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The king of the bibles
The Telegraph ^ | November 14, 2011 | Peter Mullen

Posted on 11/18/2011 9:49:29 PM PST by hiho hiho

For centuries, people of all walks of life have carried around with them echoes of the King James Version. So to throw it out as the church hierarchy has done amounts to a savage act of deprivation and, as this deprivation is of the Word of God in English, it is vicious iconoclasm. Sidelining the King James Version especially deprives our children and is therefore a notable case of child abuse.

There is no such thing as noble truth expressed in ignoble words. The choice of words determines what is being said. Therefore, we should choose the best.

“Strips of cloth” is no substitute for “swaddling clothes”. And Mary was “with child” – we think of the Madonna and Child – and she had not “fallen pregnant” as it says in one of the modern versions. You cannot satisfactorily replace “through a glass darkly” with the crass literalism “puzzling reflections in a mirror” or “sounding brass and tinkling cymbal” with “noisy gong and clanging cymbal”. The King James Bible was designed to be read aloud in churches. All the modern versions sound as if they have been written by tone-deaf people with tin ears and no rhythm.

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: General Discusssion; History; Worship
KEYWORDS: bible; bibles; bibletranslation; bibletranslations; britain; britishempire; christianity; kingjames; kingjamesversion; kjv; kjvbible; kjvbibletranslation; kjvtranslation; kjvversion; mullen; petermullen; uk; unitedkingdom
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An excellent article -- unfortunately highly excerpted per list rules -- read the entire article at the link.

"How hypocritical and sordid of the church authorities relentlessly to suppress the KJV, only to take it out and gawp at it in an anniversary year, as if it were a museum piece and we were all blundering tourists. The proper place for the KJV is on the lectern in every parish church – to be read, marked, learnt and inwardly digested, week in, week out."

1 posted on 11/18/2011 9:49:31 PM PST by hiho hiho
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To: hiho hiho

Thank you for posting!


2 posted on 11/18/2011 9:56:08 PM PST by fortheDeclaration (All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Burke)
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To: hiho hiho

The KJV is what many people were raised on, then they switched to modern versions. When many people pray, they revert to the 16th century English language as it is considered a religious language.
I pointed out in another thread that in the movie THE BIBLE, filmed in ROME, they speak KJV English, and in LAWRENCE OF ARABIA an imman quotes koranic verses in 16th century English.


3 posted on 11/18/2011 9:57:43 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: hiho hiho

And you have Strong’s and Young’s Hebrew and Greek concordances to clear up any KJV language issues.


4 posted on 11/18/2011 10:00:13 PM PST by UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide (REPEAL WASHINGTON! -- Islam Delenda Est! -- I Want Constantinople Back. -- Rumble thee forth.)
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To: hiho hiho

The King James Bible is one of the greatest accomplishments of the British empire.


5 posted on 11/18/2011 10:01:40 PM PST by NEWwoman (God Bless America)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
When many people pray, they revert to the 16th century English language as it is considered a respectful language.
6 posted on 11/18/2011 10:07:13 PM PST by hiho hiho
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To: NEWwoman

The Kings English - 100 phrases in 3 Minutes
http://youtu.be/xQVbBjgBS6A


7 posted on 11/18/2011 10:12:16 PM PST by hiho hiho
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To: NEWwoman

The King James Bible - The History of English
http://youtu.be/kN7-EvgKAsk


8 posted on 11/18/2011 10:15:49 PM PST by hiho hiho
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To: hiho hiho

Save for later.


9 posted on 11/18/2011 10:17:36 PM PST by Lauren BaRecall (Boehner, you deal making THUG B@st@rd!)
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To: hiho hiho

This is an interesting website that supports the KJV Bible:

http://www.trinitarianbiblesociety.org/


10 posted on 11/18/2011 10:29:07 PM PST by ReformationFan
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To: hiho hiho

I Was saved by the words of John as interpreted by the NIV... But as I have grown in faith, it is the KJV which shows me more meat than milk.


11 posted on 11/18/2011 10:39:25 PM PST by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: hiho hiho
Have to disagree with his ire. Although I do keep a KJV so that I can cross reference the scripture with my Strong's Concordance, I favor the NIV (conspicuously not mentioned in his comparisons). It is a very good translation done by excellent scholarship with the advantage of more manuscripts, better textual criticism, and a better understanding of the original language than was available when the KJV was translated.

I presume the author is aware the bible was originally in Hebrew, Greek, with a little in Aramaic....but the tone of his article implies he thought it written in the Kings English (or Latin at least).

12 posted on 11/18/2011 10:54:25 PM PST by AndyTheBear
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To: hiho hiho

Bookmark


13 posted on 11/18/2011 10:56:06 PM PST by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: hiho hiho

Yes, it’s seen as more formal, which is by nature more respectful. In other languages, you sometimes have formalized speech as an integral part of the language, while in English we don’t really have that, so I think that is why many prefer to revert to the antiquated speech as a substitute.


14 posted on 11/18/2011 11:03:35 PM PST by Boogieman
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To: UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide
I'm not familiar with Strong’s and Young’s Hebrew and Greek concordances but in the synagogue we use the Jewish Publication Society 1917 english translation which is very similar to the King James version and of course we constantly study and refer back to the Hebrew Tanach. I agree, the King James version is quite superior to any of the modern translations and it is kind of insulting to the reader to assume he is too stupid to understand the beautiful language of the King James translation. I understand there is a more recent JPS translation than the 1917 translation but it too is quite close to the King James translation. I don't think the Jewish Publication Society will ever be so foolish as to publish a translation similar to these ridiculous modern PC translations. They know we aren't stupid.

By the way I learned the other day how the verses and chapters in the King James version got numbered. They are numbered the same way in the KJV and the JPS translations, so you don't even notice as you go from one to the other. It was the Christians who long ago went through the King James translation and numbered the verses and divided it into chapters and the Jews numbered their copies the same way so they could refer to the verses by number in their discussions. There sre no punctuation marks in Hebrew so they had to add them to the english.

I think we will keep using the King James translation for a long time and these ridiculous new translations will die out.

The Catholics have other translation like the Vulgate in Latin but I'm not familiar with them.

15 posted on 11/18/2011 11:08:29 PM PST by tommix2
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To: AndyTheBear

What is the NIV? I favor the NIV


16 posted on 11/18/2011 11:13:52 PM PST by tommix2
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To: hiho hiho

Peter Mullen: THANK YOU!


17 posted on 11/18/2011 11:38:46 PM PST by John Leland 1789
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To: hiho hiho

I couldn’t get the article to come up at first and just read the entire article. Excellent. Many good examples of foolish translation.


18 posted on 11/18/2011 11:40:01 PM PST by tommix2
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To: hiho hiho

bookmark


19 posted on 11/18/2011 11:48:31 PM PST by GOP Poet (Obama is an OLYMPIC failure.)
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To: hiho hiho

Mullen needs to tip a pint and cool his fevered mind.


20 posted on 11/19/2011 12:10:59 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: hiho hiho

Bookmarked.


21 posted on 11/19/2011 12:29:53 AM PST by Inyo-Mono (My greatest fear is that when I'm gone my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them)
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To: tommix2

New International Version. A decent phrase by phrase translation.

I prefer the NASB, New American Standard Bible as a better word by word translation.

It helps to go back to original Greek and Hebrew word studies to avoid mixing our scarred modern day worldly thinking with the meanings being communicated in Scripture.

Ultimately, we simply want to study His Word.

Interestingly, there are some OT passages quoted in the NT in the Greek which were slightly mistranslated, but both are in Scripture, which reveals God the Holy Spirit is still able to use both to sanctify us as we understand His Word in our thinking.

Our real focus is to remain in fellowship with Him, and He does the communication in our human spirit to further sanctify our thinking in our souls.


22 posted on 11/19/2011 12:32:11 AM PST by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: hiho hiho

I grew up learning verses in the KJV. The poetic style is more appealing and easier to remember. I read the Amplified version for study purposes. I pray for guidance no matter what version I read. I’ve seen some awful versions with incredibly misleading interpretations.


23 posted on 11/19/2011 12:56:18 AM PST by skr (May God confound the enemy)
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Comment #24 Removed by Moderator

To: tommix2

http://www.biblica.com/niv/


25 posted on 11/19/2011 1:15:18 AM PST by AndyTheBear
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To: hiho hiho

It’s a rare Englishman today who’s genuinely proud of England, even more rare its culture.


26 posted on 11/19/2011 5:07:44 AM PST by Oratam
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To: hiho hiho

Excellent.

The King of English translations indeed!


27 posted on 11/19/2011 5:22:21 AM PST by TFMcGuire (Liberalism Is Hatred)
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To: hiho hiho

So true. And it’s no accident that the KJV is being thrown aside. Satan has been doing that to The Word Of God since Eden.

The lie in the assertion that modern versions are more readable is the implication that the King James Bible is less readable. That just isn’t true. Linguistic tests have been conducted on both versions and people had more understanding of the King James Version and were better able to memorize passages from it.


28 posted on 11/19/2011 6:19:08 AM PST by RoadTest (For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.)
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To: hiho hiho

Just as ridiculous as the coined “If the King James Version was good enough for the Apostle Paul, it’s good enough for me.”

Like Harley Davidson and their push rod engines.


29 posted on 11/19/2011 6:20:49 AM PST by Blue Collar Christian (Let's roll on this gunwalking thing already! NRA <BCC><)
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To: TFMcGuire

‘TrinitarianBibleSociety’ is an oxymoron. there is no Trinity in the Bible. it’s not there. It is a syncretic fabrication...an attempt to explain a sublime Mystery to unlearned pagan converts; a part of the great drift away from Torah as the message moved further into The Roman-Hellenic milieu. As God told Abraham, “Go, Go for yourself!” Return to Torah; You’ll be glad you did.


30 posted on 11/19/2011 6:31:33 AM PST by Torahman (Remember the Maccabees!)
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To: AndyTheBear

“I presume the author is aware the bible was originally in Hebrew, Greek, with a little in Aramaic....but the tone of his article implies he thought it written in the Kings English (or Latin at least).”

Just because you disagree with someone does not mean they are ignorant.

Dr. Peter Mullen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Mullen


31 posted on 11/19/2011 6:46:58 AM PST by hiho hiho
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To: preacher

Pleas don’t call them “Old English”. They are all early modern English terms. This is the Old English Bible: http://wordhord.org/nasb/


32 posted on 11/19/2011 6:47:56 AM PST by vladimir998 (Public school grads are often too dumb to realize they're dumb)
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To: Torahman

“‘TrinitarianBibleSociety’ is an oxymoron. there is no Trinity in the Bible. it’s not there. It is a syncretic fabrication...an attempt to explain a sublime Mystery to unlearned pagan converts; a part of the great drift away from Torah as the message moved further into The Roman-Hellenic milieu. As God told Abraham, “Go, Go for yourself!” Return to Torah; You’ll be glad you did.”

Silly man!

You are educated beyond your intelligence.

“Except ye believe that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.” (Jn 8:24).


33 posted on 11/19/2011 6:49:25 AM PST by TFMcGuire (Liberalism Is Hatred)
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To: Blue Collar Christian

“Just as ridiculous as the coined “If the King James Version was good enough for the Apostle Paul, it’s good enough for me.”

Those are words we Biblicists use to poke fun at ourselves.

the Irony is lost on those who hate the AV (KJV).


34 posted on 11/19/2011 6:53:51 AM PST by TFMcGuire (Liberalism Is Hatred)
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To: RoadTest

Your words are very true, Sir.


35 posted on 11/19/2011 6:56:01 AM PST by TFMcGuire (Liberalism Is Hatred)
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To: roamer_1

Very true!


36 posted on 11/19/2011 6:57:44 AM PST by TFMcGuire (Liberalism Is Hatred)
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To: tommix2

the chapters and verses were set 300 years before the KJV Bible was translated by an English Catholic Archbishop, Stephen Langton.


37 posted on 11/19/2011 8:12:46 AM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: hiho hiho

It should be noted that the KJV is essentially the 4th Edition of the Tyndale Bible. Over 85% of the KJV is taken verbatim from John Tyndale’s translation.


38 posted on 11/19/2011 8:25:06 AM PST by circlecity
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To: hiho hiho

These links are great. Just tweeted them.


39 posted on 11/19/2011 8:35:49 AM PST by NEWwoman (God Bless America)
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To: hiho hiho

While a majestic work worth great respect, it loses it’s relevance to an audience suffering a multiple-century language gap. To use a more accessible work to expose Scripture to children hardly constitutes “child abuse”. To condemn the translation’s deprication is to condemn the translation itself, as the KJV is but a poor translation of the original rendering as God saw fit.


40 posted on 11/19/2011 9:54:32 AM PST by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com/)
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To: hiho hiho
The KJV is suppressed?

Who would know? It's not the complete Bible!!!!!!

Bible


"We are compelled to concede to the Papists
that they have the Word of God,
that we received it from them,
and that without them
we should have no knowledge of it at all."

~ Martin Luther



St. Jerome and the Vulgate (completing the FIRST Bible in the year 404) [Catholic Caucus]
In Bible Times
Deuterocanonical References in the New Testament

Translations Before the King James: - The KJV Translators Speak!
EWTN Live - March 23 - A Journey Through the Bible
"Our Father's Plan" - EWTN series with Dr. Scott Hahn and Jeff Cavins on the Bible timeline
The Daunting Journey From Faith to Faith [Anglicanism to Catholicism]
Reflections on the Soon to Be Released New American Bible (Revised Edition)[Catholic Caucus]
New American Bible changes some words such as "holocaust"
Is the Bible the Only Revelation from God? (Catholic / Orthodox Caucus)
History of the Bible (caution: long)
Catholic and Protestant Bibles
THE CATHOLIC CHURCH: ON READING THE BIBLE [Catholic Caucus]

Because I Love the Bible
Where Is That Taught in the Bible?
When Was the Bible Really Written?
Three Reasons for Teaching the Bible [St. Thomas Aquinas]
The Smiting Is Still Implied (God of the OT vs the NT)
Where Is That Taught in the Bible?
Friday Fast Fact: The Bible in English
Bible Reading is Central in Conversions to Catholicism in Shangai, Reports Organization
Verses (in Scripture) I Never Saw
5 Myths about 7 Books

Lectionary Statistics - How much of the Bible is included in the Lectionary for Mass? (Popquiz!)
Pope calls Catholics to daily meditation on the Bible
What Are the "Apocrypha?"
The Accuracy of Scripture
US Conference of Catholic Bishops recommendations for Bible study
CNA unveils resource to help Catholics understand the Scriptures
The Dos and Don’ts of Reading the Bible [Ecumenical]
Pope to lead marathon Bible reading on Italian TV
The Complete Bible: Why Catholics Have Seven More Books [Ecumenical]
Beginning Catholic: Books of the Catholic Bible: The Complete Scriptures [Ecumenical]

Beginning Catholic: When Was The Bible Written? [Ecumenical]
The Complete Bible: Why Catholics Have Seven More Books [Ecumenical]
U.S. among most Bible-literate nations: poll
Bible Lovers Not Defined by Denomination, Politics
Dei Verbum (Catholics and the Bible)
Vatican Offers Rich Online Source of Bible Commentary
Clergy Congregation Takes Bible Online
Knowing Mary Through the Bible: Mary's Last Words
A Bible Teaser For You... (for everyone :-)
Knowing Mary Through the Bible: New Wine, New Eve

Return of Devil's Bible to Prague draws crowds
Doctrinal Concordance of the Bible [What Catholics Believe from the Bible] Catholic Caucus
Should We Take the Bible Literally or Figuratively?
Glimpsing Words, Practices, or Beliefs Unique to Catholicism [Bible Trivia]
Catholic and Protestant Bibles: What is the Difference?
Church and the Bible(Caatholic Caucus)
Pope Urges Prayerful Reading of Bible
Catholic Caucus: It's the Church's Bible
How Tradition Gave Us the Bible
The Church or the Bible

41 posted on 11/19/2011 9:56:22 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: AndyTheBear
You don't suppose that the editors of one of Great Britain's great newspapers are familiar with the provenance of the King James translation?
42 posted on 11/19/2011 10:04:15 AM PST by Mr. Lucky
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To: vladimir998

Evidently they have never heard that the ORIGINAL Bible was translated in Latin and all the English translation should adhere to the Latin.

Boy, would that be a change! LOL!


43 posted on 11/19/2011 10:25:06 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: TFMcGuire

**If the King James Version was good enough for the Apostle Paul**

Huh?

Paul read in Latin and Greek — not English!


44 posted on 11/19/2011 10:26:02 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

Actually the ‘original’ Bible, the Torah, was translated into Greek. Later, when the New Testament was combined with the Torah by Christians, the texts were translated into Latin. That did mkae for a few interesting ‘transpositions’ too.


45 posted on 11/19/2011 10:29:20 AM PST by MHGinTN (Some, believing they cannot be deceived, it's impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: hiho hiho

The King James Bible is the only Bible I use. Its the only one I trust.


46 posted on 11/19/2011 10:44:10 AM PST by ColdSteelTalon (Light is fading to shadow, and casting its shroud over all we have known...)
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To: Salvation

Lets keep in mind the Catholic church resisted attempts to put the Bible in the common man’s hands.


47 posted on 11/19/2011 10:47:15 AM PST by ColdSteelTalon (Light is fading to shadow, and casting its shroud over all we have known...)
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To: ColdSteelTalon

They never resisited that. Bibles in the ancient days were copied (tediously) by hand and were very rare.

What was the first Bible printed by the Guttenberg printing press?

Do you know the answer? Or do you not care?


48 posted on 11/19/2011 10:59:35 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: ColdSteelTalon
Surprise! The first Bible printed by Gutenberg was the CATHOLIC Bible! LOL!

Relationship to earlier Bibles


In appearance the Gutenberg Bible closely resembles the large manuscript
Illuminated manuscript
An illuminated manuscript is a manuscript in which the text is supplemented by the addition of decoration, such as decorated initials, borders and miniature illustrations...

 Bibles that were being produced at the time. The Giant Bible of Mainz
Giant Bible of Mainz
The Giant Bible of Mainz is a very large manuscript Bible produced in 1452-3, probably in Mainz or nearby. It is notable for its beauty, for being one of the last manuscript Bibles written before the invention of printing in the West, and for its possible connections with the Gutenberg...

, probably produced in Mainz in 1452-3, has been suggested as the particular model Gutenberg used. Around this time large Bibles, designed to be read from a lectern, were returning to popularity for the first time since the twelfth century. In the intervening period, small hand-held Bibles had been usual. The text of the Gutenberg Bible is traditional, falling within the Paris Vulgate group of texts. Manuscript Bibles all had texts that differed slightly, and the copy used by Gutenberg as the exemplar for his Bible has not been discovered.
 

Influence on later Bibles


The Gutenberg Bible had an incalculable effect on the history of the printed book. Textually, it also had an influence on future editions of the Bible. It provided the model for the 36 Line Bible, while a Strasbourg edition of the Bible from 1470 is known to have been set from the copy now in Cambridge University Library. The Gutenberg Bible also had an influence on the Clementine
Pope Clement VIII
Pope Clement VIII , born Ippolito Aldobrandini, was Pope from 30 January 1592 to 3 March 1605.-Cardinal:...

 edition of the Vulgate commissioned by the Papacy in the late sixteenth century.

49 posted on 11/19/2011 11:16:20 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: ColdSteelTalon

But it is incomplete — how can you trust it?


50 posted on 11/19/2011 11:18:24 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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