Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

FIRST-PERSON: From decline to decision
Baptist Press ^ | 06/13/2011 | Ed Stetzer

Posted on 09/04/2011 5:24:05 PM PDT by SeekAndFind

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (BP)--It is time for the Southern Baptist Convention to move from denial to decision.

It has happened again. The SBC reported membership has declined, again. And, baptisms are at their lowest level in 60 years.

I remember the first time the membership declined, just a few years ago. I pointed out (based on data from LifeWay's now-retired statistician Cliff Tharp) that it was not an aberration, but a pattern. The 50-year membership trend was moving into negative territory.

"Put simply," I wrote in light of 2007 data, "membership may go up next year, but the trend points to the negative. It probably won't go up. But, even if it does, I believe we will have more declining than growing years over the next decade. Unless the trend changes, membership has peaked."

How did we respond? I remember how strongly these observations were denied. A segment of the SBC seemed to think closing our eyes or disputing the data would change our reality.

In 2008 when we were again faced with the data of a continuing trend, I noted, "Today we are facing a set of numbers to which we are not accustomed.... This year, I believe that our tipping point continues to tip. Unless things change, we are about to enter a time when we grow accustomed to decline and think back to the good ol' days of growth."

Following that report, there was a little less denial. Actually, more spoke up. Chuck Kelley, president of New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary, warned that Southern Baptists are in danger of entering a deep decline with all the accompanying problems.

Subsequently, the data for 2009 revealed no reversal.

Now, we can see four years in a row of statistics confirming a long-term trend of membership decline in the SBC. It is what it is.

It is time for the SBC to move from denial to decision. I am only echoing what others have said before: It is time for change in the SBC. But change, just for the sake of change, is not enough. We must ask, "What kind of change do we need?"

For me, as a missiologist and denominational servant, change needs to come in several places.

A need for Missio Dei

First, we need a renewed passion for churches to live on mission. We need to see the church not simply as an institution but as an agent of God's Kingdom-mission. Increasingly, people must recognize the church is a missionary body with a divine call to be a sign and instrument of God's Kingdom. In short, God is a sending God and we are a sent people.

A need for diversity

Second, we need a greater emphasis on ethnic diversity. We've been so Southern and so white for so long that the annual meetings look like a loaf of Wonder Bread. Our ideas of "reaching out" are less impressive than striving to create an intentionally multicultural family that reflects the population of heaven. Simply put, denominations will not embrace ethnic leaders without a plan and strategy to do so. The SBC Executive Committee is pressing in on this issue, and it is about time.

A need for a new generation

Third, we must have a plan to raise up a new generation, not just of leaders, but young people throughout the SBC. The oldest generation may indeed be the "Greatest," but it must not be our last. The SBC will not last forever based solely on the presence of its elder statesmen and women. Mentoring, where the younger learns from the elder, and reverse mentoring, where the elder learns from the younger, creates the kind of dynamics that perpetuate an effective denomination without the bloodletting of civil war.

A need for a renewal in church planting

Finally, we need more new churches in our convention. I'm thankful for the efforts of Kevin Ezell and the team at the North American Mission Board as they are taking bold steps to refocus on church planting. Even in the Bible Belt there are large segments of people who have not been and are not being reached with the Gospel. In our large cities one could surmise that so much "urban blight" is the result of a spiritual vacuum. In the lesser-evangelized parts of our own country are people who have been insulated from the Gospel in the most Gospel-saturated society in history. Only a vast movement of church planting across North America will see these people reached with the message of Jesus Christ.

Telling the truth has been controversial in SBC life. But facts are still our friends. The fact is, our denomination is struggling and needs to change. Yet, it is not the denomination that is "great," rather, it is that a denomination is a family of great churches. I love those churches and pray God will use them to advance His name and His fame. The denomination is the tool the churches use to accomplish the God-given goal.

When will change come? I don't know. Some will keep going as before -- considering slow decline as acceptable as long as they can keep doing church in a way they have grown to prefer. Some are content to successfully manage decline. Yet, for others, knowing that 2010 saw the fewest number of new believers going through the baptismal waters since Eisenhower was president will break their hearts. They will weep for the lost.

We don't change until the pain of staying the same grows greater than the pain of change. May the truth break our hearts, drive us to our knees and compel us into the mission.
--30--
Ed Stetzer is vice president of the research and ministry development division and missiologist in residence at LifeWay Christian Resources of the Southern Baptist Convention. He also has written the following analysis of the SBC statistics.

Analysis of SBC statistics
By Ed Stetzer

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (BP)--The numbers are out, again. They show decline, again. But what do they really mean?

The Annual Church Profile (ACP) numbers are actually not compiled by LifeWay Research, but are gathered by our executive communications and relations division in partnership with state conventions. We received the numbers Wednesday and decided some analysis might be helpful as we digest the changes the data reveals.

The biggest issue is a negative membership trend. As I see it, the greatest concern is not that we have 0.15 percent less members, but that it continues to reinforce a membership trend. Annual membership shifts happen regularly and have multiple causes.

Trends are what should concern us -- and the one that concerns us most is the trend of membership change from year to year. A year is not a trend, but we are looking at a 50-year negative trend in regard to membership growth/decline measured year to year.

Cliff Tharp, who has written a helpful book on SBC denominational statistics, led the ACP process for 35 years. He wrote a few years ago, "We have been slowing in our growth and have now passed into decline. We are right at the top of the arc and beginning to go down. But changes we make now can change that trend significantly. These stats are not new but it has never caught anyone's attention until now."

The "arc" to which Cliff refers is our total membership, as shown here:



But, the 50-year trend of membership change is, in our view, the greater concern. It shows that the SBC was growing rapidly in the 1950s, growing well in the '60s and '70s, growing slightly in the '80s and '90s, and then the decline started in the new millennium. The graph tells the story:



If this 50-year trend continues (and they generally do), the small declines we see now will become big declines in the years and decades to come.

Second, the baptism trend is disturbing and now a trend of decline. For several years, LifeWay Research tried not to indicate baptisms were "trending down." The reason for this is that shifts over a few years were not unusual over the 60-year picture. Thus, we were thinking (and hoping) that baptisms would "return to the mean," which is a statistical way of saying they will go back to normal -- and at this point that means "up." Last year's slight uptick gave many hope, but we sounded a cautious (though hopeful) note then.

Surely all Southern Baptists prayed this was not a trend and there would be a return to the mean. In light of last year's data, we are forced to reconsider that view.

In our professional judgment, it is now appropriate to say SBC baptisms are on a downward trend. The large decline this year has shifted the trend line down over the last several decades (notice how it slopes to the right -- it has not in past years). Thus, we must regrettably say baptisms are now trending toward decline.



We could easily create some "sensational" news with a new graph tracking baptisms since 2000. The picture would be dramatic (and truthful), but we are still hoping that this brief trend (a decade is not that long -- consider 1980 to 1988 and the subsequent reversal) will change direction. But for now, SBC membership is in decline, membership change is in a 50-year decline, and baptisms are in a decade-long decline and trending down over time.

The news is not good, but God is still in charge and Southern Baptists are a wonderful people with a passion for God, His Word, and sharing Christ. I have given thoughts elsewhere on what we should do; here I simply point to where we are. Facts are our friends and these facts should concern us. Yet, as Cliff Tharp said, "Changes we make now can change that trend significantly."


TOPICS: Current Events; Evangelical Christian; Ministry/Outreach; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: decision; decline; membership; southernbaptists
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-105 next last

1 posted on 09/04/2011 5:24:10 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

How are the Northern Baptists, the Western Baptists, and the Eastern Baptists faring?


2 posted on 09/04/2011 5:35:36 PM PDT by MIchaelTArchangel (Duval Patrick is a coward. Explain yourself on The O'Reilly Factor, you creep!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
Second, we need a greater emphasis on ethnic diversity. We've been so Southern and so white for so long that the annual meetings look like a loaf of Wonder Bread.

Don't get sucked in to this tar baby. Mainline protestant churches, which have been declining for a lot longer than the Baptists, have all pounced on this idea, only to come up absolutely empty.

Churches are a cultural phenomenon, accept it. Blacks will go to black churches no matter what you try to do to entice them into yours. Better to form local ecumenical alliances and joint social missions etc.

3 posted on 09/04/2011 5:36:13 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

As long as they don’t propose doing what the methodists, lutherans, and presbyterians have done.


4 posted on 09/04/2011 5:37:03 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
Well........

Missions, diversity, more church planting. I though Paul planted, Apollos watered but God gave the growth? Perhaps what is needed is more praying, more repenting and more time in God's word.

5 posted on 09/04/2011 5:38:16 PM PDT by HarleyD
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

Interesting that he emphasizes a need for “diversity.”


6 posted on 09/04/2011 5:39:24 PM PDT by wideawake
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: hinckley buzzard

Our baptist church has plenty of diversity. They make people of all races welcome and people of all races attend.


7 posted on 09/04/2011 5:40:43 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: MIchaelTArchangel

Who da? I lived in the North and never met a “Baptist” until I moved to Missouri.


8 posted on 09/04/2011 5:44:35 PM PDT by TaMoDee (GO PACK GO to Super Bowl XLVI)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

In other words, the Southern Baptist Convention is declining as it has embraced political correctness and liberalism. No one has much of an appetite for warmed over Unitarianism.

So, in response to this crisis, the religious establishment has decided that the solution is more liberalism and political correctness, which will only compounds its declining appeal, as we have seen with the Anglicans.


9 posted on 09/04/2011 5:45:44 PM PDT by WilliamHouston
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: MIchaelTArchangel

Don’t leave out the Seventh Day Baptists :mad:


10 posted on 09/04/2011 5:46:19 PM PDT by Jonty30
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: MIchaelTArchangel

The other 4 American Baptist conferences are looking at similar trends.


11 posted on 09/04/2011 5:49:21 PM PDT by wideawake
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: WilliamHouston

Amen to that.


12 posted on 09/04/2011 5:51:53 PM PDT by gramho12
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: WilliamHouston

Yeah, maybe they need to copy the ELCA and ordain gay pastors. How do you suppose that would work out?


13 posted on 09/04/2011 5:52:05 PM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: WilliamHouston

Yep, more “diversity” is not the problem.


14 posted on 09/04/2011 5:52:12 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: hinckley buzzard
I live in the heart of the Bible Belt, Memphis, Tn.

We even have billboards stating that the most segregated place in town in the Churches on Sunday Morning.

My church is mixed and so are the other large Baptist churches in town, but the Black's still mostly prefer their own brand of worship.

15 posted on 09/04/2011 5:52:53 PM PDT by Coldwater Creek (He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will rest in the shadow of the Almighty Psalm 91:)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: WilliamHouston

And more and more people are flocking to the Catholic Church because it is the one church that refuses to budge on these matters.

And, oh, did I mention that the media hates the Catholic Church because of it?

I live in a small parish in Oregon and we had 25 converts and people coming into full Communion with the Catholic Church

The Archdiocesan group this year was so large that it had to be broken up by parishes at the Cathedral for the Rite of Election — when the names of the converts are given to the Bishop.


16 posted on 09/04/2011 6:00:12 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver

Relatives in SC attend a mixed race evangelical church (not Baptist) and sing in the choir which is also mixed race.

They say that while at the church, there is mingling among the races, but if there is a choir social gathering at a white person’s home rather than at the church, the blacks will not attend.

Is this the case at your church?

Maybe it’s just a vestige of the old south.


17 posted on 09/04/2011 6:00:23 PM PDT by randita (Obama - chains you can bereave in.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: WilliamHouston

I forgot to say that there were three sessions of the Rite of Election. (And remember, this is Oregon!)


18 posted on 09/04/2011 6:01:35 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

Maybe the solution is to recognize that America has heard the Gospel, and largely rejected it. That we are responsible for telling the truth about the Good News, but NOT responsible for how many convert.

Maybe an expanding denomination in America isn’t likely to happen in post-Christian America, and we need to look to where the harvest is located...

Our responsibility is to focus on Jesus, not diversity. Pandering - as was done with the vote on immigration this year - is NOT the way to spread the Gospel.

Another idea: more church private schools to supplement home schooling.


19 posted on 09/04/2011 6:03:21 PM PDT by Mr Rogers ("they found themselves made strangers in their own country")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Vigilanteman

Yes, I have noticed a pattern here: ideas which are purely secular in origin like the worship of “anti-racism” and “multiculturalism” and “diversity” ... mysteriously become Christianity over time.

There is already a push going on for female priests and gay marriage now. This comes in spite of the fact that the Church of England is dead in Britain.

The church keeps bringing in every aspect of our rotten secular culture ... church services that have more in common with rock concerts than the Gospel ... and they sit around wondering why no one wants their denominations keep dying.

If I wanted to worship liberalism, I would watch the MSNBC prime time line up in my own living room.

Here in Alabama, the religious establishment in the Southern Baptist Convention is fighting for amnesty for illegal aliens. The same is true of the Methodists.

They are indistinguishable from the National Council of La Raza, the NAACP, the SPLC, the Chamber of Commerce, the Democratic Party.

No wonder they are declining.


20 posted on 09/04/2011 6:03:33 PM PDT by WilliamHouston
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver

As long as they don’t propose doing what the methodists, lutherans, and presbyterians have done.”

But the they are, and the author of this article is one of those pushing the changes. The SBC is now likely to self-destruct because of the group that gained control about two or three years ago. They claim to be inerrantists, but they are really cultural liberals. As the rank and file discover this, more churches will become independent, and, unless Stetzer and others are purged, the remaining churches will start looking like Mainline Protestant churches.


21 posted on 09/04/2011 6:04:38 PM PDT by achilles2000 ("I'll agree to save the whales as long as we can deport the liberals")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: hinckley buzzard

As a former pastor in an SBC church with many of my best friends being former SBC pastors, it’s sad to see our brethren continuing to miss the point.

If we as God’s people are walking in close relationship with Him, reflecting His character and nature in all that we do, both individually and collectively - others will be drawn to join us as they see and are attracted to Jesus.

But if we just change our programs, shift our focus, continue our emphasis on missions while failing to live the life of a missionary (kind of like liberals always declaring their purpose being to help the poor, but never helping the poor themselves as individuals), we will continue to die as a group.

All the proposed solutions are barking up the wrong tree and missing the real problem......


22 posted on 09/04/2011 6:05:32 PM PDT by Arlis (- Virginia loghome/woods-dweller/Jesus lovin'/Bible-totin'/"gun-clinger")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
Baptists have always been the strongest believers in the myth of the “separation of church and state.” They were the strongest supporters of Roe v Wade, in the beginning, and many are still today. They let politics decide their theology, rather that their God determine their morality - a lose-lose situation.
23 posted on 09/04/2011 6:07:56 PM PDT by jacknhoo (Luke 12:51. Think ye, that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, no; but separation.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: randita

There are some blacks who won’t attend outside of the sermon, but few. Those that attend generally love Jesus more than a skin color. That includes other events.


24 posted on 09/04/2011 6:10:50 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: MIchaelTArchangel
How are the Northern Baptists, the Western Baptists, and the Eastern Baptists faring?

Not as sanctimoniously as their Southern relatives.

25 posted on 09/04/2011 6:11:44 PM PDT by OldCorps
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: jacknhoo

I’m a Baptist and I let the Bible determine my morality.


26 posted on 09/04/2011 6:15:28 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

Two months ago was our last day worshipping in our SBC church because it was becoming more and more liberal. One Sunday morning in June, the teenagers were on the platform doing hip-hop dancing to promote the upcoming VBS. It was the choreography outlined on the CD in the Convention material for 2011 VBS. While the kids were gyrating, the head deacon’s wife was in the choir loft doing a kind of hand jive.

At Christmas, the special music was “The Little Drummer Boy”. When I mentioned it to our pastor, he said, “Well, it does refer to the baby Jesus in a way”; he thought it was absolutely fine.

They’re now using some goofy version of the Bible — Holman, I think. Pastor said they use it ‘cause it’s easier for people to understand. I guess before Holman was published, the Holy Spirit wasn’t powerful enough to convict people via the pesky KJV.

They’ve tossed the traditional hymns and brought in a “hymnal” with the contemporary choruses. I mentioned this to the pastor and he said, “Well, I have to tell you that we’re going to go more in that direction quickly.”

SBC’s platform on amnesty is unacceptable. “It asks government officials to support ‘a just and compassionate path to legal status, with appropriate restitutionary measures, for those undocumented immigrants already living in our country.’ The vision for a path toward legal status mirrors what President Barack Obama has offered as he’s urged support for immigration reform.”

Now we’re attending an independent Baptist church and are happy there.


27 posted on 09/04/2011 6:20:24 PM PDT by MayflowerMadam ("I know that God's tomorrow will be better than today!" A. H. Ackley)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

Yes I agree with the other posters that “embracing diversity” is not the answer.

Better to adhere to your tenets of faith (and culture!) and be smaller than accomodate the world - in which case you’ll end up smaller anyway and will have lost your faith.

I would argue that the decline in influence/numbers of the SBC is more related to the decline of white, middle class Christian culture in society at large. After all, aren’t we taught in school that ghetto culture is just as good, if not superior, to the WMCC that built America into a great nation?

It saddens me, given that I grew up in the SBC. But from what I hear I don’t know that if I randomly wandered into an SBC church I would recognize the services of my youth anyway.


28 posted on 09/04/2011 6:21:44 PM PDT by jtal (Runnin' a World in Need with White Folks' Greed - since 1492)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: hinckley buzzard; Coldwater Creek

It is the Hispanics they want to court.


29 posted on 09/04/2011 6:22:31 PM PDT by PastorBooks
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: randita

If one of the Blacks in your chorus were to hold a social gathering, would the whites attend it at his or her house? Perhaps there is an abcess that needs puncturing.


30 posted on 09/04/2011 6:23:50 PM PDT by mdmathis6 (Christ came not to make mankind into God but to put God into men!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: jacknhoo

“They were the strongest supporters of Roe v Wade, in the beginning, and many are still today. “

????????????????????????????????

Not in any SBC congregation I’ve ever been in...


31 posted on 09/04/2011 6:27:26 PM PDT by Mr Rogers ("they found themselves made strangers in their own country")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: HarleyD

Amen.......! How bout just returning to God’s word and leaving all the silly theories written by men alone.


32 posted on 09/04/2011 6:29:24 PM PDT by swampfox101
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: MayflowerMadam
Now we’re attending an independent Baptist church and are happy there.

Your story reads exactly the same as ours does. Thank you so much for sharing.

33 posted on 09/04/2011 6:29:38 PM PDT by southernsunshine
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: HarleyD

Amen.......! How bout just returning to God’s word and leaving all the silly theories written by men alone.


34 posted on 09/04/2011 6:29:38 PM PDT by swampfox101
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: HarleyD

Amen.......! How bout just returning to God’s word and leaving all the silly theories written by men alone.


35 posted on 09/04/2011 6:29:38 PM PDT by swampfox101
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

Most of the ones I have seen have become pretty irrelevant.

They are more interested in their useless traditions than in what is really important.


36 posted on 09/04/2011 6:31:38 PM PDT by webstersII
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: swampfox101

bttt


37 posted on 09/04/2011 6:31:45 PM PDT by Recovering_Democrat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Mr Rogers

On Thirty Years Of Roe V. Wade
http://www.sbc.net/resolutions/amResolution.asp?ID=1130


38 posted on 09/04/2011 6:33:17 PM PDT by jacknhoo (Luke 12:51. Think ye, that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, no; but separation.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: MayflowerMadam

The Holman translation was made by and is owned by Southern Baptists. Good info here:

http://www.bible-researcher.com/csb.html

I prefer the ESV or NASB myself.


39 posted on 09/04/2011 6:34:05 PM PDT by Mr Rogers ("they found themselves made strangers in their own country")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver

I am also, and we are an ornary lot. We belong to the SBC, but we call the shots in our church. We hire our pastors, select our Deacons and decide what songbooks, Sunday school study guides and what type of music we use. The SBC does not “tell” us what to do.

We have many Hispanics, a few Blacks and some other races who regularly attend our services. I hate the word “diversity” because of what it has come to mean. The current use of the word is a poison pill.


40 posted on 09/04/2011 6:38:54 PM PDT by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: jacknhoo

The problem with SBC resolutions is that they have no meaning or sway in the congregations.

For example, the illegal immigration vote passed on a vote of 766-723 (1,489) out of 44,000 delegates present. So a 43 vote margin out of 1489 cast out of 44,000...the resolutions only reflect what the ‘leadership’ is trying to pass, not what anyone in the pews believes.

They DO, however, reflect on the spiritual blindness of what passes for leadership in the SBC. I’ve been in mostly SBC congregations for 30 years, but I feel no loyalty to the denomination itself. If all other things were equal, I’d prefer to be in an independent congregation.


41 posted on 09/04/2011 6:40:46 PM PDT by Mr Rogers ("they found themselves made strangers in their own country")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Texas Fossil

The church is under attack, no surprises.


42 posted on 09/04/2011 6:41:19 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: MayflowerMadam; All

A lot of the “teachers and leaders” at some of the SBC churches I have visited seem to be into Tony Campolo big time....especially those who are somewhat recent grads of protestant seminaries...and are generally in the 25 to 40 age group. I have watched as memberships have started to decline in these same churches and that leadership has suddenly become feckless in dealing with interpersonal issues that have arisen. I see many homosexuals attempting to put themselves into positions of authority in some of these churches(though if penitent and celibate I have no issues but there is a tendency to attempt to blunt the harder truths of faith when these folk teach).

“We must become more ‘missional’ and ‘socially inclusive’ is the hue and cry but some how passion regarding the “power in the BLOOD of the LAMB” has been lost; the older members have become uneasy and the kids see thru the PC sharade and want nothing to do with it!


43 posted on 09/04/2011 6:42:04 PM PDT by mdmathis6 (Christ came not to make mankind into God but to put God into men!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: jacknhoo
Baptists have always been the strongest believers in the myth of the “separation of church and state.”

Where did you read that? The Baptists in the U.S. were "strong" supporters of the freedom of religion and against the "establishment" of a state religion. FACT. That came to a head in the House of Burgesses in Virginia, over the issue of the Anglican Church interfering with when they worshipped and taxing to support the state church. James Madison addressed this and after the laws were changed the Baptists were some of his strongest supporters.

44 posted on 09/04/2011 6:46:30 PM PDT by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: hinckley buzzard
Interesting you should mention joint social missions. About 20 years ago when I lived in Northern Virginia the deacons and men's club of a black Baptist church in south Arlington decided to try and roust the crack dealers who were appearing in fair numbers in their community. They would do this by conducting citizen patrols and ‘peacefully confronting’ the street dealers by asking them to move on and by keeping a constant presence on the streets at night. Arlington PD contributed a car phone that was drop wired to the ops center. I called the church to ask if paleface Baptists were welcome. They were and I did some liaison and then approached my and my parent's church and presented the opportunity to help some fellow Baptists deal with a problem in their community. The results were the same as when about three years later when both my parents came down with dementia I asked our deacon what sort of elder outreach the church ad. In both cases the deacons and pastor after a couple platitudes said in effect ‘our members and deacons are too busy to be bothered this being DC where everyone has a career not a job.’
These two experiences ended by connection with that church and so far Baptists of any stripe. I did patrol with the black Baptists for the four months the patrol lasted. They were good guys, more politically liberal than me but culturally it was like being back in 1956 again. I also got several very good dinners from the experience. If my experiences are typical it is not surprising the SBC is stagnant.
45 posted on 09/04/2011 6:52:33 PM PDT by robowombat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
At my Southern Baptist Church, baptisms have been up for the last 3-4 years, we have almost doubled our membership and our youth is active in outreach programs for the community. I think the "secret" is preaching from the Book and getting involved with missions. For example, the Sunday school class that I teach has been mailing Bibles to the underground house churches in China, lately we have added sending Bibles in farsi to Iran.

This does not mean that all is well. The world is trying really hard to infiltrate the church. A couple of years ago we had to fight the "purpose driven" fad from staking a claim in our church. And, just earlier today, my son was very upset when he got his new Sunday school book and found quite a bit of politically correct nonsense in it! But we will continue to run the race with endurance, looking to Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith (Heb. 12:1)

46 posted on 09/04/2011 6:57:03 PM PDT by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Salvation
And more and more people are flocking to the Catholic Church because it is the one church that refuses to budge on these matters.

Odd, before the last decade the local Catholic church was almost dead here. Illegal immigration basically is what has flocked to our local congregation. The Catholic church not only has budged on it's illegal's position, to just plain campaigning for open borders basically. Alabama's new immigration law was sued the other day by such Catholic policy.

John 10:1 -- He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold but climbeth up another way, the same is a thief and a robber.

47 posted on 09/04/2011 6:57:44 PM PDT by LowOiL ("Abomination" sure sounds like "ObamaNation" to me.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Arlis
Word count in article:

spirit = 0
holy spirit = 0
holy = 0

I cannot imagine why people don't go the see/hear the show on Sunday.

Its happening everywhere regardless of denomination.

schu

48 posted on 09/04/2011 7:00:17 PM PDT by schu
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

A few years ago many SBC churches got into Rick Warren and his ideas (we all had our “40 Days of Purpose” programs). Many of them (such as the one I attend) perceived the devil’s hand in the sock puppet and dropped all associations with Warren. The ones that didn’t are turning squishy.

As long as the leadership lets Jesus lead rather than the Warrens of the world the SBC will prosper. Overall numbers may drop, just due to demographics, but individual churches that obey the Lord will prosper. The goal, afterall, is not to increase the number of butts in the seats - it should be to lead people to salvation and equip them to serve in the Kingdom. SBC churches remain independent so the leadership in each individual church sets the direction for that church.

As for “diversity” initiatives: we reach out to families of all races. If, however, my pastor would come out and make it a goal to increase minority attendance I would find another church. The fact is, and always will be, that people will worship where they are most comfortable, and people by and large are more comfortable with people like themselves.


49 posted on 09/04/2011 7:03:03 PM PDT by Some Fat Guy in L.A. (Need a new tagline - Bucs are better this year)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver
The church is under attack, no surprises.

Yep, it has been under attack since Christ. And will be until he comes again. He warned us that the path was not easy. But I have read the last of "the Book" and know who will ultimately win, it is not our enemies.

50 posted on 09/04/2011 7:10:51 PM PDT by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-105 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson