Skip to comments.Lefebvrians say they will never accept Vatican Council [Catholic Caucus]
Posted on 09/09/2011 4:27:39 PM PDT by NYer
Before a key meeting in Rome, the leader of the traditionalists stressed that he was not prepared to make any compromises and also revealed some interesting behind the scenes happenings
If their aim is still to force us to accept the second Vatican Council, the discussions have been clear enough in showing that we have no intention of doing any such thing.
These were the decisive but prudent words of Bernard Fellay, who was adamant he would not agree to any compromise with the Vatican. On the 15 August, Fellay spoke openly about the talks between the Lefebvrians and the Holy See during the summer University of the Society of St. Pius X, fonde by Monsignor Lefebvre.
The transcription of the public interview with the Lefebvrian superior, held by the Societys press agent, the abbot Alain Lorans, was published a few days ago, on the eve of the meeting in Rome between Fellay and Cardinal William Levada, Prefect of the Vatican Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which should encapsulate two years of doctrinal talks between Rome and the traditionalists.
The Lefebvrian superiors judgement on the discussions was anything but friendly: They are not beneficial right now because there is a clash of mentalities In any case, we are certainly not in agreement. If there is one thing we agree on, that is that we do not agree on anything.
Monsignor Fellay, one of the Societys four bishops, ordained against Romes will by Monsignor Lefebvre and whose excommunication was removed by Benedict XVI in 2009, called for extreme prudence in terms of their relationship with the Vatican, especially in view of next weeks meeting, of which he said he did not know what to expert.
The removal of Fellays excommunication, which also meant Monsignor Richard Williamson, an English bishop undergoing trial in Germany for denying the existence of gas chambre and the dimensions of the Holocaust, did not improve the Brotherhoods position. The Society is not recognised by Rome and its ordinations, which have carried on over the years despite the ban imposed by bishops and the Vatican, are considered illegal by the Church.
If the Society of St. Pius X i sto be recognised, the Vatican Secretary of State said in December 2009, they absolutely must recognise the Council and the teachings of John XXIII, Paul VI, John Paul I, John Paul II and Benedict XVI himself.
People must not believe everything they hear, the traditionalist superior told his followers. For example the rumours going round about Cardinal Levada making a pro position to the Brotherhood to allow it to entre into communion with the Holy See once again: On what conditions? Fellay asked himself, the way I see it, there must be certain conditions.
He went on to say that there are those who say that up until now, they (the Vatican, editors note) have always tried to shove the Council down our throats. I dont know. All I am saying is: We are moving on. We have our principles, above all faith Without faith God can never like you, so our decisioni s made. Faith comes first, no matter what, it even comes before recognition by the Church. We need to be strong.
During the long interview, Fellay also revealed nemerous behind the scenes facts relating to the difficult but ongoing relations between the Vatican and the Brotherhood in recent years. A figure which stood out was Colombian cardinal Dario Castrillon Hoyos, formerly president of the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei, in charge of improving relations with the traditionalists. Even after his retirement, when the former Holy Office took the Commission under its wing as was requested by Benedict XVI, the cardinal seems to have stayed in close contact with Fellay, keeping him up to date with what was going on in the Vatican.
Fellay also explained how the arrival of Pope Ratzinger on the papal throne set something off in the Vatican, changing the winds in favour of the traditionalists and opening the way for their potential reintegration: However, thinking about it and as far asthe person himself is concerned, the mood has certainly changed. Even in the Vatican, his arrival gave courage to those who, calling themselves conservatives, were forced to hide.
Still, with the revocation of excommunications and the Williamson case in 2009, relations became more tense: in June that year, Fellay claims he tried desperately to meet with the Vatican Secretary of State, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, but in vain. The traditionalist superior was diverted to the Prefect of the Congregation of the Doctrine for the Faith, cardinal Levada.
Lefebvres successor, underlined more than once the divisions that esiste inside the Vatican Curia and warned that any news arriving from Rome should be taken with a pinch of salt. Fellay used the example of an Augustinian monk who was excommunicated and espelle from Rome having converted to Monsignor Lefebvres society.
“On what conditions? Fellay asked himself, the way I see it, there must be certain conditions.
Obedience, Fellay, is a virtue.
If you are willing to accept papal authority in rescinding the excommunication, than you must also accept the Councils. That’s the only way this works.
Stay strong with the great Tradition of the Latin Mass!
How do we what is true and what is not in this piece? Havent we all figured out that there are people on both “sides” who want to see the division continue? Was it on SSPX website?
“Obedience, Fellay, is a virtue.
If you are willing to accept papal authority in rescinding the excommunication, than you must also accept the Councils. Thats the only way this works.”
A common attribute of all the great saints was their OBEDIENCE to the Church. They obeyed and placed their TRUST in God.
You’re right, of course. All those who believe in VII teachings are in error, including the Pope Paul VI through the present Pope, who all acknowledged the validity of VII. It’s up to “traditional Catholics” like yourself to put on your papal hats and decide what is really Catholic.
Very good. Vatican II was not in error. The aftermath, coupled with the free love / free drug / free Marxist 1960's was. This Pope appears to be putting the screws to the USCCB and getting it back into the traces. We shall have the new/old liturgy and the eventual preponderance of TLM. God has given us better than we deserve in BXVI and we pray that his eventual successor be even more in accord with Him (although I was pulling for him, I never expected him to be so great - just imagine if our next Pope is even greater).
“How so? Holding fast to Traditional Catholicism is to be Catholic, no?”
Traditional Catholicism isn’t sedevacantist.
“I never expected him to be so great - just imagine if our next Pope is even greater).”
I knew that when the enemy was calling him the Panzerkardinel that we had a good one. :)
I love that knickname, I find it so fitting to him. He’s a warrior.
“Traditional Catholicism isnt sedevacantist.”
You are right. Neither is the SSPX.
Yawn. Your strawman arguments are boring.
Regarding the "strawman", I don't see it.I understand. Blindness happens. Sad.
Here is an example for you:
You, pope Narses, have decided that you will determine which teachings are valid and which are not. You apparently know better than the Magisterium who formulated said teachings. Revel in your power!Yawn. More boring strawmen.
A common attribute of all the great saints was their OBEDIENCE to the Church. They obeyed and placed their TRUST in God.Well, not all. St. Athanasius
In 355 a council was held at Milan, where in spite of the vigorous opposition of a handful of loyal prelates among the Western bishops, a fourth condemnation of Athanasius was announced to the world. With his friends scattered, the saintly Hosius in exile, the Pope Liberius denounced as acquiescing in Arian formularies, Athanasius could hardly hope to escape. On the night of 8 February, 356, while engaged in services in the Church of St. Thomas, a band of armed men burst in to secure his arrest (Apol. de Fuga, 24). It was the beginning of his third exile.Far from obedient, Athanasius fled into exile, again. Obedience to the TRUTH is always essential. Obedience to men who are fallible is not. Ask St. Joan of Arc.
I am accused here of holding myself out as Pope. Sedevecantism is also being flung about. (An odd contradiction, for if I am claiming to be Pope - and I am not, how is the Chair Vacant?)
I solicit your comments, corrections and charitable admonitions here, if you are so inclined.
“pope Narses” is not a “strawman”. It is sarcasm. Perhaps my sarcasm hurt your feelings. If so, I again apologize.