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ELCA Leaders Pushing For Marriage Equality and Abortion
Exposing the ELCA ^ | 10/20/11 | Dan Skogen

Posted on 10/27/2011 4:31:34 PM PDT by rhema

Almost 100 ELCA pastors and leaders have endorsed a declaration entitled, “Religious Declaration on Sexual Morality, Justice, and Healing.” In this document, the ELCA leaders call for marriage equality for homosexuals, and they voice their commitment to abortion, among other things.

Concerning marriage equality and abortion, the declaration says, “We call for:”
- “Full inclusion of women and LGBT persons in congregational life, including their ordination and marriage equality.”
- “A faith-based commitment to sexual and reproductive rights, including access to voluntary contraception, abortion, and HIV/STI prevention and treatment.” (read here)

Here is the list of ELCA pastors and leaders who signed this public declaration:

Rev. Michael E. Allwein; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, ELCA; Gettysburg, PA

Rev. Dr. LaVonne Althouse; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, Retired Pastor, Evangelical Lutheran Church in America; Lititz, PA

Rev. Glenn M. Anderson; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, ELCA; Park Rapids, MN

Rev. Kirk Anderson; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, Emmanuel Lutheran Church, Prescott Valley, AZ; Dewey, AZ

Rev. Dr. Theodore W. Asta; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, Lutherans Concerned; Worcester, MA

Reverend John F. Backe; Lutheran, Our Savior's Lutheran Church; Denver, CO

Rev. Ernest R. Barr; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, Faith Lutheran Church; Wichita Falls, TX

Rev. Ruth Bosch Becker; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, ELCA, retired Campus Pastor; Cranberry Twp, PA

Rev. Joel Benbow; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, ELCA; Edina, MN

Rev. Arne Bergland; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, California Lutheran University; Thousand Oaks, CA

Dr. Charles Bergstrom; Lutheran, Lutheran Pastor, Evangelical Lutheran Church in America; W Yarmouth, MA

Rev. James E. Boline; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, St. Paul Lutheran Church; Santa Monica, CA

Rev. Shawn Brandon; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, ELCA; Baudette, MN

Rev. Dr. Thomas Edwards Breed; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, St. Andrew Lutheran Church; Cedar Rapids, IA

Dr. Pamela Brubaker; Brethren, Associate Professor, California Lutheran University; Thousand Oaks Rd, CA

Rev. Laurie Larson Caesar; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, ELCA; Beaverton, OR

Rev. Paul Carlson; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, Highlands Lutheran Church; Denver, CO

Rev. Dr. Herbert W. Chilstrom; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, Former Presiding Bishop, ELCA; St. Peter, MN

Rev. Erin Clausen; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, St. James Lutheran Church; Western Springs, IL

Rev. Barbara Condon; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, ELCA; Idaho Falls, ID

Rev. Dr. Samuel Cruz; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, Assistant Professor of Religion and Society, Union Theological Seminary; New York, NY

Rev. Sandra D. Dager; Lutheran, Pastor, Grace Lutheran Church; Palo Alto, CA

Rev. Dr. Amandus J. Derr; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, Pastor, Saint Peter's Church; New York, NY

Rev. Dr. Thomas Dorsey; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, Trinity Evangelical Lutheran Church; New York, NY

Ms. Emily Eastwood; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, Lutherans Concerned/North America

Rev. Dr. Sandra Ellis-Killian; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, St. John's Lutheran Church, Ambler, PA; Glenside, PA

Reverend Joanne Elise Engquist; Lutheran, Pastor, University Lutheran Church; Cambridge, MA

Dr. R. Guy Erwin; Lutheran, Professor, California Lutheran University; Thousand Oaks, CA

Rev. Paul Fauske; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, pastor, Evangelical Church in America; Mercer Island, WA

Rev. Travis Fisher; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, ELCA; Davenport, IA

Reverend Ray Flachmeier; Lutheran, Pastor, Resurrection Lutheran Church; Plano, TX

Rev. Robert Franek; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, Pastor, Faith Lutheran Church; Galesburg, IL

Rev. John L. Freesemann; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, Holy Redeemer Lutheran Church; San Jose, CA

Rev. Ruth Frost; Lutheran, Chaplain, Hospice of the Twin Cities; Minneapolis, MN

Rev. Sue Gaeta; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America

Rev. Dr. Paula J. Gravelle; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, Ellis Hospital; Watervliet, NY

Rev. Anne Hall; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, Seattle University Lutheran Church, ELCA; Seattle, WA

Rev. Katherine Hellier; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, Zion Lutheran Church in America; Portland, OR

Rev. Jill Henning; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, Trinity Lutheran Church

Ms. Cheryl Heuer; Dean of Students and Registrar, Pacific Lutheran Theological Seminary; Berkeley, CA

Rev. Anita C. Hill; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, Co-Pastor, St. Paul-Reformation Lutheran Church; Saint Paul, MN

Rev. Emory A. Hingst; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, Florida Bahamas Synod; Tallahassee, FL

Rev. Alfred O. Hoerig; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, Grace Lutheran SAWC, ELCA; Elgin, TX

Rev. Dr. John F. Hoffmeyer; Lutheran, Asst. Prof. of Systematic Theology, Lutheran Theological Seminary in Philadelphia; Philadelphia, PA

Rev. David Holmquist; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, Calvary Lutheran Church, ELCA; Eureka, CA

Rev. Magdalene Holm-Roesler; Lutheran, Holy Cross Lutheran Church, ELCA; Austin, TX

Reverend Dr. John B. Hougen; Lutheran, St. John's Lutheran Church; Melrose Park, PA

Pastor Timothy Hoyer; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, Gloria Dei Lutheran Church; Lakewood, NY

Pastor John Hugus; Lutheran, Pastor, Evangelical Lutheran Church in America; Jacksonville, FL

Pastor Alexander Jacobs; Lutheran, Campus Pastor, Lutheran Campus Ministry at UW-Milwaukee; Milwaukee, WI

Reverend Denton R. Kees; Lutheran, ELCA; Stroudsburg, PA

Pastor Donald M. King; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, Hope Lutheran Church; Cleveland Heights, OH

Rev. Donald J. Knecht; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, retired; Minneapolis, MN

Rev. Dr. Robert Kriesat; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, Retired; Morristown, NJ

Rev. Frederick Lentz; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, St. Andrew Lutheran Church; Parsippany, NJ

Rev. Mark Lingle; Lutheran, St. Francis Episcopal Church; Stamford, CT

Rev. Dr. Barbara K. Lundblad; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, Union Theological Seminary and Advent Lutheran Church; New York, NY

Rev. Catherine Malotky; Lutheran, ELCA Board of Pensions; Minnetonka, MN

Rev. Dr. David Miller; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, Central States Synod, ELCA; Lenexa, KS

Rev. Gwendolyn E. Miller; Lutheran, Martin Luther Lutheran Church

Rev. Paul E. Mullins; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, Grace Evangelical Lutheran Church; San Francisco, CA

Rev. Dr. Heidi Neumark; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, Trinity Lutheran Church; New York, NY

Rev. Karen E. Norman Rees; Lutheran, Evangelical Lutheran Church; Peoria, IL

Reverend Edward D. O'Donnell Jr.; Lutheran, Reverend, VITAS Healthcare

Rev. D.M. Olson; ELCA Lutheran, Mother, ELCA; Milwaukee, WI

Rev. David C Parsons; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, St. John-St. Matthew-Emanuel Lutheran Church (ELCA); Brooklyn, NY

Rev. David Ethan Olson; Lutheran, Berwyn United Lutheran Church; Berwyn, IL

Rev. Janis Pauliks; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, MNYS; Brooklyn, NY

Reverend Dr. Gary Pence; Lutheran, Professor of Pastoral Theology, Pacific Lutheran Theological Seminary; Berkeley, CA

Rev. Pamela Griffith Pond; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, Marin Interfaith Worker Justice; Novato, CA

Rev. Mary Robinson; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, ELCA; New London, CT

Rev. C. Franklin Samuelson; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, ELCA Retired Clergy; Moline, IL

Reverend Gilbert Rossing; Lutheran, Retired, Evangelical Lutheran Church of America; Grapevine, TX

Rev. Ronald Rude; Lutheran, Lutheran Campus Ministry; Tucson, AZ

Prof. Loyal Rue; Lutheran, Professor of Religion and Philosophy, Luther College; Decorah, IA

Rev. Rodney W. Seeger; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, ELCA; Mill Valley, CA

Rev. Timothea Sharpe; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, Midlands Pastoral Care Associates; Prosperity, SC

Professor Mary Shields; Associate Professor of Old Testament, Trinity Lutheran Seminary; Columbus, OH

Rev. Dr. Jim A. Siefkes; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, ELCA; Minneapolis, MN

Rev. Timothy Singleton; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, New Horizons Lutheran Church; Falcon, CO

Rev. Craig Sommer; Lutheran, St. Martin's Lutheran Church; Austin, TX

Rev. Susan F. Sprowls; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, Lutheran Campus Ministry at the University of Michigan; Ann Arbor, MI

John Stendahl; Lutheran, Pastor, Lutheran Church of the Newtons, Newton, MA

Mr. William Stewart; Lutheran, Thornton Friends School; Alexandria, VA

Rev. Kevin Stickland; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, Pastor, St. Paul Lutheran Church; Maryville, TN

Rev. Susan M. Strouse; Lutheran, First United Lutheran Church; San Francisco, CA

Rev. Wayne Tellekson; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, ELCA; Minneapolis, MN

Rev. Andrew Tengwall; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, Lutheran Church of the Savior; Kalamazoo, MI

Rev. Gerald L. Thompson; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America

Reverend Paul A. Tidemann; Lutheran, St. Paul-Reformation Lutheran Church; St. Paul, MN

Ms. Julie Tillberg; Lutheran, Hosanna Lutheran Church; Plattsmouth, NE

Rev. Thomas Von Fischer; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, Retired; Minneapolis, MN

Reverend Gloria Weber; Lutheran, Interfaith Voices for Peace and Justice; St. Louis, MO

Rev. June Wilkins; Lutheran, St. Martin's Lutheran Church

Rev. Susan E. Wolfe; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, St. Matthew's Lutheran Church; North Hollywood, CA; North Hollywood, CA

Rev. Phyllis Zillhart; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, Hospice Chaplain, Fairview Home Care and Hospice; Minneapolis, MN

Reverend Jennifer E. Zima; Lutheran, Pastor, Evangelical Lutheran Church in America; Falls Church, VA

Rev. Martin Otto Zimmann; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, ELCA; Holland, OH

See the list of all endorsers here.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Mainline Protestant; Moral Issues
KEYWORDS: abortion; abortions; childmurder; elca; homosexualagenda; lutheran; moralabsolutes; prolife; sodomy

1 posted on 10/27/2011 4:31:37 PM PDT by rhema
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To: rhema

Cue the Claude Raines picture...


2 posted on 10/27/2011 4:34:49 PM PDT by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: rhema

Ha!
Paraphasing Stalin’s “How many divisions does the Pope have?”
The question will be “How many Congregations does the ELCA still have?”


3 posted on 10/27/2011 4:49:52 PM PDT by nkycincinnatikid
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To: rhema; 185JHP; 230FMJ; AFA-Michigan; AKA Elena; Abathar; Absolutely Nobama; Albion Wilde; ...
Homosexual Agenda and Moral Absolutes Ping!

Freepmail wagglebee to subscribe or unsubscribe from the homosexual agenda or moral absolutes ping list.

FreeRepublic homosexual agenda keyword search
[ Add keyword homosexual agenda to flag FR articles to this ping list ]

FreeRepublic moral absolutes keyword search
[ Add keyword moral absolutes to flag FR articles to this ping list ]


4 posted on 10/27/2011 5:04:35 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

what Holy Bible do they read from and how many have left under this church?

The fools who go to church and then say they have no problem with homosexuals because they met one in church and they are nice so now they have no problem with them marrying.
Even one poster on here said that crap, sickening

I left the Anglican because of this crap and will never set foot in that church again.

The homo’s have infiltrated churches, military, tried the scouts, Govt, control the media.

Where is those who have a voice and on the right?

No not Hannity the fraud or any of them phony’s, they’re just cowards or not conservative.


5 posted on 10/27/2011 5:17:24 PM PDT by manc ( Marriage=1man+1 woman http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=hxlcVAEj0sM&vq=large)
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To: manc
Where is those who have a voice and on the right?

No not Hannity the fraud or any of them phony’s, they’re just cowards or not conservative.

I know exactly what you mean.

6 posted on 10/27/2011 5:19:27 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: rhema
The church in which my grandparents married and my mother was baptized is on that list.

My grandparents did not live to see this, and my mother cannot understand it any longer - thank God.

7 posted on 10/27/2011 5:20:28 PM PDT by Jim Noble (To live peacefully with credit-based consumption and fiat money, men would have to be angels.)
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To: rhema

Oh, how I’d rather my 82 y.o. mother would be spending my inheritance on a motor home than throwing it into the cesspool of the ELCA..... :o(


8 posted on 10/27/2011 5:23:05 PM PDT by luckymom (Forget the baby whales, save the baby humans.)
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To: rhema
Homosexuality, I can see. I have heard the arguments -- specious as they are -- regarding God loving all His children, even the errant ones.

But abortion? How can anyone who believes in the Christian God possibly endorse the murder of unborn children? How can a supposed minister of the gospel of Jesus Christ hide behind such cowardly euphemisms as "reproductive rights" and "voluntary contraception"? They of all people have to know that their rhetorical smokescreens can't hide them from the wrath of the Almighty, and from an ultimate accounting for their sins.

9 posted on 10/27/2011 5:29:37 PM PDT by IronJack (=)
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To: rhema

Subtitle: Denomination Can’t Get to Hell Fast Enough


10 posted on 10/27/2011 5:39:23 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: nkycincinnatikid
The funny part is that ELCA preachers and Chicago bigwigs will pull this kind of obscenity, then stand around scratching their heads and paying consultants to find out why their church is dying.
11 posted on 10/27/2011 5:40:46 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: rhema

Sadly, there is no surprise here. The cult of death is endeavoring to seize control of the church from the Lord of life. But all you’ve really done is taken control of the bridge of the Titanic. All the lifeboats have either departed or are full and being lowered. You together with the crew and passengers who remain will go down together.


12 posted on 10/27/2011 5:45:35 PM PDT by Belteshazzar (We are not justified by our works but by faith - De Jacob et vita beata 2 +Ambrose of Milan)
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To: IronJack

Just once I would like to see one of these loons be staunchly against “gay marriage” but for abortion. Or the other way around.

All this stuff seems to go together. If someone is for one of these things, it’s like they are always full bore for the other. Every time.

Freegards


13 posted on 10/27/2011 5:52:25 PM PDT by Ransomed
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To: nkycincinnatikid

I think the more important question is, “How many Christians does the ELCA still have?” (Answer: Apparently not many)


14 posted on 10/27/2011 6:51:12 PM PDT by CitizenUSA (What's special about bad? Bad is easy. Anyone can do bad. Aspire to be good!)
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To: MrEdd

I’m glad I left the ELCA in 1994 for Catholicism. I saw this coming.


15 posted on 10/27/2011 7:16:02 PM PDT by rzman21
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To: wagglebee

It astounds me how many people listen to certain radio talk show hosts or in some cases like Hannity.

Hannity and some others are nothing but frauds.
They put on shows for us vets but would not let us vets talk about don’t ask, he wouldn’t even let us comment on his show as the screener cut us all off.

These so called conservative talk radio and TV hosts are never talking about conservative issues and yet some conservatives listen and watch them.
Astounding.

Most of these are phony’s , cowards or liberals on social issues and if they are liberal on social issues then they are not conservatives but libertarians , sad part is that they do call themselves conservatives, take conservative money , fool some conservatives and then get power with the establishment and that certainly goes for Hannity.

Why on this earth any conservative especially off here would listen or watch certain show hosts is beyond me as I thought conservatives could point out phony’s or liberals right away.


16 posted on 10/27/2011 7:25:34 PM PDT by manc ( Marriage=1man+1 woman http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=hxlcVAEj0sM&vq=large)
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To: IronJack

Because abortions and homosexuality go together. They both ultimately have the same agenda, i.e., destroying all male/female distinctions and subverting the procreative instinct from creating more humans who might worship Christ.


17 posted on 10/27/2011 9:24:15 PM PDT by ReformationFan
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To: hinckley buzzard

hinckley buzzard wrote:
“The funny part is that ELCA preachers and Chicago bigwigs will pull this kind of obscenity, then stand around scratching their heads and paying consultants to find out why their church is dying.”

On the last Sunday in September, I walked out of the ELCA congregation I have belonged to for all of my 62 years for the last time and have affiliated myself with a Church of the Nazarene congregation where I at last feel free to worship without my conscience being violated by the non-Biblical teachings of the ELCA. I’m a church revitalization specialist, by the way. The ELCA could have used my help but they don’t seem interested in congregational revitalization. I notice that The North American Lutheran Church is really into outreach and congregational revitalization. God bless them and let them prosper with many churches restored to health and many converts.


18 posted on 10/27/2011 11:59:26 PM PDT by MarilynBr
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To: rhema; Chode; All; Tax-chick

“Concerning marriage equality and abortion, the declaration says, “We call for:”
- “Full inclusion of women and LGBT persons in congregational life, including their ordination and marriage equality.”
- “A faith-based commitment to sexual and reproductive rights, including access to voluntary contraception, abortion, and HIV/STI prevention and treatment.””

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

It is just my imagination, or do I get the feeling that the ELCA, which has more homo clergy than strait is now telling women to kill their unborn babies and to use contraception as often as possible? Should I be surprised at this if this is the case? I just want to make sure I have not spent too much time at Mass, so fill me in here want to make sure this is not clouding my judgement.


19 posted on 10/28/2011 9:17:01 AM PDT by Morgana ("Since using your shampoo my hair has come alive!" ----Medusa)
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To: IronJack; All

“How can a supposed minister of the gospel of Jesus Christ hide behind such cowardly euphemisms as “reproductive rights” and “voluntary contraception”? “

I really wish you would help me out in this subject matter! Am having an discussion with some protestants on this very topic. They believe married couples should use contraception as long as it does not kill the fetus. Their argument is “people who can’t afford them should not have them”. I said that most of the time people are spending their money on material possessions and not children. They say that since contraception is not listed in scripture this is for the family not church to decide. Oh gee, did God not say “go and populate the Earth”?


20 posted on 10/28/2011 9:27:31 AM PDT by Morgana ("Since using your shampoo my hair has come alive!" ----Medusa)
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To: Morgana

My post did not address all forms of contraception, just the cavalier view of abortion in that role. What God meant by “Go forth and populate the Earth” is subject to interpretation. “Thou shalt not kill” seems pretty straightforward. And while Satan may be able to deceive the temporal powers with his rhetorical sleight-of-hand, there is little doubt that abortion is murder. How a proclaimed minister of the Gospel can endorse that practice is a mystery to me. And why anyone sincere in their faith would follow one of these apostates is even more confounding.


21 posted on 10/28/2011 9:38:10 AM PDT by IronJack (=)
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To: Morgana

It is a question of intent. If the intent is not to have children in order to pursue financial gain, or pursue a career (a “me-first” attitude), then you need to rethink your values; why did you get married in the first place? If the intent is to delay for whatever reason (school, medical concerns, etc.), then perhaps it is okay.
It is also a question of the type of birth control. Abortifacient birth controls are certainly not the best since they can prevent implantation, while non-abortifacient birth controls just prevent fertilization. In general, if a church is going to be okay with birth control and still be Biblical, it will say that preventing fertilization is okay, but once the egg has been fertilized it should be in God’s hands.
As for the statement that “People who cannot afford them should not have them,” there are 2 ways to take it. Are they saying that they don’t believe God will provide for them if they have a child? Alternatively, are those who say that “God will provide” means that they should have all the kids they can putting God to the test by having more children than they can afford to provide for?


22 posted on 10/28/2011 10:50:16 AM PDT by Conservaliberty (If Paul and Palin were running mates, would their foreign policies be like matter and anti-matter?)
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To: rhema

The ELCA is now an unholy owned subsidiary of Satan, Inc.


23 posted on 10/28/2011 10:54:33 AM PDT by upsdriver ( http://grizzlyfest.com/)
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To: Conservaliberty

“As for the statement that “People who cannot afford them should not have them,” there are 2 ways to take it. Are they saying that they don’t believe God will provide for them if they have a child? Alternatively, are those who say that “God will provide” means that they should have all the kids they can putting God to the test by having more children than they can afford to provide for?”

This whole thing makes me think of Matthew 6:24-33

24
15 “No one can serve two masters. He will either hate one and love the other, or be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.
25
16 “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat (or drink), or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food and the body more than clothing?
26
Look at the birds in the sky; they do not sow or reap, they gather nothing into barns, yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are not you more important than they?
27
Can any of you by worrying add a single moment to your life-span? 17
28
Why are you anxious about clothes? Learn from the way the wild flowers grow. They do not work or spin.
29
But I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was clothed like one of them.
30
18 If God so clothes the grass of the field, which grows today and is thrown into the oven tomorrow, will he not much more provide for you, O you of little faith?
31
So do not worry and say, ‘What are we to eat?’ or ‘What are we to drink?’ or ‘What are we to wear?’
32
All these things the pagans seek. Your heavenly Father knows that you need them all.
33
But seek first the kingdom (of God) and his righteousness, 19 and all these things will be given you besides.
34
Do not worry about tomorrow; tomorrow will take care of itself. Sufficient for a day is its own evil.

In this day and age I have yet to see people have children to “test God” but I suppose anything could happen. It seems they are aborting them because of the “me first” attitude.

I believe you are correct, they don’t have faith that “God will provide”.


24 posted on 10/28/2011 1:59:43 PM PDT by Morgana ("Since using your shampoo my hair has come alive!" ----Medusa)
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To: upsdriver

Sadly, that has been true for longer than many think. In the 80’s, even shortly before ELCA was formed by a union of the LCA, ALC, and AELC (1988), there was an active effort made to inculcate higher-critical exegetical principles into the minds of its (their) people. In other words, to undermine the trust of their people in the Bible. This was pursued very actively ... I have some of the materials from back then (mid- to late- 80’s). They seduced many people into thinking of the Bible along the same lines as higher-critical “scholarship.” (For the difference between higher and lower criticism, see any number of articles, books or, all else failing, the internet). Over time believers trickled out of ELCA, knowing that something was amiss, but not sure exactly what it was.

Obviously, in the last few years the leadership of ELCA decided that the percentage of problem members (i.e., real believers) to members of whom it approved had declined to a small enough number that they could openly declare their true allegiances, e.g., homosexuality, same-sex marriage, abortion, infanticide, euthanasia, divorce, open marriage, socialism/communism (all the “causes celebres” of the 60’s). What remains of the ELCA, as congregations leave by the hundreds, is the unbelieving but nostalgiac, who think that worship is “nice” and “comforting,” but otherwise really have no idea why that might be true. But, above all, they are thralls to every new progressive whim that comes down the path.

The ELCA is not Lutheran. It is not Christian. It is not American (at least not according to the way of thinking of the Declaration and Constitution). It is a feel-good society that gathers on Sunday to participate in warm, fuzzy worshipy activities. It is, in other words, shallow and meaningless. It will not survive.


25 posted on 10/28/2011 7:09:31 PM PDT by Belteshazzar (We are not justified by our works but by faith - De Jacob et vita beata 2 +Ambrose of Milan)
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To: upsdriver; lightman; SmithL; hinckley buzzard; Honorary Serb
The ELCA is now an unholy owned subsidiary of Satan, Inc.

And business, thankfully, is declining.

"In 2008 after adjusting for inflation, the value of mission support income had declined by half since the founding of this church in 1988," [ELCA Presiding Bishop Mark] Hanson wrote to the council. "From 2008 to 2011, estimated churchwide mission support dropped from $65.3 million to $48 million." The work of the design team is based on an estimated range of $45 million to $48 million in annual mission support income for the next three years, Hanson said.

26 posted on 10/29/2011 11:20:40 AM PDT by rhema ("Break the conventions; keep the commandments." -- G. K. Chesterton)
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To: rhema; upsdriver; lightman; SmithL; hinckley buzzard

This is a very sad article for me, because I know several of the signers of this “declaration”, and I know some of them well. The ELCA used to have a core of conservative Christian leaders who were respected even outside of the ELCA, plus a large number (perhaps a majority) of conservative laity. Those days are long gone.

Since being received into the Orthodox Church in 2008, my former ELCA parish has gone from bad to worse. It is now a haven for “gay couples”, some with children, and has at least one vocal transgendered member. It also has had muslim spokespeople in to practice “da’wa” (i.e., propaganda), in one case with youth without adult supervision. The pastor has also become a vocal supporter of the most radical muslims.

Of course, that parish, or almost any ELCA parish, can hardly expect to maintain its numbers by taking in moderate-to-conservative Christians. So it has to turn to gaysbians and flaming liberals to stay in “business”.

The parish seems to be a success. It has completed a major renovation, and has had a modest increase in members. However, worship attendance has declined to 29%, and no youth have been confirmed since 2007, when only one was.

Meanwhile, of members removed since 2008, NO ONE was counted as removed via transfer to another parish. People who are removed either die, or else fall into the category of “Other & Statistical Adjustment”. That included yours truly, who left to become what I already was in my heart, an Orthodox Christian! Some “statistical adjustment”!!!! I wonder whether any others of the “statistical adjustments” left to join other churches that would be equally embarrassing to report to the current ELCA establishment!

It is one thing to stay “in business” by catering to gaysbians and hipsters. But what about being faithful to our Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ? ELCA liberals are deluding themselves into thinking that they are operating “successful” parishes, while the entire liberal protestant community comes crashing down around them!

There are many real Christians who feel “stuck” in the ELCA. Some of them have Orthodox hearts, and belong in the Orthodox Church. In any event, anyone who feels that they are “stuck” and cannot move need to (by the help of God) get free from the shackles that Satan has bound them in, and leave the ELCA ASAP!!!! It is crucial for their salvation, and for the salvation of their loved ones!!!!


27 posted on 10/30/2011 2:21:08 PM PDT by Honorary Serb (Kosovo is Serbia! Free Srpska! Abolish ICTY!)
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To: aberaussie; Aeronaut; aliquando; AlternateViewpoint; AnalogReigns; Archie Bunker on steroids; ...


Lutheran (EL C S*A) Ping!

* as of August 19, AD 2009, a liberal protestant SECT, not part of the holy, catholic and apostolic CHURCH.

Wishing a Blessed Reformation Day!

28 posted on 10/30/2011 4:09:01 PM PDT by lightman (Adjutorium nostrum (+) in nomine Domini)
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To: rhema; SmithL; Honorary Serb
Rev. Michael E. Allwein; Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, ELCA; Gettysburg, PA

Worth noting: A former Roman Catholic Priest.

29 posted on 10/30/2011 4:13:58 PM PDT by lightman (Adjutorium nostrum (+) in nomine Domini)
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To: Belteshazzar
The ELCA is not Lutheran. It is not Christian. It is not American (at least not according to the way of thinking of the Declaration and Constitution). It is a feel-good society that gathers on Sunday to participate in warm, fuzzy worshipy activities. It is, in other words, shallow and meaningless. It will not survive.

E xtremely
L ibertine
C ult of
A ntinomianism

30 posted on 10/30/2011 4:20:00 PM PDT by lightman (Adjutorium nostrum (+) in nomine Domini)
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To: hinckley buzzard

I don’t recognize any of the names but I don’t really care. We do our own mission work and are self-sufficient. I would like for good measure for us to bail but the ELCA has made it very costly.


31 posted on 10/30/2011 4:24:27 PM PDT by Dengar01 (Dengar01 - "Heartless" since 1983!!!)
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To: Honorary Serb
There are some mega churches still in the ELCA like mine and we don't give the bums any money. They really have been getting crazy over it too which makes me happy since we are in the Chicago suburbs.

We publish our yearly budget and we don't contribute to the ELCA, and we don't take their blood money either. We have year round missions thanks to a great leadership team, great volunteers and the benefit of being in one of the wealthiest suburbs of Chicago. I'm not on staff anymore but from what I've been hearing from some on the Pastoral team is the ELCA is angry, but don't want to boot us for fear of losing our numbers!!!

It's funny because one of our Pastors is very close to my family and he is probably just as conservative as everyone else here. He absolutely despises the ELCA, but is tied to our church due to friends and family. That is the benefit of being self-sufficient. If however, things changed and money of ours flowed to Hanson's propaganda I will leave the church immediately.

32 posted on 10/30/2011 4:30:18 PM PDT by Dengar01 (Dengar01 - "Heartless" since 1983!!!)
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To: Dengar01; lightman

I heard that the Chicago Metro. Synod and the Iowa Synod, of the ELCA, have Don’t Ask; Don’t Tell rules for gays. Do you know of any other ELCA synods who have the same rule? If so, please list the synods.


33 posted on 10/30/2011 6:31:25 PM PDT by PhilCollins
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To: PhilCollins

ELCA policy as of August 2009 is that gays in “publicly accountable lifelong monogamus relationships” (PALMRs)are no longer barred from being Ordained.

The Ordination of one such person in San Fransisco was a feature article in the Lutheran magazine a couple of months ago.


34 posted on 10/30/2011 7:10:13 PM PDT by lightman (Adjutorium nostrum (+) in nomine Domini)
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To: lightman

I heard about that policy, on Aug. 22, 2009. Some synods have their own rules, determined by the bishops.


35 posted on 10/30/2011 7:59:03 PM PDT by PhilCollins
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To: manc

They never beat the Scouts.

That tells you something.

The Marines, Lutherans, Episcopalians, Anglicans all fell.

Only the Boy Scouts stood strong.

I also noticed that the last thing in government that ran well were the four military academies. They all have honor codes. Minute you leave that place it goes downhill from there.


36 posted on 10/30/2011 8:05:46 PM PDT by RinaseaofDs (Does beheading qualify as 'breaking my back', in the Jeffersonian sense of the expression?)
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To: PhilCollins

DADT had been very widespread before 2009.

Now the ELCA has gone from tacit “toleration” to open celebration.


37 posted on 10/30/2011 8:09:02 PM PDT by lightman (Adjutorium nostrum (+) in nomine Domini)
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To: lightman

The Devil will have to build an addition onto Hell to accommodate all those people on that list...


38 posted on 10/31/2011 5:57:41 AM PDT by Russ (Repeal the 17th amendment)
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To: Dengar01; lightman

Every conservative parish in the ELCA is just one pastoral transition away from becoming a radical, “gay”, feminazi, and dhimmi-infested parish!

Every conservative synod in the ELCA (if any still exist) is just one episcopal transition away from becoming a radical, “gay”, feminazi, and dhimmi-infested synod!

Get out now, before these transitions occur (which could be sooner than you think)!!!!

Perhaps ELCA mega-churches should make it easy by joining LCMC without leaving the ELCA. Then their corrupt “bishops” will be forced to kick the mega-churches out of the ELCA. But please learn as much about current ELCA and synod politics as you can before doing so—I’m a bit rusty for obvious reasons.


39 posted on 10/31/2011 6:17:09 AM PDT by Honorary Serb (Kosovo is Serbia! Free Srpska! Abolish ICTY!)
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To: lightman

Sad, but hardly unexpected. The conservative members and congregations are leaving, so the remainder is the bunch of liberal wackos that drove us out.

Happy All Saints’ Day!


40 posted on 11/01/2011 7:08:42 PM PDT by RebelBanker (May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.)
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To: lightman

Sad, but hardly unexpected. The conservative members and congregations are leaving, so the remainder is the bunch of liberal wackos that drove us out.

Happy All Saints’ Day!


41 posted on 11/01/2011 7:08:48 PM PDT by RebelBanker (May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.)
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