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To: GiovannaNicoletta
... true Israel consists of true Jews who, like Paul, are both physical descendants of Jacob and share the faith of Abraham (Luke 3:8). The unbelieving descendants, by rejecting the faith of their physical father Abraham, are said to have a different father - the devil

The author says Paul was part of true Israel beacuse he is of Jacob and the faith of Abraham? False!

Deut 12 :32 Whatever I command you, you shall be careful to do; you shall not add to nor take away from it.

Deut 4:5 “See, I have taught you statutes and judgments (F)just as the LORD my God commanded me, that you should do thus in the land where you are entering to possess it. 6 So keep and do them, (G)for that is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the peoples who will hear all these statutes and say, ‘Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.’ 7 For (H)what great nation is there that has a god (I)so near to it as is the LORD our God (J)whenever we call on Him? 8 Or what great nation is there that has (K)statutes and judgments as righteous as this whole law which I am setting before you today?

9 “Only (L)give heed to yourself and keep your soul diligently, so that you do not forget the things which your eyes have seen and they do not depart from your heart (M)all the days of your life; but (N)make them known to your sons and your grandsons.

Did Paul take away from the law? Yes. Did Paul teach the law as paseed down from Father to son? No! Therefore he was NOT of the faith of Abraham, of whom G-d said:

I will establish the oath which I swore to your (Issacs) father Abraham.5 because Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws.

Did Paul teach the law, statutes and commandments? No! Paul is NOT of the faith of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. Nor did the Jews of that time reject the faith of Abraham by rejecting Jesus. NEVER does the OT EVER say that there must be "faith" in a messiah or you are not saved. NEVER.

The author is repeating the same tragic misunderstanding of scripture that Abraham was "saved" by faith. That is just nonsense. Abraham believed in G-d PROMISE...not in G-d Himself...and that what was recognized as righteousness. Abraham had long ago had "faith" in G-d and left his fathers house! By the time he had "believed" in G-ds promise he had already built 2...2! sacrifical altars! Why? And did G-d affirm his covenant to Isaac because of Abrahams faith? NO!!!!!! because Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws.” Not faith! He kept the law!

So it is the "unbelieving" Torah Jews, who have kept the law for 3500 years...passed down from father to son, who are of the faith of Abraham not the gentiles or "believing Jews".

More? In the messianic era, what is taking place?

Isaiah 2:3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

Jer 16: 19O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.

Ezek 44: 7In that ye have brought into my sanctuary strangers, uncircumcised in heart, and uncircumcised in flesh, to be in my sanctuary, to pollute it, even my house, when ye offer my bread, the fat and the blood, and they have broken my covenant because of all your abominations.

8And ye have not kept the charge of mine holy things: but ye have set keepers of my charge in my sanctuary for yourselves.

9Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger (Gentile), uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.

Zechariah 8:23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts: In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold, out of all the languages of the nations, shall even take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying: We will go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.'

So, what do we see here? A) The nations will stream to Zion, to Jerusalem, to LEARN THE LAW. B)The Gentiles shall come from all over the earth to Israel. Why? Because they have inherited lies! C) When the 3rd temple is built, even the gentiles MUST be circumsized spiritually AND physically to be in G-ds Sanctuary. What? Paul says that circumcision is bad! But Circumcision is still very much a part of life in the messianic era? How can that be? Paul is wrong.

The Gentiles come to Israel to learn the LAW. They acknowlege they have inherited lies. They must be circumsized to enter G-ds house. It will be world wide.

Do the Jews ever come to some other faith? No The nations abandon their false faith.

18 posted on 10/19/2011 4:36:37 PM PDT by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: blasater1960

John 8:21-30
English Standard Version (ESV)

21So he said to them again, “I am going away, and you will seek me, and you will die in your sin. Where I am going, you cannot come.” 22So the Jews said, “Will he kill himself, since he says, ‘Where I am going, you cannot come’?” 23He said to them, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.” 25So they said to him, “Who are you?” Jesus said to them, “Just what I have been telling you from the beginning. 26I have much to say about you and much to judge, but he who sent me is true, and I declare to the world what I have heard from him.” 27They did not understand that he had been speaking to them about the Father. 28So Jesus said to them, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he, and that I do nothing on my own authority, but speak just as the Father taught me. 29And he who sent me is with me. He has not left me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to him.” 30As he was saying these things, many believed in him.

please note, Jesus said to the unbelieving Jews of His day, they would die in their sins unless you believe I AM HE.

20 posted on 10/19/2011 4:46:18 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: blasater1960

Hey blasater!

Tarah here!

Okay question on something you wrote...

You said:
So, what do we see here? A) The nations will stream to Zion, to Jerusalem, to LEARN THE LAW. B)The Gentiles shall come from all over the earth to Israel.

If I am reading you correctly....If people in the Messianic Era Jew and Gentile alike are going to be learning the *Law* of GOD, then should we assume as well people will still be condemned by the law? if that is the case then Then how will Jews and Gentiles repent of those sins in the Messianic Era?

Also who are the Jews that are going to be in charge of teaching the Laws of GOD to the Gentile Nations? Are these Current Jewish Leaders?

Are you saying that all the Nations of the earth will be under the Law in the Messianic Era?

Lastly does GOD determine or Man determine who is a Jew and who is a Gentile in the Messianic Era?




125 posted on 10/21/2011 9:11:31 PM PDT by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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