Is Mormonism a Cult?

Truth in Action Ministries ^ | 10-14-2011 | Truth in Action Ministries

[reaganaut]

Thanks. I think I am going to go through the list and make a post about how the LDS do all those things.

[reaganaut]

Who is pitting brethren against brethren, Mormons are not our brethren in Yah’shua.

[patlin]

Mormons are not our brethren in Yah’shua

IOW, you can read the heart & mind of YHVH? You do know that those who live in glass houses should be the last to be throwing stones, don't you?

[greyfoxx39]

But if Christianity is a life and death battle with powers and principalities and rulers in high places then the cultist is an agent of enemy forces luring unsuspecting people to their destruction. His teachings must be openly opposed to make the differences between his gospel and God’s gospel evident to all.

Well said.

[reaganaut]

Excellent post.

[reaganaut]

Yah’shua did not speak of jotts & tittles in Mat 5:17-20 just to hear Himself speak.

- - - -
jots and tittles didn’t exist then, the words in the Greek are iota and horn.

The tone I am getting from you is you seem to have a distaste (and I am being generous) for anyone who is not a Messianic Jew. The one I am seeing in darkness is you .

[reaganaut]

This MUST be stopped by its membership.

- - - —
But it won’t be and that gets back to its dogma. The membership is to never criticize its leaders (upon threat of apostasy) even if that criticism is true (that is from an actual quote by one of their apostles)

Mormons do whatever their leadership tells them. Been there, done that.

The reason LDS have become more pro illegal immigration and open borders is because their only gain in membership is coming from South and Central American countries (and Mexico) primarily from groups who do not have internet access and have high illiteracy rates. Illegals in this country are also a good source of converts to a church that is hemorrhaging members daily.

Vendome did some research on LDS church growth and illiteracy rates awhile back.

[Vendome]

couldn't agree more.

 

The point of posting LDS authored stories is part of the Proselytizing .

 

Certainly, when LDS knocks on the door of an "Apostate" they expect objections.  Otherwise, why have the Student Manual for Missionaries, in which, they have points and counter points to their non-believers or what could be more accurately called Non-members of the LDS.

 

In fact, LDS missionaries search out opportunities for conversion in the less educated parts of the world where illiteracy is extremely high.  By that, I mean, if one looks at the efforts of LDS in countries south of the American border, you will find illiteracy rates that are in excess of 70%.

 

There is no point in disputing the numbers.  I have been involved in literacy programs for 5 years and the fact is, you can more easily sway someone, with emotion and power of persuasion, who does not read  or more importantly cannot read.  They have no real ability to study or collect thoughts of reason based on information contained within them or discovered by study.  Nothing to study if you can't read, you just take others words for truth.

 

Where is the proof that LDS efforts and growth at directed at countries with lower illiteracy rates?

10 New Missions to be Created, 14 to be Discontinued

Ireland Dublin Mission, one of the missions in Chicago, and a mission or two in Australia will be discontinued.

 

New missions include Peru Cuzco, Guatemala, Philipines, Democratic Republic of Congo Lubumbashi and more.  All new missions being formed outside the U.S. are in areas that have indisputably high illiteracy rates. 

 

A new mission in St George, Utah will stretch all the way to Farmington, New Mexico and is likely being built to support LDS immigrants to the areas of  traditional LDS communities.

 

However, it is interesting to note the total number of missions worldwide will fall by four from 344 to 340.

 

 

Now to the Student Manual for Missionaries and their program for conversion.

 

President Gordon B. Hinckley explained the importance of the Book of Mormon in relation to the Church and the Bible:
“If the Book of Mormon is true, the Church is true, for the same authority under which this sacred record came to light is present and manifest
among us today. It is a restoration of the Church set up by the Savior in Palestine. It is a restoration of the Church set up by the Savior when he visited
this continent as set forth in this sacred record.

 

Okay, so the reasoning is the same as defense of the Bible, which unlike Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, etc, has historical proof of certain events and the geography, where the events took place, is undisputed and the Bible is very stark proof of it's own provenance.

 

Gordon Hinckley continues:

"If the Book of Mormon is true, the Bible is true...."

 

And yet LDS claims the Bible to be rife with mistakes, lost books or purposely misleading.  This while they claim right to the very same scriptures, but maintain interprations of convenience, by way of contrivance.

 

President Benson also offered inspired counsel regarding how to use the Book of Mormon to respond to objections investigators(read possible converts) may have to the restored truths of the gospel:
“We are to use the Book of Mormon in handling objections to the Church. . . .
“. . . All objections, whether they be on abortion, plural marriage, seventh-day worship, etc., basically hinge on whether Joseph Smith and his successors were and are prophets of God receiving divine revelation.

 

• Here, then, is a procedure to handle most objections through the use of the Book of Mormon.
  “First, understand the objection.
  “Second, give the answer from revelation.
  “Third, show how the correctness of the answer really depends on whether or not we have modern revelation through modern prophets.
  “Fourth, explain that whether or not we have modern prophets and revelation really depends on whether the Book of Mormon is true.

So LDS recognizes there are real objections to their faith and to be fair so does Traditional Christianity.  Both have plans for conversions with the key difference between the two being as follows:

 

Church of Christ Latter Day Saints:

Their premise is that most converts come from the foundation of Traditional Christianity, which forms the basis of belief for their doctrine, which is of a slightly different story.  They hold that converts are worshipping Apostate Religions and they are the One True Church and therefore the only arbiters of ones future when it comes to eternal salvation.

 

No reason to look further than where ever you find Christians you will find LDS missionaries teaching a new way of thinking,  a new road to salvation and of a superior system that plays to man's innate vanity and hope to be something  more, such as deifying oneself through work.

 

But first they start their premise with unworthiness and shame the Christian into believing they have been had.  With no real defense of literacy and learnedness the most important decision in one's life is now called into question.

 

What will you do?  If the Book of Mormon is true and your heart is open to learning it's truth, you can be saved.  Bit of a canard and a highly charged emotional question that is a leading question of conscious, heart and spirit.

 

Traditional Christianity:

Here we find missionaries seeking out converts not from other religions but from souls of sola fide(by faith alone) and those very converts come from areas where God, in the light of Traditional Christianity, are not understood by lost souls nor has the salvation of Jesus Christ reached them yet.  Here we can think of China, North Korea, Middle East or Russia where God is a challenge to their authority, especially in the form of Christianity and is therefore outlawed.

 

The difference in Christianity and Mormonism goes to Sola Fide.

 

In Sola Fide we find salvation by God's grace and Jesus paying the ultimate sacrafice and the only path to eternal salvation and it is brought to you by faith alone that your pardon is secure, forever, through the gift of God, who recognizes that man could never hope to work his way to heaven or pay for his salvation as he is an imperfect being.

 

And so "For God so loved the World, he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life".

 

Mormons teach a version of God's greatest gift but if comes with qualifiers.  Their belief, in direct contradiction to historical Christian Doctrine, is one must some how become worthy to enter into God's kingdom.  How does one become worthy? There is no answer of specific definition, only that you must perform certain works showing your worthiness and that Joseph Smith will be the one who approves your "Passport" to heaven.  Yes, they do use the term passport in their doctrine, though one wonders what information should be contained in that passport.

 

 

And yet God tells "For all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God"  "There is none worthy, No, not one".  Seems pretty clear that God didn't even bother so single anyone out just lumped us all into a definition of lesser beings, who has shown great mercy on despite our incredible shortcomings.

 

Jesus tells us"Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God". (John 3:4-5)

 

Paul in his letter to the Ephesians:
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” -Ephesians 2:8,9

 

“Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.” –James 2:19.  This presents a huge conflict with Mormon belief that one can become a god, just like God.  It doesn't appear God agrees or approves.

 

“Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” –James 2:18.  So we are being presented with what the effect of faith is and that is: a belief, truly of the heart and spirit, will result in works demonstrating your walk in and with Christ.  It will be plainly apparent and motivated by spirit to excersise works of God in daily action or in specific witness of testimony.

 

Now in the Student Manual for Missionaries, of LDS, on page 77 we find the beginning discussion of Apostacy, in which the LDS begin to lay the foundation for proof of a foul religious belief and that theirs is the one and only true way:

Under the direction of Jesus Christ, the priesthood and the Church were restored through His servants.
The Restoration dispelled the darkness of the Apostasy. Priesthood authority was restored.
Through the Prophet Joseph Smith, the Lord organized His Church again upon the earth so that the saving principles and ordinances of the gospel could be correctly administered in order to help people come unto Christ.

 

President Gordon B. Hinckley also bore witness that the Church of Jesus Christ has been restored:
“This is the restored Church of Jesus Christ. . . . We testify that the heavens have been opened, that the curtains have been parted, that God has spoken, and that Jesus Christ has manifested Himself, followed by a bestowal of divine authority.

 

“Jesus Christ is the cornerstone of this work, and it is built upon a ‘foundation of . . . apostles and prophets’ (Ephesians 2:20)” (in Conference Report,
Oct. 2002, 87; or Ensign, Nov. 2002, 81).

Really?  How can Mormons possilby quote scripture from a book that was organized in the fourth century and specifically call out scripture by chapter and verse, even though they have their provenance in other religions, which are antithetical to your belief and an apostacy in the view of LDS?

 

And now begins the teaching of conversion from other faiths and the superiority of Mormonism with their unique and new scripture:

 

Elder Robert D. Hales of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles explained that faith is part of the fertile ground that nourishes conversion:
“The first seeds of conversion begin with an awareness of the gospel of Jesus Christ and a desire to know the truth concerning His restored Church.
‘Let this desire work in you’ (Alma 32:27). A desire to know the truth is like a seed which grows in the fertile ground of faith, patience, diligence and
long-suffering (see Alma 32:27–41). . . .

 

The Church of Christ Latter Day Saints makes no pretense as to who their target market is for conversion.

 

Elder Dallin H. Oaks taught that conversion requires a complete willingness to give up all practices contrary to the teachings of the restored
gospel:

“The gospel of Jesus Christ challenges us to change. ‘Repent’ is its most frequent message, and repenting means giving up all of our practices—
personal, family, ethnic, and national—that are contrary to the commandments of God. The purpose of the gospel is to transform common
creatures into celestial citizens, and that requires change” (in Conference Report, Oct. 2003, 39; or Ensign, Nov. 2003, 37).

 

So I could finish a whole dissortation on the subject of specific market converts and what LDS has to say about their doctrine but, suffice to say they are well aware of opposition to their faith and have a plan to counter objections.

 

Also, we are given specific demands of faith, by LDS, in their writings.  So why the opposition to being "called on the carpet" as it were?

 

I think down deep, many in LDS know there are some real challenges in the history of their formation, by "Apostles" and "Prophets".  They also know their founders had some real errors of heart and spirit, such as having several wives and even taking the wives of other men and then having those men officiate or act as witness to their wife being taken by another man.

 

Talk about losing your way.  I mean, what man would accept that god had commanded and ordained another man to take his wife?  Where would you scriptural imprimatur for such a thing?  No where.

 

I will expand on this later but that about does it for today.

[reaganaut]

However, you read “church” because that is what the English transliterated it to be from Roman Latin & what your religious dcotrine tells you it is, but the orginal Greek calls it ecclesia, assembly, the “gathering of people together in one place for a specific purpose” either religious or political.

- - - —
On that you are correct.

[reaganaut]

The DOCTRINE of the Trinity is in the Bible, even if the word isn’t. Interesting to note that the LDS use the word ‘atonement’ which wasn’t invented until the 16th century yet get caught up on the word Trinity.

[patlin]

jots and tittles didn’t exist then, the words in the Greek are iota and horn

IOW, you believe Hebrew & Aramaic, which is a form of Hebrew and the language that our Messiah spoke, was no longer existent during the time Messiah walked & preached on earth? He'll be interested to know that. The Greek text came out of Egypt, but the house of Judah who returned after captivity in Babylon remained faithful to the Hebrew. You might want to study the history of the Greek Septuagint before proffering more lies of the religious doctrine of man.

When the Greeks interpret Messiah as saying I am the “Alpha & the Omega”, they were taking this from the Hebrew/Aramaic text that said “I am the Alef & the Tov” which it is 1st & last words of the Hebrew alphabet. Do you think the Greeks came up with this on their own & out of some great revelation they had? In Hebrew the “Alef-Tov” is the definition of the heart of YHVH. Genesis begins with the Alef and Deuteronomy ends with the Tov. The Torah is the heart of YHVH in which YHVH declared the end from the beginning. The fact is, our Messiah was Jewish from infancy to death. He was not a Greek Christian and the only religious buildings Yah'shua Messiah taught in were the Jewish synagogues.

the tone I am getting from you is you seem to have a distaste(and I am being generous) for anyone who is not

I have no distaste for any person. I do however have much distaste for religious doctrine that persecutes & labels any person of any other religious doctrine based on their own religious doctrine rather than using the pure Scripture (Torah) that the Yah’shua Messiah & Apostles used in teaching. Did not our Messiah sit down with sinners in order to bring the Truth to them rather than persecuting them? The only people Yah’shua Messiah rebuked were those of His own religion, The Pharisees, Sadducee & Scribes because of the oral law/legalism they had burdened their people with. They had put their own religious doctrine above that of the Father thereby corrupting the integrity of YHVH & His good name.

Mt 7: 1 “Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

It might behoove the persecutors of Mormon doctrine to 1st place their own religious doctrine in the Light of YHVH’s heart which is His Torah, before running out and boasting of their own religious doctrine's righteousness over that of others.

[patlin]

the word ‘atonement’ which wasn’t invented until the 16th century

Permit me to make a correction

the word ‘atonement’ which wasn’t "translated into English" until the 16th century

However, “kippur”(Strong's H3725, prim root H3722) is 1st revealed in YHVH’s Hebrew in Exodus 29 and further defined in Leviticus 23:26-32, the High Sabbath(convocation) of Yom-Kippur, the day appointed chosen by YHVH and set aside for the annual atonement for sins of the ecclesia by the High Priest. It is a permanent regulation that is to be observed forever.

[patlin]

The DOCTRINE of the Trinity is in the Bible, even if the word isn’t

The fact that the word trinity does not even exist on YHVH’s Hebrew language should give one pause as to the origins of this religious doctrine of men who profess it

The Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon

Search Results: Trinity
No entries found matching ‘Trinity’
Your query for ‘( | )trinity( | )’ in the ‘Hebrew Lexicon’ failed to return any results

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

let’s see if patlin is willing to answer these questions if the doctrine of the Trinity is false:

is YHVH God?
is Jesus God?
is the Holy Spirit God?
finally, is there only One God?

these questions can all be answered yes or no.

[patlin]

let’s see if patlin is willing to answer these questions if the doctrine of the Trinity is false

asked and answered days ago, but since you seem to enjoy following me around as if to show off some religious superiority over interpreting the Scriptures you have by attacking a brethren rather than having a healthy midrash, for the record I will post them again

__________________________________________________________ No, not answered — you say that He is the Messiah, but you do not answer a simple yes/no question — is He God or not?
179 posted on Monday, October 10, 2011 1:35:53 PM by Cronos (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2787101/posts?page=58#58)

___________________________________________________________ Monday, October 10, 2011 3:19:41 PM · 182 of 225
patlin to Cronos
is He God or not?

Your going to have to ask YHVH as I am not qualified to answer that which He did not directly speak to. You see, I'm having trouble with the whole right hand thing. Does that mean He is literally sitting on His hand or is His hand sitting upon a chair separate from Him? Only He can tell us & He will and at the time He chooses.

I don't need to know these things, I only need to know & trust that YHVH is the One & Only Elohim & that Yah’shua is His Only Son & The Word made Flesh. That the Torah instructions, all of them, were meant for all who are called by His name and are to be kept for ever. And never shall The Father, The Son or those who are called by His name be separated from the instructions of The Word.

__________________________________________________________ Tuesday, October 11, 2011 12:47:32 AM · 205 of 225
Cronos to patlin

thank you for explaining your position. If you wish to continue believing that, that is your choice. I have no issue — you are free to believe what you wish and so am I — I ask that you reciprocate that.

___________________________________________________________ Thursday, October 13, 2011 11:47:39 PM · 35 of 58
patlin to one Lord one faith one baptism

YAH’SHUA IS ETERNAL GOD HIMSELF

In the beginning He was with YHVH, He was YHVH, He was with YHVH. Even the inspired Word of YHVH is not ready to reveal this mystery of the one who sits at the right hand, on the right hand, at the right hand. The fact is, Scripture tells us that Yah’shua is not yet on the throne, thus the mystery continues, but my heart is at peace as knowing this mystery is not a prerequisite for salvation. That is what true faith is, peace through hope without knowing or seeing.

Romans 8:24 It was in this hope that we were saved. But if we see what we hope for, it isn't hope - after all, who hopes for what he already sees? 25 But if we continue hoping for something we don't see, then we still wait eagerly for it, with perseverance.[CJB]

At this point in time, Yah'shua Messiah remains seated at the right hand of His Father acting as High Priest with authority over forgiveness of sin, not judgment. Period. YHVH will reveal the rest in due time, but until then any religious doctrine of man that claims any else is just that, religious doctrine of man that has no definition in the only dictionary YHVH gave us; which is His Torah.

[reaganaut]

IOW, you can read the heart & mind of YHVH?

- - —
No nor did I claim it. But I DID used to be Mormon and they do not follow or believe the Bible (Tanakh or NT). I don’t know why you are defending them, they are not believers in Yah’shua. Not at all. Their theology makes them non-believers.

[reaganaut]

IOW, you believe Hebrew & Aramaic, which is a form of Hebrew and the language that our Messiah spoke, was no longer existent during the time Messiah walked & preached on earth?

- - - -
Wow, you certainly are paranoid and obsessed with claiming I said things I have not.

The WORDS jot and tittle are coined much later. And the Hebrew vowel points are a result of the Masorites again after Christ.

I have read and studied the LXX, I have degrees in Biblical Studies and theology and extensive coursework in Greek and Hebrew. You are making assumptions that are not valid.

You obviously know NOTHING about Mormonism or you would not defend them. My theology is carefully scrutinized as a result of having been Mormon. I wasn’t going to make the same mistake again as a Christian. You have no clue to don’t chastise me for something you don’t know about when I LIVED IT. Capice? Finally from what I have seen from you, your doctrine is the one that is questionable. I have seen bad history from you, a lack of knowledge of the primary texts, and verses taken out of context. Take the plank out of your own eye.

[patlin]

they are not believers in Yah’shua

neither are Orthodox Jews, so your point is?

[reaganaut]

The ENGLISH word wasn’t CREATED until the 16th century. Other words appear in the MSS prior. My comment stands.

[reaganaut]

FACEPALM. I just said the doctrine exists even if the word does not.

But I am seeing why you are defending Mormonism, you don’t get it either.