Skip to comments.The first Episcopal church in the U.S. to become Catholic under...
Posted on 10/10/2011 12:03:16 PM PDT by NYer
click here to read article
Do we have a parish like this near us? Tell me if you go and we’ll join you.
Looks like this is it for us in MI.
But here’s a map I found for others who want to find a parish.
I don’t think we do, but I’ll check and get back to you. I was in Austin in August, and there’s an Anglican use parish in San Antonio, but I didn’t have time to make it there. I went to a spectacular parish in Round Rock (St. William), and the priest, who is a convert himself, had Bishop Flores as his formation director. Small world, eh?
We need to chat soon. One of our friends is on the board of a crisis pregnancy center and they need some fundraising assistance.
Then you're "aware" of a falsehood. Semi-pelagianism was the idea that the initiative in the ordo salutis (sometimes or always) belonged to man, unaided by grace.
That is, that the natural man could have, by himself, a "good thought" or "good movement," and from that could seek God such that God would reach down and offer him justification.
Against this, the Catholic Church taught at II Orange that nobody could seek God, repent, or believe as he ought apart from grace. Even coöperating with grace requires grace to enable the co&oum;peration. (We are fully capable of resisting grace on our own.)
There was never any question that the unaided will could, by itself, reject grace, nor that the human will, aided by grace, could actively accept subsequent graces. This is why St. Augustine could say:
But God made you without any cooperation on your part. For you did not lend your consent so that god could make you. How could you have consented, when you did not exist? But he who made you without your consent does not justify you without your consent. He made you without your knowledge, but He does not justify you without you willing it.-- Sermon 169, paragraph 13 Augustine was no semi-Pelagian.
Your own posts aren't even consistent with full determinism. "Depart from her, if you can"? If full determinism is true, then all "can" rests with God, and none with me. For you to tell Catholics, "Depart from her, if you can" makes as much sense as me opening a cupboard in my kitchen and telling the dishes "Jump down from there, if you can".
That your own posts contradict your theology may be a telling sign that it doesn't make sense.
I have no idea how you get full determinism out of John 16, but I know exactly how to get Catholicism out of Romans 6:23:
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus Our Lord.Wages are something you earn. You are fully capable of earning eternal death by your sins, and are fully capable of committing those sins. God doesn't compel it at all, for anyone. Salvation, OTOH, is an utterly free gift.
The sacraments the action of men???? The Church claims that they are the actions of Christ—who yes, did become man—so thay are the actions of one who became man, but not any random man.
Free will and divine providence are both to be held—how they work together is a mystery, but they are both to be held, just as God is three and God is one, and Christ is true God and true man. All are mysteries. Some hold only one of a pair while denying the other, and hold that one can only hold one or the other of the pair. I hold all by faith—and do not assert that I reject those aspects that you do hold merely because I hold aspects that you reject because you, for whatever reasons, believe that both cannot be held. God is three and God is one; Christ is true God and true man; God reigns supreme and governs all and while being the supreme governor of all allows man to cooperate in His Providence. Semi-Pelegian—hogwash. I am no more a Semi-Pelegian than I am an Arian.
None of the dishes in your cupboard are being managed into salvation. Some humans (being managed like dishes) are.
My fingers ran away with John 16, which s/b John 6. Now go read it and tell me you see nothing there.
But, with Romans 6, you will need to read on to see "rest of the story" and find out what a "free gift" means to Paul. Romans 9:16ff "So then, it does not depend upon the man who runs (acts) or the man who wills (chooses), but upon God...So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires. You will say to me then, Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?" May wish to read Paul's answer. There is something about men being treated like dishes...but it is by their Maker. And He disagrees with you.
As to the existence of free will:
Behold I set forth in your sight this day a blessing and a curse: A blessing, if you obey the commandments of the Lord your God, which I command you this day: A curse, if you obey not the commandments of the Lord your. God, but revolt from the way which now I shew you, and walk after strange gods which you know not.The Scriptures also declare that we can resist God's will:
If there is no free will then there can be no obeying nor revolt since all our actions are by the will of God.
Consider that I have set before thee this day life and good, and on the other hand death and evil: That thou mayst love the Lord thy God, and walk in his ways, and keep his commandments and ceremonies and judgments, and thou mayst live, and he may multiply thee, and bless thee in the land, which thou shalt go in to possess. But if thy heart be turned away, so that thou wilt not hear, and being deceived with error thou adore strange gods, and serve them: I foretell thee this day that thou shalt perish, and shalt remain but a short time in the land, to which thou shalt pass over the Jordan, and shalt go in to possess it. I call heaven and earth to witness this day, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing. CHOOSE therefore life, that both thou and thy seed may live: And that thou mayst love the Lord thy God, and obey his voice, and adhere to him (for he is thy life, and the length of thy days,) that thou mayst dwell in the land, for which the Lord swore to thy fathers Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob that he would give it them.
God has left the choice to us and His blessings, by His decree, are dependent of the choice we make.
But if it seem evil to you to serve the Lord,YOU HAVE YOUR CHOICE: CHOOSE this day that which pleaseth you, whom you would rather serve, whether the gods which your fathers served in Mesopotamia, or the gods of the Amorrhites, in whose land you dwell: but as for me and my house we will serve the Lord.
God made man from the beginning, and left him in the hand of his own counsel. He added his commandments and precepts. If thou wilt keep the commandments and perform acceptable fidelity for ever, they shall preserve thee. He hath set water and fire before thee: stretch forth thy hand to which thou wilt. Before man is life and death, good and evil, that which he shall choose shall be given him.
Blessed is the rich man that is found without blemish: and that hath not gone after gold, nor put his trust in money nor in treasures. Who is he, and we will praise him? for he hath done wonderful things in his life. Who hath been tried thereby, and made perfect, he shall have glory everlasting. He that could have transgressed, and hath not transgressed: and could do evil things, and hath not done them.
As I live, saith the Lord God, I desire not the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way, and live. Turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways: and why will you die, O house of Israel?
God does not declare that He desires only some of the wicked to turn away from their sins but all. God is pleading that the wicked change but the choice remains theirs.
Because I called, and you refused: I stretched out my hand, and there was none that regarded. You have despised all my counsel, and have neglected my reprehensions.By his sovereign command, God has given us the gift of free will so that we can freely choose to respond to his grace and love him as an act of our will.
I will number you in the sword, and you shall all fall by slaughter: because I called and you did not answer: I spoke, and you did not hear: and you did evil in my eyes, and YOU HAVE CHOSEN THE THINGS THAT DISPLEASE ME.
Wherefore I also will choose their mockeries, and will bring upon them the things they feared: because I called, and there was none that would answer; I have spoken, and they heard not; and they have done evil in my eyes, and have chosen the things that displease me.
And now, because you have done all these works, saith the Lord: and I have spoken to you rising up early, and speaking, and you have not heard: and I have called you, and you have not answered: I will do to this house, in which my name is called upon, and in which you trust, and to the places which I have given you and your fathers, as I did to Silo. And I will cast you away from before my face, as I have cast away all your brethren, the whole seed of Ephraim.
Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered together thy children, as the hen doth gather her chickens under her wings, and THOU WOULDEST NOT?
You stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always RESIST the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do you also.
The Sacraments: The Life of The Christian
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Sacraments: The Life of The Christian
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Sacraments: Opportunities of Grace
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Baptism: Initiation and Regeneration
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Sacraments: Opportunities of Grace: Reconciliation
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Opportunities of Grace: Confirmation
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Opportunities of Grace: The Eucharist: The Lord's Supper
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Opportunities of Grace: Healing/Anointing of the Sick
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Opportunities of Grace: Matrimony
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Opportunities of Grace: [Holy] Orders
The Essentials of the Catholic Faith, Part Two: Channels of Grace, The Sacraments
The Essentials of the Catholic Faith, Part Two: Channels of Grace, Baptism
The Essentials of the Catholic Faith, Part Two: Channels of Grace, Confirmation
The Essentials of the Catholic Faith, Part Two: Channels of Grace: The Eucharist
The Essentials of the Catholic Faith, Part Two: Channels of Grace, Penance
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 21: The Sacrament of Confirmation
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 22: The Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist (Holy Communion)
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 23: The Sacrifice of the Mass
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 24: The Sacrament of Penance (Confession)
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 25: How to go to Confession
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 27: The Sacrament of Extreme Unction
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 28: The Sacrament of Holy Orders (Priesthood)
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 29: The Nature of Marriage
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 31: The Sacrament of Matrimony
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 32: How to have a Happy Marriage
Maybe you have difficulty understanding English, so read this very slowly, or have someone that does read english explain it to you. I was a Cradle Catholic that was swayed by your false man made theology and left the Catholic Church. Reading the Bible, and Tim Lahaye and others like him led me right back into full communion with the Catholic Church. This was a decision based on quite a bit of studying and read the Bible cover to cover.
I will continue to pray for your soul.
Which makes absolutely no difference to what they "can" do based on your exhortations, which is absolutely ... nothing. Full determinism, as I said, puts all "can" squarely on God's shoulders. You would be more self-consistent to pray that God would lead me out of Catholicism. Even that isn't very self-consistent.
Now go read it and tell me you see nothing there.
I assume you're talking about 6:37-39?
All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. ... 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing
Nobody's talking about Jesus losing anyone of those the Father has given him. God foresees who will reprobate himself, and who will not, and he doesn't give Jesus any reprobates.
That has nothing to do with whether or not reprobation is the free choice of the reprobate, or is conditional on those free choices, or anything like that. (God foresees all of those free choices, too, but does so without coercing them.)
The context of which concerns nations, not specific individuals, and consists of Paul reasoning out what God could be doing that would cause him to leave Israel out in the cold while offering salvation to the Gentiles.
But that leads me back to an error you made in an earlier post, confusing what God can do with what God actually does do. There is no question that God is capable of completely determining every thought I have and every action I take. That's not what the argument is. The argument is over what he actually does do, most of the time.
Did the father in the Parable of the Prodigal Son drive his son away, or did he merely permit him to leave?
Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:
Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.
The Holy Spirit moves according to His will. His will be done. Welcome home dear friends.
Do you believe God saves men against their own will? Does God force men to be saved?
Unfortunately, as Christ said, you will be persecuted for your choosing Him. We find it on FR and in real life.
1 tim 3:4 says One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; -- so, if his children as unruly and not in subjection, should he then resign?
there seem to be a lot of these non-Catholic posters who think that way -- sad little people.
Because they believe that they are an elite Brahmin caste and they like to sneer -- completely unChristian...
And stronger for it, brother/sister in Christ!