BVM Vanity

Posted on 08/25/2011 12:55:19 PM PDT by Morgana

"A dress cannot be called decent which is cut deeper than two fingers' breadth under the pit of the throat;; which does not cover the arms at least to the elbows; and scarcely reaches a bit beyond the knees. Furthermore, dresses of transparent material are improper." (The Cardinal vicar of Pope Pius XI)

Marylike is modest without compromise, "like Mary", Christ's Mother. Marylike dresses have sleeves extending at least to the elbows; and skirts reaching below the knees. Acceptable Marylike Standards have been revealed in many private revelations since 1917 throughout the world. One of these standards is the dress or skirt should be at least three inches below the bottom of the knee. Our Blessed Mother was very specific in one of these private revelations commenting that when a woman sits down her dress or skirt should cover her knees with the requested three inches. Our bodies are not all the same size and contour. Therefore some women may have to add additional inches to their dresses and skirts because when sitting down the dress or skirt has a tendency to pull the garment up leaving the knees exposed. (NOTE: Because of market conditions, quarter-length sleeves are temporarily tolerated with Ecclesiastical Approval, until Christian womanhood again turns to Mary as the model of modesty in dress.) Marylike dresses require full coverage for the bodice, chest, shoulders and back; except for a cut-out about the neck not exceeding two inches below the neckline in front and in the back, and a corresponding two inches on the shoulders.

Marylike dresses do not admit as modest coverage transparent fabrics, laces, nets, organdy, nylons, etc. unless sufficient backing is added. However, their moderate use as trimmings is acceptable.

Marylike dresses avoid the improper use of fleshcolored fabrics.

(Excerpt) Read more at cora.dashjr.org ...


TOPICS: Activism; Catholic; Moral Issues
KEYWORDS: blessedvirginmary; bvm; catholic; clothing; madremary; mamamary; mary; marylike; modesty; mothermary; properdress; sourcetitlenoturl; vanity; virginmary
Marylike dresses conceal rather than reveal the figure of the wearer; they do not emphasize, unduly, parts of the body. Marylike dresses provide full coverage, even after jacket, cape or stole are removed and after assuming a sitting position.

REMARKS ON THE MARYLIKE STANDARDS:

This set of standards avoids a long litany of rules and details, which often only serves to complicate matters and add to existing confusion. Its form is concise, resting on the two fundamental rules of modesty: sufficient coverage and proper fit.

Therefore, a few added points of clarification are here in order.

MARYLIKE -- The first standard seeks to re-enthrone Mary, the perfect model of modesty, in the hearts of her children.

TWO-INCH CUT-OUT -- "Two inches" is the equivalent of the measure given by the Cardinal-Vicar of Rome, "two fingers' breadth below the hollow of the throat."

TRANSPARENT FABRICS -- Many women fail to realize that transparent dresses are suggestive and cause serious temptations to men. In some cases, because of the emphasized seductiveness of a pretended coverage, they are even worse than the bare skin. They tease the passions. Hence transparent fabrics are outlawed for those parts of the body which require coverage unless they are backed with sufficiently solid material to conceal the flesh.

Marylike women will refuse to become the pawn in Satan's hands to promote this modern ruse for seduction, which he uses on an extensive scale. Marylike brides and their attendants will not dare to stand at the bridal altar, in the presence of their Eucharistic Lord, attired in gowns of flimsy material, thus placing in jeopardy the blessing of God offered by the Church for the marital life.

Marylike mothers will never permit their innocent daughters to don the flimsy and transparent First Communion dresses now flooding the market, which are an insult to the King of Kings Who deigns to enter their innocent little hearts for the first time in their lives; and which causes them to lose their "sense of modesty" in tender years, even for the House of God.

FLESH COLOUR -- This color is not considered objectionable in itself for dresses, but only when used to suggest the bare skin in parts of the body requiring coverage. Thus, flesh color would be highly objectionable when used as trimming on the chest, the midriff, etc.

CONCEAL THE FIGURE -- Dresses which provide sufficient coverage may still be very immodest by reason of the fit, which renders them suggestive. Thus, a tight or form-fitting bodice is highly objectionable. On the other hand, a fit which is too loose at the two inch neckline allowed in standard number 3, especially over the shoulders and on the chest, does easily "reveal the figure" of the wearer of the dress, especially in bending or stooping.

BRAS AND SLIPS -- Modest women always wear slips that conceal, and bras of proper fit. The most Marylike dress can become very immodest, e.g., if worn over pointed or uplift bras.

"O, HOW BEAUTIFUL IS THE CHASTE GENERATION WITH GLORY, FOR THE MEMORY THEREOF IS IMMORTAL: BECAUSE IT IS KNOWN BOTH WITH GOD AND MEN." (Wisdom 4:1)

1 posted on 08/25/2011 12:55:23 PM PDT by Morgana
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To: Morgana

...and she was able to give birth to a baby while dressed like that?


2 posted on 08/25/2011 12:59:00 PM PDT by WayneS (Enlightened statesmen will not always be at the helm. -- James Madison)
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To: WayneS

Burkas were the style then


3 posted on 08/25/2011 1:26:19 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: Morgana

If a woman chooses to adhere to these standards of dress, more power to her. However, I reject the vision of Decency Police walking the streets with clubs and branding irons for those who do not so choose. Enforced modesty is as false as enforced piety.


4 posted on 08/25/2011 1:36:07 PM PDT by IronJack (=)
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To: Morgana

If a woman chooses to adhere to these standards of dress, more power to her. However, I reject the vision of Decency Police walking the streets with clubs and branding irons for those who do not so choose. Enforced modesty is as false as enforced piety.


5 posted on 08/25/2011 1:37:58 PM PDT by IronJack (=)
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To: Morgana

“”like Mary”, Christ’s Mother”

Mary was the mother of Jesus. Christ was with God in the beginning. Where was Mary then?


6 posted on 08/25/2011 1:46:07 PM PDT by RoadTest (Organized religion is no substitute for the relationship the living God wants with you.)
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To: IronJack

Where do you get the idea there are decency police with clubs?


7 posted on 08/25/2011 1:46:53 PM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: the OlLine Rebel

Try living in Saudi Arabia and have your wife/daughter walk down the street as they would if they were at the mall.


8 posted on 08/25/2011 1:50:50 PM PDT by Ax
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To: RnMomof7
Burkas were the style then

Wrong.

9 posted on 08/25/2011 1:52:14 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Ax

I’m aware of that. But Catholic directives do not mean THEY are clubbing people. Just printing what is moral doesn’t mean clubs are GOING to be used.


10 posted on 08/25/2011 1:54:48 PM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: Morgana

My daughter has been asking (male) friends, her father and her brother what guys are attracted to in women’s clothing. They broke it down to her like this:

- when a female wears male clothes it actually gives the signal that they are ‘taken’. There’s a subconscious cue given that she’s wearing her mate’s clothing and tells other males to back off.
- women who wear ‘slutty’ clothes send signals that they are not to be taken seriously. Guys that hit on women wearing clothes like that are not looking for a long-term relationship. They’re looking for sex.
- the pride that a woman takes in her appearance is actually an advertisement to men of her respective ‘value’ as a human being. (It probably shouldn’t be this way, but it appears that it is.)
- women should wear clothes that flatter, but don’t ‘show off the goods’. Hints of femininity are more enticing than tons of cleavage.
- a girl doesn’t have to wear deep cleavage for a guy to notice her breasts. no matter what a girl wears - he notices.
- baggy clothing say a ton about a girl’s personality. it shows a lack of confidence, self-esteem and pride and does nothing to entice. One guy even said that baggy clothes read ‘victim’ to him.
- the best way a woman can entice a good guy is just by being clean, smelling nice, looking put-together and being friendly.

My son and his friends gave the consensus that the most attractive girl had her hair done nicely (not ‘frozen’ or over-styled), had makeup that was fresh and not thick, wore a girl’s t-shirt that fit well but wasn’t skin-tight and jeans that were not baggy and not painted on. (These are kids aged 16-22)

When I look at young women (teenagers and early 20’s) it looks like most of them are trying to out-slut each other. They think that the way to attract a guy is through sexual signals. (As one of my son’s friends said, “Yeah, she may keep my attention for one night, but I’m sure not interested in anything she has to say.”)

The other thing that I found interesting is that most of these guys have said that once the impression is set (”she’s a slut”) it’s almost impossible to shift. Even after he gets to know her, she’ll still not be elevated completely if she continues to dress wrong.

Hubby has joined in these conversations over the last year or so and I must admit that I didn’t have any idea that men read so much into a woman’s wardrobe.

Guys, chime in if you have more to add. Young woman need this information.


11 posted on 08/25/2011 1:58:08 PM PDT by Marie (I agree with everything that Rick Perry is saying. I just wish that *he* did. (NO to Bush II))
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To: RoadTest

That is really weird theology to make you ask that Question.

When Jesus spoke on earth, God’s words came out. When Mary had a baby, God came out. Mary is therefore the mother of God. JOachim and Anna are the Grandparents of God. David was a forefather of God. On the Cross God died and on the 3rd day God rose. God did all of this by condescension accepting our nature and uniting it to His ever-existent Son the 2nd person of Trinity.

Refusal to accept this is heresy. Many early Christians couldn’t abide this and chose to be heretics instead.


12 posted on 08/25/2011 2:04:41 PM PDT by Rippin
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To: Marie

Sadly, there are many young women who know that the way they dress says “slut”, but they don’t care; they enjoy the attention and the flaunting of their sexuality.


13 posted on 08/25/2011 2:22:58 PM PDT by Bigg Red (Palin in 2012)
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To: Marie

14 posted on 08/25/2011 2:24:08 PM PDT by Morgana (I don't speak much...............but when I do....)
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To: Morgana

My dear departed mother taught us, her daughters, that a woman should wear her clothes tight enough to show she is a woman but loose enough to show that she is a lady.


15 posted on 08/25/2011 2:24:54 PM PDT by Bigg Red (Palin in 2012)
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To: Bigg Red

16 posted on 08/25/2011 2:41:36 PM PDT by Morgana (I don't speak much...............but when I do....)
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To: Rippin
Arianism is alive and well. Some folks seem to have trouble with the idea that Jesus IS God.

John 8:
52The Jews therefore said: Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest: If any man keep my word, he shall not taste death for ever. 53Art thou greater than our father Abraham, who is dead? and the prophets are dead. Whom dost thou make thyself? 54Jesus answered: If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father that glorifieth me, of whom you say that he is your God. 55And you have not known him, but I know him. And if I shall say that I know him not, I shall be like to you, a liar. But I do know him, and do keep his word. 56Abraham your father rejoiced that he might see my day: he saw it, and was glad. 57The Jews therefore said to him: Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say to you, before Abraham was made, I am. 59They took up stones therefore to cast at him. But Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple.

The Jews knew perfectly well what he meant, and they either believed him (as His Apostles and disciples) or they had a conniption fit like these Pharisees did.

17 posted on 08/25/2011 2:41:53 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Bigg Red

Girls that dress slutty think that they’re giving men (boys) what they want. They think that male attention is loving attention.


18 posted on 08/25/2011 2:56:15 PM PDT by Marie (I agree with everything that Rick Perry is saying. I just wish that *he* did. (NO to Bush II))
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To: Bigg Red

***My dear departed mother taught us, her daughters, that a woman should wear her clothes tight enough to show she is a woman but loose enough to show that she is a lady.***

Love it, love it, LOVE IT!! :-)


19 posted on 08/25/2011 3:01:03 PM PDT by Marie (I agree with everything that Rick Perry is saying. I just wish that *he* did. (NO to Bush II))
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To: Marie

Yeah, messed up, huh?

I am appalled to see what parents allow their teen daughters to wear. If mom is clueless, you would think that dad would clue her in about what is going through a man’s mind when daughter is wearing her short shorts and spaghetti-strap tank top. Does he really want men looking at his daughter like that?


20 posted on 08/25/2011 3:03:22 PM PDT by Bigg Red (Palin in 2012)
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To: the OlLine Rebel
Where do you get the idea there are decency police with clubs?

I didn't say there were. My point was that dress should be a choice, not a regulation. I salute women who dress modestly. But as much as that, I salute women who dress the way THEY want, not the way men or society or whoremongers or prudes or their girlfriends or Sex in the City or anyone else tells them to.

21 posted on 08/25/2011 3:35:48 PM PDT by IronJack (=)
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To: Marie

I live in the subtropics sleeves down to the elbow would have me suffering from heat stroke.


22 posted on 08/26/2011 10:44:41 AM PDT by lastchance ("Nisi credideritis, non intelligetis" St. Augustine)
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To: IronJack

Then your comment about clubs was specious.


23 posted on 08/26/2011 11:05:10 AM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: the OlLine Rebel; IronJack; Marie; Ax; Chode; Bigg Red; lastchance; ArrogantBustard; Tax-chick; ...
Okay....now are all of you done acting like I have come in here to declare Catholic Shiria? Several days ago we had thread about women (and men) who do not dress correctly for Mass. So posted this as a reminder on what proper dress for a Catholic woman is. My how some of us have forgotten. Yes I do agree that it is best if it comes from the heart and is not forced like is done in Saudi Arabia. However this type of behavior starts in the home and in the early years. How many of your young daughters, or you know of young girls who have pictures of Brittney Spears on their wall? Or how about Lindsey Lohan? Lindsey Lohan Pictures, Images and Photos What do you think these images do you young girls? I apologize to the mods here but I am trying to make a point. Girls look at these, girls idolize these, and girls want to be these teen stars!!! I know I did!!! Remember this one????? Yea! I am that old! I wanted to look like her, to dress like her and to be her. I did dress like her and you know what? My parents never know because what they saw leaving the house and what I had on after was two different things. It was amazing that an actress thousands of miles away had this much power over me as a teen. I was not Catholic then. Had I been it might have been another story and the real "Madonna" would have had more influence over me. Like it should be for all girls? I encourage all parents to have the Blessed Virgin Mary as a role model for their daughter. I don't care if you are Catholic or not. To have them put of posters of Mary and not Brittney, Lindsey, Paris or whoever... I believe this will encourage better dress in them. The Blessed Virgin is the role model women need in today's world full of people like Oprah, women on the View, and as one of you said "Sex and the City". Okay I don't think they will dress exactly like Mary but they won't be the little tramps we see today. Ladies what is your take on this?
24 posted on 08/26/2011 2:34:13 PM PDT by Morgana (I don't speak much...............but when I do....)
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To: Morgana
I agree. I am embarrassed by these "fully dressed" women. Never mind the flack I got a few years ago for calling out Mrs. Thompson on her risque dresses, representing "Republicans".

Although in general circulation (as opposed to concerts, which were yucky), "Madonna" Cicone mostly suffered from literally trashy dressing. Which I didn't mind. Metaphorical trashy was much worse.

25 posted on 08/26/2011 2:54:49 PM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: Morgana

I think that girls who present themselves in a manner that indicates respect for themselves as complete human beings will attract decent men, while girls who present themselves as a pair of b**** and a b*** will attract males who are basically a walking p****. (Pardon the anatomy.) Anoreth always has nice young men around ... not that anyone would mistake her for Mary or any other historic lady, since she’s wearing jeans and a sweatshirt, when she’s not in uniform.

I also think that the sight of me in shorts is less in the category of “occasion of lust” and more in the category of “Oh, dear ...” although my varicose veins might arouse some avarice in a cosmetic surgeon.


26 posted on 08/26/2011 2:56:59 PM PDT by Tax-chick ("There is only one remedy for ignorance and thoughtlessness, and that is literacy." R. Mitchell)
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To: Morgana

I did no such thing. I can see no reason why it is immodest for a female to wear short sleeve or sleeveless attire (not talking about tight low cut shirts) especially in very hot weather. If the sight of a pair of arms is gonnas intice lust then the problem is too deep rooted in the poor dweebs mind for any mode of dress to pass his muster.

Where is the article demanding that men guard their eyes?


27 posted on 08/26/2011 3:38:50 PM PDT by lastchance ("Nisi credideritis, non intelligetis" St. Augustine)
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To: the OlLine Rebel
Then your comment about clubs was specious.

My comment about clubs was exactly what I intended it to be: an illustration of the other end of the license spectrum. Enforced modesty by violence. I'll take skin-bearing licentiousness over Taliban oppression any day.

28 posted on 08/26/2011 4:15:55 PM PDT by IronJack (=)
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To: IronJack; Morgana
I'll take skin-bearing licentiousness over Taliban oppression any day.

What do you gain by posing this false dichotomy? We all know it's false, and that even in the Islamic world, most of the people of all periods have worn more clothes than are commonly covering the women in my Walmart or the girls in the local middle school, and less than those prescribed by today's extreme Islamists.

If you are expressing a preference for tiny shorts and cut-off tank tops over all other options - slacks and a crew-neck t-shirt, for example - why do you not do so openly, rather than proposing and then attacking rules for which nobody on the thread or in the article has expressed support?

We do understand that a great many males like to look at women dressed in few or no clothes, and that they often spend money, sometimes large amounts, to enjoy this activity.

29 posted on 08/26/2011 4:33:01 PM PDT by Tax-chick ("There is only one remedy for ignorance and thoughtlessness, and that is literacy." R. Mitchell)
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To: IronJack

Your comment implying that Catholic doctrine (e.g.) on dress automatically leads to clubbing people for violation is specious.

Moslems are different from Catholics. I don’t pretend they all end up the same.


30 posted on 08/26/2011 4:50:54 PM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: Morgana

You are so right on so many comments, Morgana. Girls today are just getting so many horrible messages from the media.

When I was a girl, in the 1950s and 1960s, there were quite a few restrictions on the way girls dressed and behaved. Between my mother and the sisters who taught me through 12 years of Catholic school, I learned the value of modesty and the sacredness of virginity. The young people of today have been left with a disgusting array of choices, and too few people — including their parents — are pointing them in the right direction.


31 posted on 08/26/2011 5:54:44 PM PDT by Bigg Red (Palin in 2012)
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To: IronJack

Look Iron

These are instructions for Catholics who wish to demonstrate love for God and Mary by following them. There were never any “Decency Police.”

I think these are awesome. You should see some of the inappropriate get ups women wear to court. If they would follow these guidelines, they would always be appropriately dressed.


32 posted on 08/26/2011 6:32:18 PM PDT by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: RoadTest

You obviously aren’t Catholic and your question is from second grade.


33 posted on 08/26/2011 6:33:11 PM PDT by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: yldstrk; IronJack; Bigg Red; All

“When I was a girl, in the 1950s and 1960s, there were quite a few restrictions on the way girls dressed and behaved. Between my mother and the sisters who taught me through 12 years of Catholic school, I learned the value of modesty and the sacredness of virginity. The young people of today have been left with a disgusting array of choices, and too few people — including their parents — are pointing them in the right direction.”

**************************************************************

Now did you all catch this? This is not “Decency Police” this is something that is taught to children when they are young. Okay I will give my parents credit they tried. However it is not till after I became Catholic and learned so much of the Virgin Mary (and still am) that I understand this. I can’t explain to you why it was the Blessed Virgin. I don’t care why. I only am grateful that God has taught me these things through her. I only wish I had learned and understood sooner before I made an a** of myself but hey I was young then. I am older and wiser now. Thanks be to God.


34 posted on 08/26/2011 7:15:34 PM PDT by Morgana (I don't speak much...............but when I do....)
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To: Marie

My husband always said the more a dress did NOT reveal, the more appealing a woman was. (Is it what can’t be seen that draws men to a woman?)


35 posted on 08/26/2011 7:27:28 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: RoadTest
Apparently you've forgotten the smackdown you received in 431 AD at the Council of Ephesus, Nestorius.

"And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" Luke 1:43

36 posted on 08/26/2011 9:03:32 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: Tax-chick
What do you gain by posing this false dichotomy?

The dichotomy isn't false. It merely represents two extremes on a continuum.

If you are expressing a preference for tiny shorts and cut-off tank tops ...

I am expressing no such preference. This thread isn't about my preferences in dress. It is about the preferences of some women and their rights to indulge those preferences, even over the objections of others.

We do understand that a great many males like to look at women dressed in few or no clothes ...

I'm not sure who "we" is, but your observation is true, if patently obvious and not particularly germane.

37 posted on 08/28/2011 8:40:31 AM PDT by IronJack (=)
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To: IronJack

Presenting two extremes - or any two points - as if they are the only points - “this” or “that,” leaving out everything else - is the definition of “false dichotomy.”

Nobody has challenged anyone’s “right” to wear what they choose. The discussion was about the moral (and taste) implications of various types of dress.

The rules of Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan are “not germane” to the issue of suggestions for appropriate dress for Christian women, although, for some reason, you wish to claim they are.


38 posted on 08/28/2011 9:03:23 AM PDT by Tax-chick ("True education is not an adjustment to the world, but a defense against the world.")
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To: RoadTest; Morgana
Mary was the mother of Jesus. Christ was with God in the beginning

Interesting, so are you saying that the two natures of Jesus Christ are separate? That He was not 100% man and 100% God?

39 posted on 09/08/2011 4:36:25 AM PDT by Cronos (www.forfiter.com)
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To: A.A. Cunningham

“Apparently you’ve forgotten the smackdown you received in 431 AD at the Council of Ephesus, Nestorius.
“And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?” Luke 1:43”

- - - or the one at the council of Trent that O.K.d the killing of “Protestants”.


40 posted on 09/08/2011 4:50:24 AM PDT by RoadTest (Organized religion is no substitute for the relationship the living God wants with you.)
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To: Cronos; RoadTest; All

“Mary was the mother of Jesus. Christ was with God in the beginning

Interesting, so are you saying that the two natures of Jesus Christ are separate? That He was not 100% man and 100% God?”

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The purpose of this thread is how the Virgin Mary was modest when she dressed and how more women should do the same! (esp at Mass where I see women wearing short shorts and tank tops) Is it too much to ask for people to stay on this subject? The purpose if this thread is for women to have a role model ie. Virgin Mary that does not have them dressing and acting like sluts. Most of these young girls have no idea what they are doing. They just imitate Britney, Paris, Lindsey, or whoever comes along next. They need to be taught better and need a better role model. Who better than the Virgin Mary? A woman of modesty, virginity, and purity.


41 posted on 09/08/2011 6:28:33 AM PDT by Morgana (I don't speak much...............but when I do....)
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To: Morgana
They need to be taught better and need a better role model. Who better than the Virgin Mary? A woman of modesty, virginity, and purity.

Good points.

And one who utterly trusted her Lord, her son, her God

42 posted on 09/08/2011 6:49:38 AM PDT by Cronos (www.forfiter.com)
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