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A Presbyterian exodus over allowing openly gay to be ordained
The News Tribune ^ | 11/14/11 | STEVE MAYNARD

Posted on 11/14/2011 8:55:41 AM PST by Alex Murphy

Chapel Hill Presbyterian Church in Gig Harbor voted Sunday to leave the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), primarily because the denomination changed its constitution to allow noncelibate gay men and lesbians to be ordained as clergy and lay leaders.

With 1,660 members, Chapel Hill Presbyterian is one of the largest mainline Protestant churches in the South Sound region.

The Rev. Mark Toone, senior pastor of Chapel Hill, said his congregation reached a “tipping point” last spring when a majority of regional governing bodies, called presbyteries, voted to change the church’s ordination standards, permitting openly gay people to be ordained.

“For 30 years, we have battled over the same theological turf,” Toone told about 1,200 parishioners before Sunday’s vote. While it’s painful to leave the denomination, Toone said, “it would be more painful to remain.”

Sumner Presbyterian Church also voted Sunday to depart. Two other South Sound Presbyterian congregations, First Presbyterian of Tacoma and Evergreen Presbyterian in Graham, also decided recently to leave the denomination.

Chapel Hill members voted by written ballot whether to leave and join the smaller Evangelical Presbyterian Church. About 92 percent of the members who cast ballots voted to do so.

After dropping their ballots into purple bins following a congregational meeting, several members said they voted to leave in response to the ordination of gays and lesbians and other issues of disagreement.

“The church is being influenced by culture,” said Deanna Nilsen. “There has to come a point when we stand on the word of God.”

“It’s a mixed feeling,” said Tiersa Chaffin. “It’s bittersweet. It’s hard to separate.”

Chapel Hill prepared for the vote for seven months, studying issues and working with its regional body, the Presbytery of Olympia.

“It’s been a long process,” said Margie Doerksen. “It’s sort of a relief … to take this first step.”

Doerksen said Chapel Hill welcomes gay men and lesbians into the congregation.

“We choose not to have them in leadership because we feel that’s scripturally correct,” Doerksen said.

At 134-year-old Sumner Presbyterian, 90 percent of the members present Sunday voted to leave their denomination and join The Evangelical Covenant Church.

A “yes” vote equaling 75 percent of members present was required to proceed with leaving.

“It’s a big step to take,” said the Rev. Steve Starr, pastor of 365-member Sumner Presbyterian. In the decision to leave, he said, “I think there’s a lot of unity.”

The congregations’ advisory votes to leave are not final.

The Presbytery of Olympia is expected to vote Thursday to set up commissions that would negotiate with congregations on terms of withdrawal. Those agreements in part would address how much a congregation would pay to assume control of its land and buildings. Properties currently are held in trust by the presbytery on behalf of the denomination.

The congregations would then take another advisory vote on whether to accept the terms of withdrawal. A final vote by the presbytery could take place as early as January.

“It’s sad to see them go, but we’ll respect their process and their decisions,” said the Rev. Lynn Longfield, general presbyter of the Presbytery of Olympia.

She said four other congregations are in the process of discerning whether they want to leave the denomination.

Last spring, a nationwide vote gave presbyteries the option to ordain gay men and lesbians as clergy by removing the ordination requirement of “fidelity within the covenant of marriage between a man and a woman or chastity in singleness.”

The Presbytery of Olympia voted against the change and has not ordained gays. Congregations can now choose whether to ordain openly gay people for positions as lay leaders, called elders and deacons.

The Presbytery of Olympia includes all of Pierce and Thurston counties and extends to Woodland, north of Vancouver. It has 9,600 members in 49 congregations.

The Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), which has about 2.3 million members, joined three other denominations that permit the ordination of gays: the Episcopal Church, the United Church of Christ and the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America.


TOPICS: Mainline Protestant; Ministry/Outreach; Moral Issues; Theology
KEYWORDS: abominationtogod; fauxchristians; gaychurch; homosexualagenda; lesbyterians; pcusa
Chapel Hill Presbyterian Church in Gig Harbor voted Sunday to leave the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), primarily because the denomination changed its constitution to allow noncelibate gay men and lesbians to be ordained as clergy and lay leaders....

....The Rev. Mark Toone, senior pastor of Chapel Hill, said his congregation reached a “tipping point” last spring when a majority of regional governing bodies, called presbyteries, voted to change the church’s ordination standards, permitting openly gay people to be ordained. “For 30 years, we have battled over the same theological turf,” Toone told about 1,200 parishioners before Sunday’s vote. While it’s painful to leave the denomination, Toone said, “it would be more painful to remain.”

Sumner Presbyterian Church also voted Sunday to depart. Two other South Sound Presbyterian congregations, First Presbyterian of Tacoma and Evergreen Presbyterian in Graham, also decided recently to leave the denomination....

....The Presbytery of Olympia is expected to vote Thursday to set up commissions that would negotiate with congregations on terms of withdrawal. Those agreements in part would address how much a congregation would pay to assume control of its land and buildings. Properties currently are held in trust by the presbytery on behalf of the denomination.

The congregations would then take another advisory vote on whether to accept the terms of withdrawal. A final vote by the presbytery could take place as early as January.

1 posted on 11/14/2011 8:55:43 AM PST by Alex Murphy
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To: Alex Murphy

GOOD....sanity....finally.


2 posted on 11/14/2011 9:01:59 AM PST by goodnesswins (My Kid/Grandkids are NOT your ATM, liberals! (Sarah Palin))
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To: Alex Murphy

“There has to come a point when we stand on the word of God.”

I couldn’t have said it better! AMEN FOR JESUS!!!


3 posted on 11/14/2011 9:04:16 AM PST by BlackFemaleArmyCaptain
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To: Alex Murphy
a pair of Quantum Presbyterians leaving for a straight denomination


4 posted on 11/14/2011 9:10:24 AM PST by Vaquero ("an armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: Alex Murphy
Chapel Hill members voted by written ballot whether to leave and join the smaller Evangelical Presbyterian Church. About 92 percent of the members who cast ballots voted to do so.

With the exception of their allowance for the ordination of women, the EPC is a much better choice.

Not much to say about the other 8%

5 posted on 11/14/2011 9:13:36 AM PST by P8riot (I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop.....Eagle Scout since Sep 9, 1970)
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To: Alex Murphy

I live in the area and often wondered if that church was liberal or not. This is good news.


6 posted on 11/14/2011 9:36:44 AM PST by dragonblustar (Allah Ain't So Akbar!)
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To: Alex Murphy

The PCUSA denomination is like the liberals/Obama’s hopium, it feels good to it wears off.


7 posted on 11/14/2011 9:48:47 AM PST by ReformedBeckite (1 of 3 I'm only allowing my self each day)
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To: Alex Murphy

The PCUSA denomination is like the liberals/Obama’s hopium, it feels good to it wears off.


8 posted on 11/14/2011 9:49:38 AM PST by ReformedBeckite (1 of 3 I'm only allowing my self each day)
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To: Alex Murphy
Either you believe the word of God or you do not. Leviticus is pretty clear on the topic of sodomites.

Why even bother having a church? It's more of a Sunday meeting place for these yahoos.

9 posted on 11/14/2011 9:54:48 AM PST by apoxonu
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To: apoxonu
"Why even bother having a church? It's more of a Sunday meeting place for these yahoos."

The epistles of the NT (and Acts) support a lot of independent congregations meeting in homes and businesses to study the Scriptures and enjoy each other's fellowship. There is no indication anywhere they formed "organizations". So, just gather and study. But, the Scriptures encourage us to gather together.

10 posted on 11/14/2011 10:00:55 AM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: dragonblustar

It’s still liberal if it ordains women.


11 posted on 11/14/2011 11:02:46 AM PST by P8riot (I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop.....Eagle Scout since Sep 9, 1970)
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To: Dutchboy88
But, the Scriptures encourage us to gather together.

Agreed, but that's to "gather together" to worship God and His WORD, not to accept sin into their midst.

By allowing their ministry to have gays as ministers and laity, they're giving the big thumbs up to sodomites while thumbing their noses at God.

So why bother? They're not accepting the Gospel and they're-rewriting God's Word to mean something He did not say. In other words, they're in church - committing mortal sins.

They can do that in any back alley. No need to go to church.

12 posted on 11/14/2011 1:56:25 PM PST by apoxonu
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To: apoxonu; spankalib
"So why bother? They're not accepting the Gospel and they're-rewriting God's Word to mean something He did not say. In other words, they're in church - committing mortal sins.

They can do that in any back alley. No need to go to church."

I believe you missed my point. I am absolutely agreeing with you, there is no need to go to "church", if by "church" you mean an organization with a name, building, etc. As I have said elsewhere here at FR, there is no such word as "church" in the NT. The term used in Scripture is "ekklesia" and means simply "a gathering" or "an assembly" in the loosest sense. The organizations made themselves into "organizations"...not God.

And, yes, those who give the "big thumbs up to sodomites" should be avoided at any cost. We ought to be calling this un-biblical behavior out, walking away from gatherings which allow this, and sticking to the clear sense of the Scriptures.

But, that does not mean you should not gather with other believers who share your view.

13 posted on 11/14/2011 2:09:04 PM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: Dutchboy88

St. Paul seemed to think he had the authority to school those independent churches in the true Faith of the Church.

If there’s a hierarchy and authority, there’s organization.


14 posted on 11/14/2011 2:33:23 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: D-fendr; spankalib
"St. Paul seemed to think he had the authority to school those independent churches in the true Faith of the Church.

If there’s a hierarchy and authority, there’s organization."

Yes, of course, this is the kind of screwed up, totally propagandized muck the "Roman Catholic Church" peddles in order to keep their sheep under control. Please, please, please inform us of the passage which tells us what "organization" Paul belonged to?

15 posted on 11/14/2011 3:20:34 PM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: Dutchboy88

I believe your point was the various congregations in Acts and the Epistles were completely independent with no organization.

My point was that this is contrary to what St. Paul was doing in Scripture, exercising his authority.

Completely independent congregations are just that. Like the ones we see in this article. They take a vote and join a different organization and then another if they wish. They hold their authority independently, completely locally. Unlike the congregations we see in Holy Scripture.


16 posted on 11/14/2011 3:56:12 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: D-fendr

I repeat my question...which organization did Paul join?

Please, book, chapter, verse. Not party propaganda. Real Scripture. If you wonder why the believers in Christ hold the authority of God’s word as superior to your organization, this is precisely the answer: Your organization makes up answers.


17 posted on 11/14/2011 4:11:27 PM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: All

These people, after finishing an RCIA class are welcome to join the Catholic Church.

RCIA stands for Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults.


18 posted on 11/14/2011 4:16:15 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Dutchboy88

Why, St. Paul was a Lutheran of course.

As for the authority of God’s word, all these churches claim to have it. The newly ordained first female bishop of the Washington Diocese of the Episcopal Church claims that the gospel is clear on this in terms of accepting homosexuality, active lesbian and gay clergy and so on.

That’s what independent churches can do. They, or you, are the authority of God’s word. It says what they say it says. Unlike what St. Paul writes in his letters.


19 posted on 11/14/2011 4:19:20 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: D-fendr
Very interesting..."The newly ordained first female bishop of the Washington Diocese of the Episcopal Church"

Watch your stocking. There will be reading lessons for Christmas awaiting. Diocese implies the same kind of screwed up organization which has wrapped itself around all of the ankles in Rome. You obviously cannot catch what "independent" means.

20 posted on 11/14/2011 4:23:28 PM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: D-fendr

And, nowhere in the Scriptures is Paul called “St.” Paul. Every believer in Christ is a saint. Your gang has attempted to elevate them beyond the positions even they claimed. Tragic, but expected.


21 posted on 11/14/2011 4:25:16 PM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: Dutchboy88

Your beef seems to be with all organized religion and you posit that the early Church was not organized and did not have those in positions of authority. As we see from Acts and the Epistles, that is not the case.

There is always some authority in this area, even if it is one’s own authority, The Church of Me. The option here is not whether there is authority but where it rests.

Some, perhaps you, think it rightfully rests with each individual to determine what is the true Christian Faith from their authority and/or their authority over what Holy Scripture means (and even what is to be included in the canon of Holy Scripture.)

As we see in his exhortations in his epistles to those independent-minded congregations and individuals, this is not the view of St. Paul.


22 posted on 11/14/2011 5:12:06 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: Alex Murphy
Doerksen said Chapel Hill welcomes gay men and lesbians into the congregation.

“We choose not to have them in leadership because we feel that’s scripturally correct,” Doerksen said.

That statement needs a whole load of clarification to be meaningful. What does "gay" mean to them? Openly, unrepentant, practicing homosexuals? If so, they are no better than the PCUSA as it now stands.

Barring openly homosexual men from leadership positions means nothing if they tolerate it anywhere in their ranks.

23 posted on 11/14/2011 5:30:54 PM PST by fwdude ("When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve ...")
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To: Dutchboy88

Not only that, but according to modern Catholicism, there is virtually no one on earth who attains “sainthood” anymore. It is purely a state that is reached after death and purgatory.


24 posted on 11/14/2011 5:33:52 PM PST by fwdude ("When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve ...")
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To: P8riot
"It’s still liberal if it ordains women"

Do you have a scripture that says women can not be priest?

25 posted on 11/14/2011 8:12:13 PM PST by guitarplayer1953 (Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to GOD! Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Alex Murphy

good, the death of these Calvinist pervert groups


26 posted on 11/15/2011 2:05:25 AM PST by Cronos (Nuke Mecca and Medina now..)
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To: guitarplayer1953

1 Cor. 14:34,35 for starters


27 posted on 11/15/2011 6:51:22 AM PST by P8riot (I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop.....Eagle Scout since Sep 9, 1970)
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To: Cronos

Oh sure ding the Calvinists. There is just as much perversity in the Catholic Church, every other mainline denominations, and pseudo Christian churches as well (LDS anyone?). I’ll let you in on a secret, no one is immune to sin, we are steeped in it. It is only through the blood of Christ that we can overcome it.


28 posted on 11/15/2011 7:02:49 AM PST by P8riot (I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop.....Eagle Scout since Sep 9, 1970)
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To: Alex Murphy
Since I live in the Pacific N.W., Seattle to be specific, and am a Presbyterian USA member for over 60 years,I take this news very seriously. Seattle is very liberal, the University Presbyterian Church, which is perhaps the largest church in Seattle, and the First Presbyterian Church, which is the Presbyterian historical mother church, probably will not change, but, I can't help but think, when you get out into the outlying areas of the N.W., the communities are far more politically conservative and will not tolerate gay clergy. I think the Presbyterian Church USA is in deep trouble, they will be loosing churches all across America, particularly in rural and more conservative urban areas. This is not just the beginning, we are hearing more and more of this happening. It is a fact that the Presbyterian Church USA is loosing membership while at the same time it has been reported the Presbyterian Church America is one of the fastest growing churches in the country, I wonder why? I can't dispute this fact as we have several PCA churches newly sprouting up in Seattle, in fact we have one right here in walking distance to our home, Grace Church, which is leasing out the sanctuary of local Seventh Day Adventists. The Adventists use their church on Saturday, Grace Church uses the building on Sunday. (One encouraging note; one of our pastors told me that it was up to the individual churches to decide whether or not they wanted a gay clergy. A gay minister will not be forced upon them. So if the church I attend votes to have a gay minister, I’m gone, after attending for over 60 years.)
29 posted on 11/15/2011 7:04:35 AM PST by Vinylly
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To: D-fendr; spankalib
"Your beef seems to be with all organized religion and you posit that the early Church was not organized and did not have those in positions of authority. As we see from Acts and the Epistles, that is not the case.

There is always some authority in this area, even if it is one’s own authority, The Church of Me. The option here is not whether there is authority but where it rests.

Some, perhaps you, think it rightfully rests with each individual to determine what is the true Christian Faith from their authority and/or their authority over what Holy Scripture means (and even what is to be included in the canon of Holy Scripture.)

As we see in his exhortations in his epistles to those independent-minded congregations and individuals, this is not the view of St. Paul."

There is so much error here, it is too much to handle all in one post. However, I will take a bit at a time.

First, I was unaware that you had the gift of mind-reading, or that it was to be exercised here. I have no beef with anyone or anything. I simply wish to point out error when I come across it.

Second, error is replete in organizations which attempt to hijack Christ's assembly and name it for themselves. This goes for all of the "organizations", but is perhaps most obvious in the big Roman debacle and the large, liberal Protestant kluges. Does error ever occur in independent groups? Of course. Men are broken and tend toward error. But, the Scriptures tell all men to examine the text, compare it to what is being taught, and avoid that which does not comport.

Third, you have confused the rejection of error with a rejection of authority. Every believer is called to submit to those gifted to lead their local gathering. Small, independent congregations can, and do, however, sift out the error quicker than large bodies saddled with massive inertia. Witness this gigantus "ordaining" homosexuals. Small gatherings would (if they were biblically based) simply ask the nut-ball that suggested this to leave (I Cor.).

Fourth, the authority rests with the Scriptures, not with any one man. We are all charged with understanding what that text says. And, everyone has to interpret what they are confronted wtih. So, don't pull the "Church of Me" routine...everyone does this whether they realize it or not. If a man tells you, "Mary is a co-redemptrix with Jesus." you are compelled to ask yourself, "Self, what does this man mean?" You are interpreting the words of your so-called "authority". You must take in the input and decide what it means. The question is...what is that authority? That is the nature of living.

Fifth, don't give us the "we gave you Scripture" routine, either. The Scriptures were identified by thousands of believers long before there was a coup by Rome, a hijacking by some bathrobed, power-hungry, self-appointed, self-aggrandizing blowhards in Rome. If you cannot see this, you have been smoking too much Roman rope.

Sixth, the unity of the body of believers around the world is found in Christ, managed by His Spirit, not some goofy clan from the Vatican. We never needed a central human authority, it is not described anywhere in Scripture. Your crowd made this up by wishful thinking, the worst of deductive thinking. Paul (not St. Paul) did not belong to an organization and simply told Timothy to identify local men who could teach others to teach others. So it has gone on without the help of (or need for) Rome for nearly two thousand years.

I have to get to work, or I would continue.

30 posted on 11/15/2011 7:14:01 AM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: fwdude
"Not only that, but according to modern Catholicism, there is virtually no one on earth who attains “sainthood” anymore. It is purely a state that is reached after death and purgatory."

All of this doctrinal error is fabricated by Rome. Every believer is called a "saint", a holy one of God. There is no super-status, no inner circle and certainly no one elevated by an organization. More man-made theology.

31 posted on 11/15/2011 7:55:26 AM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: Dutchboy88
"I have to get to work, or I would continue."

So what exactly is a "Dutchboy", anyway? The Urban Dictionary defines it as a man with many lesbian friends. Are any of yours pastors?

32 posted on 11/15/2011 12:57:13 PM PST by Natural Law (If you love the Catholic Church raise your hands, if not raise your standards.)
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To: Dutchboy88
Thanks for your reply.

Inferring from your post, i still think you do have a problem with authority in this matter. Unless the authority is every person, which reduces to yourself for yourself.

Fourth, the authority rests with the Scriptures, not with any one man.

Scripture cannot be put on the stand and asked: "Which of us is right on what the text says?"

In reality, you have: I say (scripture agrees with me)/You say (scripture agrees with you) unless you recognize an authority outside scripture and outside yourself.

We are all charged with understanding what that text says. And, everyone has to interpret what they are confronted wtih. So, again, you are the authority. This eliminates any problems with other authority, but results in a plethora of meanings all claiming validity via the Holy Spirit - a statement that is self-contradicting. All cannot be true and different at the same time.

So, don't pull the "Church of Me" routine...

If you are the authority determining the meaning of scripture, you have taken on the authority of the Church. In this sense, you are The Church of Me.

everyone does this whether they realize it or not

I think so too, at least for some parts of Holy Scripture. The difference is whether they consider themselves to be the final authority or the Church on areas where the interpretations differ or they accept the authority of the Church.

33 posted on 11/15/2011 1:32:06 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: Natural Law; Dr. Eckleburg; Forest Keeper; Gamecock; RnMomof7; HarleyD; fish hawk; Alex Murphy; ...
"So what exactly is a "Dutchboy", anyway? The Urban Dictionary defines it as a man with many lesbian friends. Are any of yours pastors?"

Evidently, the Roman line is becoming so broken its constituents must rely upon debased filth in order to argue. We invite you to swim back over the polluted water of the Tiber, leave the clutches of Rome, cling to Jesus alone...if He allows you.

34 posted on 11/15/2011 1:35:24 PM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: Dutchboy88
So I take it that is a yes.
35 posted on 11/15/2011 1:36:46 PM PST by Natural Law (If you love the Catholic Church raise your hands, if not raise your standards.)
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To: Natural Law

No, my FRiend, you may take that as a no. But, your odd remarks appear as evidence that the vile, debauched mindset of Rome has captured your thinking. Read your own posts. Is this the Gospel of Jesus Christ? If you believe it so, then darkness has overwhelmed you. Please reconsider such remarks.


36 posted on 11/15/2011 1:49:34 PM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: Dutchboy88
"But, your odd remarks appear as evidence that the vile, debauched mindset of Rome has captured your thinking."

No, my FRiend,I am able to differentiate between your comments and those of good and decent Protestants. I merely responded in kind to the contemptible comments you made about the Church with relatively lesser comments about the originator. Glass houses and all of that.......

37 posted on 11/15/2011 2:00:26 PM PST by Natural Law (If you love the Catholic Church raise your hands, if not raise your standards.)
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To: Natural Law

Yes, now I suppose I can understand the connection between lesbians and Rome encouraging you to speak thus.


38 posted on 11/15/2011 2:10:08 PM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: Dutchboy88

Interesting discussion that I was pinged to here ... uh, thanks...I guess.

Matthew 19: 11-12

I think that clears up, for me, how Jesus would feel.

If you’re looking to have a church that has no sinners in the pews ... good luck with that!

I personally believe that God doesn’t make mistakes and, you know, I believe that some people are born gay. We also have people born hermaphrodite...so we have to introspect about whether or not they are welcome in Jesus’ congregation. I believe they are.


39 posted on 11/15/2011 2:27:18 PM PST by Winstons Julia (Hello OWS? We don't need a revolution like China's; China needs a revolution like OURS.)
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To: Winstons Julia
"I personally believe that God doesn’t make mistakes and, you know, I believe that some people are born gay. We also have people born hermaphrodite...so we have to introspect about whether or not they are welcome in Jesus’ congregation. I believe they are."

With all due respect, while your compassion is commendable, hermeneutics would lead one to an alternate conclusion.

40 posted on 11/15/2011 2:49:20 PM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: Dutchboy88

Hermeneutics being somewhat inscrutable ... and you must admit that ... I disagree with you.

There’s also Galatians 3:28 to consider.

Honestly, I don’t know what prompted the ping to this thread. Perhaps you expected me to say something other than my belief?


41 posted on 11/15/2011 2:53:07 PM PST by Winstons Julia (Hello OWS? We don't need a revolution like China's; China needs a revolution like OURS.)
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To: Dutchboy88
Please, please, please inform us of the passage which tells us what "organization" Paul belonged to?

but if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. -- 1 Tim 3:15
There's your answer.
42 posted on 11/15/2011 2:59:07 PM PST by Campion ("It is in the religion of ignorance that tyranny begins." -- Franklin)
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To: Alex Murphy
With 1,660 members, Chapel Hill Presbyterian is one of the largest mainline Protestant churches in the South Sound region.

The PCUSA is, what, 2 million members now? This is almost a full percent loss, all by itself.

43 posted on 11/15/2011 3:29:28 PM PST by Lee N. Field ("You fool! Don't you know every Taurus purchased brings us closer to TEOTWAWKI?")
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To: Campion
"but if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. -- 1 Tim 3:15"

So, according to the Scriptures Paul belonged to no organization, but just to the church of the Living God? Yes, of course, that is true. Notice, no Roman Catholic Church, no Roman anything, no organization. Thank you for the support.

44 posted on 11/15/2011 4:15:45 PM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: Lee N. Field
"This is almost a full percent loss, all by itself."

).083%

45 posted on 11/15/2011 5:04:04 PM PST by Natural Law (If you love the Catholic Church raise your hands, if not raise your standards.)
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To: Natural Law

doh!


46 posted on 11/15/2011 6:28:00 PM PST by Lee N. Field ("You fool! Don't you know every Taurus purchased brings us closer to TEOTWAWKI?")
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To: Dutchboy88

Standard M.O. among the most rabid of FRoman Catholics.


47 posted on 11/15/2011 6:31:56 PM PST by Gamecock (I am so thankful for [the] active obedience of Christ. No hope without it. JGM)
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