Skip to comments.Mitt Romney asks Rick Perry to disavow pastor; Perry says no
Posted on 10/12/2011 7:27:29 AM PDT by Colofornian
WASHINGTON Mitt Romney has a new message for those who attack his Mormon religion: back off.
On Tuesday, Romney...delivered the word to Texas Gov. Rick Perry, who again refused to reject an endorsement from the evangelical pastor who said the former Massachusetts governor is "not a Christian" and is a member of a "cult" because he is Mormon.
"I would call upon Gov. Perry to repudiate the sentiment and the remarks made by that pastor," Romney said...
Perry, through a spokesman, refused to disavow the pastor, Robert Jeffress, who heads a 10,000-strong Baptist congregation in Dallas.
It's a significant escalation between the two rival campaigns on a highly charged, emotional issue...
"Gov. Perry selected an individual to introduce him who then used religion as a basis for which he said he would endorse Gov. Perry and a reason to not support me, and Gov. Perry then said that introduction was just hit out of the park," Romney told supporters gathered at an event announcing an endorsement from New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie...
"Rick Perry's a Christian. He's an evangelical Christian, a follower of Jesus Christ," Jeffress said...
Some evangelical Christians believe Mormons are outside Christianity because they don't believe in the concept of a unified Trinity and because they rely on holy texts in addition to the Bible. For conservative Protestants, the Bible alone is the authoritative word of God and the innovations of Mormon teaching are heresy.
But Perry isn't backing down. Perry spokesman Mark Miner told the Associated Press Tuesday that Perry would not disavow Jeffress.
"The governor does not agree with every single issue of people that endorsed him or people that he meets," Miner said. "This political rhetoric from Gov. Romney isn't going to create one new job or help the economy..."
(Excerpt) Read more at deseretnews.com ...
The Mormons are escalating this into an all-out pitched battle. They are using this as an all-out PR campaign to try to once & for all, make the word "cult" equivalent to the "N" word!
From the article: "I would call upon Gov. Perry to repudiate the sentiment and the remarks made by that pastor," Romney said...
Oh, we get it. Perry, who is a Methodist, isn't supposed to stand his ground. He is suppose to impose religious beliefs on everybody who endorses him. What utter nonsense! And this is the "presidential" candidate the GOP is putting forth???
This shows you exactly what kind of religious imposition the Mormons will impose on the nation! Even people who endorse other candidates will have their religious views "repudiated!" This is the Mormon theocratic wheels grinding into full gear!!!
(Keep in mind Jeffress, the Baptist pastor, made none of these statements while introducing Perry...they came afterward when he was asked a point-blank question by a reporter)
I don’t care if Rick Perry disavows the Pastor not. I want Rick Perry to disavow In-State Tuition for Illegals.
AMEN to that!
Romney and his Mormon card.
Reid, Romney: ObamaCARE, RomneyCARE.
Is there not a single Mormon ashamed of either in the GOP?
So let me get this straight. it’s OK for Romney to criticize Perry’s religion but not OK for Perry to criticize Romney’s?
No one asked Obama to disavow his America hating pastor. Why should Perry disavow his?
This is interesting from another vantage point. Why wont any of the Christian candidates (Perry, Bachman, Cain) ask Romney to repudiate his Mormon leaders? Why wont Romney address the Lds Pearl of Great Price which references ALL Christian sects...Catholicism, Protestantism, and Orthodox -- as being 100% filled with "corrupt professors" who believe 100% creeds which apparently are an "abomination" to the Mormon god.
It seems some political candidates want unilateral disarmament from the Christian descriptors of Mormonism, yet refuse to address their own backyard as to how they frame Christian church bodies! Here, Romney and his leaders believe:
"You Christian sects are 100% wrong;
100% creedally putrid;
100% corrupt as believers...
implied as a false & dead church...
the church of Satan
Signed: Cordially, your "nice" moral Mormon candidate...
...all while this candidates' religious missionaries go on bashing Christians worldwide on doorsteps & porches, online on Lds.org, in their curricula, in their translated quad "Scriptures," in their Ensign mag articles, etc. -- talking about an alleged universal apostasy!
[Above is a summary paraphrase of Mormon statements about Christians, their creeds, and their bodies of faith]
If Romney really believed that those who speak negatively about other faiths are being uncivil -- then why no call to civility of issued toward Mormon rhetoric aimed at Christians -- such as Joseph Smith - History vv. 18-20 in the Pearl of Great Price? The Mormon church hasn't stopped publishing such nonsense for this political season, have they?
Why do you post this garbage? Get a new hobby.
Oh, cry me a river. It's as if Romney was saying, "Oh, please stop having people who allow their religious beliefs to guide their decision-making! Cause if not, how will I, a cult member, get enough voters to vote for me?"
How egotistically maniacal can you get? Everything filtered thru the lens of how it impacts Mitt Romney!!!
Mitt is the uttermost hypocrite!!!
Where was Romneys call to stop allowing religious leanings to effect voting when both Utah and Nevada Mormons voted 94% for him in 08?
Per this 2008 exit poll data:
Exit poll data from Tuesday's primary elections showed Utah Republican voters cared more about presidential candidates' PERSONAL QUALITIES THAN THEIR POSITIONS ON THE ISSUES, the OPPOSITE OF THE NATIONAL TREND of the national trend in Super Tuesday voting. Source: Romney's exit disappoints strong Utah following (Feb. 7, 2008 AP/Salt Lake Tribune)
Note: "Personal qualities" just means that Utah Mormons selected their POTUS candidate in '08 on the basis that Mitt was a fellow Mormon. So it was "OK" for them to "endorse" Romney because he was a fellow Mormon, but somehow that is "taboo" for Jeffress to do the same thing because Perry is a fellow Christian.
Can you say Romney is a two-faced hypocrite???
Afer all, 94% of Mormons in both Utah and Nevada voted for Romney in 2008:
"While the former Massachusetts governors faith has been a flashpoint in his campaign, it was perhaps one of his strongest assets in Utah, where more than 60% of the states residents share his faith. Exit poll data shows Romney swept voters across the board, handily winning every social, economic, and generational demographic in the state, as well as 94% of all Mormon voters."
(Susan Davis, Wall Street Journal, Feb. 5, 2008, Romney Wins Utah With Help From Friends [Note: The Wall Street Journal was citing MSNBC.msn.com...]
Per the Mormon Church, Mormons make up about 7.5% of Nevada's population. But according to the entrance polls so far, a whopping 25% of those who participated in the state's GOP caucusesare Mormons. And 94% of those people went with Romney.
Source: Nevada Mormons turn out for Romney (Mark Murray, MSNBC, Jan. 19, 2008)
Why do you post garbage posts? (You can’t even call them the level of a “hobby”)
My hobby is in my screen name, not tearing down others. Ride free.
At least they're not Satan worshippers like Barack Obama. What I'm not cool with is In-State Tuition for Illegals and Romneycare.
Jeffries isn’t even Perry’s pastor.
Mormon doctrine teaches that LDS are the one and only true church. Romney is a hypocrite.
(I'm sorry. I should have known that when you said I posted garbage, that was a compliment)
There is some reason this legislation passed by this kind of margin. If one is going to go after Perry for this, it's only fair to go after the entire TX legislature.
Extremely well stated.
Is it really true about the magic underwear thing?
Even if Cain is in the tank for Romney?
#7 is a brilliant point !!!
...Joseph Smith absolutely condemned ALL other Christians to Hell.
Mormons are the intolerant.
(but just like Muslims.
they both condemn all others, then complain of intolerance!)
- - -
also, i applaud Perry for not backing down.
I want a Christian President, who will speak the truth.
(I just wish Perry would tell the truth about Islam !):
” But Perry isn’t backing down. Perry spokesman Mark Miner told the Associated Press Tuesday that Perry would not disavow Jeffress. “
Why do you post this garbage?
You, who posts everything "giraffe" have the gall to actually ask a Q like this?
(Well, maybe it's because it's the only way you'll converse with me. :) And you're important to Jesus Christ...)
Feel free to post on something else & ping me...then we can discuss somethin' else! (Except I don't do giraffe threads...sorry)
(Besides, who are you to go 'round tellin' others how to run their lives?)
Romney believes in Joseph Smith. The pastor believes anyone who believes in Joseph Smith is in a cult. Why is it okay for Romney to have his beliefs but Perry and the pastor can’t have theirs?
I understand that. But I would note vote for any of those 174 members of the TX Legislature for President either.
You beat me to it.
If this is not settled now and Romney gets the nomination, watch the lib media constantly remind everyone that Romney’s religion teaches that obama’s black because of a curse. It’s still in the book of mormon.
I don’t recall Mitt Romney or his campaign staff asking the MSM or the Left to back off their onslaught over Perry’s prayer event, The Response.
I don’t recall Mitt Romney supporting Rick Perry against the smear of racism over a rock he didn’t own but painted over. Actually, Mitt joined the pile on saying it was “offensive.”
I DO recall GOP candidates upon being asked by the MSM if LDS was a cult, Perry telling them, “No.”
BUT that isn’t good enough for Mitt — or the passive-aggressive worm, Jon Huntsman.
This whole debate is just stupid when it comes to politics and Republicans are shooting themselves in the foot with it. It’s dividing and to everyone except the truly hard core, it’s not that much of an issue and makes Republicans look like extremists to independant voters.
I don’t like Romney or Perry. Neither are really conservative. But if either one gets the nomination I will vote for them because they would be still be 1000% than Obama.
If Romney wants to get someone to start being nice about religion, he can start with those snot nosed kids and then wring the necks of a few Mormon bishops who have said the same things in public many times. If Snitt does that, then I'll think he may have something in mind other than trying to look like “poor widdle Snitt, they're picking on him for his religion” the same way poor widdle Barry acted back in 2008. That gambit isn't going to work a second time so please, no one tell Snitt that he's making a fool of himself every time he brings chit like this up.
Maybe Perry is following Hank Jr’s example. Tell them to go to hell and don’t apologize.
I don’t think Romney will ever disavow anything the church teaches. Then again, I’ve been told by ex mormons that’s it’s okay to lie. What other religion teaches that? Oh, yeah. THE MUSLIMS!
Exactly. You're looking @ an early version of what a Romney Theocratically run White House would look like, with an official office of officially approved and disapproved theological endorsements.
How can we know this "baggage" Romney is showing now isn't just a flash in the pan? (Well, ya gotta know Mormon leader history...and Romney served as a Mormon Missionary, Missionary Zone Leader, assistant to Mission President, bishop and Stake President...as someone who would bring this baggage into the White House, we can expect more of the same as is stated below:)
|Lds Leader||Chronological 'Prophet' or Fundamental # (or Other Title)||Overlap Areas: Could the President of the U.S. become a 'puppet' to an Lds 'Prophet?' (The Lds Prophets -- in their own words)|
|John Taylor||Lds 'Prophet' #3||The Almighty has established this kingdom with order and laws and every thing pertaining thereto [so] that when the nations shall be convulsed, we may stand forth as saviours and finally redeem a ruined world, not only in a religious but in a political point of view. (Journal of Discourses, vol. 9, p. 342, April 13, 1862)|
|Orson Hyde||President of the Lds Quorum of the 12 Apostles for 28 years (1847-1875)||What the world calls Mormonism will rule every nation...God has decreed it, and his own right arm will accomplish it. This will make the heathen rage. (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 53)|
|Heber J. Grant||Lds 'Prophet' #7||"Elder Marion G. Romney recalled the counsel of President Heber J. Grant: 'My boy, you always keep your eye on the President of the Church, and if he ever tells you to do anything, and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it.' Then with a twinkle in his eye, he said, 'But you don't need to worry. The Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead the people astray'" (in Conference Report, Oct. 1960, p. 78)." Cited in Official Lds publication Search the Commandments: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, p. 209 (1984)|
|Harold B. Lee||Lds 'Prophet' #11||...President Harold B. Lee said: 'We must learn to give heed to the words and commandments that the Lord shall give through his prophet, '...as if from mine own mouth...(D&C 21:4-5)...You may not like what comes from the authority of the Church. It may contradict your political views. It may contradict your social views. It may interfere with some of your social life. But if you listen to these things, as if from the mouth of the Lord himself..." Cited in official Lds publication Remember Me: Relief Society Personal Study Guide I, p. 27 (1989)|
|Spencer Kimball||Lds 'Prophet' #12||"President Spencer W. Kimball said: '...We deal with many things which are thought to be not so spiritual; but all things are spiritual with the Lord, and he expects us to listen, and to obey..." (In Conference Report, Apr. 1977, p. 8; or Ensign, May 1977, p. 7) Cited in official Lds publication Come, Follow Me: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide 1983, p.12 (1983)|
|What about Marion G. Romney, cousin to Mitt's father?||Who was he in Lds hierarchy? (Title: 'President' - Top 3 of church as 2nd counselor to both #11 & #12 Lds 'prophets')||"Elder Neal A. Maxwell has said: 'Following the living prophets is something that must be done in all seasons and circumstances. We must be like President Marion G. Romney, who humbly said, '..I have never hesitated to follow the counsel of the Authorities of the Church even though it crossed my social, professional, and political life' (Conference Report, April 1941, p. 123). There are, or will be moments when prophetic declarations collide with our pride or our seeming personal interests...Do I believe in the living prophet even when he speaks on matters affecting me and my specialty directly? Or do I stop sustaining the prophet when his words fall in my territory? if the latter, the prophet is without honor in our country! (Things As They Really Are, p. 73). Cited in official Lds publication, Search the Commandments: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, pp. 275-276 (1984)|
|Ezra Taft Benson||Lds 'Prophet' #13||Benson speech given 2/26/80 @BYU. Summary: remember, if there is ever a conflict between earthly knowledge and the words of the prophet, you stand with the prophet (See excerpts re: 3 of 14 'fundamentals' below) Source: Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet|
|Benson (cont'd)||Fundamental #5||5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time. (My Q: Ya hear that Mitt Romney? Ya hear that Jon Huntsman?)|
|Benson (cont'd)||Fundamental #9||9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual. (My Q: Still listening, Mitt? Still listening, Jon?)|
|Benson (cont'd)||Fundamental #10||10. The prophet may advise on civic matters. (My Q: What say ye Mitt? What say ye Jon?)|
|Mitt Romney as POTUS???||Aside from above prophetic impositions, why would Mitt not only honor what these 'prophets' have spoken, but what a future Lds 'prophet' may tell him to do?||The Law of Consecration Oath Mitt Romney has sworn in the Mormon temple (done before marriage/sealing in temple): "You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that you do accept the law of consecration as contained in this, the book of Doctrine and Covenants [he displays the book], in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and EVERYTHING with which the Lord has blessed you, or WITH which he MAY bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion." Source: What is an LDS Church/Mormon temple marriage/sealing? [Q: Please define 'Zion': The LDS PR Web site (lds.org) defines its primary meaning: "membership in the [LDS] church."]|
It is not fair to hold Perry accountable for this without understanding the whole story.
So....Why do you post this garbage?
IMO no matter how hard the Deseret News -and the secular Media press their Mitty Boy to attack Pastor Jeffress as a paler version of Rev.Wright. Or as a more presentable image than the despotic ruler of the Westboro bunch— He is not. Neither can Rick Perry be justly compared to Barry Soetoro aka Barak Hussein Obama II. Mitty Boy is just blowing Mormon fairy dust out his organs in this political gambit.
What do they have to do with Mormons?
Romney is trying to inoculate himself against any effort to use his faith against him. At the same time, he's trying to maneuver Perry into offending evangelical voters by making some sort of statement indicating approval of Mormonism. Perry is trying to avoid the trap and use the occlusion to put a spotlight on Mitt's faith.
I think Romney has overplayed a weak hand here. He's just highlighting his vulnerability and he may even offend some evangelicals by being so prickly. Perry should point out that every faith teaches that their own beliefs are true and observe that nobody should be offended by anyone else’s beliefs.
It will be interesting to see how Mitt fares in the South.
It doesn't matter if all 50 states pass In-State Tuition for Illegals.
I am against it. And as a voter, and as a free person, I choose NOT to vote for anyone who supports In-State Tuition for Illegals because it is contrary to my values.
Ditto for Romneycare.
Ditto for Obamacare.
Tell me, if you know, are infidels allowed to go, as in just walk into a LDS TEMPLE during their services?
I would brand any church that has CLOSED secret services and rooms, as a CULT?
Masons the same thing: now don't get upset on that one. My father was a Mason, I joined Rainbow Girls. I just never understood why as Christian belonging to a "Christian" group, we needed TWO sets of teaching. I dropped out of Rainbow, discussed it with my father and soon he was not going to Masons any longer.
My mother being lonely and out in the country, asked the "Jehovah Witnesses", to come into our home for meetings. Mother wanted company, and I helped her prepare, I was about 12yrs old then. They brought their little Green Book and I listened.
Then I discussed with mother. "Mom?, didn't you notice they never once had a BIBLE, the real thing? There is something WRONG with this". She never invited them again.
No, they can't. While they have rituals for the dead and other rituals in their temples -- and no, no "Gentiles" (non-Mormons) are allowed in...actually, most Mormons don't even have a temple recommend to be allowed in...as you have to be a tithing member & you don't automatically get one as even a young adult...bishops like what Mitt Romney was asks you these Qs to see if you are "fit" to enter)
The Mormons do have services open to the public not in their temples. Not that I think they're worth attending...otherwise you might go & wind up singing about a Heavenly goddess mother in the hymn "O My Father" -- and even worse, singing worship to a man, Joseph Smith, in the hymn "Praise to the Man."
Good call. He knows if he can't get the broader media on his side now -- in standing together with him vs. Perry (the MSM would rather have Romney than Perry), then he would be sunk in the long haul anyway.
So if he can and his minions...evangelical lawyers like David French and dupester prof Richard Mouw & now even talk show host Catholic - addictive gambler Bill Bennett...all now in collusion to make it a "social crime" to mention Mormonism as a "cult" -- or even say anything negative at all about Mormonism, they gain in the PR battle.
So already this week, both D.C. papers and the Christian Science Monitor among others, have jumped all aboard Romney's new tolerance campaign. Of course, it's no surprise about either the Washington Times or the Christian Science Monitor.
Christians have long been calling Sun Myung Moon, who owns the Times, a cultist; and the Christian Science religion is one, too.
I think Romney has overplayed a weak hand here. He's just highlighting his vulnerability...
On the $.
and he may even offend some evangelicals by being so prickly
Well, he's not only being defensively prickly...but by now going on the offense and claiming that Christian candidates have to repudiate the religious beliefs of any and all people who endorse them, he's way over the edge of unveiling a mind that's based in reality! It, in fact, shows what a true cultist he is!
Cultists are all about controlling others. I posted this thread this a.m...
-- Former Mormon Agrees With Baptist Minister That 'Mormonism Is a 'Cult'
-- and if you look specifically @ post #13, criteria #3 (thought control) & #4 (emotional control) as to what constitutes a "cult," you'll see why Romney has this overreach.
You ain't seen nothin' yet as to what the Media would do to Romney & his religion if he wins the nomination. Every rock with the letter "N" will be unturned in Mormonism's history...and believe me, there are tens of thousands of such metaphorical "rocks" in the Mormon closet!
This rhetoric is like the bad old days of Catholic/Protestant sniping in the public arena.
Mitt Romney is the Mormon Al Smith. FYI, I’m a Catholic who doesn’t support Romney’s campaign.
Paul Weyrich endeavored to bridge the gap between traditionalist Catholics, Protestants, Jews in spite of theological differences.
If Jeffress represents a growing segment among politically active Evangelicals, how long before the age-old fight against the Catholic Church comes back to the fore in the political realm?
I could care less if Romney is a Mormon. As a Catholic, I have to hold my nose theologically speaking and vote for Evangelicals whose theology is just as palatable to me as Mormon theology is.
Even conservative Protestants follow what I would consider a 16th century form of liberalism.
Salvation by faith alone and sola scriptura are as pernicious in my opinion as Mormon tritheism or some of their other beliefs.
Nontheless, I don’t let that decide who I am voting for.
I will go one further than the good pastor Jeffress.
He kept saying although Romney is not a Christian, he was “a good, moral man”. What??? Here’s what I have to say. If Romney was so moral, why did he for years believe in a woman’s right to murder her own unborn child? Why did he pass homosexual marriage in the state of Mass when he was governor? He claims he’s “pro-life” now and says marriage should be between one man and one woman? Only a few years ago he was 100% immoral and liberal in going against the wishes of his faith. Romney is an opportunist. He says exactly what it takes to get elected. He was 100% liberal in Mass when he was running for governor there, and when he was running against Teddy Kennedy for his senate seat, where Kennedy beat him by
17 percentage points. Romney is also a gun grabber and believes in global warming. He is a fake and fraud and yes Mormanism is a cult, a cult that he belongs to. You do not add to the Holy Bible and expect to be taken seriously as a follower of Jesus Christ. You do put some character named Joe Smith on the same level with John the Baptist and expect to be taken seriously as a Christian. Every Morman I have ever met that was able to escape from Mormanism indeed said it was a cult. Their stories are all over the internet. Do the research. But getting back to Romney, just another filthy rich hypocrite that is trying to buy his way into the White House.
Jeffress isn’t Perry’s pastor. Perry is actually a member of the same Methodist church Bush was when he was governor. Jeffress is the pastor of 1st Baptist Dallas. Perry lives in Austin.
0bama on the other hand sat under the teachings of Jeremiah Wright for over 20 years.
Jeffress has said that he was speaking for himself not Perry and they are only acquaintances. This is simply a media driven tempest in a teapot.
Of course he’s playing the religion card. He’s wanting to redirect the conversation away from the fact that his advisers for Romneycare helped write the 0bamacare legislation and that nut John Holdren, 0bama’s science czar was Romney’s environmental adviser. The more people dig into Romney’s governorship the more they find that it was the blueprint for 0bama to get his agenda through.
I thought that Perry already said that he disagreed with the minister on the issue of Romney’s religion.