Posted on 09/05/2011 3:24:17 PM PDT by Alex Murphy
The Justice for Immigrants campaign of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops is urging priests across the nation to incorporate petitions, prayers and homilies into Sunday Masses on September 25 in support of passage of the DREAM Act. The bill, first introduced in 2001, would provide a path to citizenship for some illegal immigrants.
The Justice for Immigrants campaign has also issued an invitation to plan a vigil or public event between Sept. 18 - Oct. 9 in support of our DREAM students and youth and offers a sample agenda and elements of a powerful event to assist in planning.
First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.
Pastor Martin Niemöller
Community and individuality are not opposites. People cannot survive on their own. When the odds are stacked against you, you must rally with the oppressed and hated.
When a growing oppressive regime is taking hold, you must act, otherwise you will soon face your enemy alone and hopeless.
Strength of community is a strength as much as individualism, as long you are willing to face weaknesses in your own community. Ignoring slacking values will mean that you will be rallied against by those you oppress.
Niemöller affirms we must rally against unhealthy organized regimes. We must also stay vigilant with those that appear to be good natured, as all organisation attracts corruption. Niemöller also warns us that if it is you who are corrupt, then you will face a stronger combined force of foe!
Vexen Crabtree
Again you distort the issue.
This is not about government coming after certain groups within it’s own country to silence them in order to increase their totalitarian hold on the country and nobody can then oppose them.
This is about a nation’s inherent right to control their own immigration policy.
You have a hard time making apples to apples comparisons, at least on this particular topic.
I am against illegal immigration, but I have nothing against someone who does it the right way and becomes a naturalized citizen through study and testing, etc.
What about you?
"....in recent years, state-level efforts have been made across the country to bar undocumented young adults from the benefits of in-state tuition breaks for higher education. This is bad public policy for several reasons....SB 170, if enacted, will require that any individual receiving in- state tuition must have attended a Colorado public or private high school for three years....students who meet these significant and verifiable standards, and qualify for in-state tuition, will not be required to verify lawful presence in the United States."
-- Archbishop Chaput, from the thread Denver Archbishop Supports Tuition Equity [Chaput favors extending in-state tuition to illegals]
....if a stranger dwells with you in your land, you shall not mistreat him.The locus of attention in the above verse is on the behavior of (existing) residents of the land. That same Mosaic Law demanded that all the Israelite laws apply to anyone and everyone occupying land within Israel's borders. In other words, once the theoretical stranger "dwells with you in your land" i.e. sets foot inside Israel's borders (legally or illegally), the native Israelite was not to mistreat him - instead, the native Israelite was expected to hold him subject to all of Israel's laws (including any that might govern citizenship and government handouts), just as he himself would be. The "stranger within your gates" would also be expected to know those laws for himself....
The stranger who dwells among you shall be to you as one born among you, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
-- Leviticus 19: 33-34
...when all Israel comes to appear before the LORD your God in the place which He chooses, you shall read this law before all Israel in their hearing.The question that the "love your neighbor" crowd needs to answer is what constitutes "love your neighbor" behavior when confronted with a lawbreaking stranger within your gates?
Gather the people together, men and women and little ones, and the stranger who is within your gates, that they may hear and that they may learn to fear the LORD your God and carefully observe all the words of this law,
and that their children, who have not known it, may hear and learn to fear the LORD your God as long as you live in the land which you cross the Jordan to possess.
-- Deuteronomy 31:11-13
I am for legal immmigration.
I am totally against illegal immigration.
I am for strong border enforcement and returning found illegals back into their home countries unless they are criminals and need to be tried for crimes here.
I am also for strengthening our immigration laws and actually having a government that enforces these laws.
I would even say that, in deference to Mexico, I’d be happy to implement Mexico’s immigration laws here. So that the charge of racism couldn’t be leveled at us.
I disagree that the Catholic voter's position on abortion should be decided out of an interest in creating more American Catholics by demography. It should rather be about Jesus Christ, justice and the divine moral law.
But this is false:
Opposition to the dream act is being treated worse than being in favor of abortion.
The Catholic Church in the United States has inserted Roe v. Wade on its liturgical calendar--January 22, National Day of Penance. This is a singular event in recent Catholic history. Nothing similar has been done for any other issue. I have heard of Catholic politicians in some (albeit, too few) places being denied Communion for supporting abortion, but never have I heard of one being denied Communion for his immigration views.
You have to remember that half of all practicing Catholics in the United States are Hispanic. Our bishops are doing a very poor job pretending to "represent" a half-Hispanic, and half-Anglo caucus, and it is foremost a poor job because it is not their job. Bishops are actually supposed to be encouraging the faithful to support laws which are just and fair for everyone, not just laws that happen to serve the interests of the population of Church-going Catholics. "Catholic" is not an ethnic group.
Now, granted, America's legal immigration policy is unjust and economically and culturally suicidal. (For one thing, millions of birthright American citizens born to legal residents are being raised abroad, to be allowed to return only after they turn 18, because their parents couldn't get a visa extension. If you want to have birthright citizenship, you should make provision for raising American citizens as Americans, and not as foreigners in overseas schools, even though they might get a better education that way. For another thing, we have our ethnic diversity lottery...)
But every country on earth punishes illegal immigration by deportation. It is the only penalty which actually fits and properly deters that offense. If anything, the injustice actually addressed by the DREAM Act is the failure of the American government to deport illegals over the past thirty years since the "one-time" Reagan amnesty. If they had been promptly deported, they wouldn't have grown up here.
The USCCB isn't the Vatican, and they aren't a Vatican mouthpiece. They're supposed to represent the (collective) views of the American bishops. Notice I said "supposed to".
And for them to tell priests (they don't have the authority to order it, mind you) to lobby in their homilies for a particular piece of legislation on anything but a pivotal, life-related issue is going way over the line, IMO.
Agree with you, although I do think we need to treat all humans with love. Yes, I know it’s difficult with some.
Good point.
I think this relates here. I see there's a big push to make the DREAM Act synonymous with "mercy". And a related push to make law enforcment (e.g. barring illegal aliens from cashing in on benefits) synonymous with INjustice.
A good case can be made that enticing a person to break a law is one way we participate in their wrongdoing. Incentivizing people to violate our borders by rewarding them and their children with a big package of material payoffs, is certainly enticing a person to sin.
Wha's stoping people from going BACK to the country where they are still legal citizens, and then coming here again legally? And what's wrong with insisting that they come here the right way, the same as all other immigrants?
That is not a merciless pisition. That is equal justice under law.
USCCB has yet to comment on Catholic vp Biden’s support of China’s obnoxious one child policy while speaking in China.But they give full support to this ridiculous ‘Dream Act’.Is th USCCB an arm of the Democratic party?
....A good case can be made that enticing a person to break a law is one way we participate in their wrongdoing. Incentivizing people to violate our borders by rewarding them and their children with a big package of material payoffs, is certainly enticing a person to sin.
Wha's stoping people from going BACK to the country where they are still legal citizens, and then coming here again legally? And what's wrong with insisting that they come here the right way, the same as all other immigrants?
Ping to my post #27
The first requirement of love is justice. Some may say "Love is a whole lot more than justice"; but very often the 'love' we see is a whole lot less.
It doesn't benefit anyone, citizen, sojourner, legal or illegal, to live in a country where trespass is encouraged, fraud is condoned, poor men are systematically enticed into lawbreaking with the promise of material gain, the politicians, police, and courts don't enforce the law efficiently and evenhandedly, and essential institutions are approaching breakdown and bankruptcy.
Liberty under law is the foundation of public justice. And Justice is the way a political community expresses love.
All that would be necessary for a repatriation of the illegal immigrants is to eliminate the inducements to their being here. The exact same forces that brought them here would cause them to return.
What many of you don't, can't or refuse to understand is that once here illegals are entitled to the same constitutional protections as anyone else within the jurisdiction of the US by virtue of the 14th Amendment.
Sounds a whole lot like another Catholic supporting the DREAM Act to me.
You are right. Mexicans are untermensch and not deserving of basic human and constitutional rights. They should be rounded up, worked until nearly dead and then exterminated. (Think of all the gold teeth) It worked so well for you guys in the past. [sarc].
Most Mexicans I know are honest, hard working, God fearing, family oriented and very conservative. I would much rather have them in my neighborhood than the sniveling, whining, home grown semi-literate bigots one finds so frequently in these forums.
You are right. Mexicans are untermensch and not deserving of basic human and constitutional rights. They should be rounded up, worked until nearly dead and then exterminated. (Think of all the gold teeth) It worked so well for you guys in the past. [sarc].
Most Mexicans I know are honest, hard working, God fearing, family oriented and very conservative. I would much rather have them in my neighborhood than the sniveling, whining, home grown semi-literate bigots one finds so frequently in these forums.
You could always move south of the border into their neighborhoods, just to maximize your experience.
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