One of Syracuse's oldest Presbyterian churches votes to close next year

Syracuse.com ^ | 28 October 2011 | Elizabeth Doran

[Cronos]

One of the oldest Presbyterian churches in Syracuse — First Presbyterian Church United – this month decided it will close in April 2012.

The Near West Side church, founded in 1826 and located at 620 W. Genesee St. since 1904, will have its last service on Easter, April 8, 2012.

The church has been steadily losing members over the years and is financially strapped, said Nancy Wind, associate for congregational life at the church. There are about 100 church members; of those about 40 attend worship services, she said.

“We’ve been running a deficit budget for at least a decade ,” Wind said. “So instead of waiting for the inevitable, we decided to be responsible by deciding to close before we run out of all our endowment funds.”

The church held a special congregational meeting Oct. 2 where members voted 32 to 2 to request that the church be dissolved by the Presbytery of Cayuga Syracuse. A final celebration of the life of First Presbyterian Church United (with East Genesee Presbyterian Church) will be held May 4, 5 and 6, 2012.

...

At its peak in the 1960s, the church had close to 1,000 members. Ten years ago, that had dropped to about 300. “We lose at least 10 to 12 members every year,” Sullivan said.

..Rhebergen estimated there are five Presbyterian churches in the city. South Presbyterian and Onondaga Valley merged several years ago, and First Presbyterian merged with East Genesee Presbyterian. The presbytery will have to decide what to do with the church buildings.

[sr4402]

Does the PCA ordain women as ministers/pastors?

1 Timothy 3

"1 Here is a trustworthy saying: Whoever aspires to be an overseer desires a noble task. 2 Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full respect. 5 (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?) 6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. 7 He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil’s trap."

Note: The Male pronoun is used 9 times here. Also: Also from 1 Timothy 2:12

"do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man" (in the church).

So no. Ministers and Elders (Overseers) are Male in the PCA.

[Graybeard58]

I’m sure the costs of maintenance are ten times what they are for an ordinary church, maybe more.

Our utilities are about $2500 per month. Water, phones, electric, gas, garbage pick up.

While we have about 60 active members, the church could probably seat upwards of 300. Yes, that's sad.

We keep about $40,000 in a savings account and $8,000 to $10,000 in checking and we spend quite a bit on food baskets. We own a van but it's paid for and not used a whole lot. A couple of months ago, we voted for and installed, the cooling system in another nearby church, (Actually we paid for 1/2 of it, another church paid the rest). A couple of men from both churches did the labor.

We are fortunate and blessed by God because a lot of churches are struggling financially.

We even have to pay workers compensation taxes for the pastor and janitor workers and of course no one escapes the S.S. tax, we are not exempt on the Pastor's and janitor's salaries.

None of the above is our primary mission however. That would be to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

You can probably tell that I'm proud of our little church.

[Cronos]

then that is impressive. I wish you and your pastor God’s graces for a long, long time to come

[Cronos]

the more I see this collapse of our nations Church's due to acceptance of abortion and gay marriage, the more I think that this is the final stage of earlier decisions made

For gay marriage it starts with when we as people accepted easy divorces as a fact of life. Then we accepted "shacking up" to the extent that it is now considered abnormal if you DON'T.

With these two aspects and the almost acceptance of infidelity the value of marriage as not just an agreement but a Sacrament was gone.

People stopped realizing that marriage is a Sacrament with 3 involved -- woman, man and GOD.

So, marriage became a piece of paper, not even a contract (as it can be so easily broken).

And then the welfare state jumped in and marriage didn't even become "necessary" -- women with multiple partners and boys who never became men but became fathers who walked away proliferated

With this degeneration of heterosexual "marriage", why not accept a perversion like "gay marriage"?

[Cronos]

Is it purely demographics?

[Cronos]

you're confusing decent behavior and manners in public with speech restriction

you are correct.

[Cronos]

you know if you think of things purely from a secular point of view, it seems reasonable to have pastoresses, BUT, from a scientific point of view one can see the empirical evidence that pastoresses lead to gay married pastors -- ECUSA, PCUSA, ELCA etc as examples. It's a slippery slope down

And that's even before we need to describe the FINAL argument, scripture

[RnMomof7]

as the "gay marriage is ok" spreads among the Presbyterians, we can expect more of this

I agree as the saved leave an apostate church ...

PCUSA is like Rome in that it owns all the churches and the retirement funds of the pastors.. most of these congregations can not just withdraw and become OP or PCA

A local PCUSA actually raised the funds to buy their way out.. but most congregations just can not do that ...

So the elect will filter out to other congregations.. ..This is good news for the church of Jesus Christ not so much for PCUSA

[RnMomof7]

Does the PCA ordain women as ministers/pastors?

No and it does not ordain women as elders nor allow women to teach men..

[RnMomof7]

Agreed..the one near me is basically universalist ...

[fwdude]

No and it does not ordain women as elders nor allow women to teach men.

Great to hear. But my next question is why don't these conflicted, supposedly conservative congregants and pastors in the PC-USA simply affiliate with the PCA? Is the difference really that vast? Or are these pastors really not that conservative?

[fwdude]

Not at the Presbyterian PCA churches. PC-USA has gone the way of the World.

Getting back to the subject of the article, I can't find anywhere in the piece the affiliation of the First Presbyterian Church United in Syracuse. It sounds like it just might be a more conservative church, from the ages of the congregants. Just wondering.

[keeper53]

This must be very sad for you. I hope you find another like-minded church. (I’m in central NY also, and know it’s a very dark area, in many ways)
Is your pastor going to retire?
May God bless you and your fellowship.

(keeper53)

[sr4402]

I can't find anywhere in the piece the affiliation of the First Presbyterian Church United in Syracuse.

Note their website (and .pcusa.)

http://www.firstpressyracuse.pcusa.cc/

[fwdude]

Thanks. Missed that.

[ReformationFan]

I think the differences are probably too vast for a PCUSA congregation to go directly to a PCA member congregation nowadays. The PCUSA has required female elders and deacons for so long that many of these congregations that chose to leave have gone to the EPC instead. Also, theological liberalism on many issues, not just sexuality and marriage, would probably prevent many of these PCUSA congregations from fitting into the PCA.