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O.C. Catholic diocese to buy bankrupt Crystal Cathedral (it's official!)
LA Times ^ | November 18, 2011 | Nicole Santa Cruz

Posted on 11/18/2011 6:11:59 AM PST by NYer

An Orange County bankruptcy judge ruled Thursday that the Crystal Cathedral, a monument to modernism in faith and architecture, will be sold for $57.5 million to the Roman Catholic Diocese of Orange, which plans to consecrate it as a Catholic cathedral.

The ruling was a blow to Chapman University, which had fought bitterly down to the final moments of the bankruptcy case for the right to buy the property as a satellite campus.

It also marked the end of a remarkable chapter in the history of American Christianity, one that was written in glass and steel by the Crystal Cathedral's founder and guiding light, the Rev. Robert H. Schuller.

In a day filled with drama and deep emotion, Chapman had pressed its case with a newly escalated bid of $59 million, only to complain that it had been blindsided by the Crystal Cathedral board, which came down firmly on the side of the Catholic Church.

In the end, Schuller himself gave his blessing to what once would have seemed unthinkable: the conversion of his sleekly modern masterpiece in Garden Grove, a place where fresh breezes blow through open walls and church services feature talk-show-style interviews, into a Catholic cathedral redolent of incense and ancient ritual.

In a letter to the court, the 85-year-old minister said he could not abide the thought that Chapman might someday use the cathedral for nonreligious purposes. Catholic leaders assured him, he said, that they would "take on your calling of proclaiming Christ's message to humanity" and "care for this campus like the treasure it is."


(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Worship
KEYWORDS: california; catholicism; churches; religion; schuller
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1 posted on 11/18/2011 6:12:01 AM PST by NYer
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To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; SumProVita; ...
"I only have one word to say and that's 'devastated,' " said the Rev. James Richards, who has volunteered at the Crystal Cathedral for 10 years. He said congregants want to continue to worship in their church.

They are more than welcome to stay!

2 posted on 11/18/2011 6:12:55 AM PST by NYer ("Be kind to every person you meet. For every person is fighting a great battle." St. Ephraim)
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To: NYer

So the so-called “Crystal Cathedral” is about to become a real cathedral.


3 posted on 11/18/2011 6:16:38 AM PST by Fiji Hill
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To: NYer

I’m surprised they had the money to buy it with all the sex abuse settlements the church has been paying out lately...

For example, a $100 million judgment was just issued last week.

Fla. jury awards $100M against Roman Catholic priest in sex abuse case
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/on-faith/fla-jury-awards-100m-against-roman-catholic-priest-in-sex-abuse-case/2011/11/10/gIQA64YW9M_story.html


4 posted on 11/18/2011 6:18:14 AM PST by TSgt (whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive...it is the Right of the People to abolish it.)
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To: NYer
In a letter to the court, the 85-year-old minister [Schuller] said he could not abide the thought that Chapman might someday use the cathedral for nonreligious purposes. Catholic leaders assured him, he said, that they would "take on your calling of proclaiming Christ's message to humanity" and "care for this campus like the treasure it is."

Interesting that the Calvinist Rev. Schuller would side with the Catholic diocese over the Protestant school.

5 posted on 11/18/2011 6:20:42 AM PST by iowamark (Rick Perry says I'm heartless.)
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To: NYer
will be sold for $57.5 million to the Roman Catholic Diocese of Orange
I have six ancestors who were buried in an unmarked grave over 125 years ago in Calvary Cemetery (NYC).
When I asked the church (St Patrick's) how to go about putting up a headstone, I was told I first had to pay over $1200 in past due maintenance fees.
You don't want to know what I told them to do with their fees.
6 posted on 11/18/2011 6:36:36 AM PST by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: TSgt

They don’t. They are borrowing the money, at least some of it.


7 posted on 11/18/2011 6:40:27 AM PST by SoCal Pubbie
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To: NYer
Can Crystal Cathedral survive without its church?
When Catholics talk of "the church," they don't mean a building. But for many congregants at the Crystal Cathedral, the church building designed by renowned architect Philip Johnson and made up of 10,000 panes of glass has become intertwined with the church's identity...

"The Crystal Cathedral is the face of the ministry to the world," said Michael Nason, a church member for 39 years and past producer of the "Hour of Power." "If you take it somewhere else, down to St. Callistus, it doesn't have the same experience."

8 posted on 11/18/2011 6:41:33 AM PST by iowamark (Rick Perry says I'm heartless.)
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To: NYer

Can we rent it out to the Church of Scientology or someone?


9 posted on 11/18/2011 6:45:37 AM PST by marshmallow (.)
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To: NYer
In the end, Schuller himself gave his blessing to what once would have seemed unthinkable: the conversion of his sleekly modern masterpiece in Garden Grove, a place where fresh breezes blow through open walls and church services feature talk-show-style interviews, into a Catholic cathedral redolent of incense and ancient ritual.

(*wry look*) Apparently, the author isn't very familiar with the Catholic dioceses in California; "redolent of incense and ancient ritual" isn't exactly the phrase that comes to mind. Giant puppet "Masses", heretic guest speakers, and other heterodox eye-candy are all closer to the mark. No faithful and well-informed Catholic would want to do anything to the "crystal cathedral" but demolish and bull-doze it (and perhaps salt the ground, afterward).
10 posted on 11/18/2011 6:46:07 AM PST by paladinan (Rule #1: There is a God. Rule #2: It isn't you.)
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To: NYer

How cool.


11 posted on 11/18/2011 6:49:09 AM PST by tioga
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To: oh8eleven
I have six ancestors who were buried in an unmarked grave over 125 years ago in Calvary Cemetery (NYC). When I asked the church (St Patrick's) how to go about putting up a headstone, I was told I first had to pay over $1200 in past due maintenance fees.

It is already remarkable that your relatives have been left undisturbed for so long without a marker. The fee quoted is about $10/annum; that works out to be $1.66 per family member, annually. What a bargain!

How do you suppose the cemetery covers the costs of grounds maintenance?

12 posted on 11/18/2011 6:54:25 AM PST by NYer ("Be kind to every person you meet. For every person is fighting a great battle." St. Ephraim)
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To: NYer

At least the RC Church will save this as a Cathedral.


13 posted on 11/18/2011 6:59:22 AM PST by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: iowamark
In a letter to the court, the 85-year-old minister [Schuller] said he could not abide the thought that Chapman might someday use the cathedral for nonreligious purposes. Catholic leaders assured him, he said, that they would "take on your calling of proclaiming Christ's message to humanity" and "care for this campus like the treasure it is."

Interesting that the Calvinist Rev. Schuller would side with the Catholic diocese over the Protestant school.

If you think Schuller is Calvinist, we've got some more properties to sell you.

14 posted on 11/18/2011 6:59:46 AM PST by Alex Murphy (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2703506/posts?page=518#518)
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To: paladinan

“In the end, Schuller himself gave his blessing to what once would have seemed unthinkable: the conversion of his sleekly modern masterpiece in Garden Grove, a place where fresh breezes blow through open walls and church services feature talk-show-style interviews, into a Catholic cathedral redolent of incense and ancient ritual.

(*wry look*) Apparently, the author isn’t very familiar with the Catholic dioceses in California; “redolent of incense and ancient ritual” isn’t exactly the phrase that comes to mind. Giant puppet “Masses”, heretic guest speakers, and other heterodox eye-candy are all closer to the mark. No faithful and well-informed Catholic would want to do anything to the “crystal cathedral” but demolish and bull-doze it (and perhaps salt the ground, afterward).”

Take confort, when this coming Advent starts, and with the new English Roman Missal going to effect, look for spiritual change for the better.


15 posted on 11/18/2011 7:02:30 AM PST by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: Alex Murphy
If you think Schuller is Calvinist, we've got some more properties to sell you.

LOL! I was thinking the same thing!

Schuller preached the unbiblical prosperity gospel.
16 posted on 11/18/2011 7:05:19 AM PST by TSgt (whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive...it is the Right of the People to abolish it.)
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Comment #17 Removed by Moderator

To: None
It didn't help that the Schullers appeared tone deaf at times to their own lives of apparent privilege, as when the church recently asked for food donations for Schuller's ailing wife — and said the items would be delivered to her in a limousine.

"I mean, how out of touch can you possibly be?" asked Richard Flory, director of research in the USC Center for Religion and Civic Culture. "If you're part of that congregation, at what point does this person or family start bringing more problems to us as a congregation than benefit?"

18 posted on 11/18/2011 7:12:05 AM PST by RBIEL2
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To: NYer

“They are more than welcome to stay!”

Amen! ;-)


19 posted on 11/18/2011 7:18:18 AM PST by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo...Sum Pro Vita. (Modified Decartes))
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To: oh8eleven

Spiritually rich....you are so correct! ;-)))


20 posted on 11/18/2011 7:21:25 AM PST by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo...Sum Pro Vita. (Modified Decartes))
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To: oh8eleven
...maybe the cemetery could ask the richest man in the world ...

It's a shame you're not the Pope... cause you'd know how to get jiggy wid all dat bling.

21 posted on 11/18/2011 7:24:55 AM PST by RingerSIX (My wife and I took an AIDS vaccine that they offer down at our Church.)
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To: oh8eleven; NYer
"How does the cemetery cover the costs of grounds maintenance?"

What great retorts! Jewels of lucid argumentation! (Reachinbg for a kleenex to wipe off the spittle...)

22 posted on 11/18/2011 7:31:55 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Keeping an eye on this one.)
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To: NYer; xsmommy
An Orange County bankruptcy judge ruled Thursday that the Crystal Cathedral, a monument to modernism in faith and architecture,

Accidental truth in journalism.

23 posted on 11/18/2011 7:37:31 AM PST by NeoCaveman (Free TOTUS)
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To: Pan_Yans Wife

Ping. I don’t have a cohesive opinion on this one.


24 posted on 11/18/2011 7:43:34 AM PST by Pan_Yan
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To: NYer
written in glass and steel by the Crystal Cathedral's founder and guiding light, the Rev. Robert H. Schuller.

Actually it was written in glass and steel by a lot of little old ladies with check books (like my mom).

25 posted on 11/18/2011 7:56:33 AM PST by DManA
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To: NYer

Where are the “ugly church architecture” crew?


26 posted on 11/18/2011 7:57:33 AM PST by DManA
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To: NYer

Didn’t the bishop of Orange, Tod Brown, just turn 75 a couple of days ago? Shouldn’t his successor get to decide if the diocese should go deeply into debt to buy this glass-encased tribute to ugliness?


27 posted on 11/18/2011 8:37:59 AM PST by Campion ("It is in the religion of ignorance that tyranny begins." -- Franklin)
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To: NYer

Hey Nyer i tell you one thing Cathoic in OC dirocse got this property as bargain steal be honest land is worth more than Crystal Catherial

I wonder if they going do something about it like remodel or something


28 posted on 11/18/2011 9:27:15 AM PST by SevenofNine (We are Freepers, all your media belong to us ,resistance is futile)
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To: NYer
They are beautiful buildings, modern-style.

They are sure nicer than the modern Catholic Churches, as I was used to all Catholic Churches looking like an Italian Catholic Church.
The modern/newer Catholic Churches are so modern you can't tell who Jesus is, who Mary might be and what all the artistic squiggles, slashes and dashes might be. As for a crucifix, not a chance. Tabernacle, maybe, stuck over to the traditional Mary-side of the altar.

These magnificent buildings WILL improve once they have a Cross on/in/around them.

Besides, the irony of it all is amusing.

29 posted on 11/18/2011 10:46:38 AM PST by cloudmountain
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To: TSgt
Read the article. The church isn't paying a dime, it was dismissed. The claim is 30 years old.

And that's in Florida, anyhow, but I guess you just couldn't resist coming on a thread about a cathedral in California just to deposit something in the punchbowl.

30 posted on 11/18/2011 10:53:19 AM PST by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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Comment #31 Removed by Moderator

To: paladinan
I don't know if it's as bad as all that.

Nothing in California is going to be a classic edifice along the lines of St. Vibiana's -- spurned by Mahoney and his ilk.

Renovating this structure will be much cheaper than new construction.

Also, if you look past all the bling and the seating arrangements, and study the floor plan, the building is actually a cruciform design. It could be made to work.

32 posted on 11/18/2011 11:06:47 AM PST by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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Comment #33 Removed by Moderator

To: oh8eleven; NYer
First of all, if the Church hadn't spent millions and millions of dollars paying off victims of the homo-priests, it wouldn't be an issue.

Actually, that's billions. $3,236,497,222 in the U.S. alone.
34 posted on 11/18/2011 12:04:53 PM PST by TSgt (whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive...it is the Right of the People to abolish it.)
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To: TSgt
That said, the church is about $3 BILLION in the hole for judgments and settlements related to sex abuse. $3,236,497,222 to be exact.

How much of that belongs to the diocese of Orange? They're the ones actually buying the church.

The US has $15 trillion dollars worth of public debt but that doesn't mean that Fulton County in Atlanta can't spend any money.

Get it?

35 posted on 11/18/2011 12:28:12 PM PST by marshmallow (.)
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To: TSgt
How are they not living up to their obligations? Are they not entitled to the protection of the law against stale claims? Statutes of limitation apply to everyone, and there's a reason -- when 3-4 decades have passed there is no proof one way or the other.

Given the time-honored practice of jackleg lawyers descending on politically convenient defendants, there's a good chance many if not most of these late-filed claims are bogus. That's certainly the case with any other large enterprise with perceived deep pockets. Just ask Coca-Cola about the mouse in the bottle cases.

36 posted on 11/18/2011 12:44:08 PM PST by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: oh8eleven; SumProVita; Mrs. Don-o
But to answer your question - maybe the cemetery could ask the richest man in the world ...

Thank you for posting such a lovely photo of Benedict XVI. The pope is rich - in virtue. However, he has no physical wealth. When Pope JPII passed away, the media anxiously awaited the reading of his Last Will and Testament. Ir reads, in part:

I leave no property behind me of which it is necessary to dispose. Regarding those items of daily use of which I made use, I ask that they be distributed as may appear opportune.

What a disappointment to so many who subscribe to the notion of Vatican wealth. Everything the pope uses is on loan. It is not his to possess. The same is true of the rich Vatican artifacts. They are considered the patrimony of mankind, entrusted to the Vatican for safekeeping, and cannot be sold or borrowed against. Indeed, the Vatican values them at one euro each for purposes of internal bookkeeping and spends a great deal of money to preserve the treasures for future generations.

If such treasures were sold and the money given to the poor, that money would soon be gone and mankind would be culturally impoverished by the loss of such artifacts into private hands. Besides, it is not offensive to religious sensibilities for a Church to maintain such beautiful treasures for the glory of God. If the Temple in Jerusalem could be richly ordained in order to glorify God and to inspire human worship, the universal Church of God can be richly ordained for the same purposes.

You are most blessed in that a parish to which you do not belong (hence, contribute nothing), has maintained the graves of your 6 relatives, undisturbed, for 125 years.

37 posted on 11/18/2011 1:58:22 PM PST by NYer ("Be kind to every person you meet. For every person is fighting a great battle." St. Ephraim)
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To: oh8eleven

>>When I asked the church (St Patrick’s) how to go about putting up a headstone, I was told I first had to pay over $1200 in past due maintenance fees.<<

I have my parent buried in a Catholic Cemetery in Cleveland. I’ve NEVER paid a maintenance fee.

Have you contacted the diocese instead?


38 posted on 11/18/2011 2:31:20 PM PST by netmilsmom (Happiness is a choice)
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To: NYer; oh8eleven; Mrs. Don-o

And, if I remember correctly, Pope John Paul II slept in a room with little more than the bare necessities....almost the same type of room referred to as a “cell” in convents and monasteries.

The building itself where this was located was old and in a pretty bad state of disrepair. I think it has been repaired since Papa Benedict was elected....but it is certainly NOT lavish.


39 posted on 11/18/2011 3:11:47 PM PST by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo...Sum Pro Vita. (Modified Decartes))
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To: Biggirl

“At least the RC Church will save this as a Cathedral.”

Very true. Thankfully the muslims won’t be able to turn this icon of Christianity in America into a mosque.


40 posted on 11/18/2011 3:59:06 PM PST by bobjam
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To: netmilsmom
Have you contacted the diocese instead?
The cemetery is owned and maintained by the The Trustees of Saint Patrick's Cathedral - who made the request for the $1200.
My guess is they and the diocese are one and the same.
BTW, I have three other ancestors in a common Calvary grave - with a headstone - but only one name is listed on the stone.
My request to have two additional names added to the headstone was met with the same demand - $1200 past due maintenance fees or no new names.
41 posted on 11/18/2011 4:20:56 PM PST by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: oh8eleven

>>My guess is they and the diocese are one and the same.<<

Did they explain to you what the “past due maintenance fees” were for? And who contracted for those fees? What member of your family agreed to this? Who bought the plot? Are you asking to carve into an original stone? You understand that ANY cemetery which has been deemed a historical landmark, is not just going to let you carve into stones, right?


42 posted on 11/18/2011 6:18:24 PM PST by netmilsmom (Happiness is a choice)
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To: NYer

Quiz: He was a strong influence on the Crystal Cathedral and its founder, and they erected a statue there in his honor. Who was he? Click here for the surprising answer...

http://archbishopfultonsheencentre.com/Statue%20at%20Crystal%20Cathedral.jpg

http://www.sfdsnyc.org/?p=2839

Sheen I: An anecdote about Robert Schuller and Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen...


43 posted on 11/18/2011 6:28:30 PM PST by Not gonna take it anymore (Member of the First Church of Christ, I am Catholic)
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To: oh8eleven

Yeah! He is always at “Studio 54” hanging out with the “it” people. Boozing it up. Instead of Helping an organization that feeds and heals more people than any other organization.


44 posted on 11/18/2011 10:07:50 PM PST by johngrace (1 John 4!- declared at every Sunday Mass.)
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To: netmilsmom

I think he is talking about NYC 5 boroughs. It is all unionized. Does not mean all places do the same.


45 posted on 11/18/2011 10:13:38 PM PST by johngrace (1 John 4!- declared at every Sunday Mass.)
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To: NYer
He should of gave the church to his son. He is more conservative. His son quoted the bible too much. Senior thought people should not have too much verses in a service. So now the Catholic bible reading everyday.

Protestant do not have same amount of services like Catholic. We have Mass everyday. Senior knows how dedicated Catholics are for everyday service.

46 posted on 11/18/2011 10:25:33 PM PST by johngrace (1 John 4!- declared at every Sunday Mass.)
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To: Campion

Matter of taste, bit I think it is much better than the LA Cathedral.


47 posted on 11/18/2011 10:59:21 PM PST by RobbyS (Viva Christus Rex.)
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To: Not gonna take it anymore

Did not know that, thanks.

Freegards


48 posted on 11/19/2011 6:33:48 AM PST by Ransomed
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To: Ransomed

I didn’t know either. Amazing how things work out, isn’t it?


49 posted on 11/19/2011 3:07:23 PM PST by Not gonna take it anymore (Member of the First Church of Christ, I am Catholic)
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To: Not gonna take it anymore

I was not Catholic as a child but, my brother and I watched Bishop Sheen every week.

What a wonderful communicator he was. And even though I am the only Catholic in my family, my brother still appreciates Bishop Sheen’s message.


50 posted on 11/19/2011 3:14:24 PM PST by Not gonna take it anymore (Member of the First Church of Christ, I am Catholic)
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