Skip to comments.In the Spirit: Can a Catholic also be a liberal?
Posted on 11/29/2011 4:33:50 AM PST by jacknhoo
To certain Catholics, Peter Kreeft is a rock star.
That was evident Nov. 18, when nearly 500 people filled an auditorium at the Bishop O'Connor Center in Madison to hear him talk.
Kreeft, a Catholic author and Boston College philosophy professor, had been asked by the Catholic Diocese of Madison to speak on whether "a Catholic can be a liberal." Kreeft called it "a very challenging question" and said he'd never spoken on it before.
Kreeft is a strong defender of the Catholic Church against what some people call "modernists" or, more derisively, "cafeteria Catholics," people who pick and choose which church teachings to follow.
There is no middle ground to Kreeft. It would be silly and redundant to him, for instance, to call someone a "pro-life Catholic." You cannot be anything but against abortion to be a Catholic, Kreeft said.
"To be a Catholic is to take the whole deal," he told the crowd.
Kreeft said several definitions of a liberal can and should fit Catholics, including "someone who is generous and unselfish" and "someone who highly values liberty and freedom."
On abortion, Kreeft contended Catholics are the "true liberals," because a liberal wants to extend liberty to the oppressed, and "the unborn are the most oppressed," he said.
Yet, in the political realm, the term liberal has been hijacked by abortion rights activists, Kreeft said. "A Catholic cannot be today what is called a liberal about abortion. That's obvious. That's a duh.'"
Kreeft mentioned other issues, such as homosexual marriage and euthanasia, that he said Catholics cannot take politically liberal positions on, yet he focused most on abortion. Coming in for the most criticism were elected officials who call themselves Catholic yet support abortion rights.
During the Q&A, an audience member brought up the Kennedy political dynasty and how a group of leading theologians and Catholic college professors had met with Kennedy family members in the mid-1960s and came up with a way for Catholic politicians to support a pro-abortion rights platform with clear consciences.
Kreeft said these Catholic advisers "told the Kennedys how they could get away with murder." Kreeft then made one of his boldest comments of the evening, suggesting the theologians who first convinced Democratic politicians they could support abortion rights and remain Catholic did more damage to the Catholic Church than pedophile priests.
"These were wicked people. These were dishonest people. These were people who, frankly, loved power more than they loved God," Kreeft said. "Sorry, that's just the way it is. In fact, I'd say these were even worse than the child molesters though the immediate damage they did was not as obvious because they did it deliberately, it wasn't a sin of weakness. Sins of power are worse than sins of weakness. Cold, calculating sins that's straight from the devil."
A few minutes later, the talk over, the crowd gave him a standing ovation.
Second, Kudos to Kreeft.
Canon Law: Anyone having an abortion or knowingly participating in an abortion is automatically excommunication.
Can. 1398 A person who actually procures an abortion incurs a latae sententiae excommunication.
Can. 1329 §2 In the case of a latae sententiae penalty attached to an offense, accomplices, even though not mentioned in the law or precept, incur the same penalty if, without their assistance, the crime would not have been committed, and if the penalty is of such a nature as to be able to affect them; otherwise, they can be punished with ferendae sententiae penalties.
Exceptions exist (Canons 1322-1325, 1328).
If congregations are taught correctly, from the pulpit or in writings of the bishop, a Catholic's ignorance would not be an excuse.
A bishop is bound to instruct his people on matters of faith and morals.
To vote for anyone who is pro abortion (this includes pro-choice...no splitting hairs) is a mortal sin, an excommunicatable offense.
To give Holy Communion to a person knowing that he or she is in a state of mortal sin subjects the Eucharistic minister, whether they be a priest or not, to latae sententiae excommunication for desecration of the Holy Eucharist.
Regarding this desecration:
Can. 1367 One who throws away the consecrated species or, for a sacrilegious purpose, takes them away or keeps them, incurs a latae sententiae excommunication reserved to the Apostolic See; a cleric, moreover, may be punished with some other penalty, not excluding dismissal from the clerical state (too bad so many Bishops, priests, deacons, etc, let their light be dimmed).
Giving Jesus to a publicly known grave sinner is the cause of grave scandal (Just think of all the so-called Catholic politicians and those who voted for them and Obama...all excommunicated - a great loss).
According to Nacy Pelosi, Jesus was right? /s =.=
As a Catholic, I am firmly in the camp of NO ABORTIONS EVER. How can any Christian say that Jesus would support this mortal sin. He turned over tables at the temple. What would he have done or said at an abortion mill?
Liberals cant be true Catholics because so much of their ideology ie abortion and gay rights goes directly agaisnt Church teachings. Of course that doesn’t stop plenty of so called Catholics from voting Democrat or being liberal.
As far the political definitions no they can’t. They can claim to be, and they certainly do in great numbers, but the Catholic faith is very clear as far as homosexuality and abortion are concerned, something they choose to refuse to believe.
Churches in the UK for example are closing at an alarming rate because the idiots that run the church have watered it down.
The result, it just becomes a rather poor excuse for a church as it has abandoned everything the church was built upon.
I named one, besides, there are a host more alleged cafeteria catholics who do....especially at Notre Dame.... /s =.=
I can’t see how ANY Christian can even be democrat, much less liberal.
I am, of course, excluding the unitarians, THEY probably see that Jesus wants you to become an abortionist. </ 1/2 sarc>
To generalize this a bit....
To be a Catholic you must be a Christian. To be a Christian you MUST be a follower of Christ, that is, you must try your best to obey His commandments, to seek those things He desires and shun those things He disapproves of.
In all reality these days to be a liberal (democrat. The terms are interchangeable) you must be pro abportion, pro homosexual “rights”, anti family and anti religious liberty.
So we are faced with an unresolvable conflict. Democrats stand fro everything that Christ stands against. And democrats stand against everything that Christ stands for.
You cannot be a Christian and a democrat.
If someone claims they are a Christian and a democrat they are lying. So which one are they really? Christianity says “Thou shalt not lie”. Democrats say you can lie if you can get away with it (Reference clinton).
So obviously someone who states they are Christian and democrat is a democrat, a member of the party of liars and the child of the father of liars.
(And people sometimes wonder why I refuse to associate with democrats in any way)
Every single catholic Ive ever met or known was a liberal.just sayin,,
Gee, what a shame that you’ve not met the rest of us.
Well, we’ll have to meet someday and change that. That wouldn’t surprise me, 53% of Catholics voted for Obama. that’s a lot of people. He could never have won without the Catholic vote - no wonder God is so angry with this nation.
I submit that this isn't, or shoudn't be, "bold". It should be undeniable and obvious, for two reasons.
One, abortion is a more serious sin than molestation. Abortion's victims are dead, practically 100% of the time; that's the whole point of the "procedure". It's murder.
Two, justifying and defending a serious sin, and promoting it as a good, is always much more seriously sinful than merely committing it and knowing you're doing evil. The first (a) gives greater scandal; and (b) immunizes people against repentance.
Can a Catholic relentlessly indulge in and encourage jealousy, envy, covetousness, bitterness and theft? I guess I will have to leave that one to the theologians.
Many catholics I know are very class-warfare.
Before the "antis" wake up and jump on me, I should point out that I'm using "scandal" in the technical sense. A "scandal" (from the Gk word for "stumbling-block") is something that encourages or tempts innocent people to sin. It's more-or-less tautological that you can't scandalize more effectively than actually explicitly to try to convince people that a sin isn't really a sin.
As long as they don’t support pro-abort candidates!
Given the USCCB's support of illegal immigration, universal healthcare, and union organizing, and the Pope's support of their doing so, I think the better question to ask is "Can a Catholic also be a conservative?"
I'm with you. Democrats ( Marxists really) are either too evil or too stupid to be a friend. For me, it was the 2000 Florida recount. It was then that I realized that they were not people of good will.
Can you be Catholic and American?
From Matthew 22:36-38:
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said to him: You shall love the Lord your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind. 38 This is the greatest and the first commandment.
Note, worship of God is a greater commandment than “thou shalt not kill”.
Yet, in the US, there is freedom of religion. You can be one of those pagan wiccan types if you like here.
Do you expect your Catholic political leaders to change the constitution to enforce worship of God?
Should they be excommunicated if they support freedom of religion?
Every single Catholic I’ve ever met or known was a liberal, just saying...”
Hi! I’m momtothree. I’m Catholic and don’t have a liberal bone in my body. Good to meet you. If you would like, I could introduce you to some other FReeper Catholics who aren’t liberal as well.