Skip to comments.Are dinosaurs fossils really that old? [vanity]
Posted on 10/28/2011 6:39:41 AM PDT by Ancient Drive
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You don’t get it do you. Man says it is inspired by God,man wrote the bible, that doesn’t make it so. You can quote bible passages all day long but it is still what a man said and wrote down.
Mainstream science and media have been completely convinced of long ages for the earth and universe ever since Charles Lyell’s geologic research writings from about 1820 iirc.
However true science has found many many problems with both long ages and evolution esp. any with a biblical perspective [my viewpoint too].
Here are several links from my homepage - imho the best is creationscience.com a complete online science research book that combines the majority of jigsaw pieces from science into what Dr. Walt Brown PhD from M.I.T. - the book presents his hydroplate theory in section II. Section I presents a plethora of stuff that we do know about evolution and science. Section III is in-depth questions and answers. I bought the 8th edition hardback version brand new for about $30. Dr. Brown presents most of it in everyday language but also provides footnotes and bibliography showing the vast amount of research he has been doing for well over 50 years.
101 Evidences for a Young Age of the Earth...And the Universe
Center for Scientific Creation - In the Beginning: Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood
Dinosaur Shocker - 68 million year old T Rex w/ red blood cells
New Chromosome Research Undermines Human-Chimp Similarity Claims
Science in the Bible
Testimonies of Scientists Who Believe the Bible
While I would never say something like that to someone of a different faith than me, I’m sorry that for you they are sad, just the opposite for me though. Thanks
No animals were created untill the length of days was set.
Who cares about your man-made ‘moral (small ‘m’) code’?
The ‘morals’ today say that it is fine a for men to have sex together, that it is ok to kill and unborn child and that it is ok to lie, ad nauseum.
Without a fixed, set-in stone Moral code, you are at the mercy of man, not a good place to be, ask the Germans in WW2, or any unborn abortion victim.
I disagree. I believe in science. Math, 2 + 2 = 4. FACT.
The trouble is in the definition of “science”. Too much science is “theory”. Science is constantly being proved wrong. Then scientists just say “never mind” and move on to the NEW theory as being fact. All theories should be investigated and studied, but to claim them as fact is deceitful. Man made global warming is the perfect example. Man made CO2 as a cause is absolutely disproved by actual measurements in ice cores, yet it is still pushed by scientists as fact.
The planet Orpheus crashed into the earth, knocked off a big chunk, which formed our moon. I know this is true because scientists on the National Geographic Chanel told me so. Only one problem, there is no proof or evidence that there ever was a planet Orpheus or any other planet hitting the earth. IT IS A THEORY, not science.
You don't have to, but it doesn't make you correct.
If they are incompatible then they are in opposition. Science is an attempt to understand the world around us. We assign confidence levels to that understanding. You would be hard pressed to find a scientist that believes it impossible to disprove what may be considered “FACT” with current understanding. It is an evolving process where by we may expand our understanding by building on lessons learned.
You will do more harm than good by spewing nonsense about the literal meaning of the Bible. What will that accomplish other than your own personal gratification and comfort? How much do you harm the image of Christian’s knowing full well most people will consider this line of thinking a form madness. Focus on winning more for the team rather than your personal crusade to bring others to believe as you do.
The early church believed the earth was flat? Got any evidence for that claim?
Genesis was written by Moses. Is there a signed copy somewhere, probably not, yet he is ascribed to be the author.
Dinos are not addressed by name, yet there are a couple descriptions, in the OT, of animals that could be. In any case, could it have been so? Yes.
Did God pick up pen and paper to write the Bible, obviously not. But it was inspired by Him.
God is obviously God of all that is. That was as illy question.
Did God pick up pen and paper to write the Bible, obviously not. But it was inspired by Him.
So says the man that wrote it.
A small paperback book would do much to enlighten you:
More than a Carpenter
by Josh McDowell
For Jesus to be anything other than as He presented Himself would make him a lunatic.
That is, if the way people believe He presented Himself, is correct.
The Gospels refers to Matthew, Mark, Luke & John. The 1st 4 books of the New Testament. Any court of law that applies justice in any moral ethical sense will always require 2 witnesses minimum. Often times 3.
The Bible provides 4 eyewitness accounts of Jesus Christ’s life and the book I told you about [More Than a Carpenter] goes into great detail to explain why you can trust these same 4 witnesses. If any were lying there never would have been a new following born out of Israel. Between the Jews and the Romans they did everything in their power to stop it.
Also a study was done recently that concluded there was so much information matched within each account to create them as outright fraud would require that each book would have to have been written last while plagiarizing the other three.
How did He present Himself other than saying He was the son of God? Did He actually write any of the books Himself?
That is dependent on a number of factors including hydrology and the mineral content of percolating water, pH, and the nature of the sediments the bones are buried in.
Except where there is a (non-government funded) profit to be made. Then we work with what works and don't with what doesn't. Anything used solely for the formulation of political policy is suspect, as ulterior motives abound.
No, but sayings that were known to be from Jesus can be found in red letter Bibles. The NT red letter verses represent quotes attributed to Him.
Jesus only account of writing was in the sand when a woman was accused of adultery. Now if someone is caught in the act then there should be two people presented for stoning as required by Jewish laws.
Anyway while He wrote in the sand the accusers dropped their rocks and left eventually leaving only Jesus and the woman.
He asks her “Woman where are your accusers?”
“Gone.” she replies.
Then Jesus replied “Go and sin no more”
- as I recall anyway
Here’s a link with much more detail.
Sorry for confusion in my post #170.
There are 2 NT accounts of an adulterous woman.
In one the crowd want to stone her - the other follows Numbers 5:11-31 [OT - test for an unfaithful wife] where a husband suspects adultery.
The Test for an Unfaithful Wife
11 Then the LORD said to Moses, 12 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him 13 by sleeping with another man, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), 14 and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— 15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder offering to draw attention to guilt. 16 “ ‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the LORD. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the LORD, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has slept with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have defiled yourself by sleeping with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse of the oath—”may the LORD cause your people to curse and denounce you when he causes your thigh to waste away and your abdomen to swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells and your thigh wastes away. “ “ ‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.” 23 “ ‘The priest is to write these curses on a scroll and then wash them off into the bitter water. 24 He shall have the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and this water will enter her and cause bitter suffering. 25 The priest is to take from her hands the grain offering for jealousy, wave it before the LORD and bring it to the altar. 26 The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorial offering and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. 27 If she has defiled herself and been unfaithful to her husband, then when she is made to drink the water that brings a curse, it will go into her and cause bitter suffering; her abdomen will swell and her thigh waste away, and she will become accursed among her people. 28 If, however, the woman has not defiled herself and is free from impurity, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children. 29 “ ‘This, then, is the law of jealousy when a woman goes astray and defiles herself while married to her husband, 30 or when feelings of jealousy come over a man because he suspects his wife. The priest is to have her stand before the LORD and is to apply this entire law to her. 31 The husband will be innocent of any wrongdoing, but the woman will bear the consequences of her sin.’ “
So what did people say He said, that would make Him a lunatic if they weren’t true?
I cant remember the sight,possibly something like Ripleys believe it or not,but I remember seeing examples of bodies being disentered that were only 50 years in the ground,totally fossilized.I think they were in some area where the water level could enter the caskets and was highly mineralized.
Anyway,If tests were done,the minerals would show ages of millions of years but the tombstones proved otherwise.
The claim the He and the Father are one.
The Pharisees and Sauducees decided this was Jesus death sentence for blasphemy - claiming to be God. Each group was the self-appointed experts on the Jewish Mosaic laws, but they were split ino 2 factions bc Sauducees did not believe in eternal life after death while the Pharisees did.
There ware also some blind radiometric age dating tests done from Mt St. Helens 1980 eruption that indicated millions of years.
Part of the reason the did those tests was due to the fact that MSH resembled the sedimentary layering found throughout the world.
google polystrate fossils for more age-dating problems not to mention the wolemi pine tree.
Ok, that’s not my contention so I’m not sure why you directed that to me.
So you believe that if He had said that, and it wasn’t true, he would be a lunatic? I don’t. Besides it was recorded by someone else that He said it, years after the fact, wasn’t it? That person could have been mistaken, or prone to embellishment in his writings.
Guess you need to read the book I referenced, course you are so skeptical I’m not sure how much more it will take to convince you. Took me 5 years of Bible study and I was plenty skeptical too. Also to get into Heaven requires complete spiritual perfection therefore Romans 3:23 indicates none of us are worthy, but just like Abram received imputed righteousness for his belief in a future Saviour you can too [see Romans 10:10].
For one I’ll pray for you b/c conversion is a miraculous work of His Holy Spirit.
For two prophecies. Approx 600 unique prophecies that are nowadays referred to as lamb and lion b/c in Jesus day he only fulfilled about 1/3 of them - the sacrificial lamb prophecies. When he returns to set up His Kingdom will be the completion of the lion prophecies. This is also why the majority of the Jewish people continue to reject Him as their Messiah.
Read Psalm 22 describing the crucifixion written at least 800 years before Christ and also before there were any ancient civilizations practiced crucifixion. Normally they would break the legs to hasten or ensure death but in Jesus case they thrust a spear in his side and blood mixed with water flowed heavily indicating a burst heart.
1My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from saving me, so far from the words of my groaning? 2 O my God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer, by night, and am not silent. 3 Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One; you are the praise of Israel. 4 In you our fathers put their trust; they trusted and you delivered them. 5 They cried to you and were saved; in you they trusted and were not disappointed. 6 But I am a worm and not a man, scorned by men and despised by the people. 7 All who see me mock me; they hurl insults, shaking their heads: 8 “He trusts in the LORD; let the LORD rescue him. Let him deliver him, since he delights in him.” 9 Yet you brought me out of the womb; you made me trust in you even at my mother’s breast. 10 From birth I was cast upon you; from my mother’s womb you have been my God. 11 Do not be far from me, for trouble is near and there is no one to help. 12 Many bulls surround me; strong bulls of Bashan encircle me. 13 Roaring lions tearing their prey open their mouths wide against me. 14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint. My heart has turned to wax; it has melted away within me. 15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd, and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth; you lay me in the dust of death. 16 Dogs have surrounded me; a band of evil men has encircled me, they have pierced my hands and my feet. 17 I can count all my bones; people stare and gloat over me. 18 They divide my garments among them and cast lots for my clothing. 19 But you, O LORD, be not far off; O my Strength, come quickly to help me. 20 Deliver my life from the sword, my precious life from the power of the dogs. 21 Rescue me from the mouth of the lions; save me from the horns of the wild oxen. 22 I will declare your name to my brothers; in the congregation I will praise you. 23 You who fear the LORD, praise him! All you descendants of Jacob, honor him! Revere him, all you descendants of Israel! 24 For he has not despised or disdained the suffering of the afflicted one; he has not hidden his face from him but has listened to his cry for help. 25 From you comes the theme of my praise in the great assembly; before those who fear you will I fulfill my vows. 26 The poor will eat and be satisfied; they who seek the LORD will praise him— may your hearts live forever! 27 All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD, and all the families of the nations will bow down before him, 28 for dominion belongs to the LORD and he rules over the nations. 29 All the rich of the earth will feast and worship; all who go down to the dust will kneel before him— those who cannot keep themselves alive. 30 Posterity will serve him; future generations will be told about the Lord. 31 They will proclaim his righteousness to a people yet unborn— for he has done it.
Bit of a stretch to say the dinosaurs were around in Jesus day...
But see Job 40 beginning in v 15.
“Look at the behemoth, which I made along with you and which feeds on grass like an ox. 16 What strength he has in his loins, what power in the muscles of his belly! 17 His tail sways like a cedar; the sinews of his thighs are close-knit. 18 His bones are tubes of bronze, his limbs like rods of iron.
I’m not skeptical, I just do not believe that Jesus was anything more than a very gifted and good man. Why do you want to convince me of something? What do you want to convince me of?
It’s great that you have such a strong faith. I do too, it’s just different than yours. I certainly wouldn’t want to try and change your faith, as I believe our faith is provided to us by God, not by a book or a man.
There are several different ways to 'date' a rock layer, the most common is relative age the attribution of a rock layer to a time period based on its placement relative to the rocks around it. The next, dealing with fossil content is a biostratigraphic age, with certain assemblages of remains being ascribed to a certain time period, and then the numbers ("absolute age") come from interpretation of isotopic dating of minerals in igneous and or metamorphic rocks (in the latter case, identifying their last period of high temperature/pressure deformation) which are sandwiched in, buried under, intruded into, or provide the materials for sedimentary rock in which fossils are found. Inferences are made about the age of the sediments according to their stratigraphic relationships to the rocks for which an absolute age has been acceptably established.
The numbers can be suspect for sediments, as a given rock formation is generally assumed to have the same age over its lateral extent when the environment in which it formed may have shifted geographically over time, they are usually given as a range of dates. There are few markers which are global in extent (one such is the K-T Boundary--the sediment from the impact event which has been credited by some with the demise of the dinosaurs), so there are places where the record doesn't completely flange up, or absolute ages may be in dispute, even within the framework of isotopic dating.
Regardless of the numbers which have been attached, this makes a good working model to designate relative ages of strata and sort things out.
Whether the numbers are absolutely correct depends on measurement, sampling, and on the constancy of physical constants.
If the universe is 'billions' of years old, we don't have enough data on physical constants to determine how constant they really are over time.
Anyway, in our efforts to understand that which surrounds us, we do come up with working models, with apparent rules, which are subject to constant revision because no matter how much we know, for every answer, we commonly end up with more questions.
The fundamental assumption in this modeling is that the same forces which are working now work in the the same way now as they did then, and, of course that they worked at all.
Again, we assume this to be the case, because it makes for a nice, tidy working model.
Yet at the same time, if we are ever to travel among the stars, we will have to find ways to exceed the parameters we have set in our interpretation of nature, and we are actively seeking ways to do so, looking for the faster than light particle, the wormhole to transit normal space, and ways to harness or negate the effects of gravity, for a few.
So despite placing certain rules on the physical universe, we seek to transcend those rules ourselves. So I don't have any trouble with an all-knowing and all-powerful God who can transcend the rules we have imposed through observation of how things seem to work at the moment--or even over the past few hundreds of years.
For now we see as through a glass, darkly...
Are you sure that wasn’t written by a Palinbot???LOL
Funny, in the history books, I don’t recall the Romans interacting with the T-Rex..
The history books lie!
Ah, so they are the ancestors of werewolves? Weredinos? :-P
When you're, with the Flintstones:-)
Have a yabba, dabba, doo time
A dabba doo time
We'll have a gay, old time!
There is an interesting study that the Koran is actually a Nestorian/Assyrian Christian text originally written in Syriac/Aramaic and not in Arabic.
one translation of tail is more the sex organ and not “thighs” but “stones”....
What makes you think God’s version of 6 days and your version are the same?
Jesus as the "good man" -- but then why does He tell the Samaritan woman that food is not meant for the dogs (Samaritans)? Or the violence in the temple? Or, for that matter, why crucify a "good man"?
Bluntly also, the part of rejecting the resurrection from the dead of Jesus Christ would mean rejecting the Epistles of St. Paul and indeed the Earliest Christians all hailed Christ as resurrected.
i don't see how one can hail Jesus as just the good man and reject the rest of things around Him
duuh. of course not — Star Wars was a documentary.. ;)
Who did the children of Adam & Eve marry?
They invented fangs.