Posted on 10/10/2011 7:50:42 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
The news is abuzz with the question of Mormonism, cults, and Christianity.
A cult is often understood as a religious group with strange beliefs out of the cultural mainstream (which many today increasingly consider biblical Christianity). Since "cult" is difficult to define, scholars tend not to use it.
However, the question of what beliefs characterize Christianity is not a new debate, and is one we should not shy away from if words and definitions matter.
Many people are shocked at the idea that some pastors believe Mormons are not Christians-- "judgementalism" is decried and "intolerance" proclaimed. Yet, as that may be new news to some, the view that Mormons are not Christians is historic and very widely held view.
In 2007, LDS spokesman Michael Otterson provided a forthright article in the On Faith section of the Washington Post / Newsweek. He explains,
The question, "Are Mormons Christian?" is a good starting point for this discussion. When some conservative Protestants say Mormons aren't Christian, it is deeply offensive to Latter-day Saints. Yet when Latter-day Saints assert their Christianity, some of those same Christians bitterly resent it. Why? Because both sides are using the same terms to describe different things...
When someone says Mormons aren't Christian... he or she usually means that Mormons don't embrace the traditional interpretation of the Bible that includes the Trinity. "Our Jesus" is somehow different from "their Jesus." Further, they mean that some Mormon teachings are so far outside Christian orthodoxy of past centuries that they constitute almost a new religion.
Otterson is correct here. For evangelicals and others, "Christian" is more than a self-identified label. It is hard for people in tolerant America to hear, "I know you SAY you are a Christian, but you are not." Yet, basic to evangelicalism (and historic Protestantism) is that some people are Christians, some people are not, and not all people who think that they are Christians actually are.
"Christianity" is not based on what you say about yourself or your beliefs. "Christianity" must be connected to how your beliefs agree with the beliefs of biblical Christianity.
With Mormonism becoming a major topic of discussion, about a year ago LifeWay Research decided to ask Protestant pastors their view. According to our random sample, most pastors feel strongly Mormons are not Christians. After several reporters asked if we had some data, I decided to release it. You can download the full report here: Protestant Pastor Views of Mormonism.
The survey polled 1,000 American Protestant pastors asking them to respond to the statement, "I personally consider Mormons (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints) to be Christians." It's a forthright question some will find offensive, but it will be an increasingly important question.
Three-quarters of Protestant pastors (75%) disagree with the statement, "I personally consider Mormons... to be Christians," including 60 percent who strongly disagree and 15 percent who somewhat disagree. Just 11 percent somewhat agree, 6 percent strongly agree and 9 percent do not know.
In other words, the view that "Mormons are not Christians" is the widely and strongly held view among Protestant pastors. That does not meant they do not respect Mormons as persons, share their values on family, and have much in common. Yet, they simply view Mormonism as a distinct religion outside of basic teachings of Christianity. Many of these pastors may know Mormons consider themselves Christians, but Protestant pastors overwhelmingly do not consider them such.
I know this is an unpleasant question to many, and one that some will use as a hammer on evangelicals, but let me encourage a different view.
The fundamental issue is: how divergent can your views be and still be a part of a faith group (in contrast to forming a new one). Can you believe, for instance, that Muhammad is not the prophet and still call yourself a Muslim? The vast majority of Muslims would say you cannot. For Christians, calling yourself a Christian while not believing that God has always existed as the triune Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is as inconceivable.
This is not simply a conservative evangelical Christian view. Methodists have said "the LDS Church is not a part of the historic, apostolic tradition of the Christian faith." Even Roman Catholics (hardly conservative Protestants) don't recognize LDS baptism.
As I said before, a cult is difficult to define. But Christianity has been defined a certain way for centuries. There is no reason to be shocked that devout Christians consider those with a different view of Christ as non-Christians. In the current cultural climate it may be uncomfortable, but it is anything but shocking.
As far as I know the Mormons do not subscribe to the sacrament of holy communion so that kind of does it for me. They don’t believe that you get forgiveness through Jesus. They also believe Jesus and Lucifer are spiritual brothers. Mormons, nice folks not christians.
RE: I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and the amount of ignorance about me and my faith is perfectly stunning
Can you kindly answer the following questions for us:
1) Do you believe that God has a body of flesh and bones ? ( Doctrines and Covenants 130:22)
2) Do you believe that Jesus Christ is God and never had a beginning (not created)? ( , Jesus the Christ, by James Talmage, p. 8 )
3) Do you believe that Jesus is THE ONE AND ONLY GOD IN THE FLESH or do you believe that Jesus is A GOD in the flesh?
4) Do you believe that God is TRINITY ( Father, Son ( Jesus) and Holy Spirit ), THREE IN ONE?
5) Do you believe that there is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD and NO OTHER, or do you believe that there are many Gods and We can also be Gods?
The above question have historically been considered part of the essentials of the Christian Faith, by which we differentiate who is or is not Christian.
Could you kindly answer the abvoe questions? Thanks.
A simple logic test for those thinking on this issue.
If LDS/Mormons can be called Christian is it equally valid to call Christians Mormon ?
I have not read your Mormon book, but the original Scriptures, Yah’shua Messiah says He is not the judge.
John 5:45 “But don't think that it is I who will be your accuser before the Father. Do you know who will accuse you? Moshe, the very one you have counted on! 46 For if you really believed Moshe, you would believe me; because it was about me that he wrote. 47 But if you don't believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?”
Yah'shua our Messiah paid the penalty for our sins. Revenge belongs to YHVH, the Father & He only.
RE: They believe in Jesus Christ as The Son of God
Be careful, there is a difference between believing that Jesus is THE Son of God and believing that He is A SON of God.
And when they talk about God, you have to remember that their concept of God is different from the Catholic concept of God.
“As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become.” (LDS President Lorenzo Snow, June 1840 ).
According to Mormon teaching -— God was once a mere mortal man, this couplet also declares that man has the potential to become God!
Is that Christian belief? Is this the God you believe in?
And this is false because____________? (Biblical reference please)
One shouldn't be throwing stones when one lives in a glass house. Christian doctrine is anything but pure because it says that the Word in which Yah’shua came as, was abolished while also claiming Yah’shua came as a new covenant other than that which He came as.
As far as I know the Mormons do not subscribe to the sacrament of holy communion so that kind of does it for me. They don’t believe that you get forgiveness through Jesus.
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You are misinformed. The Mormons do believe in the Sacrament of communion, they do it almost every week, it is the reason they go to church.
They believe that there is no other means of forgiveness other than that of Jesus Christ. They believe that if not for the sacrifice of Jesus all would be doomed. All the talk about works and Mormons is misguided. They don’t believe that works do anything for your salvation, only that if you don’t have any works you don’t have any faith and aren’t a true believer. It is one thing to SAY you follow Christ and quite another to FOLLOW Him.
Revelation 12:
7 And there was a war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
RE: that the Word in which Yah’shua came as, was abolished while also claiming Yah’shua came as a new covenant other than that which He came as.
“I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.” (Matthew 5:18)
“”Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.” ( Matthew 5:17)
So when did mormonism canonize the dictionary to provide theological structure for their beliefs?
Was Jesus eternally God, or was there a period of time he wasn’t God
Was heavenly father once a man who later progressed to being a god, just like his father before him, etc.
Or will we see the standard obfuscation by mormons on these points.
How do the verses in Revelations that you mentioned show that Lucifer is the spirit brother of Jesus Christ?
It simply tells us that another Angel, Michael defeated the Devil.
We agree on almost all points, but private interpretation doesn’t factor in this discussion. The Bible is clear on the issue, to the point of being painfully obvious.
When we say we believe in truth, we are saying that there is only one truth, because truth is exclusive: the Law of Non-contridiction teaches us that. There cannot be multiple truths when dealing with systemized theology. It is mathematically and logically impossible.
I contend for the faith, I do not rip people for sport. I love mormons and pray they will examine their theology in the light of Scripture.
John
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
...
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.
Thus Jesus is Creator while Angles (lucifer included) are created
Colossians
For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth
RE: If LDS/Mormons can be called Christian is it equally valid to call Christians Mormon ?
I believe Mormons consider themselves to be the one with the TRUE, COMPLETE GOSPEL and that Christianity is INCOMPLETE.
Therefore They can call themselves Christian but all Christians SHOULD BE Mormons ( or Later day Saints ).
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A valid point is made in this statement.
The doctrine of man becoming god has been explained to me as follows. Christ is Gods firstborn son, there can be no other firstborn. Jesus Christ is also "Christ", there is only one. Man will not become God. Man will if he accepts Christ as his Lord and follows Him will inherit all that Christ has. Christ said that He would inherit all that His Father had. Mormons say this means all titles, authority, all power and all dominion. If Christ inherits all His Father has that makes Him God. IF we inherit all that Christ has and Christ has all that His Father has what does that make us? The New Testament used the term referring to Christs followers as Joint Heirs.
So as appalling as becoming god sounds I understand it and don't (now) find it offensive.
Thinking that God was ever like man is something I can't explain for you you will have to ask some learned Mormon about that, they are here perhaps they will answer the question.
There are many different offshoots of Christianity, such as Jehovah’s Witnesses, Christian Scientists, Mormons, etc., that have many things in common. These various groups were formed by a person or group that didn’t accept the teachings of historic Christianity. These founders claimed to have authority from God to proclaim their doctrine is correct and historic Christianity is wrong.
All of the groups reject the fundamental teachings of historic Christianity, such as the nature of God, nature of Jesus, way of salvation, etc. Those doctrine are of the upmost importance and are not merely trivial differences.
Mormons, like many other movements, try to re-define terms like “Christian”, to mean whatever they think, but there is already historical precendent for such terms. Therefore, it’s entirely correct to state that Mormonism is not compatability with Christianity.
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