Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: GiovannaNicoletta
What Paul wrote is true. But you are not reading what Paul said. The dead are already ‘risen’ so naturally they would be first. ALLLL in the flesh when Christ returns will be changed in a twinkling of an eye ICorinthians 15:51-52 the end of this flesh age.

BUT the first supernatural being tossed down here upon us is NOT our LORD and Saviour but the great pretender to deceive all but the elect that he is Jesus. ONE of his lies is he has come to ‘rapture’ out IF they believe upon him.

Check out that word Paul uses ‘air’. Soul means ‘breath of life’ as in ‘air’, a different dimension not held by gravity.

45 posted on 09/17/2011 2:49:02 PM PDT by Just mythoughts (Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies ]


To: Just mythoughts
Wrong. The deceiver is here already. And has been since he was cast out of heaven. He is "the prince of the power of the air". He has deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ, miracles, signs, and wonders, intended to deceive, he blind men to the truth, he has a system of doctrine, his ministers preach a gospel, another Jesus, he has a communion table, a counterfeit righteousness, and a counterfeit Spirituality.

He is alive and well, and deceiving the world at this time. And will be until the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ.

50 posted on 09/17/2011 3:03:04 PM PDT by smvoice (The Cross was NOT God's Plan B.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies ]

To: Just mythoughts
But you are not reading what Paul said. The dead are already ‘risen’ so naturally they would be first. ALLLL in the flesh when Christ returns will be changed in a twinkling of an eye ICorinthians 15:51-52 the end of this flesh age.

You're wrong, and here is proof:

The Last Trumpet

snip

The " last trumpet" of 1 Corinthians 15:52 is singular, referring to one judgment, not a sequence of seven. Ellicott notes, " There are no sufficient grounds for supposing that there is here any reference to the seventh Apocalyptic trumpet (Rev. xi. 15), or to the seventh and last trumpet." [4] Henry Thiessen agrees:

"If he had thought of this trumpet as one of seven, he would undoubtedly have said something like the following: " For when the trumpets will be sounded and the time comes for the last one to sound, the dead in Christ shall be raised." At any rate, there is no ground for identifying the " trump" in 1 Cor. 15:52 with the seventh trumpet in Rev. 11:15. Those in the Revelation introduce fearful judgments upon the world and mankind; this one calls the dead in Christ out of their graves and summons both the ones raised and the believers still living into the Lord' s presence."[5]

If the seventh trumpet in Revelation and the last trumpet in 1 Corinthians 15:52 are supposed to be a reference to the same thing, then why are there many more months of judgment that follow the supposed last trumpet in Revelation 11. The view that equates the last trumpet in 1 Corinthians 15:52 with the seventh trumpet of Revelation does not harmonize in any way.

1 Corinthians 15:52

The context of 1 Corinthians 15:52 is very different than the context of Revelation 11:15. 1 Corinthians 15:52 better harmonizes with 1 Thessalonians 4:16, which says, " For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first." Both passages speak of the rapture and judgment is absent from both. The trumpet in both are the last or final command that the Lord gives to the church, resulting in the translation of all Believers. Dr. J. Dwight Pentecost cites the following reasons as to why the " last trumpet" in 1 Corinthians 15:52 is different from any of the trumpet judgments in Revelation.

"There seem to be a number of observations which make it impossible for one to identify these two trumps. (1) The trumpet of 1 Corinthians 15:52, . . . sounds before the wrath of God descends, while, . . . the chronology or Revelation indicates that the trumpet in Revelation 11:15 sounds at the end of the time of wrath. . . . (2) The trumpet that summons the church is called the trump of God, while the seventh trump is an angel' s trumpet. . . . (3) The trumpet for the church is singular. No trumpets have preceded it so that it can not be said to be the last of a series. The trumpet that closes the tribulation period is clearly the last of a series of seven. (4) In 1 Thessalonians 4 the voice associated with the sounding of the trumpet summons the dead and the living and consequently is heard before the resurrection. In the Revelation, while a resurrection is mentioned (11:12), the trumpet does not sound until after the resurrection, showing us that two different events must be in view. (5) The trumpet in 1 Thessalonians issues in blessing, in life, in glory, while the trumpet in Revelation issues in judgment upon the enemies of God. (6) In the Thessalonian passage the trumpet sounds " in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye." In Revelation 10:7 the indication is that the seventh trumpet shall sound over a continued period of time, probably for the duration of the judgments that fall under it, for John speaks of the angel that shall " begin to sound." . . . (7) The trumpet in 1 Thessalonians is distinctly for the church. Since God is dealing with Israel in particular, and Gentiles in general, in the tribulation, this seventh trumpet, which falls in the period of the tribulation, could not have reference to the church without losing the distinctions between the church and Israel. (8) The passage in Revelation depicts a great earthquake in which thousands are slain, and the believing remnant that worships God is stricken with fear. In the Thessalonian passage there is no earth quake mentioned. . . . (9) While the church will be rewarded at the time of the rapture, yet the reward given to " thy servants the prophets, and to the saints" can not be that event. The rewarding mentioned in Revelation 11:18 is seen to take place on the earth after the second advent of Christ, following the judgment on His enemies. Since the church is rewarded in the air, following the rapture, these must be two distinct events."[6]

Conclusion

The last trumpet in 1 Corinthians 15:52 is the final command that Christ provides for His church when He sends the signal to gather us together for the meeting in the sky that we know as the rapture. The contexts of 1 Corinthians 15:52 and that of Revelation 11 are totally different from one another. About the only similarity between the two is that the word " trumpet" is used in both. (Actually the word " trumpet" is not even used in Revelation 11:15- 19. The text actually says, " the seventh angel sounded" (11:15), clearly implying that a trumpet is sounded as noted in Revelation 8:2). The respective contexts are totally different. In 1 Corinthians 15:52, there is the context of things related to the church age, while Revelation 11 speaks of judgment during the tribulation. No such silver bullet argument exists for posttribulationism since I believe that it is clear that the New Testament does not teach such a view. Maranatha!

You have to deny Scripture to believe that the earth will be present on earth during the Tribulation.

And as is apparent from your posts, you have no qualms whatsoever about stating that what God said is false.

Apostasy on steroids.

53 posted on 09/17/2011 3:06:54 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies ]

To: Just mythoughts
But you are not reading what Paul said. The dead are already ‘risen’ so naturally they would be first.

You appear to be reading it wrong...The dead are not risen...Go dig up any recent grave and have a look...

Paul is speaking of dead bodies...The souls have already risen from the dead bodies but NOT the bodies...

1Co 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
1Co 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

The dead bodies in the ground will be raised, first...Those bodies which are alive will go second...Bodies, spirit and soul...

This is called the redemption...

93 posted on 09/18/2011 9:16:47 PM PDT by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailerpark...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies ]

To: Just mythoughts

What Paul wrote is true. But you are not reading what Paul said. The dead are already ‘risen’


I do not believe the dead are risen yet unless we are now living in the last day, i guess we could be because a day is as a thousand years.


John ch 6
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 14
1
Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2
In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.


The only ones who get to be with Jesus before the last day are the ones referred to as the first fruits.

1cor 15:23
But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.


109 posted on 09/20/2011 10:11:25 AM PDT by ravenwolf (Just a bit of the long list of proofsr)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson