Mormon Hypocrisy

13 October 2011 | Gamecock

[annieokie]

If Religious CULT does not matter, the next step will be ISLAM. Will people still say religion/a belief doesn't matter?

I suppose those same people would just say, there are many roads to heaven, as long as you believe in something. yikes.

[reaganaut]

If Religious CULT does not matter, the next step will be ISLAM. Will people still say religion/a belief doesn’t matter?

I suppose those same people would just say, there are many roads to heaven, as long as you believe in something. yikes.

- - - - -
I had a guy on here just a few days ago although he says he’s a Christian, say that all roads lead to heaven and the Bible is the word of Man. When pressed, he wouldn’t give more detail just vague responses.

I have also seen many Freepers who say Mitt’s religion doesn’t matter, yet complain about our Muslim POTUS. Dissonance much?

[Elsie]

...so I set out to prove Mormonism false...

I think you meant 'true'. ;^)

[reaganaut]

LOL. Yeah I did. Sigh. I’m a little under the weather today. :(

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

The RCC, of course, as everybody knows, see their RCC “traditions” as that highest authority, traditions which establishes the Papacy as that highest authority. It is not the Bible alone, Papists add their “traditions” with the Bible as their authority.

As a “Papist” myself, i know none of this to be true. The Papacy nor traditions are the highest authority. The highest authority is the revealed Word of God, whether written down as Scripture or orally taught by the Apostles.

i would be careful about saying “as everybody knows” and then making a fool of yourself.

let me leave with a question to meditate on, since the Bible does not contain an inspired table of contents, how do you know which books are Scripture and which are not if not by Catholic tradition?

[T Minus Four]

If being "good" were the qualifier to get into Heaven, only dogs would go thereThat's priceless.

[sasportas]

Modern Judaism would take issue with what I said too. And their response would be similar to yours. They would say they believe in the “word of God,” meaning the Old Testament.

A Muslim would say he believes in the Old Testament. And Mormons say they believe in “the word of God.”

Sure they do, but the question is, is it their ONLY written authority? No, modern Judaism, Islam, and Mormonism have additional authoritative writings which they hold equal to, or in some cases, even superior to the Bible.

As to yourself, if there isn’t any different between Papists and Protestants, why the division between us? Obviously, it is because Protestants do not see all the stuff Papists believe in the Bible.

Such things as the body of Christ having to be in subjection to Papal Rome, Popes , Priests and Nuns, which cannot get married, Mariolatry, Rosary beads, purgatory, a plethora of pagan/Christian holidays, and so on.

Protestants don’t see any of this in the Bible. No problemo to the Papists, their authoritative “traditions” take care of all that. Which traditions are in effect on a par with the other forms of extra-Biblical authority I mentioned.

Not to mention Papists have a different Bible. To gain a sort of one-upmanship on the Protestants, they added the apocraphal books to theirs.

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

LOL, where to start???

first, you never answered my question on how you know which books are Scripture and which are not? why don’t you have the Gospel of Peter in your Bible? are you following the tradition of men?

as for the Papists having a different Bible, you are correct but you have your history wrong. The books you call the “apocrypha” were included from the very first canon put together by the Church in the 4th century. The Greek Septuigant ( the Bible of the Apostles ) contained these books. when the Protestants came along in the 16th century, they REMOVED these books from the Bible. every Bible for the previous 12 centuries contained these books, even the original King James Bible had them. so i am happy to give you this history lesson.....you did make me laugh with your comment on they were added to gain one upmanship on the Protestants, LOL!! so to follow your logic, the Protestants removed the books to try and one up the Church.

[sasportas]

Hey, one church (the RCC, that’s what your screen name is getting at I presume, typically Papist), you may be right on the Apocrapha, I don’t know, haven’t put that much effort into it. However, the test Protestants generally use is, if something, say like your Apocraphal books, aren’t specifically quoted by Jesus or any of the NT writers, they do not belong in the Bible.

As to your other thing, that’s an old horse that’s been beat to death here on FR. And answered quite well by others in other threads, in my opinion. To summarize, your presumption is flat out false, must be one of those “traditions” you’ve had drilled into your head, and hold authoritative.

There was no such thing as the Papacy when the NT canon came into being. The Papacy came along centuries later and appropriated it as something they gave to the world. Baloney.

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

it’s obvious you haven’t put much effort into very much. may i suggest in the future you put some “effort” in checking your statements before you make a fool of yourself again. your “papist” friend.

[sasportas]

You are probably twisting the facts on the Apocrapha just like everything else Papists twist - in order to make the Roman Papacy to be the one church (re: your screen name) the rest of us have to be subservient to. But I’ll let the issue lay for the time being.

For a thread that’s supposed to about Mormonism, in which I endeavored to make the point about Mormon extra-biblical authority (their writings), it appears you and I are hijacking it about the Papacy and it’s extra-biblical authority. Bye now, I’m sure you and I will meet on another thread someday.

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

no twisting of facts my friend. i am glad you realize there is such a concept as “facts”, based on your post on authority in the Papist Church, you seem like you and the facts have never met.
i am sure i will need to correct future fact free posts of yours, since you seem like you don’t know what you don’t know and more importantly, you don’t seem to care what you don’t know. “often wrong, but never in doubt” seems like a good way to describe you.

[Saundra Duffy]

“God had sex with Mary, Satan is the brother of Jesus, denial with the Trinity,”

Show me in LDS Scriptures where Mormons believe that God had sex with Mary. (I said LDS Scripture.) Show me in the Bible where God did not create Satan. The Bible tells us that we can become joint heirs with Jesus Christ. Jesus claimed to be the Son of God and Peter said so, too. Were they both wrong? Show me in the Bible the reference to the “Holy Trinity”. I believe in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

P.S. LDS folk are baptized by full immersion. And if it weren’t for my Church, Prop 8 would not have passed in CA. Good night.

[F15Eagle]

Satan is not the brother of Jesus Christ. That is the issue you tried to sidestep by redirection about Satan being created which is not in doubt. Perhaps Elsie has the links handy. Joseph Smith was a false prophet. He contradicts himself on the Garden of Eden, for example.

[Cronos]

Saundra, God created Satan but Jesus was not created. Jesus is co-eternal God with the Father and the Holy Spirit, He is not a created being.

Jesus said He was God -- and God is ONE. We follow in the tradition of the Jews who believe in the ONE God, not multiple gods (that would deny the monotheistic nature of the Judeo-Christian God.

Now either Jesus is NOT God or He is ONE with the Father and the Holy Spirit, He can't be one of many gods or we have to toss out the Old Testament and all of our Jewish heritage. And, if you say He was not God, just some created being, then He was a liar to say "I am" to equate Himself with God in the ability to forgive sins in His own name.

The scene of Jesus's baptism shows the Father and the Holy Spirit as 3, yet God is One.

The Mormon philosophy of multiple gods negates all of the OT and Christianity.

[Cronos]

P.S. LDS folk are baptized by full immersion. And if it weren’t for my Church, Prop 8 would not have passed in CA. Good night.

1. if LDS folk are baptised by full, partial, whatever immersion, they are still not baptised in the name of the ONE God, so it doesn't matter -- it is a Mormon baptism, not a Christian one.

2. If it wasn't for your religion (unfortunately, Mormonism is not a Church, it is a separate religion distinct from Christianity) Prop 8 would not have passed in CA -- thank you.

Mormonism is a separate religion, not Christianity for the simple reason that you do not believe in ONE God and that Jesus is God with the Father. Anything any proposition denies either Judaic belief or that Jesus is God.

[Cronos]

Finally, Saundra, Mormonism rests on the fiction that there were Semitic peoples in pre-Columbus America and that the Native americans are descended from these Semites.

This is wrong

There is zero archaeological evidence for Semites in pre-Columbus America, no trace of such cities, no trace of Old World technology among the Mayas, Olmecs, Toltecs, North Americans, nothing. There is no story in Native American history of these Semitic peoples or their customs

The Native American people are genetically not at all Semitic, rather Tungushic

The Native American peoples speak languages which are quite distinct from Semitic -- completely different language families

I'm afraid, Saundra, that J. Smith was the L Ron Hubbard of his day, even positing a fake language like "Reformed Egyptian" (no one ever explains why Israelites who had left Egypt centuries earlier and had their own language and the Aramaic script would use Egyptian -- and the examples of this writing given are little more than scribbles.

[Elsie]

Who ISN’t??

(Well... them folks in SpaceLab are ABOVE it....)

[Elsie]

Show me in LDS Scriptures where Mormons believe that God had sex with Mary. (I said LDS Scripture.)

We know you did.

Why do YOU disavow all of the TEACHING that MORMON leaders have said about it?

Spirit of Apostacy is POUNDING on your door!

[Elsie]

Why do YOU disavow all of the TEACHING that MORMON leaders have said about it?

Brigham Young said,

"I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call scripture."

(Journal of Discourses 13:95).

[Elsie]

I'm afraid, Saundra, that J. Smith was the L Ron Hubbard of his day, even positing a fake language like "Reformed Egyptian" (no one ever explains why Israelites who had left Egypt centuries earlier and had their own language and the Aramaic script would use Egyptian -- and the examples of this writing given are little more than scribbles.

---

The "Caractors" are the only tangible evidence in existence related to Smith's story. No gold plates, no brass plates, no peep stones, no Urim and Thummim... only these "Caractors," not a single one of which is in the purported languages.

---

 

Smith's translation of the Caractors. According to Martin Harris (Joseph Smith - History, 1:64), "I went to the city of New York, and presented the characters which had been translated, with the translation thereof, to Professor Charles Anthon, a gentleman celebrated for his literary attainments. Professor Anthon stated that the translation was correct, more so than any he had before seen translated from the Egyptian. I then showed him those which were not yet translated,* and he said they were Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic; and he said they were true characters."

Speak right up now in all truthfulness. Isn't it revealing how Smith started out making a stab at creating believable "caractors" but quckly gave up and produced nothing but squiggles, ending up wih a series of nothing more than crude little scribbles? Yet Professor Anthon supposedly translated them!

---

*Harris must have had two or three pieces of paper with him—one with characters and a translation of them (on the same paper or a separate one) and one with untranslated characters—quite likely the "Caractors." Some Mormon "scholars" have gone out on a limb, sawed it off, and knocked themselves out trying to translate from these true Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic characters a segment that would correspond with a verse from 1 Nephi.

---

Modern-day experts in Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic. In 1829, any knowledge of these languages possessed by U.S. scholars would have been rudimentary at best. Expertise in them has vastly improved since then. So go ahead, do it. Get any modern expert in these languages to identify which of these "Caractors" are Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac and Arabic. Better still, accept the claim of Mormon apologists that Anthon did indeed so testify and that his appraisal of the Caractors was correct. (Op. cit, pp. 73-75)

Save your money! Samples of Assyriac/Aramaic and Arabic writing:

     .
 

     .
 

      .

 

What say you? Which of Smith's "Caractors" resemble the Assyriac and Arabic ones? No need to pay experts for their analysis. A child could accurately check this out. These writing systems have remained constant for well over 3000 years.

[Notary Sojac]

The doctrines of conventional, trinitarian Christianity were not codified until several hundred years after Christ.

Many of the earliest Christians held to concepts that you would probably consider heretical.

Speaking personally as an atheist, I don't see much difference between doctrines compiled by Catholic bishops in the fifth century and doctrines compiled by Mormon bishops in the nineteenth.

[reaganaut]

The doctrines existed and were taught, the codification came as a result of the Gnostic twisting of Scripture in very similar ways to the LDS.

Give me an early Christian (not Gnostic) doctrine I would disagree with.

[F15Eagle]

Do you have the reference about Satan, maybe it was Moses 4:1? Thought thered was something in Nephi but didn’t save the reference.

[Cronos]

The doctrines of conventional, trinitarian Christianity were not codified until several hundred years after Christ.

False. the doctrines of trinitarian Christianity were confirmed 300 years after Christ, but they were held from Apostolic times as orthodoxy.

Christians from the beginning held that:
1. Jesus Christ is God
2. Christianity is the fulfilment of Judaism and there is ONE God

Put those two together and you have doctrines that do not hold to Mormonism or Gnostic views

Catholic bishops in the fifth century -- the Nicene Creed dates from the 300s, what are you talking about the 5th century?

Mormon doctrines are:

1. contradictory to the Judaic concept that there is ONE God
2. contradictory to all that Christians or even heretics have believed since Apostolic times
3. Based on a piece of fiction -- that there were Semites in pre-Columbus America

[Elsie]

Speaking personally as an atheist, I don't see much difference between doctrines compiled by Catholic bishops in the fifth century and doctrines compiled by Mormon bishops in the nineteenth.

Of course.

[Elsie]

Do you have the reference about Satan,

I don't exactly what you mean.

[F15Eagle]

The false premise he is the brother of Jesus - here is one part of the lie - I found it and can post it now.

1 And I, the aLord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That bSatan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the cbeginning, and he came before me, saying—Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will dredeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely eI will do it; wherefore fgive me thine honor.

2 But, behold, my Beloved aSon, which was my Beloved and bChosen from the beginning, said unto me—cFather, thy dwill be done, and the eglory be thine forever.

http://lds.org/scriptures/pgp/moses/4.1-2?lang=eng

[Elsie]

Anyone else just HATE all the idiotic reference links that are on so MANY of the words of the BoM online?

Let me clean it up:

1 And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, saying—Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor.

2 But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto me—Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever.

[F15Eagle]

Smith - it is TBN Bible vs. Joseph Smith tonight at 11pm Pacific - maybe you could post new thread with link for internet viewing - I cannot from this device.

[F15Eagle]

Ping and somebody add links plz to above and/or start new thread.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“Show me in the Bible where God did not create Satan.”

And of course, no one ever said God did not create Satan as good.
What was said was that God did not create Jesus Christ, who is eternally
God, neither created, nor made.

Mormons, in yet another heresy, claim Christ was a created spirit being.

Saundra, if you are really a Christian, come out from among them and be
holy.

[F15Eagle]

Hoping someone can start a thread _ internet streaming links are to be found there if somebody can post them too

[Tennessee Nana]

And if it weren’t for my Church, Prop 8 would not have passed in CA.
_____________________________________________

Well I dont know about that

But if it weren’t for your so called “church” Roe V Wade would not have passed in 1973...

[POWERSBOOTHEFAN]

Most Jews do not believe that we are the one true faith,although you have Jews who do believe that. I do not believe that my particular branch of Judaism is superior to the others. I am not so cocky to say that it is.

[who_would_fardels_bear]

"I am not so cocky to say that it is."

Others, evidently by the posts that litter this thread, are not quite so modest as you.

[Colofornian]

Show me in LDS Scriptures where Mormons believe that God had sex with Mary. (I said LDS Scripture.)

More outright Mormon hypocrisy (on Saundra's part). Note Saundra's emphasis that it be "Lds Scripture" (vs. Lds leader statements).

She is implying here that she knows Lds leaders teach that the Mormon god had sex with Mary. Her fallback position then is to stress Lds "scriptures."

You see, Mormons and the Mormon church want to have their cake and eat it, too. They stress to the world that they have a "living prophet" who "whatsoever they shall speak when moved upon by the Holy Ghost shall be scripture, shall be the will the Lord, shall be the mind of the Lord, shall be the word of the Lord, shall be the voice of the Lord..." (Lds "scripture" Doctrines & Covenants 68:4).

But seemingly these days, when we cite the Mormon leaders speaking forth "revelations" that are rather embarrassing for the Mormon grassroots, they toss both their general authorities under the bus and take scissors to D&C 68:4 & remove that from their "scriptures."

[Colofornian]

How is it anti-Christian? They prosyletize, but so do Catholics and Protestants. [who_would_fardels_bear, post #22]

Are you kidding? Or uninformed? Every guy who comes to your door disparages Christianity. The very foundation of mormonISM is disparaging Christianity. Every thing they say and do disparages Christianity. [svcw]

Mitt Romney's father's cousin, Marion Romney, was one of the three highest-ranking Mormon leaders in the 1960s. Marion emphasized to Lds missionaries at that time that the so-called "universal apostasy" and "restoration" should be one of the top 3-4 mentions of missionaries when they went door-to-door.

All "universal apostasy" means is an accusation to every Christian and every Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox church that they went AWOL or they were "birthed" from AWOL spiritual parents and therefore are not "legit." IOW, the Mormon church missionaries, trained by the Mormon church and the Romneyites, consider the Christian denominations to be spiritual bastards. Just like the Muslims deem as as "infidels."

You really can't go around labeling us as infidels, apostates, spiritual bastards, Babylon, and the like and consider that a "compliment" or "Kum-ba-yah" Christian harmony, WWFB.

Gamecock is right. The Mormons are out-and-out hypocrites on this. They have been intolerant of the Christian church from the get-go...and yet they scream for tolerance. They have been intolerant from Christians from the get-go...and yet they scream to be recognized as "Christians."

Tell you what. Let's see the mainstream Mormons start to allow all the minority Mormon sect breakaway groups be called "Mormon," too, and then we can talk once they've addressed their own 2-faced hypocrisy.

[Godzilla]

"whatsoever they shall speak when moved upon by the Holy Ghost shall be scripture, shall be the will the Lord, shall be the mind of the Lord, shall be the word of the Lord, shall be the voice of the Lord..." (Lds "scripture" Doctrines & Covenants 68:4).

Of course mormons are aware of this - and it just goes to show the bipolar nature of mormon belief. I'll bet most anything that SD along with other mormons were glued to their tv/computers during the recent general conference - waiting to hear what the latest revelation from 'god' would be uttered. Were mormons to be consistent - they would have paid less attention because these people were only giving their "opinions".

Just as it was abundantly clear that bring'em young taught as DOCTRINE the Adam/God, others taught other 'doctrines' that modern lds reject as opinions. They refuse to face the fact then that by downgrading those 'doctrines' to 'personal opinions' they've also designated those prophets and apostles as false teachers and false prophets.

Follow the prophet - he will never lead you astray is the matra, except of course that their 'false teachings' (as defined by modern lds as 'opinions') lead you astray.

[Elsie]

Others, evidently by the posts that litter this thread, are not quite so modest as you.

You gonna name names; or just tar everyone with your big brush?

[Elsie]

...the bipolar nature of mormon belief. ...

[Elsie]

Follow the prophet - he will never lead you astray is the matra, except of course that their 'false teachings' (as defined by modern lds as 'opinions') lead you astray.

Not just the old PROPHETS leading you astray; but just try following MORMON scripture (D&C 132) That'll get you EXCOMMUNICATED!!!

[Dagnabitt]

I can’t wait until the day that Romney concedes the nomination race, so we can be spared further anti-Mormon threads like this.

[Gamecock]

You mean anti-Mormon threads that demonstrate how Mormons are anti-Christian?

[Elsie]

I can’t wait until the day that Romney concedes the nomination race, so we can be spared further anti-Mormon threads like this.

It ain't gonna happen!

Game ON!!

We CHRISTIANs are going to CONTINUALLY be exposing the heresy that calls itself MORMONism.

Those deceptive ads, I'm a MORMON that appear as though the state LOTTO Commission paid for them; will soon end. As soon as the SLC bean counters have deduced that they are NOT bringing in more deceived folks, but have actually ALERTED them to the LIES of MORMONism.

[Elsie]

Why no, Ma'am; FR is NOT a good place to be learn the things we want you to know about MORMONism.

[Dagnabitt]

All that hate is going to eat you up.

[Elsie]

All that hate is going to eat you up.

I know; I've got teeth marks all over me!

---

 

---

Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).

Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).

 

 

Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses  5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses  8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses  8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses  10:230).

Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).

 

 

Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses , vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).

 

President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).

James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).

 

 

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).

 

 

More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).

President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).

 

 

President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

[Notary Sojac]

3. Based on a piece of fiction -- that there were Semites in pre-Columbus America

Pardon the possible thread drift, but I see "Native Americans came from Israel about 2500 years ago to what would one day be the United States" as being no more incredible than "Every animal species on Earth is descended from a M/F pair that rode out a flood on a wooden boat 5500 years ago".

[Cronos]

Good argument. However, let's break this down:

1. Proof: Can we prove that Native Americans are not descended from Semitic peoples? yes -- all the proof: historical, linguistic, archaeological, anthropological and genetic point to that
in contrast -- can we prove the there was no flood that threatened to wipe out mankind? -- there is no proof for it, but none against. And specifically tot he point that every animal species -- the Bible says in Genesis 6:20 Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive not every animal, so of course not the fish. Nor does it specify that every animal species presently on Earth is descended from these, though it is implied.

2. Relevance to dogma -- Let's take Noah's ark's story here. If is it "shown incorrect" does it in any way change Jewish or Christian dogma? No, not really. Is it central to dogma? No.

in contrast to Mormonism, the idea of Semites in pre-Columbus America is central to dogma as that's the theme of the book of Mormon.