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IRRESISTIBLE FORCE MEETS IMMOVABLE OBJECT AND VICE VERSA (fictional dialogue between Mormon and JW)
PatrickMadrid ^ | October 14, 2011 | Patrick Madrid

Posted on 10/23/2011 2:11:34 PM PDT by NYer

What would happen if a pair of Mormon missionaries showed up on the doorstep of a dedicated Jehovah’s Witness? This humorous but insightful fictional dialogue is what it might sound like.


Elder Hawkins grinned as he approached the door. He and Sister Sarah had placed the Book of Mormon in four homes already this morning, and it wasn’t yet noon. He rang the doorbell and stepped back. A tall, balding man wearing a large smile opened the door. Elder Hawkins saw the Watchtower magazine in the man’s hand and his grin vanished.

(By David Washburn, This Rock Magazine, 1992)

“Come in, come in,” the man bellowed. “Don’t just stand there. Come in and let’s get acquainted.”

Hawkins ushered Sister Sarah in and followed. They sat on a couch that the man indicated. “Hello. I’m Elder Hawkins, and this is Sister Sarah. We’re from the Church of– ”

“I know. I can read your little name tags. Tell me, what do you think of the situation in the Middle East? Do you think it’s leading anywhere?”

Hawkins shrugged. “Actually, Mr.– ?”

“Call me Jack. Jack Overton’s my name.”

“Jack, then. We’re here to ask a few questions. Do you believe family is important in today’s society?”

“Sure do,” Jack nodded. “That’s why me and my family are preparing ourselves to live forever in paradise on Earth. Are you?”

Hawkins blinked. “I hadn’t really thought about –”

“You need to.”

“Tell me, Jack. Do you believe that today’s society is trying to tear down the fabric of the family?”

“They’re tearing everything down. It’s no accident that blood transfusions transmit AIDS, you know.”

“Blood transfusions. Tell me this, Jack. Do you believe that life goes on after death?”

“No. When you die, consciousness ceases. The only way to come back is if Jehovah raises you again to live in paradise on Earth.”

“Oh, then you do believe we can return and live with Heavenly Father.”

“What does that mean?”

“Don’t change the subject. Do you believe it or not?”

Jack considered. “Well, not exactly with him, but we can return here.”

“And be exalted to live with Heavenly Father.”

Jack shrugged. “If you insist on putting it that way. But not everybody will get to.”

Hawkins took a breath. “You mean some people will go to hell.”

“Hell no, I don’t mean hell! There’s no such thing.”

Hawkins smiled. “So all can return and live with Heavenly Father.”

“I’d still like to know what that means, but the answer is no. The ones who reject the truth go to oblivion. After they get their second chance, if they still reject it, they stay in oblivion.”

“Second chance?”

“Don’t you read your Bible? At the Last Judgment, where it says ‘the books were opened.’ That means …”

“Oh, you mean when our Brother Jesus returns.”

“He’s already here.”

Hawkins flinched. “Where?”

“Here. On Earth.”

Hawkins smiled at Sister Sarah. “Really? Where does he live?”

“Don’t be silly. You can’t see him. He’s invisible, just like he was when his spirit rose from the dead.”

“When his spirit– Tell me this. Do you believe that God gave the Scriptures, insofar as they are correctly translated, to teach us how we can live with Heavenly Father?”

“Oh, yes. And we have the correct translation. It’s called the New World Translation. ”

“You have Joseph Smith’s inspired translation?”

“Joseph who?”

“Sister Sarah is good at explaining prophecy. Go ahead, Sister.”

Sarah cleared her throat. “Heavenly Father gave us the Scriptures through prophets who spoke for him. But the Bible wasn’t enough.”

“It’s enough,” Jack said, “But it’s hard to understand without Watchtower study materials to interpret it.”

“It isn’t enough,” Sarah said. “There’s another Testament of Jesus Christ.”

“Why do I want another one when the two I already have tell me all I need to know?”

Sarah frowned. “Because God gave it.”

“Why would he do that?”

“Because he wanted to, I guess. It’s called the Book of Mormon.”

“It was written by a moron?”

“No, Moroni gave it to Joseph Smith.”

Jack blinked. “The city councilman?”

“No, the prophet.”

“I hear Councilman Smith makes lots of profits, that’s for sure.”

“Not profit, prophet.” She gathered herself and tried again. “When he was fourteen, Joseph Smith had a vision of two personages. One pointed to the other and said, ‘This is my beloved Son. Listen to him.’ Who do you suppose that was?”

“This is all nice, but we really should be talking about Armageddon.”

Hawkins said, “Yes. The final battle when Jesus returns.”

“I told you, he’s already here. He returned in 1914 and established the millennial kingdom.”

Sarah stared. “But that’s supposed to be when all the Jews return to Palestine and all the Mormons return to Missouri.”

JACK laughed. “I don’t know where your misery comes into it, but Jesus returned invisibly in 1914. He’s in the process of driving out the devil’s minions. The devil is the author of the Trinity doctrine.”

Hawkins said, “You don’t believe in a Father, Son, and Holy Ghost?”

“I do, but they’re not all gods.”

“Of course they are. There are lots of gods. The Father has a glorified body, so does the Son. He took up his exalted body and returned to Heavenly Father after he died on the cross.”

“It wasn’t a cross. It was an upright stake.”

“I beg your pardon?”

Jack sighed. “At any rate, his death and spiritual resurrection gave us the prospect of eternal life on a restored Earth.”

“Spiritual resurrection? What do you mean?”

“He didn’t rise bodily. When he appeared to the disciples, he used different bodies as he pleased.”

Hawkins shook his head. “You’ve got it all wrong. He laid down his life and took it up again, just like Heavenly Father did in ages past.”

“You’re saying Jehovah died and rose, too?”

“Not Jehovah, the Father.”

“Isn’t the Father Jehovah?”

“No, he’s Adam.”

“Adam who?”

“Adam, the first man in the Bible.”

“You’re kidding.”

“Not at all. Brigham Young told us–”

“Who?”

“Brigham Young. He was the spiritual successor to Joseph Smith.”

“The city councilman?”

Hawkins slapped the arm of the couch. “Will you stop that? I want to tell you what God revealed to us through his prophet, Joseph Smith!”

Jack leaned back. “Don’t get so excited. Tell away.”

HAWKINS took a deep breath. “Now, the Angel Moroni appeared to Joseph and told him where he could find some golden plates containing a book that told of an ancient American civilization. He found them and translated them. They were written in Reformed Egyptian.”

“What’s Reformed Egyptian?”

“A language that nobody knows.”

“Did your Joseph know it?”

“No.”

“But he translated it.”

“Yes!”

Jack scratched his head. “Where are these plates now?”

“The angel took them back to heaven.”

Jack smiled. “That’s too bad. It would have been nice to have a New World Translation of the Christian Reformed Egyptian Scriptures.”

“Why? Joseph Smith translated them perfectly under God’s inspiration.”

“How do you know that?”

“I prayed to Heavenly Father and he showed me.”

“How did he show you?”

“When something is true, don’t you feel it? Isn’t that feeling you get how you know it’s true?”

“Oh, yes. That’s how I know my Watchtower is true and this isn’t.”

“You’re wrong. I feel that we’re the true church.”

“Your feeling is wrong. I feel that we’re the right one.”

“Your feeling is wrong.”

“Is not.”

“Is too.”

“Is not.” Jack stood. “I’m thirsty. Would you like some coffee?”

“We never pollute our bodies with coffee unless our church owns the company. Do you have any tomato juice?”

“I never buy tomato juice. It looks too much like blood, and the Scripture says you’re not supposed to eat blood. It’s no accident that blood transfusions transmit AIDS, you know.”

Hawkins stood. “Tell you what. We need to be going. Just let me leave you with a thought. If you became convinced that these things are true, would you be baptized in the Mormon Church?”

“I’ve already been baptized into Jehovah’s kingdom. Have you?”

“Not that I know of.”

“That’s too bad. You need to be baptized into his kingdom and then sell books and magazines so you can avoid oblivion. But don’t worry. He’ll give you a second chance when the books are opened, anyway.”

Hawkins shook his head and opened the door for Sister Sarah. “Goodbye, Jack. Thanks for talking to us.”

“Same to you,” Jack said as he followed them to the door. “By the way, if you’re going door-to-door, watch out for the lady two doors down. She’s a Christian Scientist. Now there’s a strange religion.”

Hawkins glanced at Sister Sarah. “Thanks for the tip. We all need to be on guard against religious fruitcakes, don’t we?”

Jack nodded. “Yes, don’t we all.”

 




TOPICS: Other Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: christianity; jehovahswitnesses; jw; jws; mormon; mormons

1 posted on 10/23/2011 2:11:42 PM PDT by NYer
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To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; SumProVita; ...

Patrick Madrid ping!


2 posted on 10/23/2011 2:12:27 PM PDT by NYer ("Be kind to every person you meet. For every person is fighting a great battle." St. Ephraim)
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To: NYer

I’m Mormon, and I have a Jehovah’s Witness next door to me. We’ve never had this fictional conversation, fwiw.


3 posted on 10/23/2011 2:20:39 PM PDT by Ripliancum (Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you. -Eph. 4:31)
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And the premise is flawed from the get go. The scenario... “Hello. I’m Elder Hawkins, and this is Sister Sarah. We’re from the Church of– ”... would never happen. Companionships aren’t mixed sex, unless they are older married couples serving together...


4 posted on 10/23/2011 2:24:37 PM PDT by Ripliancum (Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you. -Eph. 4:31)
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To: NYer

I might read it later for a chuckle, but FYI, Mormons don’t normally travel in mixed pairs.


5 posted on 10/23/2011 2:25:05 PM PDT by T Minus Four
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..and the pic at the top is of JW missionaries, not LDS missionaries.


6 posted on 10/23/2011 2:27:00 PM PDT by Ripliancum (Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you. -Eph. 4:31)
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To: NYer
This is better!

Two Mormons meet a Georgia Preacher

7 posted on 10/23/2011 2:41:43 PM PDT by FatherofFive (Islam is evil and must be eradicated)
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To: T Minus Four

I use to work at an after school child care and I use to watch a little girl who was JW. Every time one of the kids would celebrate their birthday, she had to leave to room and wasn’t allowed any cup cakes by orders of her parents. I thought, what a cruel religion. She couldn’t take part in any holiday event either.


8 posted on 10/23/2011 2:47:13 PM PDT by dragonblustar (Allah Ain't So Akbar!)
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To: FatherofFive

Offering proof inside metaphysical arguments? ooookayyyy....


9 posted on 10/23/2011 3:04:00 PM PDT by Loud Mime (The Obama voters are dumber than you think, meaner than you can imagine)
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To: Colofornian

a bit of fun...ping


10 posted on 10/23/2011 3:46:23 PM PDT by Tainan (Cogito, ergo conservatus sum)
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To: Ripliancum

That’s what makes it fiction.


11 posted on 10/23/2011 3:53:43 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied.)
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To: NYer

Let’s throw in a Muzzie or two into this equation and watch the fireworks begin!


12 posted on 10/23/2011 4:07:23 PM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: FReepers; everyone; All


13 posted on 10/23/2011 4:14:41 PM PDT by onyx (You're here on FR, so support it! Compiling New Sarah Ping List. Let me know if you want on it.)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

OK. One day in Stockbridge, GA

An atheist sideswipes a pair of Mormon “bicycle boys” and drives off. A Jehova’s Witness and a Wiccan stop to help and a Muslim crashes into the back of their stopped cars. A Baptist State Trooper from Herman Cain’s church arrives to investigate....

Y’all take it from there.

Only in America.

And I love that tag line. Lack of use of monopropellants is part of what’s wrong with this country! LOL


14 posted on 10/23/2011 4:30:03 PM PDT by noprogs (Borders, Language, Culture....all should be preserved)
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To: Ripliancum

Wow! Heretical neighbors! Who’d a thunk it?


15 posted on 10/23/2011 4:34:25 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (You know, 99.99999965% of the lawyers give all of them a bad name)
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To: dragonblustar

Isn’t it funny how the only two people shown in the Bible to celebrate self-Idolization (birthdays) were two very evil folks?

Also .. Trace Every single ‘holiday’ back to it’s origins and let us know what you discover?

No Good Fruit will come (originate) from a Rotten tree!


16 posted on 10/23/2011 4:45:10 PM PDT by freejohn ("Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference." --- Mark Twain)
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To: freejohn
Isn’t it funny how the only two people shown in the Bible to celebrate self-Idolization (birthdays) were two very evil folks?

Really, because it doesn't seem to be a problem with the mainline churches. Usually people who are in cults get bent out of shape when it comes to birthdays and holidays..

17 posted on 10/23/2011 5:26:06 PM PDT by dragonblustar (Allah Ain't So Akbar!)
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To: dragonblustar

But .. You haven’t answered the question yet.

And regardless of what or how ‘mainline’ Churches choose to do things doesn’t regulate what I may believe.

If that were so, I’d be in a pickle since just about Every ‘mainline’ Church has Some disagreements with other ‘mainline’ Churches!


18 posted on 10/23/2011 5:37:21 PM PDT by freejohn ("Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference." --- Mark Twain)
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To: freejohn
Isn’t it funny how the only two people shown in the Bible to celebrate self-Idolization (birthdays) were two very evil folks?

So, are you saying that everyone who celebrates a birthday are evil? I'm sure Saddam Hussein ate breakfast but that doesn't make breakfast eaters evil like him does it?

But .. You haven’t answered the question yet. And regardless of what or how ‘mainline’ Churches choose to do things doesn’t regulate what I may believe. If that were so, I’d be in a pickle since just about Every ‘mainline’ Church has Some disagreements with other ‘mainline’ Churches!

No, that's the point. If celebrating birthdays kept people out of heaven, the churches would have covered that and condemn the practice. I got a Birthday card from my pastor and his staff, I also wished a priest a very Happy Birthday. He had many well wishers.

Seriously, people who get all uptight over holidays and birthdays tend to reside on the cult side.

I think holidays are great times to get the message out about Christ, birthday's too. Because its a time to reflect upon who has given you life in this world and the next.

19 posted on 10/23/2011 7:01:00 PM PDT by dragonblustar (Allah Ain't So Akbar!)
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To: freejohn

Isn’t it funny that all the false prophets in the bible were mocked mercilessly?


20 posted on 10/23/2011 7:14:40 PM PDT by NorthStarStateConservative (Springtime in America will arrive on January 21, 2013.)
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To: freejohn
Isn’t it funny how the only two people shown in the Bible to celebrate self-Idolization (birthdays) were two very evil folks?

Dude...no cake for you.

21 posted on 10/23/2011 7:45:43 PM PDT by Tainan (Cogito, ergo conservatus sum)
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To: dragonblustar
So, are you saying that everyone who celebrates a birthday are evil? I'm sure Saddam Hussein ate breakfast but that doesn't make breakfast eaters evil like him does it?

Did breakfast evolve from a Pagan rite that I am not familiar with?

No, that's the point. If celebrating birthdays kept people out of heaven ..

The Heavens were made for the Angels .. whereas the Earth was created for Man .. to live forever upon.

I think holidays are great times to get the message out about Christ, birthday's too.

Why not do that everyday and .. Where did Christ give that particular commandment?

If I remember correctly .. Christ's commandment was to 'celebrate' .. his death for all mankind?

Seriously, people who get all uptight over holidays and birthdays tend to reside on the cult side.

The problem here is that 'main-line' Churches can agree 100% on ONLY ONE thing .. If you don't agree with them .. You must be a Cult!

They can't and don't agree with each other on Lots of things but .. It's the other guy who is a cult!?

22 posted on 10/23/2011 7:46:14 PM PDT by freejohn ("Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference." --- Mark Twain)
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To: noprogs

What if they all walked into a bar?...

LOL! We need more monopropellants used in this nation especially H202!


23 posted on 10/23/2011 9:52:13 PM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: count-your-change; MarkBsnr; Natural Law; sayuncledave; LurkingSince'98; miele man; vladimir998; ...
count-your-change have you ever had Mormons come visit you like this Jack character here?
24 posted on 10/24/2011 2:55:14 AM PDT by Cronos (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2787101/posts?page=58#58)
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To: freejohn; dragonblustar
freejohnnie: Isn’t it funny how the only two people shown in the Bible to celebrate self-Idolization (birthdays) were two very evil folks? Also .. Trace Every single ‘holiday’ back to it’s origins and let us know what you discover? No Good Fruit will come (originate) from a Rotten tree!

Stop celebratin' everythin'!! It's all eeeveeel.

25 posted on 10/24/2011 2:56:58 AM PDT by Cronos (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2787101/posts?page=58#58)
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To: freejohn
Did breakfast evolve from a Pagan rite that I am not familiar with?

There's nearly ten thousand years of recorded human history plus time before that. Whose to say it didn't. Judaism is about 5000 years old, what did people do before that? The point being, people do lots of things. Evil people celebrate things as much as good people do, that doesn't make everyone evil for celebrating birthdays. Christian organizations sponsor children in Africa and they encourage their church members to send birthday cards and words of encouragement to these poor children. Is that evil? It all has to do with the spirit.

The Heavens were made for the Angels .. whereas the Earth was created for Man .. to live forever upon.

Never mind the new earth and heaven?

Why not do that everyday and ..

We could do it every day but someone might complain its on a day named after a pagan god.

Where did Christ give that particular commandment?

Where did he say you couldn't? If I remember correctly .. Christ's commandment was to 'celebrate' .. his death for all mankind?

so we can't celebrate weddings either?

The problem here is that 'main-line' Churches can agree 100% on ONLY ONE thing .. If you don't agree with them .. You must be a Cult!

Westboros, Jim Jones, JW, Mormons, etc.... have gone that route. Its about control.

They can't and don't agree with each other on Lots of things but .. It's the other guy who is a cult!?

When they start labeling everything that is evil. Satan can quote scripture and twist it for his purpose. No further evidence of that than with the Westboro Baptist.

26 posted on 10/24/2011 8:42:21 AM PDT by dragonblustar (Allah Ain't So Akbar!)
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To: noprogs

First question from the Trooper is ... wait for it, “Okay, did anyone get the tag number of the Catholic SUV that backed into y’all?


27 posted on 10/24/2011 8:54:26 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: NYer; Tainan; All
ALL: This post just up: A Mirror for Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses
28 posted on 10/24/2011 11:06:33 AM PDT by Colofornian (Anyone who can be duped by Joseph Smith can be duped by anyone.)
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To: NYer; Ripliancum; Saundra Duffy; teppe
From the article: HAWKINS took a deep breath. “Now, the Angel Moroni appeared to Joseph and told him where he could find some golden plates containing a book that told of an ancient American civilization. He found them and translated them. They were written in Reformed Egyptian.”
“What’s Reformed Egyptian?”
“A language that nobody knows.”
“Did your Joseph know it?”
“No.”
“But he translated it.”

Yup. (That's Mormonism!) “Yes!”

29 posted on 10/24/2011 11:11:51 AM PDT by Colofornian (Anyone who can be duped by Joseph Smith can be duped by anyone.)
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To: NYer; Ripliancum; All
From the mock dialogue: Hawkins smiled. “So all can return and live with Heavenly Father.”

(A Mormon would NEVER say this. Their goal isn't to emphasize ALL returning to live with Heavenly Father. You have to be a member of the Mormon church first; then you have to have a spouse & a temple recommend. If you don't have all of those on your spiritual to-do checklist checked off, then no eternal reconciliation with heavenly Father for you.)

30 posted on 10/24/2011 11:18:41 AM PDT by Colofornian (Anyone who can be duped by Joseph Smith can be duped by anyone.)
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To: Cronos
freejohnnie?
It's all eeeveeel

So .. Are you a 'Christian' Troll or just another Troll wishing to be taken seriously?

Your 'about me' (profile page) is exactly 100 degrees opposite of your snide remarks!

31 posted on 10/24/2011 1:33:04 PM PDT by freejohn ("Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference." --- Mark Twain)
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To: Colofornian

Thanks...read the link....”Your gung-fu is strong”....lol...;)


32 posted on 10/24/2011 6:37:53 PM PDT by Tainan (Cogito, ergo conservatus sum)
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To: freejohn
Watch it newbie -- I've been here 10 years longer than you have. If you post something like "Isn’t it funny how the only two people shown in the Bible to celebrate self-Idolization (birthdays) were two very evil folks? Also .. Trace Every single ‘holiday’ back to it’s origins and let us know what you discover? No Good Fruit will come (originate) from a Rotten tree!" then expect to be mocked for Jehovah's Witness type statements -- rather more Gnostic than anything else.

Are YOU Christian for that matter? or Gnostic? Or jehovah's Witness?

33 posted on 10/24/2011 10:08:22 PM PDT by Cronos (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2787101/posts?page=58#58)
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To: Cronos

First off .. Because you ‘believe’ that you have been here TEN years longer than I have doesn’t necessarily make it so just as your ‘mainline’ Christian beliefs don’t necessarily make them valid!

You’ll need to come up with a Much better argument than .. the “Your a nOOb” one!

As to MY Christian beliefs .. They’re MINE! 8)


34 posted on 10/25/2011 7:50:24 PM PDT by freejohn ("Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference." --- Mark Twain)
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To: freejohn
First off -- it does make it valid, N00B -- so watch it

Secondly, it makes it more likely that the troll is ya

Thirdly -- if "As to MY Christian beliefs .. They’re MINE! " -- then stop asking folks about their beliefs -- your attitude signifies that whatever little cult you belong to, it isn't Christian.

35 posted on 10/25/2011 10:37:53 PM PDT by Cronos (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2787101/posts?page=58#58)
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