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A Mirror for Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses
The Christian Post ^ | Oct. 23, 2011 | Dan Delzell

Posted on 10/24/2011 10:30:41 AM PDT by Colofornian

It is amazing how easily we as human beings can lose our objectivity. We become lost in our own little world. It is like looking in a mirror which reflects an inaccurate image of reality. What we see in the mirror is not a true reflection of our condition before God. It is almost like someone has cast a spell over us. We need to look in a different mirror in order to break the spell. We need a mirror that will help us to see ourselves correctly and in a new light.

This is what can happen for a Jehovah's Witness or a Mormon. They need to see their religion accurately rather than viewing it "under the spell" as they gaze in the wrong mirror. One of the things a Jehovah's Witness can do to help "break the spell" is to look in the "mirror of Mormonism." The same is true of a Mormon looking in the "mirror of the Jehovah's Witnesses." It puts a whole new perspective on things.

By only looking at themselves in their own mirror, these groups don't see any religious reality other than their own perception of themselves and their organization. There is a "spiritual haze" hovering over all that they do. They need to allow their mind to go to a place where they investigate a similar kind of religion with an open heart. When you see how another group has spun off the path following the man-made doctrines of a false prophet, you are a step closer to looking at your own religious organization with objectivity.

A Jehovah's Witness really needs to wrestle with Mormon history in order to see how the Mormon prophet who began that religion is very similar to the Jehovah's Witness prophet who founded the Watchtower Society. Both of these men came up with new definitions for God and a new system of trying to follow God. Just because it was new didn't make it true. These two prophets from the 19th century were good at "casting a spell" so to speak over their followers and getting them to stop being objective regarding the Bible and historic Christianity.

When a Jehovah's Witness or Mormon examines the other's man-made origin, it becomes easier to see how their own religion got started in a similar fashion. Both religions exist outside of Christianity, even though both religions employ many biblical terms that make their organizations sound "Christian."

If a Jehovah's Witness will look in the mirror of Mormonism, he will begin to see himself. If a Mormon looks in the mirror of the Watchtower, he too will start to see himself. The doctrines of the two organizations are different in the letter of the law, and yet extremely alike in terms of the "spell" that is cast upon the followers of both groups. The spiritual atmosphere within the two groups is eerily similar.

If you are a Mormon or a Jehovah's Witness and you want to see how you are truly under a spell, just do this: Try to find other Christian denominations that recognize your organization to be legitimately Christian in doctrine. You won't find them. And yet, your leaders deceptively tell your missionaries to identify yourselves as "Christian." They do this because it is good for business. Never mind the fact that it is extremely unethical and dishonest. If your own leaders are teaching you to be deceptive, how can they possibly be doing God's will?

There are many times in life when we desperately need to see our situation for what it really is rather than simply seeing our perception of it. There is a saying that "perception is reality." What we see in the mirror is "our reality." That doesn't mean it is the true reality. We must open our mind and become willing to see it in a new light.

Albert Einstein said, "Reality is merely an illusion, although a very persistent one." Einstein was intelligent, but he got that one wrong. When it comes to the reality of Jesus Christ, He is not a "persistent illusion." He is eternally real and there is only One of Him. Unfortunately, there are cheap imitations that attempt to capitalize on His name for their own profit and the advancement of a man-made organization.

If a Mormon or Jehovah's Witness will study the other's religion, he will see himself in that mirror and be a step closer to meeting the real Jesus. You don't have to be afraid to look at things in a different mirror. That is the only way to come out from under the spell and to finally start seeing Christianity from God's perspective.

Dan Delzell is the pastor of Wellspring Lutheran Church in Papillion, Neb.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Other Christian; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: christian; cults; inman; jehovahswitnesses; jw; jws; lds; lutheran; mormon; mormonism; mormons
From the article: If you are a Mormon or a Jehovah's Witness and you want to see how you are truly under a spell, just do this: Try to find other Christian denominations that recognize your organization to be legitimately Christian in doctrine. You won't find them. And yet, your leaders deceptively tell your missionaries to identify yourselves as "Christian." They do this because it is good for business. Never mind the fact that it is extremely unethical and dishonest. If your own leaders are teaching you to be deceptive, how can they possibly be doing God's will?

With this statement, this pastor has hit a homerun!

If Mormons or JWs were "Christian," there'd be some acknowledgement somewhere from supposedly other Christian denominations. But guess what? There's NOT!!!

Instead, Mormons deem JWs as a "cult." And JWs deem Mormons as a "cult." And mainstream Mormons deem the fundamentalist Mormons as a breakaway cult.

And yet tho no Christian denomination deems any of these groups as "Christian." Therefore, as this pastor says: ...your leaders deceptively tell your missionaries to identify yourselves as "Christian." They do this because it is good for business. Never mind the fact that it is extremely unethical and dishonest. If your own leaders are teaching you to be deceptive, how can they possibly be doing God's will?

Are any Mormons & JWs willing to answer that Q?

1 posted on 10/24/2011 10:30:45 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: All
From the article: When it comes to the reality of Jesus Christ, He is not a "persistent illusion." He is eternally real and there is only One of Him. Unfortunately, there are cheap imitations that attempt to capitalize on His name for their own profit and the advancement of a man-made organization.

This is true for both the Watchtower Bible and Tract org based in Brooklyn as well as the highly hierarchical Mormon HQ in Salt Lake City. They present a “cheap imitation” of Jesus meant ”to capitalize on His name for their own profit and the advancement of a man-made organization.”

Jesus warned that imitation messiahs would be presented (Matthew 24). And we know Jesus can be treated as Gumby, twisted out of shape so that He is no longer recognizable.

From the article: When it comes to the reality of Jesus Christ, He is not a "persistent illusion." He is eternally real and there is only One of Him.

The Mormons like to emphasize this – that’s there’s only one Jesus. But just as contradictory things cannot both be true about our own identities, so also is true of Jesus’ identity. Therefore, at some point, we leave ”reality” -- discussing the real Jesus – and move on to how they are embracing the cheap imitation.

Here’s examples of imitation jesuses:

The "Jesus" of the Marharishi of TM is a Jesus who never suffered.
The "Jesus" of Guru Maharaj Ji supposedly merged with Krishna, Ram and Buddha.
The only difference between the Moonie "jesus" and the rest of us, says, Sun Myung Moon, is that Jesus had no original sin nature.
The "Jesus" of Christian Science think of themselves as "Christian," yet they don't believe Jesus is God.
The "Jesus" of the Jehovah's Witnesses is not Almighty and is "a god," but not "THE" God; nor did He bodily resurrect.
The "Jesus" of many gnostics would in no way incarnate a human body -- because that to them would be too "corrupt" of a thing to do.
The "Jesus" of Brigham Young is one redeemer-savior among who knows how many? "He was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. On every earth. How many earths are there?...Consequently every earth has its redeemer..." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 14, p. 71, 1870) [Tell us, PD, what makes Brigham's "jesus" so universally unique?]
The "Jesus" of Mormonism is a pre-existent spirit-creature; a son of a God-man whose next-in-line brother is "Lucifer/Satan" -- a "Jesus" who had to work out his own salvation; and whose blood didn't cover all of our personal sins (thereby rendering him as an incomplete, inadequate "savior").

Tell, us, How can all these "Jesuses" be the same One? How can we have...
...a Jesus who suffers & a TM "Jesus" who doesn't?
...a Jesus who resurrects bodily & a JW "Jesus" who doesn't?
...a Jesus who transcends us in every way & a Moonie "Jesus" who only transcends us sin-wise?
...a Jesus who is united with the Father & the Spirit vs. a Hindu offshoot/New Age "Jesus" who merges as part of a divine flame or divine ocean?
...THE fully-God, fully-man incarnant son of God vs. a less-than-human embodied gnostic "Jesus"?
...a Jesus who is THE Savior vs. a Mormon "Jesus" who competes with ALL kinds of "saviors" on other planets (per Brigham) & ALL kinds of "saviors" on THIS planet (per Lds "prophet" John Taylor's description of Baptism of the dead "saviors")??
...a Jesus who is THE Creator vs. a Mormon "Jesus," a mere spirit-creature?
...a Jesus who is THE Savior vs. a Mormon "Jesus" who is touted by Lds leaders as a "saved being?"
...a Jesus who created Lucifer (Col. 1:16-17) vs. a Mormon "Jesus" who "lucked out" on being ahead of Lucifer spirit-birth assembly line, only because of spirit-birth order???
...a Jesus who died BOTH for our sin nature AND ALL of our personal sins vs. a Mormon "Jesus" who didn't?

2 posted on 10/24/2011 10:32:34 AM PDT by Colofornian (Anyone who can be duped by Joseph Smith can be duped by anyone.)
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To: All
From the article: If a Mormon or Jehovah's Witness will study the other's religion, he will see himself in that mirror and be a step closer to meeting the real Jesus. You don't have to be afraid to look at things in a different mirror. That is the only way to come out from under the spell and to finally start seeing Christianity from God's perspective.

Come on out. Mormons, look @ JWs – and you will see how your own org arose; JWs, look @ Mormons, and you will see how false prophets did arise in the 19th century. Your genesis can be found by looking in another mirror.

3 posted on 10/24/2011 10:33:24 AM PDT by Colofornian (Anyone who can be duped by Joseph Smith can be duped by anyone.)
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To: Colofornian

I wonder how the conversation goes when Mormon missionaries stop at a Jehovah’s Witness’ house or vice versa? I bet it’s fascinating.


4 posted on 10/24/2011 10:38:08 AM PDT by ReformationFan
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To: Colofornian

I wonder how the conversation goes when Mormon missionaries stop at a Jehovah’s Witness’ house or vice versa? I bet it’s fascinating.


5 posted on 10/24/2011 10:38:29 AM PDT by ReformationFan
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To: ReformationFan; Colofornian
Mormon missionaries stop at a Jehovah’s Witness’ house or vice versa? I bet it’s fascinating.

More like a cat fight. Been there. done that.

6 posted on 10/24/2011 10:47:48 AM PDT by Utah Binger (Southern Utah where INVITED Freepers will meet again next summer. Jim Robinson Too)
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To: Colofornian

A pastor friend of mine says something like ‘Once a person is deceived, he does not recognize that he is deceived, because he has been deceived’. And if you think you can’t be deceived, you are being deceived. We must watch carefully, and check our foundation often...constantly...


7 posted on 10/24/2011 10:47:48 AM PDT by LearnsFromMistakes (Yes, I am happy to see you. But that IS a gun in my pocket.)
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To: ReformationFan

Both the LDS and JW’s condemn other denominations as false churches. The only personal association with non-members they are supposed to have is for recruiting new members.

Neither use the Bible as a real source of their faith, they have “other books” for that.

So, no, they aren’t “Christian” any more than Scientology is. lol.


8 posted on 10/24/2011 10:52:00 AM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Happiness)
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To: Colofornian
With all due respect, I think Joseph Smith was much more intelligent than Charles Taze Russel......He only made one false second coming prophecy compares to the JW's 7.

Like Charles Taze Russel and Harold Camping, however, FLDS/LDS Prophet Joseph Smith DID falsely proclaim that the second coming would be in 1891.

JW's, Mormons and Islam for that matter are nearly identical in that they do not allow the unpunished leaving of their church. Once a member, they will never let you go peacefully. They will break up families, excommunicate, heck Brigham Young (Like Mohammed) even preached decapitation for "apostates".

9 posted on 10/24/2011 10:55:47 AM PDT by SENTINEL (Mormonism...from Ezra Taft Benson to Reid and Romney in only one generation.)
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To: GeronL; All

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3BqLZ8UoZk

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw1Vg8HsMK4&feature=related


10 posted on 10/24/2011 10:59:05 AM PDT by ReformationFan
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Peepstone profit placemarker


11 posted on 10/24/2011 11:10:50 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (If other churches were dead dunking mormons to save them mormons would be furious.)
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To: Utah Binger; ReformationFan

Mormon missionaries stop at a Jehovah’s Witness’ house or vice versa? I bet it’s fascinating.

More like a cat fight. Been there. done that.
_____________________________________________________

Its also interesting when the Mormons and the JWs get to fighting over a Christian...

Been there done that...

Both the Mormons and the JWs use to “visit” me once a month..

After a while a JW woman boasted to me one day that since I wouldnt leave Christianity and become a JW she had asked her male JW authority whomever if she could have me for her own personal slave in the JW hereafter...

Having gained permission she was passing on the glad news to me...

Oh joy !!!

That same week or so the usual Mormons turned up

One woman who have struggled manfully (LOL) with me by that time for a couple or so YEARS warned me if I didnt leave Christianity soon and join the Mormons I would wind up a slave in the Mormon afterlife...

(Now right here ya gotta wonder if the Mormons and JWs were in cohoots in some weird conspiracy)

I told the Mormonette “Too late. The JWs have already claimed me as their slave”

If I didnt know the Mormon woman quite well by this time what she said next may have come as Tomfoolery but she was sincere..

She begged me to reconsider and tell the JWs that I had changed my mind and was going with the Mormns as their slave..

Now all this without a health plan or promise of any bennies (No RomneyCare inn those days)

She expected me to choose them over the JWs...

and by acknowledging the slavery in each religion she was admitting the JWs were as valid to her as she thought Mormonism was..strange...

(I didnt laugh. I promise...although my head was exploding)

I told her I thought it was too late once Id been spoken for (or some such words)

She looked like she was going to cry...

and kept on begging for me to accept them instead...

You would have to understand how sorry I felt for those nice deluded women...

Well the Mormons started coming twice a month from that time on laying it on even thicker...

ROFLBMO


12 posted on 10/24/2011 12:51:42 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Colofornian; count-your-change; MarkBsnr; Natural Law; ReformationFan
This is true for both the Watchtower Bible and Tract org based in Brooklyn as well as the highly hierarchical Mormon HQ in Salt Lake City. They present a “cheap imitation” of Jesus meant ”to capitalize on His name for their own profit and the advancement of a man-made organization.”

Good point, colofornian

Count-your-change, what would the Jehovah's Witness answer to this be?

13 posted on 10/24/2011 1:08:34 PM PDT by Cronos (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2787101/posts?page=58#58)
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To: SENTINEL; count-your-change
He only made one false second coming prophecy compares to the JW's 7.

cyc-- does the Watchtower give any explanation for the wrong 7 prophecies?

14 posted on 10/24/2011 1:10:33 PM PDT by Cronos (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2787101/posts?page=58#58)
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To: Colofornian
Rules Rules Rules prople
15 posted on 10/24/2011 1:24:00 PM PDT by dixjea (+------------------)
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To: Colofornian

16 posted on 10/24/2011 1:26:03 PM PDT by dixjea (+------------------)
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To: Colofornian

17 posted on 10/24/2011 1:28:20 PM PDT by dixjea (+------------------)
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To: Colofornian

18 posted on 10/24/2011 1:36:26 PM PDT by dixjea (+------------------)
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To: Colofornian

There, thank you, now I know how to do it.


19 posted on 10/24/2011 1:38:13 PM PDT by dixjea (+------------------)
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To: Colofornian

There, thank you, now I know how to do it.


20 posted on 10/24/2011 1:38:38 PM PDT by dixjea (+------------------)
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To: Cronos
"He only made one false second coming prophecy compares to the JW's 7....
cyc-- does the Watchtower give any explanation for the wrong 7 prophecies?"

In typical cult fashion, the JW's blame the righteousness of the members. Jesus was going to come again, but YOU didn't pay us enough, etc., they say.

Heck I remember Ezra Taft Benson telling the whole church the reason he wasn't receiving any new revelation or performing miracles was because the church was "under condemnation" due to lack of tithes and works.....Really, he said that.

21 posted on 10/24/2011 1:47:09 PM PDT by SENTINEL (Mormonism...from Ezra Taft Benson to Reid and Romney in only one generation.)
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To: dixjea

I never knew Catherine Zeta-Jones was a Mormon? Or is she Jehovah’s Witness?


22 posted on 10/24/2011 4:10:57 PM PDT by ReformationFan
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To: Colofornian
Are any Mormons & JWs willing to answer that Q?

I am!

--MormonDude(It mattereth not.)

23 posted on 10/24/2011 4:51:05 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: SENTINEL
Ezra Taft Benson telling the whole church the reason he wasn't receiving any new revelation or performing miracles was because the church was "under condemnation" due to lack of tithes and works.....Really, he said that.

Wow....

24 posted on 10/24/2011 10:09:07 PM PDT by Cronos (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2787101/posts?page=58#58)
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To: Elsie; All
--MormonDude(It mattereth not.)

Allow me to get out my peepstone & my pet rock and "translate" Elsie's "It mattereth not."

You see, the Mormon god of Smith's "Doctrines & Covenants" "scriptures" isn't very "sovereign." He's hesitant. He's shifty. He's just not sure if polygamy is "out" or "in"; or what to do with somebody's darker skin as it pertains to their special priesthood.

Just about ALL of the D&C is written in first-person form -- as if the Mormon main god is speaking directly through Smith. Now, I ask you: Why would this Mormon god take the time to include the phrase, "it mattereth not" in the middle of giving counsel? (He's not saying "it doesn't matter" in response to a query or question.)

Two examples of 'it mattereth not':

* "And then you may return to bear record, yea, even altogether, or two by two, as seemeth you good, IT MATTERETH NOT UNTO ME (D&C 62:5)
* "Let there be a craft made, or bought, as seeth you good, IT MATTERETH NOT unto me... (D&C 60:5)

Right before this, the Mormon god is revoking commandments he just made (D&C 63:4; again, v. 5; again, v. 6)

You see, the Mormon god of the D&C isn't exactly a "take-charge" kind of guy. He doesn't come across as a true "Lord." He uses phrases like "as circumstances shall permit" -- as if the circumstances were "Lord" and not Him. Or he'll use the phrase "peradventure" repeatedly as if He was catering to random happenstance:

* "And verily I say unto you, the rest of my servants, go ye forth as your circumstances shall permit... (D&C 84:117 [circumstances are their "lord" of their lives?]
* "Therefore, you are dissolved as a united order with your brethren, that you are not bound only up to this hour unto them, only on this wise, as I said, by loan as shall be agreed by this order in council, as your circumstances will admit and the voice of the council direct." (D&C 104:53 -- the "United Order" btw, was the Mormon 19th century attempt @ socialistic communism)

Now the above isn't simply Joseph Smith giving orders as "prophet" of the church. He is speaking first-person throughout talking about how "all these properties are mine" (v. 55, etc.)

It's like the Mormon god is saying: "Do this...um...provided circumstances kick in and the council OKs it."

D&C 103:32-33: So much for a "sovereign" Mormon god here as well: "Therefore, if you cannot obtain five hundred, seek diligently that peradventure you may obtain three hundred. And if ye cannot obtain three hundred, seek diligently that peradventure ye may obtain one hundred." (Let's face it: The Mormon god just doesn't know how many)

In v. 35, the Mormon god uses the word "peradventure" for a third time...I mean, come on. Who's "lord" to who in this tall tales of Smith's "revelations?"

25 posted on 10/24/2011 11:09:40 PM PDT by Colofornian (Anyone who can be duped by Joseph Smith can be duped by anyone.)
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To: Colofornian
Allow me to get out my peepstone & my pet rock and "translate" Elsie's "It mattereth not."

I wrote that!

Do NOT be giving credit to ELSIE!

 
666 posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2011 8:35:28 AM by MormonDude (It DOES matter to ME!)
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26 posted on 10/25/2011 6:18:33 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Cronos; SENTINEL; count-your-change
He only made one false second coming prophecy compares to the JW's 7.

Nice qualifier!

But he DID make a LOT more false prophecies on differing subjects.

27 posted on 10/25/2011 6:26:02 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Tennessee Nana
The JWs have already claimed me as their slave”

Ha ha!

You'll get to hew some wood and draw some water that MOST of the JW's will be doing!

28 posted on 10/25/2011 6:31:36 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Colofornian; Saundra Duffy
You see, the Mormon god of the D&C isn't exactly a "take-charge" kind of guy. He doesn't come across as a true "Lord."
 
 
...and so forth.
 

Articles of Faith

The Articles of Faith outline 13 basic points of belief of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
The Prophet Joseph Smith first wrote them in a letter to John Wentworth, a newspaper editor,
in response to Mr. Wentworth's request to know what members of the Church believed.
They were subsequently published in Church periodicals.
They are now regarded as scripture and included in the Pearl of Great Price.

THE ARTICLES OF FAITH
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
History of the Church, Vol. 4, pp. 535—541

  1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
  2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
  3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
  4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
  5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
  6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
  7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
  8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
  9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
  10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
  11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
  12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
  13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Joseph Smith


 
 

29 posted on 10/25/2011 6:36:14 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Colofornian
He's hesitant. He's shifty.

1 Kings 18:27  (KJV)

 And it came to pass at noon, that Elijah mocked them, and said, Cry aloud: for he is a god; either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is in a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be awaked.


30 posted on 10/25/2011 6:41:52 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie
13.We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; except for them Bigoted Haters on FR!

--MormonDude(I do so wish they'd post more things that SLC thinks are good PR...)

31 posted on 10/25/2011 6:48:32 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: All

Hey! Where’s my Powers Boothe picture?


32 posted on 10/25/2011 10:03:50 PM PDT by POWERSBOOTHEFAN (Straight and proud.)
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