Posted on 10/23/2011 6:23:05 PM PDT by hiho hiho
Excellent points.
Women don’t need ritual? Excuse me?
And the unceasing ritual for the Tomb of the Unknown is about respect, not Testosterone.
Has the Church changed? Yes, because the “men” refuse to actually learn about Christ, and worship as a family, like they are supposed to.
The Titanic? This is the best example you can come up with? Women and children to the lifeboats. Please.
That was a different time, when men actually thought women were the weaker (physically :which in upper body strength most are: mentally, which most women have more sense than men in a wide variety of subjects). A belief that for most, disappeared in WWII when the women were left to take care of the homefront, and actually build the weapons of war.
So, let’s stick to the actual subject.
Has the Church changed? Yes, because the “men” refuse to actually learn about Christ, and worship as a family, like they are supposed to.
Careful, you’re scaring the men. :)
A large portion of men in the industrialized world are no longer men.
Look to the developing world, where Christianity is rising. Those men there are men.
Churches which have many ministries have high retention rates for males. My own is luke that and it is very successful in keeping men attending and growin in His word.
It is also the only church I have ever attended in which discussions of guns and hunting are quite acceptabe and common.
I love my church and each week I Can’t wait to get there t lead worship in the choir.
If a Roman Catholic priest’s sermon went longer than 10 minutes where I went as a kid, it’d be a record. They were always way too short and fairly light on substance compared to the sermons I listen to today.
Orthodox Priests are allowed to marry and have children. But not Orthodox Monks who remain in Monasteries and visit the Churches infrequently.
I’ve always thought that celibacy in the Catholic Church was an attractive cover for gays and pedophiles. What other institution exists where they can they go that offers men and boys that are restricted from interacting with women?
Our parish was large and we had three resident priests. One was seven to ten minutes, the other two were fifteen minutes. The first priest drew big crowds even at 8:30 AM on Sunday.
I hear "Social Justice" all the time at our masses, it makes me cringe.....and of course they are pro-illegal immigrant as well.
Most churches spend the entire service trying to get men to act like women. Then they wonder why men don’t come, or come under protest....
But wait! “As David Foster Wallace said in a different context, this is an idea “so stupid it practically drools.” Even sillier are the proposed masculine remedies...”
Metro-sexual writers shouldn’t discuss men in churches.
Many of the Catholic Churches are into Social Justice and may as well be an arm of the DNC.
Pray for America
“Men need to grow a pair, and actually start acting like Men, and not d#cks. “
Men WITH a pair, who already act like men, are not wanted in the feminine church.
deception does not draw ‘all men’ unto itself.
I don’t know what it’s like with churches, but in non-orthodox synagogues, more and more women are “in charge,” even if the actual rabbi is a man. And the more women who run things, the less men feel like being involved, or that they belong. This is totally sexist but when men are involved in the congregational hierarchy, other men gravitate more. Worship and community should not be completely run by women.
B.S.
The truth is that Men don’t want to miss the Ball Game, tinker in the Garage, or miss the next episode of Tool Time.
IF Church has become “feminine” it’s because only the woman have the backbone to actually be there.
Not BS.
What is there in a church service for men to do or care about?
Group singing? Yeah, that is what men like to do - NOT!
Listening to someone - often with little experience in life - talk about how to be a better person? Yeah, that is another thing a man wants to do.
Women go to church to socialize with other religious-type women. They talk, compare kids, talk, look at what each one is wearing, talk, get a break from their babies, talk...
That is hardly having backbone. That is what women LOVE to do. They do it in any setting possible. They go to church because, to them, it is FUN.
On the whole, I’d rather go jogging, ride a horse, shoot a gun, or just enjoy doing nothing. Like most men, I don’t want to get together and talk about each other. And I don’t want to listen to a sermon about being more caring, more sensitive, more gushy. I don’t need advice on life from someone who hasn’t lived it. I don’t want to watch a ‘worship leader’ perform, or cry over ‘sweet Jesus’.
Women hear a sermon on caring more and think, “Why doesn’t my husband care more about me?” Men hear it, and think, “When I get home, she’s going to nag me to care more about her.” And why would any man want to be in that spot?
Some of my earliest memories are of siting in church, wishing it was over. Some things never change.
If Jesus is our Creator and he created men to be men, it would seem Jesus Himself is not into wussy-touchy-feely men.
As another poster so aptly put it, game, set, match...
the infowarrior
I think the question of why more men don’t attend worship is more of a “western” trend in the U.S. and in Western Europe than it is world-wide.
In the rest of the world, the “third world” countries, being a Christian costs something - sometimes your freedom, your physical comfort - even your life.
There is no doubt that the liberal ideology that has permeated some Christian denominations has had a negative effect on the witness of the Church (both Protestant and Catholic) in our world.
Typically the more liberal the church in doctrine and in message, the less attendance by both men and women. The more Biblically sound the church - the more attendence of both men and women.
I would like to say that this was because people tend to respond to God’s real truth when they hear it. I would also like to attribute greater attendance and growth among conservative churches and denominations to their being more orthodox, teaching sound Biblical doctrine, living sincere (as opposed to hypocritical) Christian lives - but, unfortunately, that is not always the case.
It isn’t the worship style, or the language, the color of the carpets, the “chickafication” of the church, the inexperience of the pastor or priest - it isn’t because one church only sings traditional gospel songs/hymns or another does more contemporary music as the reason why some churches lack growth or experience explosive growth. I wish it were that easy to figure out.
Some of the largest churches where I live ask very little of their membership - in fact, the bigger they are, the easier it is to “hide” from others. Some of these mega-churches are “fuzzy” about adhereing to certain unpopular Christian doctrines - like salvation through Christ alone, the inerrancy of the Bible, unwavering rejection of abortion, homosexuality, sexual purity before marriage, heck - being married before couples live together!
Some of these mega-churches are very “market-driven” in how they present their church to the community (what “programs” the church will establish in order to attract non-church people). The so-called “seeker-sensitive” churches who attempt to conform their church to the culture around them.
These churches ofentimes thrive while other, more conservative churches seem to just struggle on or even lose more and more attendence.
The point is - growth doesn’t always mean that a church is doctrinally sound. Many of the churches (sometimes called cults) experience tremendous growth.
But, as I mentioned previously - this is mostly true of what is happening in western countries like the U.S. and western Europe. We often hear that Christianity is “losing” to other faiths, like Islam, or eastern religions - but just the opposite is true. Christianity is outgrowing all other faiths world-wide, but only in the third world countries or even in typically hostile countries like China. Eastern European countries have experience growth in Christianity as well.
Everyone has their own theories as to why Christianity is losing ground in America and western Europe, but I think what is obvious is that many people in our country do not feel the need for God. We pretty much have what we want when we want it (for the most part). There is little if any real “cost” of discipleship because our people won’t put up with very much interference or inconvenience in their lives or their familties lives.
Church attendence had better be convenient and as “cheap” as possible or it’s deemed too intrusive. Soundness of doctrine is not so important, but rather how much does a church want more and more of MY time and MY money?
Doctrinally sound, Biblical churches are seen as archaic, “out of touch” with the times, “narrow”, “bigoted”, - too hard.
After all, being Biblically sound or correct doesn’t guarantee that people will respond positively to you. Moses led by God’s power and command, yet many rejected his leadership and authority. Jesus Himself, from our typical view of “success” was a total failure in His ministry. He was rejected by most people toward the end of His earthly ministry - even His own disciples left Him when He was arrested and crucified (note it was the women that stuck with Him, at the cross - and, it was three women that found the empty tomb - it was also a woman who first saw Jesus resurrected). He was even betrayed by one of His disciples.
My point is that not everyone will “endure sound doctrine”. The Apostle Paul tells us that in the last times people will reject all Godly authority. All we can do is keep on telling the truth to whomever is willling to listen. We must leave the rest to God.
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