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Hell; Jesus Warned the Most...
11-10-11 | Bill Randles

Posted on 11/10/2011 3:56:02 PM PST by pastorbillrandles

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. (Matthew 10:28)

It has been dawning on me lately that there are many within the confessing church who have already forsaken the biblical teaching on hellfire, and Divine judgment. The heavy message of a God of wrath, who utterly hates all that is evil, false, and degraded doesn’t fit the new “kinder and gentler” humanistic church-growth model adopted by so many.

The popularity of recent heretical books such as Love Wins, by Rob Bell, as well as the rarity of actual teaching on the fate of the wicked even among many evangelical churches have convinced me that this defection is real.

It is almost as though the idea of Divine wrath that underlies the traditional christian teaching on perdition, is seen as a primitive throwback, and somehow beneath the more evolved modern concept of God.

The new and improved evangelicals,(some calling themselves “emergents”) are not only rejecting Hell, but they are repudiating some of the very attributes of the God of the Bible.

This is precisely the meaning of the second commandment’s prohibition against forming our own preferred image of God, rather than worshipping God as He has revealed himself to be. People don’t really reject Hell, they reject God as He has revealed himself to be; Holy, Sovereign, Majestic, Righteous, a a God of wrath against sin as well as a God of mercy.

But most of what we know that is biblical and accurate about hell and judgment comes from the teaching of Jesus himself! He is the one who warns humanity in the starkest terms of the wrath that is coming. More than Peter, Paul, James,Jude or any one else, Jesus warns us of the danger of Hell fire.

How fitting that it is the Saviour and the only Mediator who should be entrusted with this revelation from God.

After all, Peter, Paul, James, Jude, as well as you and I, all fully deserve to go to hell. Jesus alone lived a fully God honoring human life, as the Son of Man. And at the prime of his life He made the offering to God that makes it possible for us all to avoid it.

Furthermore, Jesus, is the one who will actually decide the eternal fate of every human being. Therefore it seems apt that to him also is committed the fullest revelation of the reality and liability of perdition. In scripture we behold him compassionately pleading to all who will listen not to go to hell!

To Jesus, “trivial” sins such as anger, name calling, and mental adultery are so terrible that it would be better (if possible) to maim oneself to avoid them than to indulge them all the way to hell!

And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. (Matthew 5:29-30)

Obviously self-mutilation is not the cure of sin, but Jesus is teaching a complete and radical resistance towards indwelling sin, particularly of thought(Eye), deed(Hand), and direction(feet).Those who escape Hell, are at war with indwelling sin!

Jesus also speaks in stark terms about the horrifying level of regret and remorse experienced by those cast out into outer darkness;

But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.(Matthew 8:12)

Notice too his constant warning to the “children of the Kingdom”, in other words the ones who assume they are sure to go to heaven, as though it were some kind of birthright, rather than an indescribable privilege, a precious gift of mercy.

Once again it is Jesus who warned that the end of the age would see a great judgment, a separation of “wheat and tares” and that the Hell would be as a “furnace of fire”;

As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.(Matthew 13:40-42)

One of the most frightening images is that of Hell being the place where the “worm dieth not, and the fire is never quenched”,

Notice the urgency of Jesus! His concern that we seriously resist evil, as if all or any of us are in danger of hell fire! I believe that Jesus is the faithful witness to the Truth, the only sure account of eternal reality, He warned more of Hell than he spoke of heaven!

To hear modern preachers and theologians speak of it, you would almost think Jesus didn’t believe in hell. But look at this small sampling from the gospels! This isn’t Dante’s inferno, or some angry fundamentalist, or a medieval monk, these are the words of the Son of God!

It is Jesus who tells us that Hell wasn’t really intended for people, it was made for the devil and his angels…

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:(Matthew 25:41)

But we shouldn’t assume people won’t be going there, because in this context Jesus himself is the one sending people there, no doubt sadly, but surely. Though Hell was made for the Devil and his angels, those who side with the Devil in his rebellion against God, must go there.

Jesus again is the one who specifically warned us of the ultimate disaster, that any should “die in his sin”;

I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.(John 8:24)

The worst thing that could happen to anyone, is that the should die in their sin! To die unforgiven, is to face the full liability for a life of unbroken resistance to God, the Infinite,Holy,Personal King of the universe.

Keith Green the psalmist/evangelist once wrote a song called “Alter Call” which said,

Most people don’t find out

till It’s too late,

That someone has to pay the price.

You can pay it yourself (hah) or Let someone else,,/b>

But who would be that nice,

To pay a debt that isn’t his,

oh I Know someone like that,

And he’s your best friend, he Really is, he really loves you.

Most people don’t find out till Their half dead,

that they need another life.

You say you’ve heard everything That’s ever been said About The Way, The Truth, The Life.

You say you’ve heard lot of Preaching all before, so many times,

But did you ever open up your Door, give Him a chance to prove Himself?

Jesus is the one who spoke more on Hell than anyone else, and who did what needed to be dome to save us from Hell, by giving his life to Gd as an offering, a substitute who bore the penalty due us, that God’s wrath might be satisfied. Jesus loves you, flee the wrath to come! Come to him for forgiveness and new life before its too late!


TOPICS: Current Events; Evangelical Christian; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: heaven; hell; jesus; judgment

1 posted on 11/10/2011 3:56:05 PM PST by pastorbillrandles
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To: pastorbillrandles

A Mighty Fortress Is Our God
By Martin Luther

A mighty fortress is our God,
a bulwark never failing;
our helper he amid the flood
of mortal ills prevaling.
For still our ancient foe
doth seek to work us woe;
his craft and power are great,
and armed with cruel hate,
on earth is not his equal.

2. Did we in our own strength confide,
our striving would be losing,
were not the right man on our side,
the man of God’s own choosing.
Dost ask who that may be?
Christ Jesus, it is he;
Lord Sabaoth, his name,
from age to age the same,
and he must win the battle.

3. And though this world, with devils filled,
should threaten to undo us,
we will not fear, for God hath willed
his truth to triumph through us.
The Prince of Darkness grim,
we tremble not for him;
his rage we can endure,
for lo, his doom is sure;
one little word shall fell him.

4. That word above all earthly powers,
no thanks to them, abideth;
the Spirit and the gifts are ours,
thru him who with us sideth.
Let goods and kindred go,
this mortal life also;
the body they may kill;
God’s truth abideth still;
his kingdom is forever.


2 posted on 11/10/2011 4:05:13 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (You can't invade the US. There'd be a rifle behind every blade of grass.~Admiral Yamamoto)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Thanks Second Division, so true! Also thanks for your service- happy 11-11- God bless.


3 posted on 11/10/2011 4:10:24 PM PST by pastorbillrandles
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To: pastorbillrandles

Word to yo’ mutha Joel Olsteen.

Heed up yo!


4 posted on 11/10/2011 4:17:07 PM PST by Hammerhead
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To: pastorbillrandles

I was in the 2nd United States Infantry Division of the US Army, not the Marine Corps. My late father was a Marine from 1943 to 1965, so I joined a different branch to see things I hadn’t as a Marine brat. Plus the Army offered me more options. You’re not the first FReeper who thought I was in the Marine Corps, believe me! LOL


5 posted on 11/10/2011 4:20:26 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (You can't invade the US. There'd be a rifle behind every blade of grass.~Admiral Yamamoto)
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To: pastorbillrandles

God bless you for this very real reminder of our fate without Salvation.


6 posted on 11/10/2011 4:23:23 PM PST by Inyo-Mono (My greatest fear is that when I'm gone my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them)
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To: pastorbillrandles
Maybe “Pastor Bill” should spend more time with his studies since he confuses and treats different terms as one and the same.
7 posted on 11/10/2011 4:36:32 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: pastorbillrandles

“Jesus, is the one who will actually decide the eternal fate of every human being”

Thank God for that! Remember when the Disciples wanted Jesus to call down fire on some group? Jesus rebuked them. The judging is Jesus’ business; He is worthy; He has the authority. I don’t like being condemned to hell by puny humans; I’m funny that way.


8 posted on 11/10/2011 4:39:08 PM PST by Saundra Duffy ( For victory & freedom!!!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I was actually wishing you a happy armistice day- God bless you for your service!


9 posted on 11/10/2011 4:40:33 PM PST by pastorbillrandles
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To: pastorbillrandles

Duh! I mixed up today’s Marine Corps birthday with tomorrow!


10 posted on 11/10/2011 4:45:57 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (You can't invade the US. There'd be a rifle behind every blade of grass.~Admiral Yamamoto)
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To: pastorbillrandles
Jesus actually referenced Gehenna, the Valley of Gehimnon, in that passage.

And do not have fear of those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the Spiritl. Rather, have fear more so of Him who is able to destroy the Spirit and the body in Gehenna.

What's interesting is from time to time I'm reminded that christianity and conservatives like to spout off the phrase "judaeo-christian" like it's going to seal up all liberal arguments. The weird part being that 'judaeo' comes first and is the most disregarded aspect, what with Jesus and his 12 disciples having been zealous Jews and all.
For 5,000 years before Jesus and 350 years after his execution "Hell" never existed. Actually reading the Tanakh (or OT as christians call it) reveals no mention of it or a 'hellfire'. Any translation of the NT worth it's salt also translates what was said correctly without any hellenistic mythology interpolations.
"Hell" didn't exist until the Latin Vulgate and the King James Version was produced by hellenist christians.
Besides the Hebrew Tanakh there are many christian bibles that don't use the mythological iconography as well:
Hanson’s New Covenant, Young’s Literal Translation, Twentieth Century New Testament, Rotherham’s Emphasized Bible, Weymouth’s New Testament, Jewish Publication Society Bible OT, Emphatic Diaglott Greek /English Int., Tanakh/The Complete Jewish Bible
to name a few.
She'ol, The Pit, The Abyss, Gehenna, these are not "hebrew terms" for hell, they are names and titles that have specific meaning and have nothing to do with a mythological "hades-realm full of fire".
Reading Tanakh & Revelation reveals that upon the final resurrection at the End-of-the Age His(YHWH's) Wrath will be like a Refiner's Fire sweeping away Death, The Adversary, and all the Wicked forever. They don't go to a mythological hades-realm full of fire, they get burnt out of existence altogether....by YHWH's wrath.
Jesus didn't preach a new religion separate from his Jewish roots, Paul and the Hellenists did that.
11 posted on 11/10/2011 4:53:31 PM PST by brent13a (Freerepublic is a great sight for conservative news, if you can stomach the cop hating.)
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To: Saundra Duffy

I condemn no body, I am fortunate that by the cross I have escaped condemnation, the last thing any christian woud want to do is call fire down on anyone. But warnings are valod and needed in this generation-


12 posted on 11/10/2011 5:03:41 PM PST by pastorbillrandles
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To: pastorbillrandles
One must define the word ‘evil’ as our Almighty Father above defines it, not by Greco-Roman-English standards. Doctrine of Christendom is so hell bent on physical immorality, but is that the ‘evil’ that he is most concerned about? (Ex 32-the golden calf incident and Aaron's attempt to appease the people by letting them break a commandment that YHVH had just spoken to them Himself) It's not how we perceive how we worship YHVH, it is how HE perceives it and HE & His Son, Yah'shua our Messiah only gave us one way, the way of Torah through the testimony of Yah'shua our Messiah. Yah'shua kept all his Father's ways are we are to do our best to do so also. Add not & take away not!

Worshiping our Elohyim in a manner that he specifically commanded us not to do is the root of all evil because it shows our contempt for His ways & instructions. It shows our disrespect for Him that bring dishonor to His Name. Since man fell, YHVH has been trying to get His children to turn back to His ways in order to restore His good Name.

The 1st commandment that YHVH gave was in Gen 2:1 - on the seventh day YHVH Alef-Tav rested...and YHVH Alef-Tav sanctified it and made it holy. It is a set apart day for His children to rest from their work and focus their attention on teaching & learning His Word so that they may then be filled with the ‘fuel’ to sustain them while they are out in the world the other days of the week.

Prov 13:24 says to ‘spare the rod’. Greco-Roman-English mindsets tell us this has to do with corporal punishment. In YHVH’s pure Hebrew the word ‘rod’ is literally ‘Sabbath’ which means divine teaching. For nearly 2 thousand years, Christendom has removed the core instruction of YHVH and kept it from His children. The core instruction that teaches one the path to ‘life’.

Want to get the world to ‘turn back’ then teach ‘turn back’ NOT ‘turn away’ from because just ‘turning away’ can lead anywhere but ‘turning back to’ leads one to the true path to life which was proclaimed in the beginning, not 4000 yrs later.

With the aid of the testimony of Messiah and following him by ‘turning back’ to his Father's ways, the light in our hearts truly shines in order to light the true path so we can run that race in pursuit of eternal life & peace & WIN!

13 posted on 11/10/2011 5:14:52 PM PST by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: brent13a

thank you for adding your wisdom. Shalom


14 posted on 11/10/2011 5:16:47 PM PST by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: pastorbillrandles

There are many paths to hell, i.e. Religion, self righteousness, but, only ONE way to God, Heaven, Eternal Life, that is Jesus Christ, Yeshua !

Jesus Christ's own words:
Matthew 7:13:

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

John 14:6 :
Jesus answered him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one goes to the Father except through me.
15 posted on 11/10/2011 5:24:46 PM PST by American Constitutionalist (The fool has said in his heart, " there is no GOD " ..)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Rock of Ages

Augustus M. Toplady, 1740-1778



1. Rock of Ages, cleft for me,
let me hide myself in thee;
let the water and the blood,
from thy wounded side which flowed,
be of sin the double cure;
save from wrath and make me pure.

2. Not the labors of my hands
can fulfill thy law's commands;
could my zeal no respite know,
could my tears forever flow,
all for sin could not atone;
thou must save, and thou alone.

3. Nothing in my hand I bring,
simply to the cross I cling;
naked, come to thee for dress;
helpless, look to thee for grace;
foul, I to the fountain fly;
wash me, Savior, or I die.

4. While I draw this fleeting breath,
when mine eyes shall close in death,
when I soar to worlds unknown,
see thee on thy judgment throne,
Rock of Ages, cleft for me,
let me hide myself in thee.

16 posted on 11/10/2011 5:34:20 PM PST by American Constitutionalist (The fool has said in his heart, " there is no GOD " ..)
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To: Saundra Duffy
John 5:41 “I do not receive honor from men. 42 But I know you, that you do not have the love of God in you. 43 I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive. 44 How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God? 45 Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you—Moses, in whom you trust. 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

Deut 32:35 Vengeance is Mine, and recompense; Their foot shall slip in due time; For the day of their calamity is at hand, And the things to come hasten upon them.’

Heb 10:15 But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before, 16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the LORD(YHVH): I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,”[Jer 31:33-34; Dt 30:6; Dt 4:9; Dt 6:6; Dt 11:9] 17 then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” 18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin...26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,”[Dt 32:5] says the Lord. And again, “The LORD(YHVH) will judge His people.”[Dt 32:36] 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Yah'shua Messiah is 'Lord' but YHVH our Elohyim is "LORD" & judge over all and we will be judged by the Words of YHVH as written by Moses, not by what Greco-Roman-English Christendom doctrine teaches as sin.

17 posted on 11/10/2011 5:51:12 PM PST by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: pastorbillrandles
by the cross I have escaped condemnation

So you teach all your flock to follow Torah over doctrine of Christendom that changed Torah to include pagan worship practices?

18 posted on 11/10/2011 5:55:22 PM PST by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: brent13a
Nice try with that Paul not being a good Jew thing.

Gehenna and Hades are not non-existence, and torment cannot and does not mean annihilation:

 Strong's Number:  928 basaniðzw
Original Word Word Origin
  basaniðzw   from (931)
Transliterated Word Phonetic Spelling
  Basanizo   bas-an-id'-zo
Parts of Speech TDNT
  Verb   1:561,96
 Definition
 
  1. to test (metals) by the touchstone, which is a black siliceous stone used to test the purity of gold or silver by the colour of the streak produced on it by rubbing it with either metal
  2. to question by applying torture
  3. to torture
  4. to vex with grievous pains (of body or mind), to torment
  5. to be harassed, distressed
    1. of those who at sea are struggling with a head wind

Cordially,

19 posted on 11/10/2011 5:55:34 PM PST by Diamond (He has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people,)
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To: pastorbillrandles
So you teach all your flock to follow Torah over doctrine of Christendom that changed replaced Torah to include in leui of pagan worship practices?
20 posted on 11/10/2011 5:58:46 PM PST by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: Diamond
Sorry but that site is based on Hebrew defined by Greek-English rather than Greek-English defined by Hebrew which is the language of YHVH our Elohyim. Strong's, BDB, Thayer's, Vine's and all others are based on a Hebrew understanding according to Greco-Roman-English. They are all faulty and should be used with caution by putting their definitions agains the scrutiny of the Torah, Prophets & Writings. The Scriptures of YHVH are really good at defining His words without the help of biased men.
21 posted on 11/10/2011 6:07:38 PM PST by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: brent13a

Jesus didn’t preach a new religion separate from his Jewish roots -—————

you are correct, the OT tells the story of God reconciling sinners to Himself thru the coming Messiah who will bear the perfect Passover Sacrifice.

Jesus taught “ I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except by Me”

Sadly, the majority of Jews then and ever since, did not believe Jesus was sent by the Father. because of this, the Kingdom was taken from them and given to a nation that bears fruit.


22 posted on 11/10/2011 6:28:59 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: patlin
Yah'shua Messiah is 'Lord' but YHVH our Elohyim is "LORD" & judge over all...

Then about whom was Psalm 102 written?

and we will be judged by the Words of YHVH as written by Moses, not by what Greco-Roman-English Christendom doctrine teaches as sin.

That Covenant as represented by the Tablets of Stone had a historical beginning and a historical ending. It has been superseded by the New Covenant. You need to Shepardize your legal citations. And btw, who is that "we" you are talking about as being judged by the law of Moses? Since when was the specific document that constituted the legal covenant terms between God and the nation of Israel ever given or applied to any Gentile as a Gentile outside Israel??

Cordially,

23 posted on 11/10/2011 6:29:22 PM PST by Diamond (He has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people,)
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To: patlin
Sorry but the Greek word was written by the beloved disciple of Yeshua haMashiach IN GREEK.

Cordially.

24 posted on 11/10/2011 6:41:49 PM PST by Diamond (He has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people,)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
When Jesus and his crew of 12 travelled the land professing his Father's Good News they did so from Torah and the Prophets. They did not walk into villages with a gilded New Testament under each arm (as it didn't exist) preaching from Paul's "epistles".
While Jesus and his disciples taught from the Hebrew Torah & Prophets, 20 years later when Paul and his disciples were traveling, and spreading Paul's invented & mutated version of the teachings, Paul was misquoting, altering, editing, and redacting scripture from the Greek Septuagint.
The apocalyptic nature of the Good News of Matthew, Good News of John, and Jesus' Revelation are heavily steeped in and come from Palestinian Judaism prevalent of Jesus' time. They are directly influenced and come from the original Torah and Prophets.

Genesis 3:19
….till you return to the ground; for out of it you were taken: for you are dust, and to dust shall you return.

Daniel 12:2
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to an age-lasting life, and some to shame and age-lasting contempt.

Isaiah 26:19
The dead men of Your people shall live, my dead body shall arise. Awake and sing, you that dwell in the dust: for your dew is as the dew on the herbs, and the earth shall cast out the shades of the dead.

Psalm 16:10
For You will not abandon me among the dead; nor will You allow your set apart believer to rot in the grave.

Malachi 3:3
But who can endure the day of his coming? And who will stand when he appears? For he is like a refiner's fire, and like launderer's soap;

Zechariah 13:9
I will bring the third part into the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will test them like gold is tested. They will call on my name, and I will hear them. I will say, 'It is my people;' and they will say, 'YHWH is my Master.'"

Revelation 20:10
….And they will be refined and purified day and night for an age of the ages.

Of course this also benefits from the original beliefs (yes, professed by Jesus and his followers of the time) of what man's nature is:

Genesis 2:7
Then Master YHWH formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living soul.

Psalm 104:29-30
But if you turn away from them, they panic. When you take away their breath, they die and turn again to dust. When you give them your breath, life is created, and you renew the face of the earth.

Ecclesiastes 12:5,6,7
....because the man man goes to his eternal home.....and the dust returns to the earth as it was: and the spirit returns to YHWH who gave it.

Jesus and his 12 taught a version of the same thing that all Jewish Teachers taught at that time and is still relevant within Torah/Tanakh today: When all die they are gone, they are dead; no 'wandering ghosts' no 'lost spirits'. They stay that way until the return of The Mashiyach.
There is the first resurrection, when YHWH resends his High Priest at the End of the Age. That is when The Set Apart Believers will be brought back from She'ol (Body reformed from dust+YHWH's Breath of Life=Living Soul)
There is a battle and there is the Second Resurrection of the unbelievers and the Wicked. The Set Apart Believers help the High Priest profess the Good News a final time. Those who accept come intot he fold, those who don't get thrown out.
The YHWH's Wrath (that Refining Fire) sweeps over the Wicked, the Adversary, and Death and they are destroyed to nothing.
YHWH's High Priest the ushers in the new Age, and a New Jerusalem on Earth….The Kingdom of God reconstitutes/refreshes on Earth.

It's really quite simple, no celestial pearly gates at the ends of the universe and no cave of fire across the river styx.
25 posted on 11/10/2011 7:27:54 PM PST by brent13a (Freerepublic is a great sight for conservative news, if you can stomach the cop hating.)
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To: Diamond
Then about whom was Psalm 102 written?

In Psalm 102, David is praying to YHVH. LORD is a tretragram for YHVH(Yahweh). After the destruction of the 2nd Temple, the Jews thought that saying Yahweh's name was part of what caused Him to bring the destruction so after that and to this day, orthodox Jews do not say His name out loud. In my CJB, they use ‘ADONAI’ in place of YHVH in Psalm 102, so to know what one is reading one needs to use a Hebrew Interlinear Bible.

‘Lord’ (capital ‘L’ small ‘ord’) is a title as in master, king, prince, etc, etc.

That Covenant as represented by the Tablets of Stone had a historical beginning and a historical ending. It has been superseded by the New Covenant

This is a flat out lie that has been perpetrated by the hierarchy of Christendom since the late 2nd century. Think about this for a moment:

If the law that defines sin was nailed to the cross, then what power does YHVH have to judge anyone for something that doesn't exist?

What was nailed to the cross was the bonds of commandments from ordinances. When one looks up that word ordinances in Greek, then taking it back to Hebrew, we find that both Greek & Hebrew define ordinances as religious dogma of man, NOT the Torah instructions of YHVH. But since we have been good little blind sheep who sit in pews and just take in what they give us rather than discerning what they say using the Words of YHVH, we have been sucked into the lies of the forefathers for nearly 2000 yrs and sadly just to say we believe Yah’shua is the Messiah is not enough for even haSatan believes Yah’shua is the Messiah.

James 2:18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!

FYI...gentile means one who is NOT a member of the covenant and the terms of the covenant are defined by the Words of YHVH that were given to Moses. We are His bride and unless we say ‘I do’ to the entire covenant like they did at Mt Sinai, He is not taking us as His bride. The new covenant is not new, it was proclaimed int he desert right before they crossed the Jordan. Yah’shua came to RENEW that covenant, not replace it because it was Yah’shua, “The Word”, the “Alef-Tav” that made it while Abraham was sleeping. (John 14; John 15; 1 John 2,3,5; Rev 1; Rev 12:17)

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome

Commandments in Hebrew is ‘davar’ which literally means ‘word’ NOT law as the doctrine of Christendom has defined it. His words are His house rules, the Constitution of His Kingdom, the same as we have for immigrants who come here. Want to be a citizen of the kingdom of the US, then you must agree and follow the rules, the Constitution, of the kingdom of the US, take the test & swear an oath. Where do you think the rules of civilized society came from? It wasn't from man, it was from His words that were written down by Moses.

26 posted on 11/10/2011 7:29:01 PM PST by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: Diamond
Yah’shua HaMashiach was a Jewish Hebrew who spoke His Father's language & his Father's words because he was “The Word” which was in the beginning that formed everything, made the covenant with Abraham and gave Moses the words of the Torah to write down. He didn't call himself the “Alef-Tav” out of some unknown revelation(pun intended).
27 posted on 11/10/2011 7:35:23 PM PST by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: brent13a

“when all die, they are gone”

really, is that what Jesus said? Jesus said to the thief on the cross, “this day, you will be with me in paradise”

they were both about to die, how could He say that if “they are gone”

Jesus revealed Himself to be the Messiah and told the Jews in His day that unless they believed He was sent from the Father, they would die in their sins.
they didn’t need to carry the NT, they were living the NT.

you are free to reject Jesus, but He said if you do, you will die in your sins. no second chances given, once you die, then comes judgement.

Jesus is either who He said He is, namely God in the flesh, or He is a liar, and a meglomaniac. no middle ground, no he was a “good man” or a prophet.


28 posted on 11/10/2011 7:45:39 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: Diamond
Sorry but the Greek word was written by the beloved disciple of Yeshua haMashiach IN GREEK

“Understanding the difficult words of Jesus” by David Biven...

Since the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, however, the leading proponents of the Aramaic theory have gradually begun to modify their views. Matthew Black, for instance, in the 3rd edition of his influential book, ‘An Aramaic Approach to the Gospels and Acts’ remarks:

The Qumran discoveries have also shed fresh light on the problem. M.Wilcox writes: “With regard to the matter of language, we ought to note that the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls has now placed at our disposal information of a highly interesting and relevant nature.... The nonbiblical texts show us a free, living language, and attest the fact that in New Testament times, and for some considerable time previously, Hebrew was not confined to Rabbinical circles by any means, but appeared as a normal vehicle of expression.
If this is a correct estimate of the Qumran evidence, where Hebrew certainly vastly dominated over Aramaic, then it may be held to confirm the view identified with the name of Professor Segal that Hebrew was actually a spoken vernacular in Judaea in the time of Christ” (Black 1967:47)

Greek Theory: ...it remains an important fact that the poor Greek of the Synoptic Gospels is found basically only in literary works that are translations from Semitic originals, such as the Septuagint...many Gospel expressions are not just poor Greek, but actually meaningless Greek....example Mt 6:22-23 reads “the lamp of the body is the eye. If your eye is good, your whole body is full of light; but if your eye is bad your whole body is full of darkness...”. the expressions “good eye” and “Bad eye” are common Hebrew idioms for “generous” and “Miserly”. Greek as no such idioms, and in Greek this statement of Jesus is meaningless, just as it is in English....Are we claiming that the Synoptic Gospels were not originally written on Greek? To this we must answer “yes” and “no”. The Synoptic Gospels as we have them today were originally written in Greek; however the text from which they descended was originally translated from a Hebrew archetype...it is the undertext of our canonical Gospels that reveals the Hebrew origin... Our canonical Gospels are based on Greek texts derived from Greek translation of the original Hebrew story of Jesus...It is most unfortunate that our Bible colleges and seminaries focus their attention on Greek and Hellenistic theology, and fail, by and large, to equip their students with the proper tools that would allow them to do serious bible exegesis...The evidence for Aramaic or Greek origins of the Synoptic Gospels simply will not stand up under critical analysis. There is far more substantial evidence indicating a Hebrew origin of the Synoptic Gospels.”

29 posted on 11/10/2011 7:45:51 PM PST by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: brent13a
spreading Paul's invented & mutated version of the teachings, Paul was misquoting, altering, editing, and redacting scripture from the Greek Septuagint.

That right there tells me everything I need to know about where you're coming from.

professed by Jesus and his followers of the time) of what man's nature is:
Genesis 2:7
Then Master YHWH formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living soul.

Psalm 104:29-30
But if you turn away from them, they panic. When you take away their breath, they die and turn again to dust. When you give them your breath, life is created, and you renew the face of the earth.

Ecclesiastes 12:5,6,7
....because the man man goes to his eternal home.....and the dust returns to the earth as it was: and the spirit returns to YHWH who gave it.

Jesus and his 12 taught a version of the same thing that all Jewish Teachers taught at that time and is still relevant within Torah/Tanakh today: When all die they are gone, they are dead; no 'wandering ghosts' no 'lost spirits'.

To conclude from selective quotes that what is true of parts of the whole must be true of the whole without providing any justification for the inference is fallacious reasoning.

It's really quite simple, no celestial pearly gates at the ends of the universe and no cave of fire across the river styx.

Resorting to gross caricature doesn't help your cause.

Cordially

30 posted on 11/10/2011 8:53:43 PM PST by Diamond (He has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people,)
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To: patlin
We were talking about a word used in the Book of Revelation, not the Synoptic Gospels. Do you really think John did not know, or could not or would not use Greek?

Cordially,

31 posted on 11/10/2011 8:56:30 PM PST by Diamond (He has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people,)
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To: patlin

I am curious, in your mind why did Jesus die on the cross?


32 posted on 11/10/2011 9:39:42 PM PST by Bellflower (Judas Iscariot, first democrat, robber, held the money bag, claimed to care for poor: John 12:4-6)
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To: Diamond
We were talking about a word used in the Book of Revelation, not the Synoptic Gospels.

And you think a word that was dictated to John (the writer of the “Gospel of John”) by ‘The Word” which was Yah’shua Messiah was the 1st time it was used? The 1st time the word appears in the Scriptures in in Gen 37 in reference to Joseph & the well incident. The Hebrew word she’ol that was translated into Greek is comprised of the ‘sheen’ and the ‘lamed’. It means to "draw out" as in draw out of something. It is an action word not a name of a place.

The Hebrew word for hell, is spelled ‘sheen’ ‘alef’ ‘vav’ ‘lamed’ = sh’awl, not she’ol. Thus the Greek mistranslated the word which happens quite frequently all throughout the Scriptures and thus renders the meaning of the passage meaningless unless one takes time to translate it properly to get the correct meaning. But according the the doctrine of Christendom, what the hell! They threw out the Sabbath and replaced it with the pagan day of weekly worship. They threw out the Almighty Father's appointed convocations and replaced them with the appointed holidays of pagan worship. They've got people eating things YHVH never meant for human consumption, not only for obedience sake, but for health reasons due to diseases these creatures carry that no amount of heat can kill.

So what makes you think what they gave us as Scripture is pure in form? I wasn't born yesterday, but I sure was a sucker from day one. That is until now that I know for myself how to actually discern the Scriptures as YHVH intended us to do.

Do you really think John did not know, or could not or would not use Greek?

John was a Jewish Hebrew and of course he probably knew Greek, most of them knew several languages; but Greek was not his 1st language. These men taught in synagogues, not pagan Greek churches.

The fact is, Yah’shua told us himself that he “only came for the lost sheep of Isra’el”.(Mt 15:24) He did not come searching for pagan gentiles who could have cared less about him because they had their own gods. The Scriptures define the lost sheep as the children of Isra’el who had been dispersed into all areas of the then known region when they were taken into captivity by Assyria as well as sent into Babylon because they had broken covenant with YHVH which is defined as not following Torah. They were dispersed for worshiping Him as the pagans worshiped their gods. It is not about how we perceive how we are worshiping YHVH. It is about how HE perceives how we are worshiping Him and worshiping Him in any other way than what He instructed is of great offense to Him. So offensive 3000 died at Mt Sinai for it.

1 John 3:1 See what love the Father has lavished on us in letting us be called God's children! For that is what we are. The reason the world does not know us is that it has not known him. 2 Dear friends, we are God's children now; and it has not yet been made clear what we will become. We do know that when he appears, we will be like him; because we will see him as he really is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in him continues purifying himself, since God is pure. 4 Everyone who keeps sinning is violating Torah - indeed, sin is violation of Torah.[CJB]

33 posted on 11/10/2011 10:07:09 PM PST by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: Bellflower
The main reason is explained in Romans chapter 7, which by the way, Paul says “for I am speaking to those who understand Torah”. So if one does not understand Torah, Paul is not speaking to you. That pretty much rules out the pagan gentile false doctrine proffered by Christendom.

Jer 3:8 Then I saw that for all the causes for which backsliding Israel(house of Isra’el, 10 northern tribes) had committed adultery, I had put her away and given her a certificate of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah(house of Judah/Jews) did not fear, but went and played the harlot also.

Jer 11:16 The LORD called your name, Green Olive Tree, Lovely and of Good Fruit. With the noise of a great tumult He has kindled fire on it, And its branches are broken

Ez 37:16 “As for you, son of man, take a stick for yourself and write on it: ‘For Judah and for the children of Israel, his companions.’ Then take another stick and write on it, ‘For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel, his companions.’

Jer 31:31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—; 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts

No new covenant for pagan gentiles, only for the two houses of Isra'el

Rm 11:19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?.....29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.

So when Paul says he was only talking to those who understand Torah and he began talking about the law of divorce; he knew exactly what he was saying and who he was saying it to, the out of covenant children of Isra’el, the branches of the Green Olive Tree, the dispersion of John 7:35. You see, YHVH never diovorced the house of Judah(Jews), and though they don't have things perfect, they have always kept Torah and have never been out of covenant. YHVH blinded the houe of Judah to the Messiah and we are to be a light for YHVH to bring the house of Judah to jealousy that they may seek Messiah. However, they are not & have never been out of covenant because He also told us that HE will lift the veil for the remaining Jews who are still blind to Messiah when HE returns.

The other reason Messiah came was to put salvation back where it belonged, in the hands of the heavenly High Priest as it had been from the beginning until the golden calf incident at Mt Sinai.

Exodus 19:6 And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation. (Speaking of the Malki’Tzedek priesthood which began with Adam, replaced by the Levitical priesthood because of the golden calf incident, now returned by the blood of Messiah)

34 posted on 11/10/2011 10:50:47 PM PST by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

I’m sorry, but the fruit you proffer here is not of HIS fruit.


35 posted on 11/10/2011 10:53:02 PM PST by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: patlin

I asked you why you believe that Jesus died on the cross. Also what do you think happened to the tribes other than Judah?


36 posted on 11/10/2011 11:03:36 PM PST by Bellflower (Judas Iscariot, first democrat, robber, held the money bag, claimed to care for poor: John 12:4-6)
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To: Bellflower
I can't help you understand if you won't take off the Greek lenses and come to the Scriptures without bias.

what do you think happened to the tribes

The dispersed are now scattered throughout all 4 corners of the now known world. There is no way to know if one is a descendant because there is no way to accurately test blood. But blood is NOT & never has been the determining factor as Isra’el did not exist until Jacob. It has always been the heart and the reason YHVH said in Ex 12:49

“One law shall be for the native-born and for the stranger who dwells among you.”

The laws of immigration we have here on earth are based off the law of HIS kingdom and why Paul said in Eph 2:19

Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God

haSatan in Rev 12:17 is ONLY concerned about “those who obey God's commands and bear witness(testimony) to Yeshua. Why is that? Because those that don't have both are not in covenant with YHVH!

37 posted on 11/10/2011 11:25:32 PM PST by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: patlin
Do you believe that Jesus died on the cross and if so please put in your own words why.

Do you have any thoughts about Hosea 1:10?

Hsa 1:10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, [that] in the place where it was said unto them, Ye [are] not my people, [there] it shall be said unto them, [Ye are] the sons of the living God.

38 posted on 11/10/2011 11:52:54 PM PST by Bellflower (Judas Iscariot, first democrat, robber, held the money bag, claimed to care for poor: John 12:4-6)
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To: pastorbillrandles

Good post.

I suspect too many ‘liberal’ Christians fail to discern the Judgment on the Cross with Forgiveness of sin.

His Judgment of all sin on the Cross, now allows God the freedom to forgive us immediately when we face Him and confess our sin to Him, placing us now in a perspective of Him in righteousness rather than expecting judgment.

So how do we escape judgment? Simple. By faith in Him, facing Him, confessing our sin to Him, and letting Him handle the situation. He provides, we accept and by that faithful obedience live the spiritual walk He has planned for us.


39 posted on 11/11/2011 12:24:19 AM PST by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: patlin
In Psalm 102, David is praying to YHVH. LORD is a tretragram for YHVH(Yahweh). After the destruction of the 2nd Temple, the Jews thought that saying Yahweh's name was part of what caused Him to bring the destruction so after that and to this day, orthodox Jews do not say His name out loud. In my CJB, they use ‘ADONAI’ in place of YHVH in Psalm 102, so to know what one is reading one needs to use a Hebrew Interlinear Bible.

Yes, it is referring to Yahweh, and yet Hebrews 1:10 quotes this passage in which Yahweh is the subject as referring to the Son. In Psalm 102:24 the person addressed is called “God”

8But of the Son he says,

    "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,
   the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
9You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;therefore God, your God, has anointed you
   with the oil of gladness beyond your companions."

 10And,

    "You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning,
   and the heavens are the work of your hands;
11they will perish, but you remain;
   they will all wear out like a garment,
12like a robe you will roll them up,
   like a garment they will be changed.[a]
But you are the same,
   and your years will have no end."

This is a flat out lie that has been perpetrated by the hierarchy of Christendom since the late 2nd century. Think about this for a moment:

If the law that defines sin was nailed to the cross, then what power does YHVH have to judge anyone for something that doesn't exist?

Was there sin in the world before the Law of Moses; the Covenant as represented by the Tablets of Stone?

What was nailed to the cross was the bonds of commandments from ordinances. When one looks up that word ordinances in Greek, then taking it back to Hebrew, we find that both Greek & Hebrew define ordinances as religious dogma of man, NOT the Torah instructions of YHVH.

That is just a flat out misrepresentation of the Scripture with regard to the use of the word "ordinances":
In Deuteronomy 5:1 The Ten Commandments are called "My statures and all My ordinances"
In Ezekiel 20:19-21 The weekly Sabbath is called "My statures and all My ordinances"
In Levitcus 19:1-37 The Ten commandments and the ceremonial law are mixed together without distinction and called "My statures and all My ordinances"
Deuteronomy 5:1-6:25: two whole chapters that deal exclusively with the Ten Commandments and the following 5 terms are used interchangeably without distinction: "statutes", "ordinances", "commandments", "judgments", "testimonies".
Ezekiel 20 calls the first and fourth commandment, My statutes and My ordinances.

The new covenant is not new, it was proclaimed int he desert right before they crossed the Jordan. Yah’shua came to RENEW that covenant, not replace it

You say the New Covenant is not new. Jeremiah says otherwise:

 31 "Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the LORD. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."

Commandments in Hebrew is ‘davar’ which literally means ‘word’ NOT law as the doctrine of Christendom has defined it. His words are His house rules, the Constitution of His Kingdom, the same as we have for immigrants who come here. Want to be a citizen of the kingdom of the US, then you must agree and follow the rules, the Constitution, of the kingdom of the US, take the test & swear an oath.

The irony of your statement here is that your doctrinal position on the Mosaic Law would be similar to that of a contemporary who thinks we are still living under the Articles of Confederation. You are trying to live under the wrong Constitution.

Cordially,

40 posted on 11/11/2011 12:50:25 AM PST by Diamond (He has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people,)
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To: Bellflower
Do you believe that Jesus died on the cross

I KNOW Yah’shua died on the cross and I already gave you the reason why, to fulfill prophecy, to bring the House of Isra’el back into covenant by the return of the original order of the Heavenly Malki’Tzedek Priesthood through which all sins are forgiven.

Do you have any thoughts about Hosea 1:10

Paul quotes this in Romans 9. They are biblical terms for the children of Isra’el. Shall be as sand of the sea is a quote from the Covenant of the Promise that was made with Abraham

Gen 22:17 ...and multiplying I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heaven and as the sand which is on the seashore

Abraham was not an Isra’eli, he was a Hebrew. It is not the physical seed of Abraham, but the spiritual seed, those that keep covenant. Yes they can be of the physical, but it is not a prerequisite.

Rm 9:For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, 7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.” 8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.

The promise was made based on obedience to YHVH, not physical seed of the flesh. There has only been one seed of promise and that is the seed of the Spirit of YHVH that produces fruit through obedience. Only the seed of YHVH can produce His fruit.

Gen 26:4 And I will make your descendants multiply as the stars of heaven; I will give to your descendants all these lands; and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; 5 because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”

not my people & sons of the living God refers to the divorce when he said they were no longer his, but if they should turn from their wicked ways by turning back to YHVH & His ways, they will once again be called sons of the living God.

2 Chron 7:14 If My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land

There are 3 parts of the covenant. One part is the seed and without the spiritual seed(Torah & testimony of Yah'shua the Messiah) the physical seed does not enter the kingdom.

The 2nd is the blood atonement for sin. The 1st atonement came through the Malki’Tzedek priesthood when the animal was sacrificed to make clothing for Adam & Eve after they had sinned. Cain & Abel made sacrifices, though Cain did not do it as YHVH had commanded thus his sacrifice was not accepted. Noah made sacrifices as well as Abraham. And they all knew what was considered clean & unclean withiout any written Torah. YHVH’s commands at Mt Sinai were nothing new, it was just that the people had gotten so stubborn and hard hearted that he finally had them written down so there no longer could be any excuse for not learning them. Yah’shua did bring to completion the blood sacrifice for sin by sacrificing himself and shedding his blood for all forgiveness of sin that was done through the earthly Levitical High priesthood prior to his death. Once he died the blood sacrifices on Yom Kippur continued but the sacrifices offered were never again accepted by YHVH. This is a fact recorded in Jewish history that all can look up. When Yah’shua died, he became the official & final Malki'Tzedek High Priest that never dies. He is now our High Priest forever and forgiveness for all sin goes to YHVH through him.

If Torah is gone and was nailed to the cross as the doctrine of Christendom teaches, then there is no need for a high priest because there is nothing left to define sin as YHVH defined sin as ‘transgression of Torah’. So according to this doctrine taught by Christendom, any sin that is defined today, is defined by man, not YHVH and therefore YHVH has no authority over it. His jurisdiction is confined to Torah, not the laws of man as His kingdom is not of this earth. If we are not of Torah, we are not of Him. Period.

The 3rd part is the law of divorce. We are to be his bride but since the house of Isra'el committed adultery against YHVH and practiced pagan style worship as they did at Mt Sinai, they were divorced. The only way to be part of the final marriage is for the one who walked through the pieces, thereby sealing the covenant of the promise with Abraham while he slept, to die. The one who went through the pieces was "The Word" and thus "The Word" had to come and die. That is what Romans 7 is all about. That was the "Good News", there was a way for the adulteress to get back into the covenant. And that is why they came by the thousands, they all knew who they were. They all kept Torah in some part & went to synagogue but because the House of Shammai who was in control of the priesthood at that time had added so many oral laws(Talmud) to Torah in order to keep these brethren from returning, Yah'shua the Messiah had to come and set the house of Shammai straight.

There were 2 divisions of the Levitical priesthood at that time, the house of Shammai & the house of Hillel. The house of Shammai was hard core and all things had to be done before any entrance into the house of YHVH, including the oral laws they had added to Torah that are written in the Talmud. Thus the arguments over circumcision and washing of hands before eating, etc, etc. The house of Hillel which Paul was taught by from his youth didn't require circumcision prior to being accepted as a member of the House of YHVH and why he said, let them do these few things, the rest they will learn because Moses is read every Sabbath.

41 posted on 11/11/2011 1:42:18 AM PST by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: Diamond
Did you look up all those words for ordinances to see how the original spealls them? NO

Eph 2:15 G1378 dogma dog’-mah From the base of G1380; a law (civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical)LXX related word(s) H633 esar H1881 dat H2942 teem H3791 ketav

Dt 5:1 H4941 mish-pawt’ From H8199; properly a verdict (favorable or unfavorable) pronounced judicially, especially a sentence or formal decree (human or (particularly) divine law

Ez 20:19 H4941 mish-pawt’ From H8199; properly a verdict (favorable or unfavorable) pronounced judicially, especially a sentence or formal decree (human or (particularly) divine law

Lev 19:37 H4941 mish-pawt’ From H8199; properly a verdict (favorable or unfavorable) pronounced judicially, especially a sentence or formal decree (human or (particularly) divine law

H4941 LXX related word(s) G92 adikema G226 aletheuo G746 arche G1342 dikaios G1343 dikaiosune G1345 dikaioma G1347 dikaiosis G1349 dike G1491 eidos G1785 entole G1995 epi strophe G2520 kath eko G2917 krima G2920 krisis G2922 kriterion G3551 nomos NO G1378 in LXX related words for your dogma & no H4941 in LXX related words in for G1378. Why? Becaue they do not mean the same thing. One is of divine nature, the other is man made and it was the man made that was nailed to the cross, not the divine.

who thinks we are still living under the Articles of Confederation. You are trying to live under the wrong Constitution

YHVH never changes, neither does His Torah. Yah’shua confirmed it in John 14

12 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. 13 And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask anything in My name, I will do it.

15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.... 14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Word - Davar - Yah'ahua the Word made flesh, the Word which is the Torah - The Torah is the commandments Yah'shua said to keep because they are his, he spoke no new set of commandments and you can't keep the ones in stone if you say they were nailed to the cross. Yah'shua came to give full meaning to the Torah by instructing the right way to walk in them. That is what fulfill means, it does not mean to abolish.

Most importantly, it's all about glorifying YHVH as Yah'shua instructed. It is not about Yah'shua, it's ALL about his Father & His Father's commandments that were spoken by the Word, from Genesis to Revelation.

42 posted on 11/11/2011 2:31:29 AM PST by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: pastorbillrandles

“The popularity of recent heretical books such as Love Wins, by Rob Bell, as well as the rarity of actual teaching on the fate of the wicked even among many evangelical churches have convinced me that this defection is real.”

Ever wonder why other religions don’t seem to have the same problem maintaining doctrinal purity? Satan is not concerned with the false religions of the world, ie Islam, Mormonism, Jehova Witnesses. They are just different lanes on the wide road to perdition. He targets those churches that teach that salvation comes not by a righteousness of our own, but the righteousness that comes by believing in Jesus Christ crucified for our sins and Him raised bodily from the grave. Churches that have historically taught that message are always under assault.


43 posted on 11/11/2011 8:27:31 AM PST by Augustinian monk
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