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Michael Voris Discusses Mormonism and Protestantism
Real Catholic TV ^ | 10/27/2011 | Michael Voris

Posted on 10/26/2011 9:32:38 PM PDT by rzman21

Michael Voris of RealCatholic TV discusses Mormonism and Protestantism: http://www.youtube.com/user/RealCatholicTV#p/search/0/zQZBukPUwAA


TOPICS: Catholic; Mainline Protestant; Religion & Politics; Religion & Science
KEYWORDS: helltoupee; inman; michaelvoris; mormonism; papist; papists; protestantism; realcatholictv; romancatholicism; romanism; romanist; romanists; romish; voris
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1 posted on 10/26/2011 9:32:39 PM PDT by rzman21
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To: rzman21

I was “informed” the other day on here that the Baptist religion was formed prior to Catholicism. The insinuation being that the Baptist religion was formed when John the Baptist was conceived...LOL!

The same person also stated that it was Catholics who cut books out of the Holy Bible and that the KJV was the only authentic Holy Scripture...LOL!

I just wonder if that person will show up, here, today.


2 posted on 10/27/2011 3:01:11 AM PDT by jacknhoo (Luke 12:51. Think ye, that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, no; but separation.)
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To: jacknhoo

Oh geez. That’s pathetic.

Satan is quite the master at deceiving people


3 posted on 10/27/2011 4:13:10 AM PDT by surroundedbyblue (Live the message of Fatima - pray & do penance!)
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To: jacknhoo

You can send that idiot this: http://www.catholic-convert.com/wp-content/uploads/Documents/TrailOfBlood.pdf

or this: http://books.google.com/books?id=OiMRAxZMqyMC&pg=PA149&lpg=PA149&dq=mcgoldrick+baptist+successionism&source=bl&ots=UEJ7Lj7rXt&sig=I4Dd0CC3dVrlv-6XnozkAVvAGas&hl=en&ei=OlGpTse7C4uOsAKT7JThDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CD4Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false


4 posted on 10/27/2011 5:47:03 AM PDT by vladimir998
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To: rzman21

http://www.youtube.com/user/RealCatholicTV#p/search/0/zQZBukPUwAA

Hopefully this link will take readers directly to the video.


5 posted on 10/27/2011 5:51:18 AM PDT by Not gonna take it anymore (Member of the First Church of Christ, I am Catholic)
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To: Not gonna take it anymore

That was interesting. I’ve never seen or heard Michael Voris before. He seems to be a combination of Sean Hannity looks and James Carville veracity.

One other thing, that was a discussion of Mormonism and Protestantism? No, it was a bashing of Protestantism occasioned by the opening given by Jeffresse. As such it is a patently dishonest effort and no more than an anti-Protestant rant. In a word, it was sleazy.


6 posted on 10/27/2011 6:38:37 AM PDT by Belteshazzar (We are not justified by our works but by faith - De Jacob et vita beata 2 +Ambrose of Milan)
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To: rzman21

Also interesting in regard to Mr. Voris:

“In 2006, St. Michael’s Media of Ferndale, Michigan, through its chief executive, Michael Voris, and his associates, requested approval of its apostolate and programming from the Archdiocese of Detroit. The Detroit archdiocese responded to their initial submission and gave them direction as to the additional information and steps that would need to be taken. At issue was, and is, compliance with our basic archdiocesan media protocols and those of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB). While there have been some discussions, the matter with St. Michael’s Media remains unresolved; it is not an approved apostolate.

“In 2008, a Web-based video provider named RealCatholicTV.com was launched, with Michael Voris as the primary host, producer-writer and manager, utilizing new and archive program material produced and provided, primarily, by St. Michael’s Media. The RealCatholicTV enterprise has yet to present itself or receive approval of its apostolate and programming from the Detroit archdiocese.

“Therefore, the catechetical presentations, the analysis of Catholic teachings or positions, and the commentary on Church leadership presented by St. Michael’s Media and/or RealCatholicTV— be they audio, video, or exclusively Web-based— cannot be approved or endorsed by the archdiocese at this time.”

Ned McGrath
Director of Communications
Archdiocese of Detroit
February 2011


7 posted on 10/27/2011 6:46:06 AM PDT by Belteshazzar (We are not justified by our works but by faith - De Jacob et vita beata 2 +Ambrose of Milan)
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To: rzman21; Belteshazzar
Michael Voris is the favourite talking head of the Catholic Taliban, that motley crew of traditionalists who believe in way-out stuff like “abortion is evil” and “Jesus rose on the third day”. He runs his own online TV station in Michigan and has hair so unreal it could be miraculous....He became a viral sensation after he posted a video arguing that democracy had been corrupted by the stupidity of the voters.
-- from the thread America's conservative Catholics are on the warpath. Republicans should be courting them.
See related threads:
Catholic Government [Michael Voris video]
CatholicTV calls for "Benevolent Dictatorship"?!
8 posted on 10/27/2011 8:12:35 AM PDT by Alex Murphy (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2703506/posts?page=518#518)
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To: Belteshazzar

What do you expect from the liberals in the archdiocesan curias around the country?

They want to make nice while their pews empty.


9 posted on 10/27/2011 1:00:39 PM PDT by rzman21
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To: rzman21

So, the Catholic Church, including its hierarchy, does not speak with one voice? And perhaps even stands in need of reformation? Who’da thunk it?


10 posted on 10/27/2011 1:28:05 PM PDT by Belteshazzar (We are not justified by our works but by faith - De Jacob et vita beata 2 +Ambrose of Milan)
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To: Belteshazzar

The magisterium of the Catholic Church speaks with one voice.

The Catholic Church needs reform, but the winds of modernism have taken the reins in the Catholic Church since Vatican II.

Pope Benedict has begun the process of turning things around. It will take another generation to restore orthodoxy.

The Protestant “Reformation” wasn’t a reformation at all. It was a revolution that created a new religion.


11 posted on 10/27/2011 1:46:43 PM PDT by rzman21
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To: vladimir998

Thank you for the excellent links...I read one and am reading the other.


12 posted on 10/27/2011 4:45:08 PM PDT by jacknhoo (Luke 12:51. Think ye, that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, no; but separation.)
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To: rzman21

I see. That’s a nice comfortable little box you live in.


13 posted on 10/27/2011 4:54:21 PM PDT by Belteshazzar (We are not justified by our works but by faith - De Jacob et vita beata 2 +Ambrose of Milan)
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To: Belteshazzar

Protestants can’t even agree among themselves on matters of essential Christian doctrine, yet they all profess to believe in the Bible alone.

If the Bible is so easy to understand, then why are there over 30,000 different Protestant sects with differing views?

The problems in the Catholic Church have been created since Vatican II by those in the Church who want to believe like Protestants, but lack the courage to admit it openly.


14 posted on 10/27/2011 6:07:05 PM PDT by rzman21
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To: Belteshazzar
... As such it is a patently dishonest effort...

Excuse me, what did you find that was "dishonest?"

15 posted on 10/27/2011 6:19:10 PM PDT by papertyger (What has islam ever accomplished that treacherous, opportunistic, brutality couldn't do on its own?)
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To: rzman21
The Protestant “Reformation” wasn’t a reformation at all. It was a revolution that created a new religion.

And what religion might that be?

16 posted on 10/27/2011 6:42:16 PM PDT by SkyDancer (Pilot: n. The Highest Form Of Life On Earth)
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To: rzman21
If the Bible is so easy to understand, then why are there over 30,000 different Protestant sects with differing views?

What was your previous screen name?

17 posted on 10/27/2011 6:49:00 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: rzman21; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; count-your-change; ...
If the Bible is so easy to understand, then why are there over 30,000 different Protestant sects with differing views?

Give us one example of one verse that has 30,000 differing interpretations.

For that matter, give us one verse which has as few as 5 differing interpretations.

18 posted on 10/27/2011 6:50:33 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: rzman21; Belteshazzar

***Protestants can’t even agree among themselves on matters of essential Christian doctrine, yet they all profess to believe in the Bible alone.***

Actualy, almost all protestant churches agree on the same doctrines for Salvation. It is only the irrelivant things that causes some to separate from others.

The ONE important thing they DO agree on is...”Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shall be saved!”


19 posted on 10/27/2011 7:08:19 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Click my name. See my home page, if you dare! NEW PHOTOS & PAINTINGS)
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To: rzman21

that video is based on false teaching

protestantism did not create a new book to define it’s faith, it stuck to one book to do so: THE BIBLE

it did NOT redefine doctrine, it stuck to original doctrine taught in the Bible, not doctrine evolved over centuries like Catholicism has


20 posted on 10/27/2011 7:47:00 PM PDT by RaceBannon (Ron Paul is to the Constitution what Fred Phelps is to the Bible.)
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To: papertyger

It was an attempt to lump Protestants in with Mormons. That’s dishonest ... and sleazy.


21 posted on 10/27/2011 7:49:05 PM PDT by Belteshazzar (We are not justified by our works but by faith - De Jacob et vita beata 2 +Ambrose of Milan)
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To: metmom; rzman21

Do you have any inside information that rzman21 is a retread?

Or do you just go around wildly accusing others of breaking the rules?


22 posted on 10/27/2011 9:26:12 PM PDT by WPaCon
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To: WPaCon; metmom; rzman21
Do you have any inside information that rzman21 is a retread? Or do you just go around wildly accusing others of breaking the rules?

When in Rome....

23 posted on 10/27/2011 9:28:48 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2703506/posts?page=518#518)
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To: Belteshazzar; papertyger; jacknhoo; surroundedbyblue
It was an attempt to lump Protestants in with Mormons. That’s dishonest ... and sleazy

Got to agree with Belt on this one, papertyger -- while we may fight, our Lutheran, Anglican etc. brethren hold to the Nicene Creed -- even Baptists hold to the basic tenets and the Trinity.

Mormonism doesn't -- they hold to many godS. That points out the inherent dislogic in their religion -- it cannot be a continuation of Judaism if it is not monotheistic.

There is no theological comparison between Mormonism and any lutheran, baptist, catholic, methodist etc. Christian Church.

In fact as I've said before, the umbrella term "Protestant" holds many viewpoints, some of which: Lutheran, traditional Anglican and to some extent Methodism are VERY close to orthodoxy in belief in Christ, His sacraments etc. Among Assemblies of God and Southern Baptists there is more distance but they still hold to a Trinitarian view. There are some like Oneness Pentecostals who hold a completely divergent viewpoint, but they are also at odds with the Anglican, Methodist,Lutheran beliefs, so clubbing those together is nonsensical. I refuse to use the p word anymore for that reason.

The Mormons on the other hand are a whole different proposition -- yes, they arose out of the Revivalist movement in the 1800s, and borrowed elements from Baptists ("Great apostasy"), but theologically it is like comparing American or French or German democracy with Saudi theocracy.

24 posted on 10/27/2011 9:33:32 PM PDT by Cronos (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2787101/posts?page=58#58)
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To: Alex Murphy

Imitation is the highest form of flattery ;)


25 posted on 10/27/2011 10:07:17 PM PDT by WPaCon
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To: rzman21; Belteshazzar
If the Bible is so easy to understand, then why are there over 30,000 different Protestant sects with differing views?

#1 Name 'em if you've counted 'em. (I won't tap my foot waiting)

#2 Round up 10 Roman Catholic women in one room from around the world. We won't even ask them what they believe on every "Roman Catholic" doctrine. We'll just ask them their position on associated issues such as birth control, sexuality, marriage and abortion:

* One will consider the pill as a potential source of abortion.
* One will be on the pill herself.
* One will consider to be pro-life from conception to beyond birth.
* One will have already gotten one or more abortions.
* One will promote abstinence until marriage.
* One can't remember with how many boys/men she's slept with.
* One will eschew divorce with zealousness.
* One will be divorced once or more at her own initiative for no Biblical reason.
* One will closely adhere to what the Pope and Vatican utters.
* One won't even have them within their radar screen.
* Shall I go on...?

I don't even have to outline all the distinct "camps" within Catholicism.

Hey, all I have to do to show you "Catholic diversity" on key doctrines is to go visit 10 distinct Catholic homes.

I'd recommend removing that beam in your eye, but hey, my own eyesight is rather poor and full of too many splinters myself...but I would -- if I were you -- go see a specialist. You gotta major timber industry goin' on there...

26 posted on 10/27/2011 11:02:33 PM PDT by Colofornian (Mitt 'straight'-armed the Utah 'Scouts in the Olympics)
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To: jacknhoo
I was “informed” the other day on here that the Baptist religion was formed prior to Catholicism. The insinuation being that the Baptist religion was formed when John the Baptist was conceived...LOL!

Why the laugh?

It's just as LOGICAL as Peter being the first pope; isn't it?

27 posted on 10/28/2011 3:49:16 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: rzman21
It was a revolution that created a new religion.

Out of the dustheap of the old?

You know; JEWS say the same about Christianity as a whole.

Do they have a point?

28 posted on 10/28/2011 3:51:13 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: rzman21
The magisterium of the Catholic Church speaks with one voice.

Seems like a LOT of your folks ain't LISTENING!!


The Catholic Church needs reform, but the winds of modernism have taken the reins in the Catholic Church since Vatican II.

Did the magisterium go to sleep?


Pope Benedict has begun the process of turning things around. It will take another generation to restore orthodoxy.

WHAT??

Then your 'magisterium' needs to YELL! instead of SPEAK!

29 posted on 10/28/2011 3:55:04 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: rzman21
If the Bible is so easy to understand, then why are there over 30,000 different Protestant sects with differing views?

If we TOLD you; then the CATHOLIC church would know why IT isn't monolithic!

30 posted on 10/28/2011 3:56:59 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar; rzman21; Belteshazzar
***Protestants can’t even agree among themselves on matters of essential Christian doctrine, yet they all profess to believe in the Bible alone.***

John 6:28-29

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”


31 posted on 10/28/2011 3:58:54 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: RaceBannon
that video is based on false teaching

And an IMAGE is VERY hard to get rid of!

Thus; one of the ten...

32 posted on 10/28/2011 3:59:54 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Belteshazzar
It was an attempt to lump Protestants in with Mormons. That’s dishonest ... and sleazy.

Uh; not really; for it appears that CATHOLICS have lumped EVERYONE into the same basket: NON-catholic.

33 posted on 10/28/2011 4:01:18 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: WPaCon
Or do you just go around wildly accusing others of breaking the rules?

Now THIS is rich!


“Therefore, the catechetical presentations, the analysis of Catholic teachings or positions, and the commentary on Church leadership presented by St. Michael’s Media and/or RealCatholicTV— be they audio, video, or exclusively Web-based— cannot be approved or endorsed by the archdiocese at this time.”

34 posted on 10/28/2011 4:03:27 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Belteshazzar

I’ll ask again: how so?


35 posted on 10/28/2011 5:32:36 AM PDT by papertyger (What has islam ever accomplished that treacherous, opportunistic, brutality couldn't do on its own?)
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To: Cronos

Nonsense.

He makes completely valid points. He correctly points out that Protestantism is heretical, and snickers at the “test” the baptist minister uses, because it could be fairly applied to his own sect.

If others want to gag on the gnat of “special books” because Mormons positively wrote their own and Protestants just negatively truncated the real bible, they are choking on a philosophical “distinction without difference” in that they ARE using altered scriptures.

He never says Protestants aren’t Christian, while he does make that claim that for Mormonism.

It should be remembered that while yes, Mormonism has gone completely off the reservation, Protestantism was a theological stepping stone for that journey. They ARE heretical.

That certain Protestants get hot under that collar when the facts are pointed out does nothing to impeach those facts. I’d be more impressed with their protestations if they would fairly answer the questions we have been posing to them for years instead of turning into vicious snapping dogs when they find themselves theologically challenged by biblically knowledgable Catholics.


36 posted on 10/28/2011 6:05:15 AM PDT by papertyger (What has islam ever accomplished that treacherous, opportunistic, brutality couldn't do on its own?)
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To: Elsie
You know; JEWS say the same about Christianity as a whole.

Yes, but the difference is we aren't trying to tell the Jews they're wrong. Mormons insist they are still Christian.

37 posted on 10/28/2011 6:12:44 AM PDT by papertyger (What has islam ever accomplished that treacherous, opportunistic, brutality couldn't do on its own?)
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To: Elsie

Why is it rich?

And how does your quote relate to the rest of your comment?


38 posted on 10/28/2011 6:24:39 AM PDT by WPaCon
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To: papertyger
Yes, but the difference is we aren't trying to tell the Jews they're wrong.

Well of course you are...You guys always do...You tell them that you are the new Jews and that God is done with them...They don't believe that at all...

You tell them that they have no physical inheritance of a literal promised land...They are right and they know they are right...

Mormons insist they are still Christian.

If Catholics are Christians, Mormons are just as Christian...Every body's a Christian now days...

Their religion isn't any more whacked out than yours...At least they don't have people all over the world claiming to have seen the ghost of Mary who tells them to believe things that contradict the scriptures...

You guys, the Mormons, the Islamaniacs and the Jehovah Witnesses all have at lest one thing in common...

You believe only the parts of the scriptures that line up with your religion...

39 posted on 10/28/2011 6:57:23 AM PDT by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailerpark...)
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To: Iscool

Do try to keep up.

The context of the point was on being a “different religion.”


40 posted on 10/28/2011 7:09:13 AM PDT by papertyger (What has islam ever accomplished that treacherous, opportunistic, brutality couldn't do on its own?)
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To: papertyger

papertyger wrote:
“I’ll ask again: how so?”

Well, my friend, if you cannot discern the lack of ethics yourself, I will not be able to help you.

One more thing, a direct quotation of Michael Voris from the video - even printed on the screen so one cannot miss it. According to Voris Martin Luther said that anyone had the right to read the Bible and take it “to mean whatever they wanted it to mean.”

That, sir, is a lie ... and that makes Michael Voris a liar. If you want to support such activity, that is your business.


41 posted on 10/28/2011 9:58:17 AM PDT by Belteshazzar (We are not justified by our works but by faith - De Jacob et vita beata 2 +Ambrose of Milan)
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To: Belteshazzar
Well, my friend, if you cannot discern the lack of ethics yourself, I will not be able to help you.

Well gee, that seems like a pretty unethical way of admitting you can't give a cogent, much less testable, answer, but I guess that's your prerogative when the only one you have to convince is yourself.

One more thing, a direct quotation of Michael Voris from the video - even printed on the screen so one cannot miss it. According to Voris Martin Luther said that anyone had the right to read the Bible and take it “to mean whatever they wanted it to mean.”

That, sir, is a lie ...

No, that's a paraphrase in the context of a commentary. And it's a commentary from a theological critic, so if you're looking for candy coating on that gnat you want to gagging on, you're going to have to look further.

The only people who take "pro-choice" folks seriously when they start wailing over being called "pro-abortion" are other people who are pro-abortion.

That doesn't turn those who will not abide by their conceit into liars.

42 posted on 10/28/2011 10:20:32 AM PDT by papertyger (What has islam ever accomplished that treacherous, opportunistic, brutality couldn't do on its own?)
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To: papertyger

papertyger stated:
“That certain Protestants get hot under that collar when the facts are pointed out does nothing to impeach those facts. I’d be more impressed with their protestations if they would fairly answer the questions we have been posing to them for years instead of turning into vicious snapping dogs when they find themselves theologically challenged by biblically knowledgable Catholics.”

“Hot under the collar”? Oh, I don’t think so. Tired of the calumny? Pretty much. I don’t know if that makes me one of your “vicious snapping dogs.” I’ll let you be the arbiter of such pronouncements.

Finally, I can’t speak for the Protestants - I doubt anyone could. I can only speak for Lutherans - who don’t consider themselves Protestants (a pejorative term affixed to all who disagree with them by the church of Rome - but then you probably know that). Lutherans put out the Augsburg Confession in 1530 in order to get the church to examine itself in the light of God’s Word. The response was, as I’m sure you know, the Confutation. The Confutation was answered by the Lutherans with the Apology (Defense) of the Augsburg Confession in 1531. As the Lutherans did these things it was their heads on the block, as Rome had already made crystal clear. (Funny how the church, to whom our Lord and His apostles forbade use of the sword, was made to feel perfectly justified to use it when it suited the powers that be in Rome ... but that’s another chapter).

To make a long story short, the Lutheran asked repeatedly for a church council amid a fair amount of foot-dragging on the part of Rome. Finally, one was convened in Trent in 1545, which again I’m sure you know. There, among other things, justification by grace through faith for the sake of Jesus Christ was anathematized. That is to say, it was declared by the assembled prelates (though not unanimously) that anyone who so teaches, confesses or believes is going to hell.

The entire content of Trent was answered, for the Lutherans, by Martin Chemnitz. The book, originally written in Latin, of course, is available in English as “Examination of the Canons and Decrees of the Council of Trent.” It is in four volumes, available from Concordia Publishing House. So, sir, the Lutherans have fairly answered biblically knowledgeable Catholics more than once (and many more examples could be given, but these are the chief ones).

I don’t imagine you will trouble yourself with reading such things - although perhaps you will surprise and amaze me - but there they are nonetheless.

A pleasant day to you, sir.


43 posted on 10/28/2011 10:26:32 AM PDT by Belteshazzar (We are not justified by our works but by faith - De Jacob et vita beata 2 +Ambrose of Milan)
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To: Belteshazzar
So, sir, the Lutherans have fairly answered biblically knowledgeable Catholics more than once (and many more examples could be given, but these are the chief ones).

Gee, do you feel vindicated now that you've substituted both the audience and the context of my statement for a more you-friendly recitation of history?

Tell you what, lets start over and just discuss faith and practice as it exists today....whaddaya say?

44 posted on 10/28/2011 10:40:02 AM PDT by papertyger (What has islam ever accomplished that treacherous, opportunistic, brutality couldn't do on its own?)
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To: papertyger
Protestants just negatively truncated the real bible,

DAMN them Protestants!!


Uh...

Just what VITAL teachings, and rituals, and essential things disappeared when that happened?

45 posted on 10/28/2011 12:21:22 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: WPaCon

You’re kidding; right?


46 posted on 10/28/2011 12:22:09 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: papertyger
Tell you what, lets start over and just discuss faith and practice as it exists today....whaddaya say?

When He returns; will He find any?

47 posted on 10/28/2011 12:24:10 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: papertyger

Still stuck at 47 posts ... bummer. Looks like no one is interested in a fight.


48 posted on 10/28/2011 7:15:44 PM PDT by Belteshazzar (We are not justified by our works but by faith - De Jacob et vita beata 2 +Ambrose of Milan)
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To: Belteshazzar; papertyger

No one’s going to be interested in a fight that seems designed to accept Mormonism as Christian in any way. An argument against a Mormon is completely different from an intra-Christian debate — especially with those who share in orthodoxy in terms of our belief in our Lord, God and SAvior Jesus Christ, the Trinity, Nicene Creed and Sacraments


49 posted on 10/28/2011 9:17:21 PM PDT by Cronos (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2787101/posts?page=58#58)
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To: Cronos

Well, Cronos, I for one have no interest in a fight designed to lump those who are clearly Christian in their confession together with those who by theirs are not. Nor am I interested in a fight about whose organization is superior ... how utterly pointless. I am interested in faithfulness to Christ, the one and only Lord of the Church and Savior of the world. I know that we two do not agree on all things (but we do on the creeds, all three of them), but I have never doubted your conviction that Christ is Lord and Savior and that in Him alone is salvation, and that, further, those who are His by faith are just that.


50 posted on 10/28/2011 10:02:44 PM PDT by Belteshazzar (We are not justified by our works but by faith - De Jacob et vita beata 2 +Ambrose of Milan)
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