Posted on 10/08/2011 11:37:24 AM PDT by wmfights
I think most Evangelical Christians would feel the same way. Why vote for a "Christian" who is Pro-Abortion, Pro-Homosexual Agenda, Anti-Family, Anti-Marriage. However, all things being equal would you give preference to the Christian?
These were the comments of a Pastor at the Value Voters Conference.
However, the individual voter has a right to know more about the individual candidate’s beliefs,...
I agree and I do believe it is something a voter should consider.
and we may count upon the democrat sycophancy media to educate the public on the vagaries of Mormonism. It will not be pretty ...
Again, I agree. The vast majority of voters have no idea what Mormon beliefs are and as you say "it will not be pretty".
V: Faith is not the sole factor in a candidate's credentials.
Didn't say it was, nor did my question.
My problem with Mormonism is that it is a whole lot more than a church. A multi-trillion dollar business corporation.
I’m a grandma, not a wheeler-dealer business expert with all the figures, etc. That said, Romney in the White House will bring with him a world of special interests that are hard to describe.
We have a President doing the “Chicago Way” now. We don’t need a shadow Mormon government, of which shady Romney is very typical.
Jeffress evinces poor judgment and an inappropriate mixing of religion and politics, in both of which he demonstrates that he is indeed a Baptist preacher adrift in unfamiliar waters, waters he has unwisely chosen to drift about in. Romney evinces naked ambition and malleability of principles, in both of which he demonstrates that he is indeed a temple Mormon sailing in turbulent seas toward a destination his presumptive passengers are both ignorant and uneasy about. I don’t like or trust either of them.
America has survived both believing (in terms of Christianity) and unbelieving presidents. As a Christian, I am more comfortable with one I perceive to be believing. But I am not at all comfortable with one I perceive to have unknown or concealed principles that are at odds with the founding principles of the nation, be he Christian or non-Christian. That is my chief problem with Mitt Romney, his seeming lack of firm and clearly evident principles. His avowed Mormonism just adds to the problem.
But I agree with Herman Cain ... “good hair.”
His nomination would be a disaster.
In this case, a candidate did not respond. A supporter did.
A candidate should ESPECIALLY have the savvy not to bring the subject up HIMSELF.
So, be prepared for the liberal media to eventually paint the entire GOP Southern base as religious bigots, when the time is right, thanks to Herman Cain.
Maybe there is a reason why Herman Cain has never won a single election in his life.
Be careful about jumping on the Cain Train without asking enough questions.
It may be an uncomfortable topic, but religion and politics are intertwined and always have been.
Are a candidate's personal beliefs a reasonable basis to vote against, or for a candidate? I believe so.
IOW, if someone says they can't vote for Romney because as a Mormon he does not believe in the great "I AM" that preexisted all creation, but instead believes in a god that evolved from man, are they wrong?
In fairness to Cain and his political naivety they do that already. What's sad is to see otherwise good conservatives start to fall all over themselves protecting mormonism. It's a legitimate question to ask what a candidates personal beliefs are and to place a premium on like minded people. Also, this same pastor said if it came down to Romney vs. obama he would vote for Romney.
I won't vote for either.
Four years ago Romney stated publically that he had accepted JC as his personal saviour. What else does Jefress demand?
- - - - -
The thing is, Hattie, Mormons don’t believe that. There is no personal relationship with Jesus like Christians believe. In fact, their leaders teach that it is WRONG to claim to have a personal relationship or worship Jesus. To them Jesus is just our ‘elder brother’ who is our example and ‘saves’ us from physical death (meaning we will all be resurrected), spiritual salvation is based upon our works.
So, Romney is intentionally distorting in order to make it sound like the LDS are Christians. Sadly, it happens all the time.
I can give you sources for that.
Amen, Brother! I thank the Lord every day he delivered me from Mormonism.
Souls are more important than politics.
**Asked by POLITICO if he believed Romney is a Christian, Jeffress answered: “No.”**
“So, be prepared for the liberal media to eventually paint the entire GOP Southern base as religious bigots ..” You need not caution me to ‘be prepared’. I have little doubt you will be assisting that effort, when the time comes. Bwahahahahaha
What Does Mormonism Teach?
by Matt Slick
The doctrines of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) are very interesting. Most of the ‘odd’ ones are not initially taught to potential converts. But they should be. Instead, “they are revealed later as one matures and gains the ability to accept them.” The LDS Church tries to make its official doctrines appear Christian but what underlies those Christian sounding terms is far from Christian in meaning.
Following are the teachings of its officials throughout the years. Please note that these teachings are documented from Mormon writers, not anti-Mormon writers.
Finally, many Mormons respond that most of the citations below are not from official Mormon writings, as if that disproves the doctrines they teach. If they are not official, fine. But, if not, then why have the Mormon apostles and high officials taught them, written them, and why are their books sold in Mormon bookstores? The truth is, the following is what Mormons are taught.
1.Atonement
A.”Jesus paid for all our sins when He suffered in the Garden of Gethsemane,” (Laurel Rohlfing, “Sharing Time: The Atonement,” Friend, Mar. 1989, p. 39.).
B.”We accept Christ’s atonement by repenting of our sins, being baptized, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, and obeying all of the commandments,” (Gospel Principles, Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1979, p. 68.).
2.Baptism
A.Baptism for the dead, (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. II, p. 141). This is a practice of baptizing each other in place of non-Mormons who are now dead. Their belief is that in the afterlife, the “newly baptized” person will be able to enter into a higher level of Mormon heaven.
3.Bible
A.”We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly. . .” (8th Article of Faith of the Mormon Church).
B.”Wherefore, thou seest that after the book hath gone forth through the hands of the great and abominable church, that there are many plain and precious things taken away from the book, which is the book of the Lamb of God,” (1 Nephi 13:28).
4.Book of Mormon
A.The book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible, (History of the Church, 4:461).
5.Devil, the
A.The Devil was born as a spirit after Jesus “in the morning of pre-existence,” (Mormon Doctrine, p. 192).
B.Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163).
C.A plan of salvation was needed for the people of earth so Jesus offered a plan to the Father and Satan offered a plan to the father but Jesus’ plan was accepted. In effect the Devil wanted to be the Savior of all Mankind and to “deny men their agency and to dethrone god,” (Mormon Doctrine, p. 193; Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 8).
6.God
A.God used to be a man on another planet, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 321; Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, vol. 5, p. 613-614; Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 345; Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 333).
B.”The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s...” (D&C 130:22).
C.God is in the form of a man, (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 3).
D.”God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!!! . . . We have imagined that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil, so that you may see,” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345).
E.God the Father had a Father, (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 476; Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p. 19; Milton Hunter, First Council of the Seventy, Gospel through the Ages, p. 104-105).
F.God resides near a star called Kolob, (Pearl of Great Price, p. 34-35; Mormon Doctrine, p. 428).
G.God had sexual relations with Mary to make the body of Jesus, (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 4, 1857, p. 218; vol. 8, p. 115). - This one is disputed among many Mormons and not always ‘officially’ taught and believed. Nevertheless, Young, the 2nd prophet of the Mormon church taught it.
H.”Therefore we know that both the Father and the Son are in form and stature perfect men; each of them possesses a tangible body . . . of flesh and bones.” (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 38).
7.God, becoming a god
A.After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god, (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345-347, 354.)
B.”Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them,” (D&C 132:20).
8.God, many gods
A.There are many gods, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163).
B.”And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light: and there was light,” (Book of Abraham 4:3).
9.God, mother goddess
A.There is a mother god, (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443).
B.God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit children, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 516).
10.God, Trinity
A.The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. “That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man,” (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35).
11.Gospel, the
A.The true gospel was lost from the earth. Mormonism is its restoration, (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 182-185.)
B.Consists of laws and ordinances: “As these sins are the result of individual acts it is just that forgiveness for them should be conditioned on individual compliance with prescribed requirements — ‘obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel,’” (Articles of Faith, p. 79)
12.Heaven
A.There are three levels of heaven: telestial, terrestrial, and celestial, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 348).
13.Holy Ghost, the
A.The Holy Ghost is a male personage, A Marvelous Work and a Wonder, (Le Grand Richards, Salt Lake City, 1956, p. 118; Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p. 179).
14.Jesus
A.The first spirit to be born in heaven was Jesus, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 129).
B.Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163; Gospel Through the Ages, p. 15).
C.Jesus’ sacrifice was not able to cleanse us from all our sins, (murder and repeated adultery are exceptions), (Journal of Discourses, vol. 3, 1856, p. 247).
D.”Therefore we know that both the Father and the Son are in form and stature perfect men; each of them possesses a tangible body . . . of flesh and bones,” (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 38).
E.”The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood - was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers,” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 8, p. 115).
F.”Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers,” (Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce McConkie, p. 547).
G.”Christ Not Begotten of Holy Ghost ...Christ was begotten of God. He was not born without the aid of Man, and that Man was God!” (Doctrines of Salvation, by Joseph Fielding Smith, 1954, 1:18).
H.”Elohim is literally the Father of the spirit of Jesus Christ and also of the body in which Jesus Christ performed His mission in the flesh...” (First Presidency and Council of the Twelve, 1916, “God the Father,” compiled by Gordon Allred, p. 150).
15.Joseph Smith
A.If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation. There is no salvation [the context is the full gospel including exaltation to Godhood] outside the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 670).
16.Pre-existence
A.We were first begotten as spirit children in heaven and then born naturally on earth, (Journal of Discourse, vol. 4, p. 218).
B.The first spirit to be born in heaven was Jesus, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 129).
C.The Devil was born as a spirit after Jesus “in the morning of pre-existence,” (Mormon Doctrine, p. 192).
17.Prophets
A.We need prophets today, the same as in the Old Testament, (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 444-445).
18.Salvation
A.”One of the most fallacious doctrines originated by Satan and propounded by man is that man is saved alone by the grace of God; that belief in Jesus Christ alone is all that is needed for salvation,” (Miracle of Forgiveness, Spencer W. Kimball, p. 206).
B.A plan of salvation was needed for the people of earth so Jesus offered a plan to the Father and Satan offered a plan to the father but Jesus’ plan was accepted. In effect the Devil wanted to be the Savior of all Mankind and to “deny men their agency and to dethrone god,” (Mormon Doctrine, p. 193; Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 8).
C.Jesus’ sacrifice was not able to cleanse us from all our sins, (murder and repeated adultery are exceptions), (Journal of Discourses, vol. 3, 1856, p. 247).
D.Good works are necessary for salvation (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 92).
E.There is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet of God (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p. 188).
F.”The first effect [of the atonement] is to secure to all mankind alike, exemption from the penalty of the fall, thus providing a plan of General Salvation. The second effect is to open a way for Individual Salvation whereby mankind may secure remission of personal sins (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 78-79).
G.”As these sins are the result of individual acts it is just that forgiveness for them should be conditioned on individual compliance with prescribed requirements — ‘obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel,’” (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 79).
H.”This grace is an enabling power that allows men and women to lay hold on eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts,” (LDS Bible Dictionary, p. 697).
I.”We know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do,” (2 Nephi 25:23).
19.Trinity, the
A.The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. “That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man,” (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35.).
B.”Many men say there is one God; the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are only one God. I say that is a strange God [anyhow]—three in one and one in three. . .It is curious organization… All are crammed into one God according to sectarianism (Christian faith). It would make the biggest God in all the world. He would be a wonderfully big God—he would be a giant or a monster,” (Joseph Smith, Teachings, p. 372).
Some Mormons may disagree with a few of the points listed on this page, but all of what is stated here is from Mormon authors in good standing of the Mormon church.
I'm all for a born again, Saved Southern Baptist, you know, like:
Or you know like:
I certainly won't be making a choice based on religion.
This would be a terrible mistake.
I won't be voting for Romney, at least not in the primary, I hope to be supporting Herman Cain. I don't even know what religion Cain is. It is Mr. Cain's ideas I will be voiting for not his religion. I don't care if Cain spends his vacations on Kolob, I don't care if he wears fancy underware, I don't care if he thinks Jesus is black or a seperate God to His Father. I don't even care if Cain thinks he will inherit everything his Father in heaven has or becomes like Him. Cain is the Man. As far as Mitt Romney believing all those things, so? If Heaven forbid Mr. Romney gets the nomination, I will be voting for him in the general. To me, Romney says he is a Christian. He says he loves The Lord. He says that Christ is his Savior. For me it is enough. I don't care where he says The Lord lives or what he thinks The Lords nuanced relationship to His Father is. It doesn't matter.
Do you believe mormons are Christians? I don't.
Are someone's personal beliefs something to consider when deciding whether to vote for them or not?
Great post!
What were your thoughts about obama attending rev. wright's church for 20 years and their black liberation theology? Was that of any legitimate concern?
From the article: If anything, a candidate’s religion, and the degree to which he adheres to it, tells you a great deal about how he will approach a wide range of public policy issues.
I take it you view this point as irrelevant?
Here's an analogous situation, borrowed from Freeper William Clark, illustrating how one can have faith in 'a' Christ but not the true Savior Christ:
"I always like to use the analogy of Jim Caviezel [In Mel Gibson's 'The Passion of The Christ']. Like the Mormon Jesus, he dressed the part, spoke the same words (in the original language, no less), and was referred to as Jesus Christ within a specific context, but it makes all the difference in the world whether one worships and depends upon him for their salvation or the genuine article."
I think you are dissembling.
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