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Who Is a True Jew?
BibleProphecyBlog.com ^ | October 19, 2011 | Dr. Tony Garland

Posted on 10/19/2011 2:40:04 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta

Q. In the Old Testament, the terms "Israel," "Jacob," and "Jew" all seem to clearly be applied to the grandson of Abraham, the son of Isaac, the man Jacob and his physical descendants (Gen. 32:28; 35:10). But in the New Testament, the terms "Israel" and "Jew" are used in passages which are more difficult to understand which some interpret as teaching that faithful Gentiles are described as "Israel" or "true Jews" (e.g., Rom. 2:28-29; 9:4; Gal. 6:16). Can you shed some light on this?

A. I believe that much of the confusion concerning the use of the term “Israel” in the New Testament - and especially whether it refers to believing Gentiles - can be cleared away by recognizing that although, consistent with its use in the Old Testament, the term always denotes those who are physical descendants of the man Jacob, there are also passages where the writer desires to call attention to a subset from within the physical descendants of Jacob who also share the faith of father Abraham. Here are some principles to consider when reading such passages:

Who Is a True Jew?

A key distinction which must be kept in mind is to notice that the New Testament never refers to Gentile believers as the seed of Isaac or children of Jacob. Instead, “those who are of faith are sons of Abraham” (Gal 3:7-9,29). This is because we Gentiles who believe participate in the unconditional promise which God gave to Abraham, “In you all the families of the earth shall be blessed” (Gen. 12:3 cf. Gal. 3:8). The way in which the Gentiles participate in this promise is through their identification with Abraham’s descendant Jesus, having believed upon Him by faith. Instead of being sons of Isaac or sons of Jacob, our relationship as Gentiles to the New Covenant covenant goes back to its very source in the promises given to Abraham who is called the “father of all those who believe” (Rom. 4:11) - both believing Jews and believing Gentiles (Luke 19:9; Rom. 4:11-18). This is the root of the cultivated olive tree into which believing Gentiles have been grafted and unbelieving Jews have been cut off (Rom. 11:16-18). [2]

After warning the church of Philippi concerning unbelieving Jews, where Paul is emphasizing that true circumcision is of the heart, the most he will say is “we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh”. Thus Paul contrasts spiritual circumcision of the heart by faith with physical circumcision, an external rite which in and of itself does not produce saving faith. If there was ever a passage where Paul could clearly redefine Israel to mean believing Gentiles this is it, yet he does not go that far. Even here, Paul is not really teaching anything new because this theme is strongly taught within the Old Testament (e.g., Deu. 10:16; 30:6; Ps. 119:70; Jer. 4:4; 9:26; Eze. 36:26; 44:7).

I hope this helps to clarify the way in which the New Testament addresses the issue of physical descendants of Israel verses Gentiles who are children of Abraham by faith - but still Gentiles (Gal. 2:12,14; Eph. 3:6).

Endnotes:

[1] Concerning the believing remnant, see 1Ki 19:18; 2Ki 19:4; 2Ki 19:30; 2Ki 21:14; 2Ki 25:22; Ezr 9:8; Ezr 9:15; Isa 1:9; Isa 6:13; Isa 7:3; Isa 10:20-22; Isa 28:5; Isa 37:4; Isa 37:31-32; Isa 46:3; Isa 59:21; Isa 65:8; Jer 5:10; Jer 5:18; Jer 23:3; Jer 44:28; Jer 50:20; Eze 5:3; Eze 5:12; Eze 6:8-10; Eze 9:8; Eze 9:11; Eze 11:13-16; Eze 12:6; Eze 14:22; Joe 2:32; Mic 2:12; Mic 5:7-8; Mic 7:18; Zec 11:10; Zec 13:8-9; Ro 9:6; Ro 9:27; Ro 11:5; Ro 11:17; Ro 11:25; Ga 6:16; 1Pe 1:1; Re 12:17
[2] A common error in interpreting this passage is to mistake the cultivated olive tree with its root as denoting Israel such that believing Gentiles are joined to Israel. But the root concerns the promises made to Abraham as the father of the faithful. Also, unbelieving Jews who are called “Israel” in this passage are broken off from the tree with its root. Thus, the tree and its root cannot be Israel.


TOPICS: General Discusssion
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Excellent, educational, enlightening article. There is a diagram at the link.
1 posted on 10/19/2011 2:40:08 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
Well that's just 'Wanderful'...


2 posted on 10/19/2011 2:54:18 PM PDT by tflabo (Restore the Republic)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
Pop the popcorn...this should be another interesting thread.

How about letting True Jews say who is a True Jew?

A True Jew is a Jew who is A) Born of a Jewish Mother and B) Holds fast to the Torah, writings and prophets, passed down from Moses to now.

Gentile Christians should not hold fast to being the seed of Abraham but Noah. Noah was given a covenant for all mankind. Abraham, Issac and Jacob etc...were given the covenant for Jews.

3 posted on 10/19/2011 2:59:41 PM PDT by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

This is hilarious. A protestant prophwxy blog derining “Jew”

No true Jew would take this idiocy seriously.


4 posted on 10/19/2011 2:59:50 PM PDT by Judith Anne ( Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of our death.)
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To: blasater1960
The writer of the piece is just going by Scripture.

I understand that there will be many who have a problem with that, Scripture being optional and all, but there it is.

It'll be interesting to see if anyone actually is able to Biblically dispute the article.

5 posted on 10/19/2011 3:01:54 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: Judith Anne
It's really knee-slapping.

What will be even funnier is the contortions some people will twist themselves into trying to deny all the Scripture that was provided to support what the writer is saying without being able to give Scripture to support their own position.

6 posted on 10/19/2011 3:03:49 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
It'll be interesting to see if anyone actually is able to Biblically dispute the article.

Seriously? Piece of cake...give me a few minutes.

7 posted on 10/19/2011 3:12:12 PM PDT by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: blasater1960
Well, the thing is you're not going to take into account anything from the New Testament which is going to cloud your response somewhat.

I'll be interested to read what you have to say, but unless it includes what the New Testament has to say on the matter, we probably won't come to any sort of understanding.

8 posted on 10/19/2011 3:14:59 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

blah blah blah. True Jews my Aunt Fanny. Any true Jew in my family would laugh in your face at the ignorance you post.


9 posted on 10/19/2011 3:24:44 PM PDT by Judith Anne ( Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of our death.)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
I have been taught that a Jew is from the tribe of Judah. The rest are Israelites.
10 posted on 10/19/2011 3:28:22 PM PDT by Spunky (Sarah Palin on Polls "Poles are for Strippers and Cross Country Skiers")
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To: Judith Anne
Wow. The article must have hit a nerve for you to be so hostile to someone who has never been hostile to you.

Can you refute the article with Scripture? That's the only thing that counts. Can you do it?

11 posted on 10/19/2011 3:35:55 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

“Excellent, educational, enlightening”..

I say!

and add,,,,,

Insightful, illuminating, informative..

And the diagram!!!!!!!

A perfect manifestation of the reason why we are all here at FreeRepublic,

I must say


12 posted on 10/19/2011 3:40:34 PM PDT by nkycincinnatikid
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

According to Genesis, a true Jew is anyone who is descended from the tribe of Judah. Everyone else from the other tribes are israelites.


13 posted on 10/19/2011 3:40:43 PM PDT by rabidralph
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

Thanks for posting this. Gentiles are NEVER going to be Jews. Not literally, not spiritually. As much as some would like to believe they are spiritual Israel, they fool themselves. God made no covenants of promise with us. That is why the dispensation of the grace of God is so wonderful. His offer of reconciliation through the finished work of Christ took down the middle wall of partition that separated Jews from Gentiles. And declared us equal before Him. But this time isn’t forever. It will come to an end. And the middle wall of partition will be back up. God will once again be dealing with Israel as a Nation, the promises He made to them will be fulfilled, and Gentiles will be blessed through Israel, just as God promised Abraham.


14 posted on 10/19/2011 3:50:33 PM PDT by smvoice (The Cross was NOT God's Plan B.)
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To: smvoice
Thank you, smvoice! You always say things so well and make things so easy to understand!

I've never seen the Scripture about this laid out so well and in such detail until this article. It really solves the issue of exactly who is a Jew - the fact that there is a physical Israel that has a future in the plans of God and living descendents of Abraham with the necessary DNA for Jewishness and Gentiles are nowhere to be found in that mix.

15 posted on 10/19/2011 3:56:39 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: Spunky
The members of the tribe of Judah were also included in the term "Israelites." I believe the term "Jew" first starts to appear about the time of the exile to Babylon. Whether descendants of the other tribes living in Judaea or in the diaspora under the Roman Empire saw themselves as Jews or as Israelites belonging to another tribe, I'm not sure. The Samaritans were mainly descended from the northern tribes (allegedly with intermixture with Gentiles settled there) and they are portrayed as hostile to the Jews in the New Testament.

St. Paul insists on his being of the tribe of Benjamin, but I think he may sometimes include himself among "the Jews." St. Luke has him doing so in a speech at Acts 21.39 and 22.3.

16 posted on 10/19/2011 4:00:44 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

why do you keep denying Scripture?

Romans 2:28-29

For he is not a real Jew who is one outwardly, nor is true circumcision something external and physical. He is a Jew who is one inwardly, and real circumcision is a matter of the heart, spiritual and not literal. His praise is not from men but from God.

why do you keep denying Scripture?


17 posted on 10/19/2011 4:33:06 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
... true Israel consists of true Jews who, like Paul, are both physical descendants of Jacob and share the faith of Abraham (Luke 3:8). The unbelieving descendants, by rejecting the faith of their physical father Abraham, are said to have a different father - the devil

The author says Paul was part of true Israel beacuse he is of Jacob and the faith of Abraham? False!

Deut 12 :32 Whatever I command you, you shall be careful to do; you shall not add to nor take away from it.

Deut 4:5 “See, I have taught you statutes and judgments (F)just as the LORD my God commanded me, that you should do thus in the land where you are entering to possess it. 6 So keep and do them, (G)for that is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the peoples who will hear all these statutes and say, ‘Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.’ 7 For (H)what great nation is there that has a god (I)so near to it as is the LORD our God (J)whenever we call on Him? 8 Or what great nation is there that has (K)statutes and judgments as righteous as this whole law which I am setting before you today?

9 “Only (L)give heed to yourself and keep your soul diligently, so that you do not forget the things which your eyes have seen and they do not depart from your heart (M)all the days of your life; but (N)make them known to your sons and your grandsons.

Did Paul take away from the law? Yes. Did Paul teach the law as paseed down from Father to son? No! Therefore he was NOT of the faith of Abraham, of whom G-d said:

I will establish the oath which I swore to your (Issacs) father Abraham.5 because Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws.

Did Paul teach the law, statutes and commandments? No! Paul is NOT of the faith of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. Nor did the Jews of that time reject the faith of Abraham by rejecting Jesus. NEVER does the OT EVER say that there must be "faith" in a messiah or you are not saved. NEVER.

The author is repeating the same tragic misunderstanding of scripture that Abraham was "saved" by faith. That is just nonsense. Abraham believed in G-d PROMISE...not in G-d Himself...and that what was recognized as righteousness. Abraham had long ago had "faith" in G-d and left his fathers house! By the time he had "believed" in G-ds promise he had already built 2...2! sacrifical altars! Why? And did G-d affirm his covenant to Isaac because of Abrahams faith? NO!!!!!! because Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws.” Not faith! He kept the law!

So it is the "unbelieving" Torah Jews, who have kept the law for 3500 years...passed down from father to son, who are of the faith of Abraham not the gentiles or "believing Jews".

More? In the messianic era, what is taking place?

Isaiah 2:3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

Jer 16: 19O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.

Ezek 44: 7In that ye have brought into my sanctuary strangers, uncircumcised in heart, and uncircumcised in flesh, to be in my sanctuary, to pollute it, even my house, when ye offer my bread, the fat and the blood, and they have broken my covenant because of all your abominations.

8And ye have not kept the charge of mine holy things: but ye have set keepers of my charge in my sanctuary for yourselves.

9Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger (Gentile), uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.

Zechariah 8:23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts: In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold, out of all the languages of the nations, shall even take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying: We will go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.'

So, what do we see here? A) The nations will stream to Zion, to Jerusalem, to LEARN THE LAW. B)The Gentiles shall come from all over the earth to Israel. Why? Because they have inherited lies! C) When the 3rd temple is built, even the gentiles MUST be circumsized spiritually AND physically to be in G-ds Sanctuary. What? Paul says that circumcision is bad! But Circumcision is still very much a part of life in the messianic era? How can that be? Paul is wrong.

The Gentiles come to Israel to learn the LAW. They acknowlege they have inherited lies. They must be circumsized to enter G-ds house. It will be world wide.

Do the Jews ever come to some other faith? No The nations abandon their false faith.

18 posted on 10/19/2011 4:36:37 PM PDT by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: Judith Anne
A protestant prophwxy blog derining “Jew”

An obsession of a certain school of interpretation.

No true Jew would take this idiocy seriously.

I suspect you are correct.

"But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God. "

"They answered him, 'Abraham is our father.' Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham's children, you would be doing what Abraham did, ...You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires.' "

19 posted on 10/19/2011 4:36:56 PM PDT by Lee N. Field ("And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise" Gal 3:29)
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To: blasater1960

John 8:21-30
English Standard Version (ESV)

21So he said to them again, “I am going away, and you will seek me, and you will die in your sin. Where I am going, you cannot come.” 22So the Jews said, “Will he kill himself, since he says, ‘Where I am going, you cannot come’?” 23He said to them, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.” 25So they said to him, “Who are you?” Jesus said to them, “Just what I have been telling you from the beginning. 26I have much to say about you and much to judge, but he who sent me is true, and I declare to the world what I have heard from him.” 27They did not understand that he had been speaking to them about the Father. 28So Jesus said to them, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he, and that I do nothing on my own authority, but speak just as the Father taught me. 29And he who sent me is with me. He has not left me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to him.” 30As he was saying these things, many believed in him.

please note, Jesus said to the unbelieving Jews of His day, they would die in their sins unless you believe I AM HE.


20 posted on 10/19/2011 4:46:18 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
Once again “Adam”(carnal flesh) tries to explain something their heart can not comprehend because what they write does not come from the heart but the carnal mind.

Who are the Jews? YHVH tells us directly who they are

Jeremiah 31:31 [ The New Covenant that is ratified in the NT ] “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah

Gentile = goyim = nations = out of covenant

The house of Isra’el(Ephraim, out of covenant thus are called gentiles) that was scattered never came back from Syria after captivity. They would become gentiles because they would follow the ways of the pagans but always would have Torah in their heart and why they were drawn to follow certain Torah instructions, i.e. Sabbath worship behind the 3ft wall of separation. It is why so many were baptized back into the covenant during the 1st century.

Amos 9:9 “ For surely I will command, And will sift the house of Israel among all nations"

melo-ha-goyim = mutitude of gentiles/nations

Genesis 48:19 But his(Joseph) father refused and said, “I know, my son, I know. He(Manasseh) also shall become a people, and he also shall be great; but truly his younger brother(Ephraim) shall be greater than he, and his descendants shall become a multitude of nations.”

The house of Judah(Jews) came back after captivity in Babylon and have since preserved the integrity of YHVH’s Words(the Torah & the writings of the Prophets) in written form but in practice, not so much(Talmud-oral law added to by the carnal flesh)

The warning Paul was giving to the ecclesia in Philippi was not to fall back into the burdens(yokes) of the oral law of the rabbinical Talmud that said salvation only comes after circumcision and these Rabbis kept track of every person they baptized as a sort of honor to themselves as to their works. Pagans were never part of the covenant, but they have always been welcome should they chose YHVH and say "I Do" to HIS Torah marriage contract which is Torah.

Does Torah say all males are to be circumcised, yes. Is it required for salvation, NO! Circumcision of the heart is accepting Torah and then as one learns, they start doing what YHVH commands them to do. It is not an overnight conversion in which everything is revealed at one time. YHVH is very patient with HIS children in order that they not stumble, but if they do, HIS grace has always been there to pick them up and get them back on the right path.

21 posted on 10/19/2011 4:48:02 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: patlin

see post #20


22 posted on 10/19/2011 4:49:51 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
It'll be interesting to see if anyone actually is able to Biblically dispute the article.

Why would any true Jew bother?

23 posted on 10/19/2011 4:52:53 PM PDT by Judith Anne ( Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of our death.)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

I’ve read your stuff before. You have a reputation fot hostility yourself, cookie.


24 posted on 10/19/2011 4:59:56 PM PDT by Judith Anne ( Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of our death.)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
please note, Jesus said to the unbelieving Jews of His day, they would die in their sins unless you believe I AM HE

Matthew 19:17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

1 John 2:4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him

One who believes that Torah was abolished and thus does not believe they have to do as it says and can continue in the practices of pagans, has not said “I DO” to the New covenant and therefore should be the last one to pointing out something YHVH Himself declared will be until HE returns. We need to be working on getting the abominations out of our own houses, not that of Judah.

25 posted on 10/19/2011 5:13:10 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: patlin

John 6:28-29
King James Version (KJV)

28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent


26 posted on 10/19/2011 5:18:26 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
please note, Jesus said to the unbelieving Jews of His day, they would die in their sins unless you believe I AM HE.

The author of the book of John, makes that claim. Written around 80-100 AD. A long ways away from the time of Jesus. And if Jesus was G-d, why didnt he write even one word of his own? G-d Himself, wrote the Ten Commandments but Jesus couldnt write his own thoughts when paper and pen existed? I do not accept the NT.

27 posted on 10/19/2011 5:19:00 PM PDT by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: blasater1960

well, you have put your finger on why you and i will never come to agreement. the question every person must deal with is “Who is Jesus Christ”? if the answer is anything less than the Son of God who became man to live a sinless life and willingly give up His life on the cross as a sacrifice for the sins of the world and rise from the dead, ascend into heaven where He reigns over His Kingdom, than you will die in your sins. if you reject the New Testament, you reject Jesus.


28 posted on 10/19/2011 5:28:43 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: blasater1960

“Jesus couldn’t write his own thoughts”

Come to think of it,
He couldn’t even save his own life.

Barabbas was da man.


29 posted on 10/19/2011 5:32:10 PM PDT by nkycincinnatikid
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

The reason this question has such renewed interest is because of the Land of Israel. Does it belong to B’nei Ysirael (Children of Israel - Jew has no official meaning, it’s merely a nickname), or does it belong to Christians? And if it belongs to Christians, which ones?


30 posted on 10/19/2011 5:36:45 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: jjotto

God is not concerned with geography. Jesus Kingdom is not of this world.

He is concerned on whether a soul is in the kingdom of darkness or in the Kingdom of His beloved Son.

the real promised land ( heaven ) does belong to the Israel of God, the Church, the Body of Christ.


31 posted on 10/19/2011 5:44:17 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
that ye believe on him whom he hath sent

He came as Himself, Spirit & Word. I guess you haven't been back around the thread block lately

Let US make man in OUR image...

Yes, there are religious denominations that believe that too. However, for Scriptural discernment it is critical to study Hebrew & understand Hebrew idioms. "Let us" and “in our image” does not refer to two beings nor does it refer to our fleshly form as YHVH Elohim is without form. You cite from Gen 1:26; however let us take a look at what YHVH says in HIS expanded historical account of the verse in Gen 2:7

7 Then ADONAI(the Hebrew text shows Yod-Hey-Vav-Hey, YHVH, the name of our Elohim), God, formed a person [Hebrew: adam, man not Adam the man's name; carnal flesh] from the dust of the ground [Hebrew: adamah] and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, so that he became a living being

A carnal Greek mindset of the reading of Gen 1:26 does lend a carnal mind to think of the fleshly form first, but in Hebrew the adjective always follows the noun so one must go to Gen 2:7 to get the adjective and that adjective is “breath of life” which is “Spirit & Word”

Because Adam(carnal flesh) ignored the “Spirit & the Word” man fell into a continual corruptable carnal state of mind. From that time YHVH has been working to get HIS children to give up the carnal & turn back to the “Spirit & Word” for that is the image, the substance of YHVH our Elohim

When YHVH returns are we to be looking for a carnal image? Heaven forbid! For if we set our eyes on the flesh, we will be fooled by the deceitful one who comes in HIS name claiming to be HIS image. But if our hearts cling fast to the “Spirit & the Word” which has been constant from the beginning, that has never changed, is always eternal, then we will not be deceived.

Therefore it was YHVH, the “Spirit & the WORD” that came as our Messiah in the form adam(man - Spirit & Word) in order that Adam(carnal flesh)would recognize & understand HIM. We also must look to the history at Mt Sinai where the people trembled at the voice of YHVH because it was so powerful. When YHVH chose Moses to be the mediator(Adamaic high priest) between HE and the people, YHVH prophesied about HIS title as High Priest that HE would need to establish on earth as it is in HIS Kingdom. YHVH also knew that HE Himself would eventually have to come at a later set time because YHVH knew Adam (carnal flesh) would ignore HIM by continuing to add & take away from HIS Word. YHVH came as Yah’shua to instruct HIS children to cast off rabbinic legalism & follow HIM only.

The yods & strokes Yah’shua spoke of in Mt 5:18 are very, very, very, very, very importantif one is to understand what YHVH is saying to us. Thus the reason one can not discern the truth by just reading & studying in English & Greek.

In Gen 2:4 YHVH says “these are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created”. The Hebrew letter “Yod” which also represents the hand of YHVH in certain words appears 2x in the Hebrew spelling of generations.

The next appearance of generations comes in Gen 5:1 “This is the book of the generations of Adam”. This time the 2nd “Yod” is missing from the word generations. The hand of YHVH was removed because Adam(carnal flesh) had corrupted the “Spirit & the Word”.

Through Torah & the Prophets the word “generations” is never spelled the way YHVH intended it to be because Adam(carnal flesh) continued to corrupt YHVH’s “Spirit & Word”. That is, UNTIL we get the the Book of Ruth.

Ruth 4: 18-22 "Now these are the generations of Pharez:... and Obed begat Jesse, and Jesse begat David"

By restoring the 2nd “Yod”, the hand of YHVH, to the word "generations" YHVH prophesied that the adam(man-Spirit & Word) HE would come in as the Messiah would come through the seed of Ruth(born a gentile & through devotion to Torah & marriage to Boaz became a member of the house of Judah) which would bring forth the House of David & this adam(man)would be without blemish.

2 Samuel 22:47 “The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be my God, the Rock, my Savior!
Isaiah 17:10 You have forgotten God your Savior; you have not remembered the Rock, your fortress
Isaiah 43:3 For I am the LORD your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior
Psalm 18:46 The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God my Savior!
Psalm 25:5 Guide me in your truth and teach me, for you are God my Savior, and my hope is in you all day long
Psalm 27:9 Do not hide your face from me, do not turn your servant away in anger; you have been my helper. Do not reject me or forsake me, God my Savior
Psalm 42:5 Why, my soul, are you downcast? Why so disturbed within me? Put your hope in God, for I will yet praise him, my Savior and my God
Micah 7:7 But as for me, I watch in hope for the LORD, I wait for God my Savior
Habakkuk 3:18 yet I will rejoice in the LORD, I will be joyful in God my Savior
Luke 1:47 and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior
1 Timothy 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the command of God our Savior
1 Timothy 4:10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people
Titus 1:3 and which now at his appointed season he has brought to light through the preaching entrusted to me by the command of God our Savior
Titus 2:13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior
Jude 1:25 to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority

The Apostles were not saying “God our Savior”out of any new NT revelation or NT teaching by Yah'shua that spoke of abolishing Torah as the NT did not existed at the time, therefore one can not use it to define the teachings in it because the unblemished adam named Yah'shua was YHVH. The Apostles only taught from the ONLY Scriptures that they had been taught from all their lives. The reading of Torah(Moses) and the writings of the Prophets they heard every Sabbath in the synagogues. Teachings & readings they studied diligently because Torah instruction was placed above all other subjects from their childhood.

Messiah is the title of the anointed High Priest of Isra’el through which all forgiveness is mediated. We use this title as affirmation that in deed, YHVH walked the earth in the flesh as Yah’shua. YHVH did not form a new man, he came in the for of adam(man).

Savior is the title of the deliverer of forgiveness and salvation

Yah’shua(Jesus) is the name given to the flesh means “God Saves”

We are to pray to YHVH for forgiveness “in the name(title) of Messiah who HE came as, but we are never to place the title of the flesh as having any power over that of our One & Only Elohim. And especially we do not place the name given to the flesh as having any power.

As prophesied, YHVH took the High Priesthood away from corrupted Adam(carnal flesh) and placed it back where it was always intended to be, in HIS “right hand”(another entire teaching in and of itself) because corrupted Adam(carnal flesh) thought they had the power to say how salvation is received & who receives it according to their rabbinic legalism(Talmud-oral law not given by YHVH). Cornelius! Man may be corrupt, but he was never “unclean”.

This is why the red banner(part of the sacrificial ritual of the scapegoat) placed on the Temple on Yom Kippur never turned white again after Yah’shua died(the name given to the flesh in order for the final blood atonement). The Adamaic(carnal flesh) high priesthood of Leviticus was taken away, never to be used again. The only way for Adam (carnal flesh) to receive forgiveness is to go straight to YHVH in the name(title) Messiah, the renew High Priest. The blood sacrifice from the Levitical Temple service was forever rejected. It was not taken away by Yah’shua the flesh, it was taken away by YHVH in the shedding of the blood of Yah’shua and it was Prophesied from the beginning that is MUST happen.

In our business I have many titles, but I am still only one being. YHVH has many titles and HE has never been anything but ONE being.

I have to say it is quite interesting reading religious history and all the Christendom bashing of Jews for killing their Elohim(God). Yes indeed, these historians knew exactly what they were saying. Too bad they cast off the front of the book, Torah & the Prophets, as irrelevent in order to be just like the Pharisee & Sadducee that Messiah rebuked. they became just like those who YHVH rebuked when he spoke as adam(man). Yes, carnal religious minds all think alike no matter the denomination.

The “Son”, Word brought in the form of flesh, is a metaphor for how all of YHVH’s children are to be. The “Son”, Yah’shua, was the living breathing “Spirit & Word” that was first breathed into adam(man) in the beginning. The Word brought in the form of flesh was our physical example and that flesh never strayed from the “Spirit& the Word” because not one of his actions was his own. Not one action, not one word was from his flesh or carnal mind; from birth to death.

We are to be examples of YHVH’s “Son”(adam in Gen 2:7), “Spirit & Word” not sons (Adams of the fallen flesh).

32 posted on 10/19/2011 5:44:32 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: blasater1960
I do not accept the NT

The NT is YHVH’s testimony, one of HIS witnesses that HE was here among men in order to restore HIS house that had been broken in two.

I understand why you do not accept it. YHVH will tell you all about it when HE says it is time for the house of Judah to no longer be blind in part.

Shabbat Shalom! May your final day of Sukkot be joyous & full of celebration.

33 posted on 10/19/2011 5:52:10 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: patlin

“in the form of flesh, was a metaphor....”

Jesus is true God and true man, he ate, slept, got tired, cried, laughed, etc. no metaphor, true man.


34 posted on 10/19/2011 5:52:50 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
Yes you can read but that is only half of discernment

We are to close prayer “in the name of Messiah” as our affirmation that YHVH truly did walk in the form of adam(man) among Adam(carnal flesh) however, our prayers are always to be directed directly to YHVH only; not through any earthly being. If one truly wants the truth, then there is only ONE Being in the universe who can open the door to the truth which resides in the heart of each & every human being. It all starts with the heart as that is where the "Spirit & Word" lives within us. YHVH is the only one with the key to our hearts, not Adam(carnal flesh) dressed in religious garments.

Truth lives in all our hearts waiting patiently for us to ask YHVH to turn the key in the door of our hearts in order for the "Spirit & Word" to begin to pour out.

35 posted on 10/19/2011 6:10:40 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: Judith Anne
Do you think this article could be interpreted as possessing anti-semitic overtones? Currently, most Jews are secular humanists, agnostic in belief, who identify with the culture of being Jewish. They are constantly vigilant protecting themselves against those who they fear will force them to convert to some fundamentalist denomination.

The support the fundamentalists lavish on Israel is interpreted by many Jews as being subterfuge for the secret aim to convert them to Christianity.

At recent High Holy Day Services as well as in the Jewish media, there is much discussion of how to ward off the unwelcome advances of these evangelicals who prowl about in sheep's attire but are ravenous wolves.

The Jews are now on the streets forcefully debating Messianic Jews proselytizing fellow unsuspecting Jews.

36 posted on 10/19/2011 6:43:24 PM PDT by proe
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
Consider that the word “Jew” is the English transliteration
of Hebrew Y˒hudi, from the root “yadah,” which means
“to give thanks, to praise, to confess openly and freely.”
To be a true Jew is to be someone who gives thanks to God,
praises God, and confesses God, his Word, his truth
and his love, openly and freely, who is in a close
relationship with him
Stern, D. H. (1996, c1992). Jewish New Testament Commentary
: A companion volume to the Jewish New Testament (electronic
ed.) (Lk 15:15). Clarksville: Jewish New Testament Publications.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

37 posted on 10/19/2011 6:54:59 PM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: UriĀ’el-2012

according to Paul, the true Jew is one who believes in Jesus Christ. this is why the Church is the Israel of God.
if you belong to Christ, you are an heir to the promises made to Abraham. if you reject Christ, you will die in your sins.


38 posted on 10/19/2011 7:00:50 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: patlin

Thank you Patlin. Do you celebrate Sukkot?


39 posted on 10/19/2011 7:33:57 PM PDT by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
if you reject the New Testament, you reject Jesus.

Yes..I do reject the NT. Just the fact that there is a NT means he was not the messiah. It wont take a NT to convince people when messiah comes. It will be perfectly clear, from the least to the greatest, no ambiguity and it will take NO faith.

40 posted on 10/19/2011 7:40:32 PM PDT by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: blasater1960

you are correct in the sense when Jesus comes again, every eye will see Him in all His glory and everyone will know He is the Messiah. No NT will be required. no faith will be required. the only difference is that day will be judgement day and it will be too late to turn to Him for forgiveness of your sins. now is the day of salvation.


41 posted on 10/19/2011 7:57:29 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: Verginius Rufus
I have read and it appears to be well documented that the term Jew was coined when the King James version of the Bible was printed.

Supposedly the term used until then meant a person who lived in Judea,many of them were from the tribes of Judah and Benjamin with some priestly Levites in the mix. The word used to describe them was Iudeceans and was so clumsy and awkward that the translators decided to use the term Jew.

In Judea there were also Greeks,Romans and various and sundry others and the term was not exclusive to the Old Testament religious Israelites from the tribes of Judah and Benjamin.

Since Jesus said He came to find the lost sheep of the tribes of Israel I think it's probable that multitudes can and are the lost sheep who traveled to other lands,were conquered during wars,lost the faith and,or were assimilated into other nations and culture.

I think we will all be much better off when this dawns on mankind.

42 posted on 10/19/2011 7:58:19 PM PDT by saradippity
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
turn to Him for forgiveness of your sins.

I am sorry but human sacrifice is forbidden. Blood sacrifice is not required. Dying on a cross is not a sacrifice...it is suffocation. His blood was not sprinkled on the horns of the altar. His fat and ofal not burned. Etc....not a sacrifice.

43 posted on 10/19/2011 8:39:25 PM PDT by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: blasater1960

please read Isaiah 53.

the animal sacrifices were types and shadows pointing to the One Sacrifice that reconciles us to the Father.


44 posted on 10/19/2011 8:51:45 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
please read Isaiah 53

Read it hundreds of times. It is not about Jesus. There are several mistranslations of the Hebrew that make it "appear" to be about him but it is not.

types and shadows pointing to the One Sacrifice

That cant be. Again...G-d forbids human sacrifice. Look what G-d says about it.

(Israel) Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them (the pagans), after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou inquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. Thou shalt not do so unto the Eternal thy God: for every abomination to the Eternal, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods. [Deuteronomy 12:30-31]

God calls Human sacrifice something that He hates, and an abomination to Him

In Jeremiah, God tells us that Human sacrifice is so horrible a concept to Him, that it did not even come into His mind!

Jeremiah 19:4 Because they have forsaken me, and have estranged this place, and have burned incense in it unto other gods, whom neither they nor their fathers have known, nor the kings of Judah, and have filled this place with the blood of innocents; They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind:

Same thing in Psalm 106 and in Ezekiel 16

And yet we are to then turn around and believe that God changed His mind, and required human sacrifice, and then it was the sacrifice of His own human son that God wanted? G-d hates it, it is an abomnination, so horrific it never enters His mind.... but then G-d copies the pagans? Acts like a pagan? After telling the Jews to stay away from pagan practices, and pagan beliefs, God then changes His mind and says, "Okay, now go ahead and believe in a human sacrifice, just as these very pagans believe?" NO! Animal sacrifice was not a shadow or type. Read Ezekiel 44. The sacrifical system is returning. Why? If Jesus was THE sacrifice. Answer: He wasnt a sacrifice..G-d hates human sacrifice.

H/T Reb Federow

45 posted on 10/19/2011 10:22:00 PM PDT by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: blasater1960
Do you celebrate Sukkot?

I am in rural country(cows & corn all around me) with no true ecclesia to join in. A couple in the the city not far away say they are but have yet to cast off pagan traditions so I do my best by myself to celebrate at home with extended prayer, wonderful Hebrew inspired music & study time in The Word. I worship live online every weekly Sabbath & when the Festival services are aired live. Otherwise I catch the Festival services after they are posted so I do not miss out on any learning YHVH sends out to the nations.

I did purchase a copy of the Siddur & Mishnah from Art Scroll to help guide me in Sabbath rest, Festival worship & daily living. They have been a wonderful tools that I have come to cherish. But I do not just stick to Hebrew books, I welcome any & all wisdom from my brethren in the house of Judah that will add to my understanding of the Scriptures that was kept blind for so long. Rabbi Daniel Lapin, Jeremy Gimpel & the Temple Institute have helped me greatly.

Shalom! Shalom!

46 posted on 10/19/2011 10:22:21 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: proe
The support the fundamentalists lavish on Israel is interpreted by many Jews as being subterfuge for the secret aim to convert them to Christianity...evangelicals who prowl about in sheep's attire but are ravenous wolves...The Jews are now on the streets forcefully debating Messianic Jews proselytizing fellow unsuspecting Jews

This is why I will not join an ecclesia that does not adhere to what YHVH instructed. This practice of conversion to any religious sect goes against every word of the Scriptures. Hold fast to your faith & your heritage. YHVH has your back!

Shabbat Shalom!

47 posted on 10/19/2011 10:31:43 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: patlin

Excellent!...you’re in good hands...:o) Awesome to hear! Baruch HaShem...


48 posted on 10/19/2011 10:36:54 PM PDT by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: blasater1960
Just for clarification, I use NT only because the term is easily understood by Christians. However...The Apostles never meant for there to be a “new” book and as far as I am concerned the page that says "New Testament" should be ripped out of every bible on this earth that contains it. In fact, the Apostles had no idea their writings & letters would become part of a book therefore, anyone that tries to interpret the books of Matthew through Revelation by using Matthew through Revelation is highly mislead & uneducated.

One day it will be revealed by YHVH that the Scriptures were Genesis to Revelation with no division what so ever between the front and the back. And when HE starts teaching HIS children that were lead astray, they are going to find themselves immersed in Genesis through Deuteronomy, just as it has always been if one wants to enter the gates of HIS Kingdom. What a shock that is going to be to them!

49 posted on 10/19/2011 10:46:45 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
when Jesus comes again, every eye will see Him in all His glory

How will you know to recognize HIM? How will you know when to be looking for HIM? How will you know when judgment day is here?

Mt 24:36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven,[e] but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. 43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

1 Thess 5: 1 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day.

It is not our brethren in the house of Judah that are in darkness. They are the ones who are the sons of light that we are to be learning from lest we find ourselves as those that persished in the days of Noah.

50 posted on 10/19/2011 11:04:05 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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