Posted on 11/25/2011 6:55:10 AM PST by marshmallow
Tens of thousands wait for hours in freezing temperatures to kiss belt that Christians believe was worn by Jesus' mother
MOSCOW — Braving freezing cold temperatures and ice-covered sidewalks, tens of thousands of Russians stood in line Wednesday to see and kiss a newly arrived relic of the Virgin Mary in Russia's largest Orthodox cathedral.
The Virgin Mary's Cincture, a belt that Christians believe was worn by Jesus' mother, was brought to Russia last month from Mount Athos, a monastic community in Greece.
Kissing the relic, which is encased in an ornamental box, is believed to help barren women conceive and heal other ailments.
The line of people, mostly women, waiting to enter the golden-domed Christ the Savior Cathedral stretched for 2.5 miles (4 kilometers) along the Moscow River despite temperatures that dropped to below minus 5 Celsius (23 Fahrenheit).
(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...
***Matt. 18:17: “And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto THE CHURCH; but if he neglect to hear THE CHURCH let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.” ****
Jesus is preparing them for when He has left them. That is what He was doing for three years.
The Church was born on the day of Pentecost when the Apostles and the others received strength and courage from the Holy Spirit and the mission and work for which Jesus called them and trained them began.
Funny, I have the opposite opinion. You don’t understand Paul at all. It’s that simple. What is the mystery he speaks of? Actually there are two. Take your pick.
That might wash if Jesus said the keys to the Word of God, but He didn’t, did He? No, He said, “I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven.”
Jesus spoke often of the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven. Matthew uses Kingdom of Heaven, Luke uses Kingdom of God so it would seem they are the same thing.
First Jesus tells all the Apostles, then He singles out Peter later when He explains why He has changed Simon’s name to “rock”.
Scripture holds the words of God which are the keys to the Kingdom.
She attracts them even as they claim to be repelled by the accolades Catholics acknowledge are hers as the woman God chose as His mother.
Where does Scripture call itself the keys to the kingdom?
May God bless you and keep you.
Thanks for playing:)
The only mystery to me is how some come to the conclusions they reach when reading Paul.
Paul liked to use the word didn’t he?
But, that we will no agree on what is means is no mystery.
In Luke we see the “key of knowledge” is scripture.
Luke 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.
In 2 Thessalonians we see that if they don’t obey the “word” they can be “locked out” of the church.
2 Thessalonians 3:14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
The Apostles, not just Peter, were given the “keys of knowledge” which would be what people needed to be saved.
Then in Matthew Jesus told them that He had given them the “keys of heaven” which was the “key of knowledge” and told them that if someone didn’t obey they should “have no company with them” or not allow them to associate with Christians.
Matthew:16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Find one positive word in scripture about speaking to those who have died other than Christ.
I don't know because the Billy Graham stuff is not all one denomination but rather many churches and denominations working together.
This event is basically Catholic. The difference in holiness within the local Catholic churches ought to be easier to document.
Thank you for the encouragement.
I actually learn a lot from posting here and it is a blessing to be able to so quickly look things up and read about the theology behind so many differing beliefs.
I always pray for guidance before I write. If others learn from it, then it is worth the time spent.
I am grateful for all here, especially my fellow Catholic FReepers. It truly is a labor of love for us.
He liked to use the word “mystery” because the “mysteries” were given to him to give to us by direct revelations of the risen Christ. He could not be clearer in what he meant. The only way to miss it is because a person chooses NOT to see it.
Yes, the irony is they eschew the infallibility of the Church while certain of their own.
It has ever been thus and will ever be so.
We do what we can.
>>>>>Why is it that Catholics are not allowed to disagree with each other?
Because that would show the untruth of the harpies’ insistance that we all must think alike or the priests will send us to hell.
****Luke 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.****
You will have to explain your understanding of that passage more fully because nowhere in it do I see where Jesus says that Scripture is the key to the kingdom.
****2 Thessalonians 3:14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.*****
Excommunication from the Church. Which again does not say that the Scriptures are the keys to the kingdom.
****The Apostles, not just Peter, were given the “keys of knowledge” which would be what people needed to be saved.****
Scripture says they were given the keys to the kingdom of heaven, not knowledge. And no one has said that Peter served as a dictator, he was the leader as the rock, not the tyrant.
I would like you to present from Scripture where the key of knowledge is equated to the keys to the kingdom and where it is said that Scripture is the key to the kingdom.
Otherwise, what you have done is read into what you have posted an implicit understanding of what is not explicit in Scripture.
I do not disagree that Paul did indeed have the “mystery” revealed to him by Jesus. What I disagree with is that Paul is the only one to have received this revelation.
The revelation and the gospel that Paul received was the same as that of the others. Paul emphasizes that he received them straight from the risen Christ, not because he was given a different revelation, but because he had to prove that he was given the same revelation as the others. It was about the authenticity of himself as a preacher of the good news.
1 Corinthians 2:7 No, WE declare God’s wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for OUR glory before time began. 8 None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
Did Paul have a mouse in his pocket?
Paul taught in accordance with Peter and the others, he sought their approval and imprimatur.
In Gal. 2:2-9 we read that when Paul went up to the leaders at Jerusalem to communicate to them "THAT GOSPEL which I preach among the Gentiles, (v.2), they "saw" (V. 7), and "perceived" (v.9) that God had indeed entrusted a new revelation to him, and solemnly, publicly, officially, gave him "the right hand of fellowship" (v.9), acknowledging him as God's new apostle to the nations and agreeing to confine their own ministry henceforth to Israel.
"And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived THE GRACE THAT WAS GIVEN TO ME..."(v.9). They didn't teach him anything. He taught them the gospel he was preaching: the gospel of the grace of God.
Once again, it PLAINLY says what it says.
Here is the main passage I believe Christ showed me in prayer years ago on that it is proper and not a fluke. I at one time did not believe it either but through prayer and travail the Good Lord directed me to these scripture verses. Then after these verses are catholic scripture answers from a site(Scripture Catholic).
Zechariah Chapter 3
7 Thus saith Jehovah of hosts: If thou wilt walk in my ways, and if thou wilt keep my charge, then thou also shalt judge my house, and shalt also keep my courts, and I will give thee a place of access among these that stand by.
Parallel
RSV 7: "Thus says the LORD of hosts: If you will walk in my ways and keep my charge, then you shall rule my house and have charge of my courts, and I will give you the right of access among those who are standing here.
NRSV 7 `Thus says the LORD of hosts: If you will walk in my ways and keep my requirements, then you shall rule my house and have charge of my courts, and I will give you the right of access among those who are standing here.
Douay 7 Thus saith the Lord of hosts: If thou wilt walk in my ways, and Beep my charge, thou also shalt judge my house, and shalt keep my courts, and I will give thee some of them that are now present here to walk with thee.
NAB 7 "Thus says the LORD of hosts: If you walk in my ways and heed my charge, you shall judge my house and keep my courts, and I will give you access among these standing here.
KJV 7 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; If thou wilt walk in my ways, and if thou wilt keep my charge, then thou shalt also judge my house, and shalt also keep my courts, and I will give thee places to walk among these that stand by.
WEB 7 "Thus says Yahweh of Armies: 'If you will walk in my ways, and if you will keep my charge, then you also shall judge my house, and shall also keep my courts, and I will give you a place of access among these who stand by.
ESV 7 "Thus says the LORD of hosts: If you will walk in my ways and keep my charge, then you shall rule my house and have charge of my courts, and I will give you the right of access among those who are standing here.
NASB 7 "Thus says the LORD of hosts, 'If you will walk in My ways and if you will perform My service, then you will also govern My house and also have charge of My courts, and I will grant you free access among these who are standing here. The Branch
NIV 7 "This is what the LORD Almighty says: `If you will walk in my ways and keep my requirements, then you will govern my house and have charge of my courts, and I will give you a place among these standing here.
YOUNG 7 `Thus said Jehovah of Hosts: If in My ways thou dost walk, And if My charge thou dost keep, Then also thou dost judge My house, And also thou dost keep My courts, And I have given to thee conductors among these standing by.
NOTICE THIS ONE IS YOUNG"S LITERAL TRANSLATION-One of the closet to the original language translation. I believe Conductors includes prayers in the house of the Lord. The access is to others in heaven. Of course they way God sees it.
Greek 7: tade <3592> {THUS} legei <3004> {SAYS} kurioV <5rain> pantokratwr <3841> {ALMIGHTY} ean <1437> {IF} en <1722> {IN} taiV <3588> {THE} odoiV <3598> {WAYS} mou <1473> {MY} poreuh <4198> {DO YOU GO} kai <2532> {AND} ean <1437> {IF} ta <3588> {THE} prostagmata <4366> {ORDERS} mou <1473> {MY} fulaxhV <5442> {YOU SHOULD GUARD} kai <2532> {AND} su <1473> {ARE YOU} diakrineiV <1252> {SHALL LITIGATE} ton <3588> {THE} oikon <3624> {HOUSE} mou <1473> {MY} kai <2532> {AND} ean <1437> {IF} diafulaxhV kai <2532> {AND} ge <1065> {INDEED} thn <3588> {THE} aulhn <833> {A COURTYARD} mou <1473> {MY} kai <2532> {AND} dwsw <1325> {I WILL GIVE} soi <1473> {TO YOU} anastrefomenouV <390> {ONES PACING} en <1722> {IN} mesw <3319> {THE MIDST} twn <3588> {OF THE} esthkotwn <2476> {STANDING} toutwn <3778> {THESE}
Vulgate 7 haec dicit Dominus exercituum si in viis meis ambulaveris et custodiam meam custodieris tu quoque iudicabis domum meam et custodies atria mea et dabo tibi ambulantes de his qui nunc hic adsistunt
ASV 7 Thus saith Jehovah of hosts: If thou wilt walk in my ways, and if thou wilt keep my charge, then thou also shalt judge my house, and shalt also keep my courts, and I will give thee a place of access among these that stand by.
Darby 7Thus saith Jehovah of hosts: If thou wilt walk in my ways, and if thou wilt keep my charge, then thou shalt also judge my house, and shalt also keep my courts; and I will give thee a place to walk among these that stand by.
NKJV 7 "Thus says the Lord of hosts: 'If you will walk in My ways, And if you will keep My command, Then you shall also judge My house, And likewise have charge of My courts; I will give you places to walk Among these who stand here.
Other Related Passages
Deuteronomy 17 9: and coming to the Levitical priests, and to the judge who is in office in those days, you shall consult them, and they shall declare to you the decision.
Deuteronomy 17 12: The man who acts presumptuously, by not obeying the priest who stands to minister there before the LORD your God, or the judge, that man shall die; so you shall purge the evil from Israel.
1 Kings 3 14: And if you will walk in my ways, keeping my statutes and my commandments, as your father David walked, then I will lengthen your days."
Isaiah 62 9: but those who garner it shall eat it and praise the LORD, and those who gather it shall drink it in the courts of my sanctuary."
Scripture
I. We are One Family in Christ in Heaven and on Earth
Eph. 3:14-15- we are all one family ("Catholic") in heaven and on earth, united together, as children of the Father, through Jesus Christ. Our brothers and sisters who have gone to heaven before us are not a different family. We are one and the same family. This is why, in the Apostles Creed, we profess a belief in the "communion of saints." There cannot be a "communion" if there is no union. Loving beings, whether on earth or in heaven, are concerned for other beings, and this concern is reflected spiritually through prayers for one another.
Eph. 1:22-23; 5:23-32; Col. 1:18,24 - this family is in Jesus Christ, the head of the body, which is the Church.
1 Cor. 12:12,27; Rom. 12:5; Col. 3:15; Eph. 4:4 - we are the members of the one body of Christ, supernaturally linked together by our partaking of the Eucharist.
Rom. 8:35-39 - therefore, death does not separate the family of God and the love of Christ. We are still united with each other, even beyond death.
Matt. 17:3; Mark 9:4; Luke 9:30 - Jesus converses with "deceased" Moses and Elijah. They are more alive than the saints on earth.
Matt. 22:32; Mark 12:27; Luke 20:38 - God is the God of the living not the dead. The living on earth and in heaven are one family.
Luke 15:7,10 – if the angels and saints experience joy in heaven over our repentance, then they are still connected to us and are aware of our behavior.
John 15:1-6 - Jesus is the vine and we are the branches. The good branches are not cut off at death. They are alive in heaven.
1 Cor. 4:9 – because we can become a spectacle not only to men, but to angels as well, this indicates that angels are aware of our earthly activity. Those in heaven are connected to those on earth.
1 Cor. 12:26 - when one member suffers, all suffer. When one is honored, all rejoice. We are in this together as one family.
1 Cor 13:12; 1 John 3:2 - now we see in a mirror dimly, but in heaven we see face to face. The saints are more alive than we are!
Heb. 12:1: we are surrounded by a great glory cloud (shekinah) of witnesses. The “cloud of witnesses” refers to the saints who are not only watching us from above but cheering us on in our race to heaven.
1 Peter 2:9; Rev. 20:6 - we are a royal family of priests by virtue of baptism. We as priests intercede on behalf of each other.
2 Peter 1:4 - since God is the eternal family and we are His children, we are partakers of His divine nature as a united family.
1 Cor. 1:2; Rom. 1:7 - we are called to be saints. Saints refer to both those on earth and in heaven who are in Christ. Proof:
Acts 9:13,32,41; 26:10; 1 Cor. 6:1-2; 14:33; 2 Cor. 1:1; 8:4; 9:1-2; 13:13; Rom. 8:27; 12:23; 15:25,26, 31; 16:2,15; Eph. 1:1,15,18; 3:8; 5:3; 6:18; Phil. 1:1; 4:22; Col 1:2,4,26; 1 Tm 5:10; Philemon 1:5,7; Heb. 6:10; 13:24; Jude 1:3; Rev. 11:18; 13:7; 14:12; 16:6; 17:6;18:20,24; Rev 19:8; 20:9 - in these verses, we see that Christians still living on earth are called "saints."
Matt. 27:52; Eph. 2:19; 3:18; Col. 1:12; 2 Thess. 1:10; Rev. 5:8; 8:3-4; 11:18; 13:10 - in these verses, we also see that "saints" also refer to those in heaven who united with us.
Dan. 4:13,23; 8:23 – we also see that the angels in heaven are also called “saints.” The same Hebrew word “qaddiysh” (holy one) is applied to both humans and angels in heaven. Hence, there are angel saints in heaven and human saints in heaven and on earth. Loving beings (whether angels or saints) are concerned for other beings, and prayer is the spiritual way of expressing that love.
This is Russian, btw. Hit on the Orthodox/Eastern rites. But you are avoiding the point, which is the efficacy of the means. No one believes in honoring Mary is not a believer in Jesus, unless he/she is a Muslim. Presumably, no one who answers Graham call is not a believer. The The evangelist can only cast the seeds. The ground it lands on is beyond his country. And we believe this is the role that Marty has been playing, which is a messenger to an unbelieving world. Rather, Our Lord has chosen to send a messenger who is taken to be Mary, and her message is all, at bottom, Repent. I am thinking of the apparition at LaSalette, now, where childen encounter a weaping woman, who cries for our sakes and warns the children of dire events soon to come, that the hand of her son is about to strike. I am thinking now,also of the image of the Last Judgement in the Sistine Chapel. There we see no gentle and kind shepard, but the Christ of the Apocalypse, and his role as the ruler of the world.
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