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To: Hieronymus; djrakowski
"It is spelled out quite clearly that there is a continual stream of grace from God that we can cooperate with or not. If one is cooperating with grace, that is not self-determination, and if one isn’t cooperating with grace, one isn’t headed in the right determination."

This is precisely the kind of semi-pelagiansim that infects the big organizations, most particularly Rome. Of course it is self-determination, my FRiend. If you decide to say "no" to Christ, then you have determined the outcome. If you decide to say "yes", and follow the seven sacraments, you will be saved...according to the Roman Catholic Church. Men determine their fates. The doublespeak does not change your "gospel" into the Gospel. And, this is exactly what I was cautioning djrakowski about.

22 posted on 10/10/2011 2:10:48 PM PDT by Dutchboy88
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To: Dutchboy88

If we have no free will to respond to the grace of God and all is predetermined by God’s election, then why do you even bother to convince anyone of what you believe is the truth? After all, if I do not have free will what I believe or do not believe is not my choice and has been predetermined by God.


32 posted on 10/10/2011 3:10:23 PM PDT by Petrosius
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To: Dutchboy88

If you decide to say no to Christ, you have resisted grace. Whether it is real grace or not, I’ll leave it up to the Calvinists and God to settle. If you say yes and continue to cooperate with grace, you will be saved—the sacraments are a part of the cooperation with grace. Semi-pelegian holds that after an initial cooperation with grace (sinner’s prayer anyone?) no additional grace is needed. I don’t see how stating that there is a need for cooperating with á continual stream of grace’ can be labelled semi-pelegian unless one is ignorant of what the term means.


34 posted on 10/10/2011 3:17:50 PM PDT by Hieronymus ( (It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged. --G.K. Chesterton))
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To: Dutchboy88

If you decide to say no to Christ, you have resisted grace. Whether it is real grace or not, I’ll leave it up to the Calvinists and God to settle. If you say yes and continue to cooperate with grace, you will be saved—the sacraments are a part of the cooperation with grace. Semi-pelegian holds that after an initial cooperation with grace (sinner’s prayer anyone?) no additional grace is needed. I don’t see how stating that there is a need for cooperating with á continual stream of grace’ can be labelled semi-pelegian unless one is ignorant of what the term means.


35 posted on 10/10/2011 3:18:04 PM PDT by Hieronymus ( (It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged. --G.K. Chesterton))
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To: Dutchboy88

Do you believe God saves men against their own will? Does God force men to be saved?


55 posted on 10/10/2011 9:16:00 PM PDT by vladimir998
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