Is Lucifer the god of the Mormon Temple? [The OTHER World Series]

Saints Alive ^ | July 12, 2010 | Ed Decker

[Colofornian]

In the Endowment, Lucifer is portrayed as having a "white and delightsome" body of flesh and bone. He even touches Eve's hand with his own in a little pat as he hands her the forbidden fruit.

Yet Mormon doctrine teaches that Lucifer was denied a flesh and bone body of any color; and indeed that the way to tell any evil spirit is that such spirits cannot really touch you physically (D&C 129, especially v.8). Only those faithful in the pre-existent state will get tangible, white bodies according to LDS teaching. If anything, Lucifer should be portrayed as a black man!

Also, later in the Endowment, Peter the apostle is represented as coming down from Elohim in a body of flesh and bone. He shakes hands with Lucifer and then gives the secret grip to identify himself to Adam as one having authority. This is also impossible, since according to LDS teaching, a righteous spirit would never attempt to shake hands (D&C 129:5-6) and Peter would not have received a body of flesh for another 4,000 years!

In the "Holy Temple," of all places, shouldn't correct LDS theology be presented?

Why do Temple Mormons, in the Endowment, continue to wear the green fig-leaf apron which Lucifer inspired and God rejected?

In the garden sequence of the Temple Ceremony, the participants listen to Lucifer teach Mormon doctrine as he says there is no other way to gain knowledge than to disobey Father and eat the fruit.

Adam learns that the Apron Lucifer wears symbolizes Satan's power and Priesthoods. The Participants all place these aprons on as Lucifer directs Adam and Eve to put them on. The Aprons are worn throughout the entire Endowment, and this emblem of Lucifer covers both the sacred garment and the robes of the LDS "Holy Priesthood." Why would anyone wear an Apron that is the emblem of Satanic power and priesthoods?

Later in the Ceremony, the initiates raise their arms and chant "Pay Lay Ale" three times. They are told these were the exact syllables Adam prayed. The Hebrew translation of these words can either be "Marvelous False god" or "Marvelous True God.”

When Adam prayed, he believed what Lucifer taught and wore the Apron Lucifer said to wear. It's no wonder Lucifer-the "god of the World"-answered! (Mormons often say there are many gods, but the only one they worship is the god of this world!)

If you are still not sure if they prayed to the false god or the True God, did you know that the chant has been changed? Until just before 1930, they chanted "Pale hale hale" or Pale ale ale." What a coincidence! The direct Hebrew translation of "Pele Heylel" is "Marvelous Lucifer."

Why did the LDS leaders remove this chant in April, 1990, after this Luciferian connection was revealed by former Mormons? Wasn’t the Temple Ceremony given as the pure and perfect revelation of God for the Saints? Did God change his mind after this band other pagan parts of the ritual were made public?

Where is the Biblical or historical support for wearing the Mormon temple underwear? What do the secret markings on them mean? Why does it no longer have power when the secret Masonic marking are cut out? Isn't this more the working of an occultic Talisman? Where are the references for this Secret Underwear in the Standard Works?

"Likewise, thou son of man, set thy face against the daughters of thy people, which prophesy out of their own heart and prophesy thou against them. And say, Thus saith the LORD God; Woe to the women that sew pillows to armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you? And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?" óEzek.13:17-19.

Early Mormon prophets established full-length secret "garments." They were “told by God" to wear them as "Heî (God) designed them. Where is the Revelation giving the authority to shorten them as they are today? Is the LDS God a slave to fashion? "And they lay themselves down upon clothes laid to every pledge by every altar, and they drink the wine of the condemned in the house of their god." Amos 2:8.

In the Temple ceremony, Elohim curses Lucifer to crawl on his belly and eat dust forever, and to have his head crushed. Lucifer arrogantly defies Elohim to his face, goes about his business and overcomes his curse, since he never changes his conduct or bodily function. What kind of God is Elohim, anyway? Is his son, Lucifer, that much stronger than he?

"Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him." Matt.4:10-11.

After Adam is cast out of the Garden, he builds and altar, lifts his arms above his head and calls upon God three times saying, "Oh God, hear the words of my mouth." Yet Lucifer answers and says, "I hear you, what is it you want?" Adam asks, "Who are you?” and Lucifer replies "I am the God of this world." How can this be? Is Lucifer the Mormon God? It sure seems so.

Why do couples have “Powers and principalities” sealed upon them in the Temple Marriage ceremony when the bible clearly defines them as the powers of darkness?

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Eph 6:12-13 KJV

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Rom 8:38-39 KJV

Excerpt From The Sealing of Marriages ritual: LDS Temple

Officiator: Brother ______, [naming groom] and Sister ______, [naming bride] please join hands in the Patriarchal Grip or Sure Sign of the Nail.

[Ed: See: http://www.saintsalive.com/resourcelibrary/mormonism/the-sure-sign-of-the-nail-and-the-god-of-the-lds-temple]

Marriage Couple: Joins hands in the "Patriarchal Grip, or Sure Sign of the Nail." This token is given by clasping the right hands, interlocking the little fingers and placing the tip of the forefinger upon the center of the wrist. No clothing should interfere with the contact of the forefinger upon the wrist.

Officiator: Brother ______, do you take Sister ______ by the right hand and receive her unto yourself to be your lawful and wedded wife for time and all eternity, with a covenant and promise that you will observe and keep all the laws, rites, and ordinances pertaining to this Holy Order of Matrimony in the New and Everlasting Covenant, and this you do in the presence of God, angels, and these witnesses of your own free will and choice?

Groom: Yes.

Officiator: Sister ______ do you take brother ______ by the right hand and give yourself to him to be his lawful and wedded wife, and for him to be your lawful and wedded husband, for time and all eternity, with a covenant and promise that you will observe and keep all the laws, rites and ordinances pertaining to this Holy Order of Matrimony in the New and Everlasting Covenant, and this you do in the presence of God, angels, and these witnesses of your own free will and choice?

Bride: Yes.

Officiator: By virtue of the Holy Priesthood and the authority vested in me, I pronounce you ______, and ______, legally and lawfully husband and wife for time and all eternity, and I seal upon you the blessings of the holy resurrection with power to come forth in the morning of the first resurrection clothed in glory, immortality and eternal lives, and I seal upon you the blessings of kingdoms, thrones, principalities, powers, dominions and exaltations, with all the blessings of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and say unto you: be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth that you may have joy and rejoicing in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

All these blessings, together with all the blessings appertaining unto the New and Everlasting Covenant, I seal upon you by virtue of the Holy Priesthood, through your faithfulness, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, Amen.

The Priesthood given in the temple is tied to the emblems of Lucifer's power and priesthoods and the blessing is the sealing of those same powers and principalities.. of the rulers of darkness. Not my idea of a happy start to any marriage.

[Colofornian]

From the article: In the garden sequence of the Temple Ceremony, the participants listen to Lucifer teach Mormon doctrine as he says there is no other way to gain knowledge than to disobey Father and eat the fruit.

From the article: Adam learns that the Apron Lucifer wears symbolizes Satan's power and Priesthoods. The Participants all place these aprons on as Lucifer directs Adam and Eve to put them on. The Aprons are worn throughout the entire Endowment, and this emblem of Lucifer covers both the sacred garment and the robes of the LDS "Holy Priesthood." Why would anyone wear an Apron that is the emblem of Satanic power and priesthoods?

From the article: When Adam prayed, he believed what Lucifer taught an d wore the Apron Lucifer said to wear. It's no wonder Lucifer-the "god of the World"-answered! (Mormons often say there are many gods, but the only one they worship is the god of this world!) If you are still not sure if they prayed to the false god or the True God, did you know that the chant has been changed? Until just before 1930, they chanted "Pale hale hale" or Pale ale ale." What a coincidence! The direct Hebrew translation of "Pele Heylel" is "Marvelous Lucifer." Why did the LDS leaders remove this chant in April, 1990, after this Luciferian connection was revealed by former Mormons?

From the article: After Adam is cast out of the Garden, he builds and altar, lifts his arms above his head and calls upon God three times saying, "Oh God, hear the words of my mouth." Yet Lucifer answers and says, "I hear you, what is it you want?" Adam asks, "Who are you?” and Lucifer replies "I am the God of this world." How can this be? Is Lucifer the Mormon God? It sure seems so.

[Lazamataz]

Organized religions confound me, but the concept of bashing one — with the sole exception of the demonstrably evil Islam — confounds me more. Don’t know why you’d post such flamebait.

[noprogs]

OH GAWD!

This is going to be worse than the purgatory debate.

(putting popcorn in microwave....)

[dragonblustar]

Organized religions confound me, but the concept of bashing one — with the sole exception of the demonstrably evil Islam —

Islam doesn't claim to be Christian.

[dragonblustar]

Why is it when ever you post actual documents from Mormons or news articles, its considered bashing them?

I guess this is fitting...

“”During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.” — George Orwell”

[TFMcGuire]

I agree that the Mormon religion is luciferian in character as its philosophical precursor Freemasonry is.

In Mormonism, God and Lucifer are one.

The god of Mormonism in an incubus.

[Tennessee Nana]

Is Lucifer the god of the Mormon Temple?
_______________________________________________

Apparantly so...

Its sure not The LORD Jesus Christ...

[guitarplayer1953]

"What kind of God is Elohim, anyway? Is his son, Lucifer, that much stronger than he?"

Lucifer is not the son of God he is a created angel the only son God has is JESUS!

[skyman]

Gee I wonder? Do you think that it might be considered bashing when it comes from anti-Mormon websites or other anti-Mormon material from members of FR who are completey anti-Mormon and the news articles that in any way, shape or form could possibly be considered negative in any possible way is posted by the same group on WF? Do you think that might have something do to with it?

“Why is it when ever you post actual documents from Mormons or news articles, its considered bashing them?”

[Ronin]

I’m with you, Laz.

This is silly.

[Colofornian]

From the article: "What kind of God is Elohim, anyway? Is his son, Lucifer, that much stronger than he?"

Lucifer is not the son of God he is a created angel the only son God has is JESUS! [Guitarplayer1953)

According to Mormon "apostle" Bruce McConkie, whose 1978 version of his book Mormon Doctrine, was republished by the Mormon church's publishing house:

Devil: “The devil (literally meaning slanderer) is a spirit son of God who was born in the morning of pre-existence. (D&C 76:25-26).” (Mormon Doctrine, p. 117)

Therefore, the Mormon church gives Lucifer's "jumpstart" in heaven or Kolob or whereever they say Heavenly Father lives...equal billing to Jesus...except that Jesus was spirit born just ahead of Lucifer!

[Rembrandt]

Damning information comes out about Rick Perry. Long forgotten information comes out yesterday about Herman Cain. Today, Colofornian posts an article inviting criticism of Mormonism and, by inference, Mitt Romney.

All of these are coincidences, I’m sure. And, I’m sure that Colofornian is a true blue Conservative. s/ off, koff, hack, gag

Don’t like it Colofornian? See my tagline.

[McBuff]

LLLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEETTTTT’s GET READY TO RRRRRRRRRRUUUUUUUUUMMMMMMMMMMBBBBBBBBBLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

[guitarplayer1953]

They also say he and Jesus are brothers. This total blasphemy.

[JoenTX]

Christianity tells us that Lucifer was one of God’s preferred Angels. A chief lieutenant of big “G”, all knowing, all seeing, all beneficial “God.”

Oops, I guess. Must we then assume that God is not all knowing and perfect after all?

No. The truth lays somewhere way vaguely in between.

Satan rebelled against God in the classic Milton sense, because, he felt God too vengeful and hateful to his creatures. God had created them imperfect, they acted in an imperfect manner, and then God punished them for acting in the imperfect manner in which he himself had created them. Satan/Lucifer, found extreme issue with this. He found God needlessly vengeful and cruel and thus he spoke up, found a cast of fellow angels who agreed, and tried to take on God for his actions. God, being that same “all knowing, all seeing” God did not see this coming and acted out in vengeance against Lucifer and his crew for questioning his ways.

It’s all fairy tale, but, the allegory is set and classic. And not unlike the classic joke about those who defecate on you are not always your enemy, nor those who take effort to dig you out are your friends......

[Colofornian]

Don’t defend RINOs elsewhere, Romneybot...not the forum to do it.

[guitarplayer1953]

Satan was a created angel of worship he was and is not all see all knowing if he was the he would be God.

[guitarplayer1953]

If you read in Revelations it says that Jesus was and is the lamb that was slain before the foundation of the world. So a way of salvation was already in place satan was full of pride.

[Elsie]

Don’t know why you’d post such flamebait.

To draw you out of your comfort zone...

...on Halloween!

---

 

Deconstructing Linus: Portrait of a True Believing Pumpkinist as a Young Man

What does the Great Pumpkin offer Linus? Why does Linus spend every Halloween in the pumpkin patch, waiting for the Great Pumpkin to appear? Is it about the toys?

"Each year on Halloween night, the Great Pumpkin rises out of the pumpkin patch that he thinks is the most sincere and flies through the air with his pack of toys for all the good little children in the world."

No. This is about sincerity, a subjective standard by any definition.

I wonder if Linus blames himself every year for not picking the most sincere pumpkin patch for his vigil?

I wonder if other Great Pumpkinists castigate Linus by asserting if he were more in tune with the Spirit of the Great Pumpkin, if he were more prayerful, if he read the Holy Writ of the Great Pumpkin with a greater sincerity, that he could indeed rise to the challenge and, via the Spirit, be lead to choose the most sincere pumpkin patch?

I wonder how many years Linus will feel guilty for this failure and blame himself for receiving no answer no matter how sincere he believes himself to be?

I wonder if Linus ever gets frustrated because there is no objective way to measure sincerity? And if he realizes there is no objective standard for such a thing, I wonder if it ever creeps into his mind that his annual mission is nothing more than mindless busywork?

I wonder, does Linus ever has doubts?

For the time being, however, Linus will put aside his doubts and, perhaps as a means of proving his sincerity, begins to proselyte among his friends for converts. Most shrug him off. But Sally, who has a crush on him, believes Linus and agrees to spend Halloween in Linus’ Pumpkin Patch.

Linus then explains that by using positive language and positive thinking, they may be able to attract the Great Pumpkin to their Patch. He also cautions Sally that negative language and negative thinking will cause the Great Pumpkin to pass them by.

There is no room for doubt when one is a Great Pumpkinist. One should never say if the Great Pumpkin comes but always when the Great Pumpkin comes. "One little slip like that, can cause the Great Pumpkin to pass you by!" It’s hard to imagine a benevolent icon such as the Great Pumpkin punishing TBPs (True Believing Pumkinists) for such a minor infraction, but there you have it.

Sally: The Birth of an Ex-Pumpkinist

Because Sally loves her “sweet baboo” Linus, she sets aside her own Halloween plans of trick-or-treating and a Halloween party in order to spend the evening in the Pumpkin Patch. She converts to Great Pumpkinism because she loves Linus. She respects his opinion. And she wants to make him happy and be supportive. And besides, if it’s really true, WOW! Wouldn’t that be fantastic?

But in the end, the only Being that shows up in the Pumpkin Patch is Snoopy. Linus, believing Snoopy to be the Great Pumpkin, swoons into an ecstatic faint, happy in the knowledge that he has finally deciphered the Great Pumpkin’s standard for sincerity. But, alas, it is a misplaced hope, and when Linus regains consciousness, there is not only no Great Pumpkin there to reward him, there is one upset little girl.

"I was robbed! I spent the whole night waiting for the Great Pumpkin when I could have been out for tricks or treats! Halloween is over and I missed it! You blockhead! You kept me up all night waiting for the Great Pumpkin and all that came was a beagle!"

"I didn't get a chance to go out for tricks or treats! And it was all your fault! I'll sue! What a fool I was. And I could have had candy apples and gum! And cookies and money and all sorts of things! But no, I had to listen to you! You blockhead. What a fool I was. Trick or treats come only once a year. And I missed it by sitting in a pumpkin patch with a blockhead. You owe me restitution!"

Luckily for Sally, she only missed one Halloween. And though she is demanding restitution, because her participation was voluntary, she will never receive said restitution. She’ll simply have to accept the experience as one of life’s absurdities and move on.

However, one can hope that this experience has made Sally a more skeptical person, so that the next time she is presented with such fantastic claims, she’ll perhaps be inclined to do her research before committing any time, money or emotion.

After all, fantastic claims should be supported by fantastic evidence, right?

The question now becomes, has this experience made Linus a skeptic? After yet again not having his Pumpkin Patch recognized as sincere and after having endangered his friendship with Sally, will he continue to believe?

In spite of a complete and utter lack of evidence pointing to the existence of the Great Pumpkin, and a complete and utter lack of the Great Pumpkin’s Promise ever having been fulfilled, Linus is a True Believing Pumpkinist to the core. To even admit the possibility that he may be wrong would be to negate all those years of hard work and sincere belief. Linus simply cannot turn his back on his belief.

So if Linus doesn't become an ex-Pumpkinist, what is his strategy? Well, he’s going to keep on trying, isn't he?

"What do you mean, 'stupid'? Just wait until next year. I'll find a pumpkin patch, and I'll sit in that pumpkin patch and it'll be a sincere pumpkin patch, and the Great Pumpkin will come! Just you wait and see! I'll sit in that pumpkin patch, and I'll see the Great Pumpkin. Just wait until next year!"

[Elsie]

This is silly.

And yet...

...you are here.

[Elsie]

God had created them imperfect,

Golly!

Who knew!!

[Hammerhead]

The creepiest, deadest places I’ve ever been in have been the Mormon and church north of the beltway in DC and the Masonic temple in Alex. VA

the deadness was quite unsettling...something very evil about those two places.

[Colofornian]

debate.

Most Mormons don't debate when you post stuff from the "inside-out" about themselves...I mean, what are they going to do? Toss their leaders under the bus & publicly contend vs. them?

Hardly.

That means they have to attack either...
...the poster
...the tone of the poster...
...or just plain deflect, obfuscate & play the game of "Look over there!" (change the thread topic...hijack it)

It all then becomes context 'cause they rarely want to address content issues.

[Colofornian]

The creepiest, deadest places I’ve ever been in have been the Mormon and church north of the beltway in DC and the Masonic temple in Alex. VA the deadness was quite unsettling...something very evil about those two places.

Now that's a testimony!

[mas cerveza por favor]

No, Satan is not the defender of creation against God. Anyone who believes the “father of lies” is a fool. Rather, Satan is the vengeful and cruel (though ultimately failed) despoiler of creation and of mankind in particular. Only those who follow the devil will join in his just punishment. The “prince of this world” may be strong, but we have an even stronger defender from God in the person of His Son, Jesus Christ.

The likely reason for the “angel of light’s” rebellion was that he could not stand to be ranked below the God-man Jesus, and especially, could not stand to be ranked below His merely human mother Mary who was crowned queen of Christ’s kingdom in heaven according to the tradition of Davidic kings.

[Colorado Cowgirl]

“(Mormons often say there are many gods, but the only one they worship is the god of this world!)” We all worshipped the god of this world at one time, because we were in total darkness. But now that He has called us into His Light, we are children of the Light. And the God that we worship is the God of 10,000 universes. Not just this little bitty world!

[yup2394871293]

Your momma!

[Jack Hydrazine]

I’ve heard that the inside of the big Mormon temple in SLC has pentagrams posted on the walls. It’s probably false but can any ex-Mormons who have been there confirm or deny it?

[munin]

In Mormonism, God and Lucifer are one

Just a thought, the name Lusifer translate to
The enlightend one or the Shining one LOL

[sten]

always funny considering the source and the people pushing such drivel

tally it up...

Satans son will profess to be a man of peace
the world will be taken in by him
he will claim to be God
he will sustain life ending wounds... the return

hmmm....

[fishtank]

Mormonism is the doctrinal twin sister of Islam -— and Jospeh Snith wanted to be the Second Mohammed, conquering by the sword.

Rmoney conducts a campaign of lies and deceit, and a disproportionate amount oh his support comes from a group called LDS Inc.

It matters.

[Elsie]

The likely reason for the “angel of light’s” rebellion was that he could not stand to be ranked below the God-man Jesus, and especially, could not stand to be ranked below His merely human mother Mary who was crowned queen of Christ’s kingdom in heaven according to the tradition of Davidic kings.

HUH?

[Elsie]

Your momma!

BRILLIANT!

[Elsie]

Mormonism is the doctrinal twin sister of Islam -— and Jospeh Snith wanted to be the Second Mohammed, conquering by the sword.

 

“I Will Be a Second Mohammed”

In the heat of the Missouri “Mormon War” of 1838, Joseph Smith made the following claim, “I will be to this generation a second Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was ‘the Alcoran [Koran] or the Sword.’ So shall it eventually be with us—‘Joseph Smith or the Sword!’ ”[1]

It is most interesting that a self-proclaimed Christian prophet would liken himself to Mohammed, the founder of Islam. His own comparison invites us to take a closer look as well. And when we do, we find some striking—and troubling—parallels. Consider the following.

• Mohammed and Joseph Smith both had humble beginnings. Neither had formal religious connections or upbringing, and both were relatively uneducated. Both founded new religions by creating their own scriptures. In fact, followers of both prophets claim these scriptures are miracles since their authors were the most simple and uneducated of men.[2]

• Both prophets claim of having angel visitations, and of receiving divine revelation to restore pure religion to the earth again. Mohammed was told that both Jews and Christians had long since corrupted their scriptures and religion. In like manner, Joseph Smith was told that all of Christianity had become corrupt, and that consequently the Bible itself was no longer reliable. In both cases, this corruption required a complete restoration of both scripture and religion. Nothing which preceded either prophet could be relied upon any longer. Both prophets claim they were used of God to restore eternal truths which once existed on earth, but had been lost due to human corruption.

• Both prophets created new scripture which borrowed heavily from the Bible, but with a substantially new “spin.” In his Koran, Mohammed appropriates a number of Biblical themes and characters—but he changes the complete sense of many passages, claiming to “correct” the Bible. In so doing he changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place. In like manner, Joseph Smith created the Book of Mormon, much of which is plagiarized directly from the King James Bible. Interestingly, the Book of Mormon claims that this same Bible has been substantially corrupted and is therefore unreliable. In addition, Joseph Smith went so far as to actually create his own version of the Bible itself, the “Inspired Version,” in which he both adds and deletes significant portions of text, claiming he is “correcting” it. In so doing he also changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place.

• As a part of their new scriptural “spin,” both prophets saw themselves as prophesied in scripture, and both saw themselves as a continuation of a long line of Biblical prophets. Mohammed saw himself as a continuation of the ministry of Moses and Jesus. Joseph Smith saw himself as a successor to Enoch, Melchizedek, Joseph and Moses. Joseph Smith actually wrote himself into his own version of the Bible—by name.

• Both prophets held up their own scripture as superior to the Bible. Mohammed claimed that the Koran was a perfect copy of the original which was in heaven. The Koran is therefore held to be absolutely perfect, far superior to the Bible and superceding it. In like manner, Joseph Smith also made the following claim. “I told the Brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding its precepts, than by any other book.”[3]

• Despite their claim that the Bible was corrupt, both prophets admonished their followers to adhere to its teachings. An obvious contradiction, this led to selective acceptance of some portions and wholesale rejection of others. As a result, the Bible is accepted by both groups of followers only to the extent that it agrees with their prophet’s own superior revelation.

• Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith taught that true salvation was to be found only in their respective religions. Those who would not accept their message were considered “infidels,” pagans or Gentiles. In so doing, both prophets became the enemy of genuine Christianity, and have led many people away from the Christ of the Bible.

• Both prophets encountered fierce opposition to their new religions and had to flee from town to town because of threats on their lives. Both retaliated to this opposition by forming their own militias. Both ultimately set up their own towns as model societies.

• Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith left unclear instructions about their successors. The majority of Mohammed’s followers, Sunni Muslims, believe they were to elect their new leader, whereas the minority, Shiite Muslims, believe Mohammed’s son was to be their next leader. Similarly, the majority of Joseph Smith's followers, Mormons, believed their next prophet should have been the existing leader of their quorum of twelve apostles, whereas the minority, RLDS, believed Joseph Smith's own son should have been their next prophet. Differences on this issue, and many others, have created substantial tension between these rival groups of each prophet.

• Mohammed taught that Jesus was just another of a long line of human prophets, of which he was the last. He taught that he was superior to Christ and superceded Him. In comparison, Joseph Smith also made the following claim.

“I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him, but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.”[4] In light of these parallels, perhaps Joseph Smith's claim to be a second Mohammed unwittingly became his most genuine prophecy of all.

---

[1] Joseph Smith made this statement at the conclusion of a speech in the public square at Far West, Missouri on October 14, 1838. This particular quote is documented in Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History, second edition, (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1971), p. 230–231. Fawn Brodie’s footnote regarding this speech contains valuable information, and follows. “Except where noted, all the details of this chapter [16] are taken from the History of the [Mormon] Church. This speech, however, was not recorded there, and the report given here is based upon the accounts of seven men. See the affidavits of T.B. Marsh, Orson Hyde, George M. Hinkle, John Corrill, W.W. Phelps, Samson Avard, and Reed Peck in Correspondence, Orders, etc., pp. 57–9, 97–129. The Marsh and Hyde account, which was made on October 24, is particularly important. Part of it was reproduced in History of the [Mormon] Church, Vol. III, p. 167. See also the Peck manuscript, p. 80. Joseph himself barely mentioned the speech in his history; see Vol. III, p. 162.”

[2] John Ankerberg & John Weldon, The Facts on Islam, (Eugene, OR: Harvest House Publishers, 1998), pp.8–9. Eric Johnson, Joseph Smith & Muhammed, (El Cajon, CA: Mormonism Research Ministry, 1998), pp. 6–7.

[3] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.4, pp.461.

[4] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.6, pp.408–409.

[fishtank]

Yes. Thank you!

BOTH parts of Rmoney, his leftism AND his acceptance of a false religion and of a person like Jospeh Snith, BOTH of these parts of Rmoney need to see the light of day.

[dragonblustar]

Do you think that it might be considered bashing when it comes from anti-Mormon websites or other anti-Mormon material from members of FR who are completey anti-Mormon and the news articles that in any way,

Does the truth about Mormonism frighten you?

[Godzilla]

Don’t like it Colofornian? See my tagline.

Don't like it - don't hang around the religion forum then.

[Godzilla]

I’ve heard that the inside of the big Mormon temple in SLC has pentagrams posted on the walls.

Nope - they are on the outside.

[Godzilla]

I’ve heard that the inside of the big Mormon temple in SLC has pentagrams posted on the walls.

There is also a more 'traditional' pentegram on the history and art museum across from the temple.

[Godzilla]

I’ve heard that the inside of the big Mormon temple in SLC has pentagrams posted on the walls.

There is also a more 'traditional' pentegram on the history and art museum across from the temple.

[fishtank]

Has anyone actually even commented on the SUBSTANCE of your post yet?

[longtermmemmory]

and the statue of liberty is dedicated to lucifer...

these must be troll threads from DU and poedesta’s troublemakers.

Either that or kookpaulists.

[fishtank]

No substance here, either.

[fishtank]

"Yeah, I can hear the crickets chirping, but no, I don't see any elephants in THIS room."

[Godzilla]

"Yeah, I can hear the crickets chirping, but no, I don't see any elephants in THIS room."

Oh NOW you did it

[Scoutmaster]

Has anyone actually even commented on the SUBSTANCE of your post yet?

Well, it appears the post is based on the Endowment Ceremony before the 1990 changes. "Pay Lay Ale" was removed from the Endowment Ceremony with the 1990 changes, along with some things that would make most Christians quite uncomfortable - such as Lucifer paying the Protestant minister to preach his untrue Gospel.

I'm not LDS, and I try not to address theology. Many LDS members have gone through the ceremony since 1990 and do not know what was in the Endowment Ceremony before 1990. If they read this, their first response is going to be "this can't be true; "Pay Lay Ale" was not part of my Endowment Ceremony."

And they're right. It wasn't.

[mas cerveza por favor]

Starting with Solomon, each Davidic king crowned his mother as queen rather than one of his wives.

[BlueMoose]

And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.

50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.

[Elsie]

Tripod don’t like you!

[Elsie]

Has anyone actually even commented on the SUBSTANCE of your post yet?

I will!

It was posted by a Hateful BIGOT who wants the WARTS of MORMONism to be revealed!

--MormonDupe(Did THAT help any?)