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Psalms 83 represent the 10 nations against Israel during the Tribulation
Psalms 83 | 2011 | bibletruth

Posted on 09/14/2011 1:02:33 AM PDT by bibletruth

Psalms 83 represent the 10 nations against Israel during the Tribulation. Far too many people incorrectly identify the 10 kingdoms in Revelation 17 as the revised Roman empire; but if you study carefully an ancient map of the middle east, you will clearly see that all 10 of these nations surrounding Israel.


TOPICS: Mainline Protestant; Theology
KEYWORDS: dispynutcases; endtimesmadness; endtimesskooks; fundiekooks; psalm83; psalms83; religiousfundies; religiouskooks
Psalms 83 represent the 10 nations against Israel during the Tribulation. Far too many people incorrectly identify the 10 kingdoms in Revelation 17 as the revised Roman empire; but if you study carefully an ancient map of the middle east, you will clearly see that all 10 of these nations surrounding Israel. The old Roman empire DOES NOT surround Israel. Nowhere in scripture does the scriptures say that a european kingdom (even hidden in mystery) say: Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance.

Revelation 17:12: And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

The 10 kingdoms of Revelation 17 are enumerated in Psalms 83:6-8:

Psalms 83:6: The tabernacles of Edom, and the Ishmaelites; of Moab, and the Hagarenes;

Psalms 83:7: Gebal, and Ammon, and Amalek; the Philistines with the inhabitants of Tyre;

Psalms 83:8: Assur also is joined with them

Dwelling in the south, Edom has been the traditional enemy of Israel. Moab is directly across the Salt Sea. The Ishmaelites went on to control the vast region north of Havilah stretching from Shur before Egypt northwest towards Assyria. The Hagarenes inhabit the land east of Gilead. Gebal is north of Edom. Ammon is an enemy east of Jericho. Ammon and Amalek were both inveterate foes of Israel. Philistines are on the mediteranean seaside from Jerusalem (Gaza area), Tyre is on the northern mediteranean seaside. They were both denounced for hostile conduct against Israel. Assur [Assyria] is the destroyer of the northern kingdom of Israel.

It is impossible for any european kingdom to fit the exactitude of location and hatred for traditional Israel throughout the Old Testament period of Israel's enemies. This is not to say that european nations will not be involved under the Satanic control of the Anti-Christ during the Tribulation period, but it excludes european kingdoms from being historically identified as ancient nations and ancient enemies of Israel inside the Old Testament.

The context can be seen enumerated within the first 8 verses. This is a prophetic scenario, not an historical account of a past historical fulfillment.

Psalms 83:1: Keep not thou silence, O God: hold not thy peace, and be not still, O God.

Psalms 83:2: For, lo, thine enemies make a tumult: and they that hate thee have lifted up the head.

Psalms 83:3: They have taken crafty counsel against thy people, and consulted against thy hidden ones.

Psalms 83:4: They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance.

Psalms 83:5: For they have consulted together with one consent: they are confederate against thee:

Psalms 83:6: The tabernacles of Edom, and the Ishmaelites; of Moab, and the Hagarenes;

Psalms 83:7: Gebal, and Ammon, and Amalek; the Philistines with the inhabitants of Tyre;

Psalms 83:8: Assur also is joined with them: they have holpen the children of Lot. Selah.

1 posted on 09/14/2011 1:02:37 AM PDT by bibletruth
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To: bibletruth

If you can save us all some in-depth research.....what do those 10 kingdoms translate to on today’s world map? Which current countries, in other words?


2 posted on 09/14/2011 2:24:09 AM PDT by RightOnline
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To: bibletruth; Alamo-Girl; Amityschild; AngieGal; AnimalLover; Ann de IL; aposiopetic; aragorn; ...

Ping to the END TIMES LIST to the OP


3 posted on 09/14/2011 2:49:28 AM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: RightOnline
"...what do those 10 kingdoms translate to on today’s world map?"

Hmm, let's see:
Syria, Turkey, Jordan, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Gaza, Lebanon, and um, Bosco.

4 posted on 09/14/2011 3:56:49 AM PDT by Psalm 73 ("Gentlemen, you can't fight in here - this is the War Room".)
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To: Psalm 73

You forgot Trashcanistan, I believe. A common error.


5 posted on 09/14/2011 4:06:31 AM PDT by RightOnline
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To: RightOnline

And the Corleone and Barzinni Families.


6 posted on 09/14/2011 4:08:37 AM PDT by Vermont Lt (Ok, just to review. Here is a list of things that are NOT rights: A home, Health care, and a job.)
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To: RightOnline
Google found this map: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d2/Kingdoms_around_Israel_830_map.svg/250px-Kingdoms_around_Israel_830_map.svg.png

Tyre was a city in Lebanon.

7 posted on 09/14/2011 4:19:46 AM PDT by Pecos (Constitutionalist. Liberty and Honor will not die on my watch.)
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To: bibletruth
bibletruth sayeth: Far too many people incorrectly identify the 10 kingdoms in Revelation 17 as the revised Roman empire...

Question: could you give us a few examples of those who incorrectly ID the 10 kingdoms as the revised Roman Empire?

8 posted on 09/14/2011 4:30:31 AM PDT by fatboy (This protestant will have no part in the ecumenical movement)
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To: fatboy
Standard Dispensational eschatology identifies the revived Roman Empire of end times as the current nations located in the ancient Roman area of control. Most are European.

Think Walvoord, Ep, Scholfield, Chafer, authors like LaHaye,and Lindsey.

9 posted on 09/14/2011 4:54:30 AM PDT by hfr (Liberalism is a moral disorder that leads to mental disorder (actually it's sin))
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To: hfr

hfr, thank you. One other concern. In Daniel ch 9 we find that the man of sin comes from those who destroy the city (Jerusalem) and the sactuary (the Temple). In my opinionin it is easy to see that this would be an individual from the old Romand empire.

In Psalms 83, there are 10 designations mentioned, some of them are countries, for example Moab, some are ethnic groups example Ishmaelites. How does one make the theological connection between the man of sin (coming from the old roman empire) and these 10 people groups/geographical areas located in the middle east?


10 posted on 09/14/2011 5:18:28 AM PDT by fatboy (This protestant will have no part in the ecumenical movement)
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To: Quix; bibletruth; Alamo-Girl; Amityschild; AngieGal; AnimalLover; Ann de IL; aposiopetic; ...
I would suggest more study to include Daniels image. Those can not be the ten Kingdoms. At no time will Israel be dwelling safely while those nations are surrounding it. Ezekiel 38-39 shows that Israel is feeling rather safe prior to that battle.

Ezekiel 38:11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,

The battle of Ezekiel 38 includes Gog which is not in Psalm 83. The battle of Ezekiel 38 will occur before the tribulation because the Anti Christ declares peace at the beginning of the tribulation period and he is in control of all those nations at that point.

The nations listed in Psalm 83 will have been defeated prior to the tribulation and prior to the battle of Ezekiel 38 so cannot be the 10 nations.

11 posted on 09/14/2011 5:35:05 AM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: fatboy
For what it is worth, I think prophecy is most often easily understood in hindsight.

I particularly apply that to eschatological prophecy. If one reads the prophecies in Isaiah about the Lord how can one understand ahead of time how they would be fulfilled. But in hindsight it becomes possible.

The one thing I learn for sure from prophecy is how little I know about anything.

So I can't answer your question other than to say that the personalities will be revealed in due time. And no doubt they will be surprising and at the same time just exactly what prophecy said.

So I think the details must wait, not knowable ahead of time. And that the point of prophecy is to make us aware of the judgments of a righteous God in order to persuade us to cling to Christ.

Sorry I couldn't give a better answer.

12 posted on 09/14/2011 5:59:00 AM PDT by hfr (Liberalism is a moral disorder that leads to mental disorder (actually it's sin))
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To: hfr; GiovannaNicoletta
So I think the details must wait, not knowable ahead of time.

I have heard this opinion many times. Is there a scriptural reason for this?

1 Thessalonians 5:4 (NIV) 4 But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief.

How does this verse apply?

13 posted on 09/14/2011 7:21:29 AM PDT by marbren (I do not know but, Thank God, God knows)
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To: fatboy
How does one make the theological connection between the man of sin (coming from the old roman empire) and these 10 people groups/geographical areas located in the middle east?

See the map below. You'll notice that the eastern leg of the Roman Empire consisted of the Middle Eastern area of today. The Western Roman Empire collapsed in 476 A.D. which is the portion most of our generation has been taught to focus on regarding the prophecy of the revived roman Empire. However, the Eastern leg of the Roman or Byzantine Empire remained in power a thousand years after the collpase of the western leg, ending in 1453 A.D. with the death of Constantine XI and the capture of Constantinople by the Ottoman Turks, so the capital of the Roman Empire for the last thousand years was Constantinople. Where is Constantinople located? In Turkey. Hope this helps. (Keep your eyes on Turkey and Syria.) - OB1


14 posted on 09/14/2011 7:42:00 AM PDT by OB1kNOb (To some, George Orwell's story, "1984" is a cautionary tale. To others, it's a "how to" manual.)
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To: Quix

Thanks for the ping!


15 posted on 09/14/2011 8:01:55 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: CynicalBear

Thank you for sharing your insights, dear brother in Christ!


16 posted on 09/14/2011 8:08:41 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: bibletruth
Psalm 83 by Barry and Batya
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

17 posted on 09/14/2011 8:44:19 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: fatboy
In Daniel ch 9 we find that the man of sin comes from those who destroy the city (Jerusalem) and the sactuary (the Temple). In my opinionin it is easy to see that this would be an individual from the old Romand empire.

Look at secular history. According to Josephus, the Roman legions used to attack Jerusalem had been stationed in Syria. In particular, 90% of the soldiers from the legion that was assigned the destruction of the Temple, the X legion (Fretensis), were from Syria. So much for the idea of a "roman" anti-christ!

18 posted on 09/14/2011 9:02:27 AM PDT by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)
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To: CynicalBear
Right on!

I would recommend, to anybody interested in this subject, to read Isralestine by Bill Salus. An excellent book.

19 posted on 09/14/2011 9:21:36 AM PDT by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)
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To: UriĀ’el-2012

Beautiful!


20 posted on 09/14/2011 9:26:30 AM PDT by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)
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To: UriĀ’el-2012; Alamo-Girl; Amityschild; AngieGal; AnimalLover; Ann de IL; aposiopetic; aragorn; ...

WONDERFUL presentation of Psalm 83 as a prayer for Israel:

http://www.acwitness.org/psalm83english.html


21 posted on 09/14/2011 9:58:08 AM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Quix

Thanks for the link!


22 posted on 09/14/2011 10:28:33 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: bibletruth; Ezekiel
Correct, Psalm 83 lists the 10 nations, now…

Here’s a few more facts you might find interesting!

Amman (Jordan) is situated on hilly area of north-western Jordan. The city was originally built on seven hills, but it now spans over an area of nineteen hills (each known as a Jabal, Tál, Mount or Mountain). The main areas of Amman gain their names from the hills and mountains on whose slopes they lie. The city's elevation changes from mountain to mountain. They range from 740 to 1400 m (2035–3610 feet).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amman,_Jordan

This one’s off the scale!

Find a map of the middle east, print it out then rotate it 90 degrees (so West becomes North) then check out Revelation 9.

Map:
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/middle_east_and_asia/middle_east_ref_july_2011.pdf

Revelation 9

7 The shape of the locusts was like horses prepared for battle. On their heads were crowns of something like gold, and their faces were like the faces of men. 8 They had hair like women’s hair, and their teeth were like lions’ teeth. 9 And they had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the sound of their wings was like the sound of chariots with many horses running into battle. 10 They had tails like scorpions, and there were stings in their tails. Their power was to hurt men five months. 11 And they had as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, but in Greek he has the name Apollyon.

Now catalog the countries:

Horses prepared for battle: Turkey is the rider with upraised arm

Crowns of Gold: Sinai

Faces of men: Jordan

Women’s hair: Lebanon

Lions teeth: Jordan

Breastplates of iron: Iraq

Wings: See ‘no fly zone over Iraq’

Scorpion tails: Somalia and UAE

Another interesting fact, the UAE buys more weapons from U.S. then Israel. Israel is fourth in the M.E. behind Saudi Arabia, Egypt, the UAE then Israel.

And now on to Daniel 7

23 “He gave me this explanation: ‘The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom that will appear on earth. It will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth, trampling it down and crushing it. 24 The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom. After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings. 25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time.

He will subdue three kings… Egypt (weapons), Libya (oil), Syria? as always there’s lots more!

Buckle up, cause the ride just gets wilder!
John Lennon

Also, compare the iron and bronze from Daniel 7 19 “Then I wanted to know the meaning of the fourth beast, which was different from all the others and most terrifying, with its iron teeth and bronze claws.

With Nebuchadnezzar’s dream in Daniel 4 14 He called in a loud voice: ‘Cut down the tree and trim off its branches; strip off its leaves and scatter its fruit. Let the animals flee from under it and the birds from its branches. 15 But let the stump and its roots, bound with iron and bronze, remain in the ground, in the grass of the field.

Iron and bronze…which is also what oil wells are constructed of.

Later…

23 posted on 09/14/2011 10:31:11 AM PDT by Jeremiah Jr (Chi ha-Olamim)
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To: hfr
And that the point of prophecy is to make us aware of the judgments of a righteous God in order to persuade us to cling to Christ. Sorry I couldn't give a better answer.

You gave perhaps the best answer on this entire thread, as it cuts to the core of the issue. The true purpose of prophecy is to exhort the Body of Christ to holiness and submission to the Father, knowing that the Father executes judgment in righteousness against those who oppose His will.

As it is written:

Psa 46:10-11 KJV - [10] Be still, and know that I [am] God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth. [11] The LORD of hosts [is] with us; the God of Jacob [is] our refuge. Selah.

24 posted on 09/14/2011 11:35:04 AM PDT by Avalon Hussar
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To: Quix; left that other site

Wow!! Beautiful! Thanks so much, Quix!


25 posted on 09/14/2011 11:41:55 AM PDT by jackv (The darkness hates the light!)
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To: OB1kNOb
See the map below. You'll notice that the eastern leg of the Roman Empire consisted of the Middle Eastern area of today. The Western Roman Empire collapsed in 476 A.D. which is the portion most of our generation has been taught to focus on regarding the prophecy of the revived roman Empire. However, the Eastern leg of the Roman or Byzantine Empire remained in power a thousand years after the collpase of the western leg, ending in 1453 A.D. with the death of Constantine XI and the capture of Constantinople by the Ottoman Turks, so the capital of the Roman Empire for the last thousand years was Constantinople. Where is Constantinople located? In Turkey. Hope this helps. (Keep your eyes on Turkey and Syria.) - OB1

DING DING DING DING!!! We have a winner folks! Pay close attention to Turkey in general and Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan in particular. He's shown some very interesting activity in the past few years which make me wonder. There's no doubt in my mind that Islam is the Beast mentioned in the Book of Revelation, but there's still things which I wonder how it will work out, like the little horn that uproots three larger horns. Which three nations are they?

26 posted on 09/14/2011 11:43:29 AM PDT by Avalon Hussar
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To: CynicalBear
I agree with you.

The Arab nations involved in the Psalm 83 war will be totally defeated and complete non-entities by the time the ten kingdoms rise to their prophetic role.

27 posted on 09/14/2011 3:30:44 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: marbren
I don't know about a Scriptural reason for end times. But just as a practical fact. I mean how many opinions are there about precise details? All you can do is give your reasons for what you think. For example who can put a definite name to one given a label like the "man of sin"? As far as 1 Thessalonians 5:4, we know of a day coming and know to be prepared for it. But who can give a precise date to that day, much less even what decade of what century?

Like Avalon Hussar (posting elsewhere on this thread) said, "The true purpose of prophecy is to exhort the Body of Christ to holiness and submission to the Father, knowing that the Father executes judgment in righteousness against those who oppose His will.

As it is written:

Psa 46:10-11 KJV - [10] Be still, and know that I [am] God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth. [11] The LORD of hosts [is] with us; the God of Jacob [is] our refuge. Selah."

28 posted on 09/14/2011 7:15:13 PM PDT by hfr (Liberalism is a moral disorder that leads to mental disorder (actually it's sin))
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To: bibletruth
Just saw this on BibleProphecyMan:

The Western leg of the Roman Empire has already returned in our generation. It is known as the EU or if you will, the European Union. As such let us look at what the scriptures point out to us about this last days kingdom.

The prophet Daniel points out that this kingdom will not hold together. Let’s look at the EU.

First of all, the European Union is made up of the same nations that used to be in the old Roman Empire. At the current time there are 27 members.

Second, the EU has a group of nations that they now call “The Ten”. This group of ten nations took hold July 1, 2011. Revelation 17: 12-13 tells us ten kings would come from this kingdom. Daniel 7:24-25 shows us ten horns will come this kingdom of which the Antichrist will first subdue 3 kings. These horns are the same as the ten kings in the Revelation.

Third, Daniel 2:41-43 point out the following: “Whereas you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; yet the strength of the iron shall be in it, just as you saw the iron mixed with ceramic clay. And as the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly fragile. As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay.” as noted in the above scriptures this kingdom will not hold together. All of these things I listed are the exact same things we see happening in this revived Roman Empire now. Here is the news today concerning the possible break up of the Eurozone nations. The headline to the report is entitled: “Eurozone crisis could rip EU apart: officials”

“The eurozone crisis could wreck the European Union, top EU officials warned on Wednesday as the leaders of Germany and France held talks with Greece to avoid a default and widespread chaos. The pressure rose on all fronts with United States again expressing great concern, with Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner saying European states "now recognise they are going to have to do more" to resolve to the crisis. Highlighting the threat to the global economy, Geithner is to exceptionally attend talks between European Union finance ministers and central bankers in Poland on Friday.”

Eurozone Crisis Could Rip EU Apart: Officials

29 posted on 09/15/2011 1:55:06 AM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
Unless I'm blind, a very real possibility, I don't see where anyone is making the case that the 10 entities mentioned in Psalm 83 are the 10 kingdoms (from a possible revised Roman Empire) that make up the 10 toes in Daniel ch 2. The 10 entities mentioned in Rev 17 receive their power from the man of sin and only have that power long enough (1 hour) to give their allegiance to back to the man of sin.

What I see is "I have a different take on this pre-mil end time thing and I'm proving my case by throwing aout a whole bunch of Scripture verses that seem to be related but really are not. Just don't look a the fine print and we will be all right." In other words, connect the dots...

30 posted on 09/15/2011 6:57:07 AM PDT by fatboy (This protestant will have no part in the ecumenical movement)
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To: bibletruth; All

http://runningfrombabylon.blogspot.com/2011/09/return-of-nephilim.html

= = =
Latest, Running from Babylon blog.


31 posted on 09/16/2011 7:24:35 PM PDT by Joya (Jesus is coming back. Something to look forward to, it is more than enough.)
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Actually came from this site

http://seventheory.com/


32 posted on 09/16/2011 7:25:37 PM PDT by Joya (Jesus is coming back. Something to look forward to, it is more than enough.)
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